Regarding: Hinata as the Byakugan Princess

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Some would consider Hinata being made a character with meaningful destiny in The Last movie to be something of a character-service. However, I've often found that there is logic and consistency behind many occurances in Naruto.

In terms of Hinata, there is at least a logical route to it.

Before I go there, it could indeed be 'prophetic', such that even if the author made it up for the movie, her character story still fits. It's somewhat like how Naruto and Sasuke being reincarnates may have been decided halfway through the story, but we already had been given Hashierama and Madara to build the idea upon. In the case of Hinata, its her life story. She started off as the in-verse Cinderella, being bullied by family but eventually chosen by the prince as the most beautiful. This is interesting because Kaguya could be similar. Not only is she the only female alien we have seen, but her attack on Isshiki and plan to create an army of Zetsu strongly suggests she never got along well with her own people. Then we add in that prophecy and reincarnation in the story usually work on a very wide bearing, not being very precise. For example, Hagaromo prophecied Naruto long before the debacle with his sons - which made it possible for reincarnarions to occur in the first place - happened, which implies the prophecy was somewhat a prediction and Naruto just so happened to fill the shoes. So in her case, Hinata would be similar in that she happened to fill the shoes of a Byakugan Princess.

So what about the logic and reasoning that explains why a specific character is the one who gets chosen as a reincarnate when others could've filled the shoe? In other words, what awakened the link? Well, it turns out something happened with Hinata . . Something unique!

Actually, it was two things. Firstly, she experiences the pain of being rejected/outcast from your own. If one works from the conclusion of her being a parallel to Kaguya, that makes things interesting because it would imply that Kaguya hated her clan because she was forced to marry Isshiki when she loved someone else, so she too was motivated by love just like Hinata was motivated by Naruto, but anyway . . . Secondly, and what really got things going, is that HINATA HAD TEN TAILS CHAKRA IN HER. It seems no one made anything of it, but in the 4th War, Hinata used Twin Lion Fists on TT Spawns. These would've had the TT chakra in them, so when Hinata absorbed it from them, she absorbed TT chakra into her. This chakra would've activated/awakened whatever ancient link there could be to Kaguya in her blood. Since Hinata is the only one shown absorbing this chakra, she is then put in a very unique position of being a candidate for being a spiritual reincarnate.

That said, I am quite displeased that nothing was made of this absorption in the immediate aftermath. Like, Hinata should've immediately unlocked some crazy chakra boost or something. Maybe that's just the fanboy in me, but I do feel it was under-utilised, that instance.

So basically, two things:
- Hinata absorbed TT chakra, making it logical/reasonable for her to have something related to the aliens. I would've hoped for immediate chakra powers, but it seems the author chose a reincarnation story line
- Applying story continuity logic (that is, the story is consistent in-verse), we can start with Kaguya being an outcast just like Hinata, to reverse engineer her story and theorise other parallels with Hinata, such as that the cause of the conflict was romantic.
 

Infant

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yo ifnant!!! someone make thread and say sunade solo kakozo..r u gona stay and do noting???..
I myself am not sure who wins that one, but I'll definitely give my 2cents
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can u give me short version??? i am in a rush........
So basically, two things:
- Hinata absorbed TT chakra, making it logical/reasonable for her to have something related to the aliens. I would've hoped for immediate chakra powers, but it seems the author chose a reincarnation story line
- Applying story continuity logic (that is, the story is consistent in-verse), we can start with Kaguya being an outcast just like Hinata, to reverse engineer her story and theorise other parallels with Hinata, such as that the cause of the conflict was romantic.
See the dangers of rushing? There is a difference between being fast and being hasty.
 
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wanderingcactus

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@wanderingcactus

My thoughts in why Hinata became the Byakugan Princess
Thought provoking, but before I go further about my thoughts on Hinata, I would like to address the parallel family first: Hagoromo's side.

I have heard many origin theories. One being that the Indra vs Asura and the Uchiha and Senju were disciple clans rather than direct blood descendants. Others were direct blood descendants, and a few mixed (Uchiha is directly related to Indra while the Senju is not related to Asura).
Certainly, Ninshu (sharing of chakra and connecting each person's power and soul and other things) make sense for the Senju to not having to be related to Asura. It is possible that they do not need to be direct descendants. This is why it was possible for Naruto, an Uzumaki to be a candidate of Asura.

However, there are also evidences that we can use to say which one is most likely to happen. Considering that the Uzumaki is blood related to the Senju, it means that the incarnates are most likely moving through blood relations.
Another is the power itself. From what we know now, there are many Sages of Paths that can transfer their will onto other beings to in some way revive. Momoshiki's, Isshiki's and Kaguya's Karma tech is one of them. Kaguya used hers on a white zetsu and it took over it and became Black Zetsu as we know it.

Hagoromo existed in his Tailed Beasts and Rinnegan. The same goes for Hamura existing on the moon. Since he is not a Yin, it is most likely that his will was attached into a physical thing like the tomb rather than chakra like Hagoromo's Tailed Beasts.

Since Indra and Asura have weaker power, they each develop their own way to reincarnate. This is through transmigration. They do not have a conscious will at this point but the actions or motivations will still be the same. It is to dictate what to do with humans.

Indra chose to rule the world through ninjutsu while Asura chose ninshu.

This is why there were reason to believe that Uchiha were directly related to Indra while Senju did not have to be blood related. However, his latest iteration came to be Uzumaki, being related to Senju by blood.

This solidifies the fact that the 2 requirements would need to be: blood related and the same time.

The Last movie answered the question of "what happened if the Yang (body) was the one that wanted to attain greater power instead of Yin (doujutsu)?"

It was a complete parallel. Instead of taking the body, you steal the eyes. Toneri's feats also heavily tied the Uzumaki to the Hamura's branch techniques as they are too similar.

These plentiful similarities warrant the idea that Hagoromo and Hamura are parallels. While there are certain difference, they are negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Even the main/branch family wars continued through generations with his side. The reasoning is also the same: "What to do with the humans?"

From what we know, Hagoromo and Hamura knew about their mother's plan of IT. They also knew her origins being alien and that she has a particular reason and fear to turn everyone into an army.

Someone who would unite people with her power and rule with grace and mercy suddenly turning malicious is known to possibly Indra and Asura and through parallels, Hamura's kids. So they stood by and watched over the decision made by Asura and Indra's descendants: make the world strong through ninjutsu or ninshu. Should they become weak, The Moon will be its safety net. This was the cause of the Moon Wars. Hamura and Hagoromo entrusting the world to their kids in which they have different things in mind.
With this in mind, certain similarities and certain differences. There are parallels and there are direct opposites. For one, we knew that based on the account of Toneri, the main family most likely ruled and chose ninshu while the branch chose ninjutsu.

We can verify this based on the fact that Hinata finding the tomb of the main family, they had a link to one another and they pool in their eyes into the Tenseigan Orb to further solidify the fact that they did not choose ninjutsu.

Another reason for this is Toneri's account of how the war went. The branch family stole the Tenseigan artifact and used it to wage war. Since Hamura's side is far different from Hagoromo (since Hagoromo is based from Yin, ninjutsu is most likely effective). Hamura would probably many who would be using taijutsu or kenjutsu or fuinjutsu as alternative to ninjutsu.

Regardless of what they choose, evidences provided by Toneri and certain flashbacks and events point out how extremely similar the 2 sides are (Hagoromo's and Hamura's)

So we can use the formula of having 2 outcomes when we take in Hagoromo's side and Hamura's side to fill in the blanks.
Whatever happened in Hagoromo's side is either exactly the same or the complete opposite.

Madara (Yin) getting Hashirama's body (Yang) to unlock Rinnegan.
Toneri (Yang) getting Hinabi's eyes (Yin) to unlock Tenseigan.
Uchiha (Yin) wipping out the rest of Senju (Yang) and only leaving one clan survivor: Sasuke.
"Uzumaki" (Yang) wipping out the rest of "Hyuga" (Yin) and only leaving one clan survivor: Toneri.

Putting all these similarities, differences, and the logic behind incarnates, we can connect the dots of how Hinata came to be Byakugan Princess.

  • Main family did not have a younger generation before dying out
  • Uchiha only had Sasuke and is already an incarnate
That in of itself is not enough to be a Byakugan Princess. It is a power given directly by Hamura as Hagoromo gave his power to Sasuke and Naruto. Naruto and Sasuke did not achieve Hagoromo level by themselves (they could have if they took each other's powers). It was rather bestowed on top.

In conclusion, Hinata possibly was a moon main family "incarnate" from the start. However, even if she was someone special, she is not Byakugan Princess until Hamura bestowed his power onto her. Perhaps being an "incarnate" made her a candidate to be able to be bestowed his powers.

Side note: even if she was a central character to The Last, she was still a crap character and not a valid power player as she was a female and Kishi has a thing for making female's only role is to be a damsel in distress.


EDIT: It is most likely that Toneri's family ruled and the byakugan were the lesser family (despite being the elder). It is most likely that Hamura entrusted the byakugan family and Toneri's family rebelled.

This is coming from the logic of parallels and whatever is different is opposite. Meaning Hagoromo entrusted his will to Asura, Hamura most likely did the opposite and entrusted the Byakugan kid.
The Tenseigan Orb may not have been stolen by Toneri's family as well but rather it was their to begin with and they were ruling the byakugan family rather than being the other way around.
 
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Thought provoking, but before I go further about my thoughts on Hinata, I would like to address the parallel family first: Hagoromo's side.

I have heard many origin theories. One being that the Indra vs Asura and the Uchiha and Senju were disciple clans rather than direct blood descendants. Others were direct blood descendants, and a few mixed (Uchiha is directly related to Indra while the Senju is not related to Asura).
Certainly, Ninshu (sharing of chakra and connecting each person's power and soul and other things) make sense for the Senju to not having to be related to Asura. It is possible that they do not need to be direct descendants. This is why it was possible for Naruto, an Uzumaki to be a candidate of Asura.

However, there are also evidences that we can use to say which one is most likely to happen. Considering that the Uzumaki is blood related to the Senju, it means that the incarnates are most likely moving through blood relations.
Another is the power itself. From what we know now, there are many Sages of Paths that can transfer their will onto other beings to in some way revive. Momoshiki's, Isshiki's and Kaguya's Karma tech is one of them. Kaguya used hers on a white zetsu and it took over it and became Black Zetsu as we know it.

Hagoromo existed in his Tailed Beasts and Rinnegan. The same goes for Hamura existing on the moon. Since he is not a Yin, it is most likely that his will was attached into a physical thing like the tomb rather than chakra like Hagoromo's Tailed Beasts.

Since Indra and Asura have weaker power, they each develop their own way to reincarnate. This is through transmigration. They do not have a conscious will at this point but the actions or motivations will still be the same. It is to dictate what to do with humans.

Indra chose to rule the world through ninjutsu while Asura chose ninshu.

This is why there were reason to believe that Uchiha were directly related to Indra while Senju did not have to be blood related. However, his latest iteration came to be Uzumaki, being related to Senju by blood.

This solidifies the fact that the 2 requirements would need to be: blood related and the same time.

The Last movie answered the question of "what happened if the Yang (body) was the one that wanted to attain greater power instead of Yin (doujutsu)?"

It was a complete parallel. Instead of taking the body, you steal the eyes. Toneri's feats also heavily tied the Uzumaki to the Hamura's branch techniques as they are too similar.

These plentiful similarities warrant the idea that Hagoromo and Hamura are parallels. While there are certain difference, they are negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Even the main/branch family wars continued through generations with his side. The reasoning is also the same: "What to do with the humans?"

From what we know, Hagoromo and Hamura knew about their mother's plan of IT. They also knew her origins being alien and that she has a particular reason and fear to turn everyone into an army.

Someone who would unite people with her power and rule with grace and mercy suddenly turning malicious is known to possibly Indra and Asura and through parallels, Hamura's kids. So they stood by and watched over the decision made by Asura and Indra's descendants: make the world strong through ninjutsu or ninshu. Should they become weak, The Moon will be its safety net. This was the cause of the Moon Wars. Hamura and Hagoromo entrusting the world to their kids in which they have different things in mind.
With this in mind, certain similarities and certain differences. There are parallels and there are direct opposites. For one, we knew that based on the account of Toneri, the main family most likely ruled and chose ninshu while the branch chose ninjutsu.

We can verify this based on the fact that Hinata finding the tomb of the main family, they had a link to one another and they pool in their eyes into the Tenseigan Orb to further solidify the fact that they did not choose ninjutsu.

Another reason for this is Toneri's account of how the war went. The branch family stole the Tenseigan artifact and used it to wage war. Since Hamura's side is far different from Hagoromo (since Hagoromo is based from Yin, ninjutsu is most likely effective). Hamura would probably many who would be using taijutsu or kenjutsu or fuinjutsu as alternative to ninjutsu.

Regardless of what they choose, evidences provided by Toneri and certain flashbacks and events point out how extremely similar the 2 sides are (Hagoromo's and Hamura's)

So we can use the formula of having 2 outcomes when we take in Hagoromo's side and Hamura's side to fill in the blanks.
Whatever happened in Hagoromo's side is either exactly the same or the complete opposite.

Madara (Yin) getting Hashirama's body (Yang) to unlock Rinnegan.
Toneri (Yang) getting Hinabi's eyes (Yin) to unlock Tenseigan.
Uchiha (Yin) wipping out the rest of Senju (Yang) and only leaving one clan survivor: Sasuke.
"Uzumaki" (Yang) wipping out the rest of "Hyuga" (Yin) and only leaving one clan survivor: Toneri.

Putting all these similarities, differences, and the logic behind incarnates, we can connect the dots of how Hinata came to be Byakugan Princess.

  • Main family did not have a younger generation before dying out
  • Uchiha only had Sasuke and is already an incarnate
That in of itself is not enough to be a Byakugan Princess. It is a power given directly by Hamura as Hagoromo gave his power to Sasuke and Naruto. Naruto and Sasuke did not achieve Hagoromo level by themselves (they could have if they took each other's powers). It was rather bestowed on top.

In conclusion, Hinata possibly was a moon main family "incarnate" from the start. However, even if she was someone special, she is not Byakugan Princess until Hamura bestowed his power onto her. Perhaps being an "incarnate" made her a candidate to be able to be bestowed his powers.

Side note: even if she was a central character to The Last, she was still a crap character and not a valid power player as she was a female and Kishi has a thing for making female's only role is to be a damsel in distress.


EDIT: It is most likely that Toneri's family ruled and the byakugan were the lesser family (despite being the elder). It is most likely that Hamura entrusted the byakugan family and Toneri's family rebelled.

This is coming from the logic of parallels and whatever is different is opposite. Meaning Hagoromo entrusted his will to Asura, Hamura most likely did the opposite and entrusted the Byakugan kid.
The Tenseigan Orb may not have been stolen by Toneri's family as well but rather it was their to begin with and they were ruling the byakugan family rather than being the other way around.
The logic of parallels works in a predertemination setting, where everythingy is part of destiny

So because the fight between Indra and Ashura was coincidental (Hagaromo could have chosen Indra), based on personalities and such, doesn't it make true parallels unlikely. Such that the families just so happen to follow similar paths, but not by destiny?
 

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So because the fight between Indra and Ashura was coincidental (Hagaromo could have chosen Indra), based on personalities and such, doesn't it make true parallels unlikely.
We won't know that for sure. Kishi really had a bad structure in writing so we can only go on whatever is plausible to happen based on presented evidence.

But let us say that that is the case, if Indra and Ashura were to not fight (whether or not the fight was caused on who inherits Earth), then Hamura's side would also be free from conflict.
You can say that they are destined to reflect each other.

doesn't it make true parallels unlikely
Based from the question that was being addressed on the movie The Last, it seems like parallels are the case. Everything is far too coincidental.

Such that the families just so happen to follow similar paths, but not by destiny?
Maybe?

There are a lot of things that were left unanswered. For one, Kaguya's betrayal and Hagoromo's and Hamura's fight with Kaguya. Based on what we know, Kaguya was a merciful ruler. She brought upon peace and suddenly turned when Hagoromo and Hamura was mature.

We know that the aliens were going after her. She defeated Isshiki for a purpose. We can say that it had something to do with her having to consume Earth's chakra fruit.

The entire war of Indra and Asura does not make sense looking at it in the perspective of "ninshu inheritor" because Indra has his own school of ninjutsu. The war was based on what will the inhabitants of Earth will have to do.
Based on the other evidences presented to us, this entire decision was derived from Kaguya. Kaguya most likely wanted to originally protect Earth rather than harvesting it. But even after her sacrifices, people living in it are too weak to deal with the other Otsutsuki. So she needed to prepare the world and her solution was IT and making an army.

Preparing Earth's harvest. Can humans defend Earth from the aliens? Is there an advantage keeping the chakra harnessed by the God Tree to be given back to the land and the inhabitants?

I believe this is where Kaguya devised the IT and why Hagoromo and Hamura had to seal their mother. I think she ended up having no choice as the world is still immature. Or it is that she is just bat shit crazy evil and totally wanted power for her own and killed Isshiki to hog it all up.

Or that she refused to be a sacrifice for Isshiki and went all in into becoming independent.

Regardless of which, my guess is that Hagoromo gave the task to Asura to lead because he needed ninshu because he is a late bloomer. This means that he knows more about cooperation and being linked up. Whereas Indra pursuit that power is the thing that they need that can win against Earth's invaders.

Then the moon is basically the safety plan where they will help bring Earth's inhabitant into the point where they can be strong. Which you already know what happened.
 

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We won't know that for sure. Kishi really had a bad structure in writing so we can only go on whatever is plausible to happen based on presented evidence.

But let us say that that is the case, if Indra and Ashura were to not fight (whether or not the fight was caused on who inherits Earth), then Hamura's side would also be free from conflict.
You can say that they are destined to reflect each other.



Based from the question that was being addressed on the movie The Last, it seems like parallels are the case. Everything is far too coincidental.


Maybe?

There are a lot of things that were left unanswered. For one, Kaguya's betrayal and Hagoromo's and Hamura's fight with Kaguya. Based on what we know, Kaguya was a merciful ruler. She brought upon peace and suddenly turned when Hagoromo and Hamura was mature.

We know that the aliens were going after her. She defeated Isshiki for a purpose. We can say that it had something to do with her having to consume Earth's chakra fruit.

The entire war of Indra and Asura does not make sense looking at it in the perspective of "ninshu inheritor" because Indra has his own school of ninjutsu. The war was based on what will the inhabitants of Earth will have to do.
Based on the other evidences presented to us, this entire decision was derived from Kaguya. Kaguya most likely wanted to originally protect Earth rather than harvesting it. But even after her sacrifices, people living in it are too weak to deal with the other Otsutsuki. So she needed to prepare the world and her solution was IT and making an army.

Preparing Earth's harvest. Can humans defend Earth from the aliens? Is there an advantage keeping the chakra harnessed by the God Tree to be given back to the land and the inhabitants?

I believe this is where Kaguya devised the IT and why Hagoromo and Hamura had to seal their mother. I think she ended up having no choice as the world is still immature. Or it is that she is just bat shit crazy evil and totally wanted power for her own and killed Isshiki to hog it all up.

Or that she refused to be a sacrifice for Isshiki and went all in into becoming independent.

Regardless of which, my guess is that Hagoromo gave the task to Asura to lead because he needed ninshu because he is a late bloomer. This means that he knows more about cooperation and being linked up. Whereas Indra pursuit that power is the thing that they need that can win against Earth's invaders.

Then the moon is basically the safety plan where they will help bring Earth's inhabitant into the point where they can be strong. Which you already know what happened.
I hear you, great points.

Regarding your theory, wouldn't IT work against the goal of protecting the earth since it kills people in the process?
 

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Regarding your theory, wouldn't IT work against the goal of protecting the earth since it kills people in the process?
If we take the theory of her being a nice person, then she probably would need a very good reason to end up with that solution.
My guess would be that the thought process is the same as to Madara's goal. His and Obito's deal is that they send the consciousness into an eternal dream while their body is free to use (which unbeknownst to Madara that their body will perish).

Another thing is that we have no idea just how many people she was willing to convert into WZ. Remember, the entire world was caught in the IT but not everyone was under the God Tree. Meaning that everyone would not be affected as long as they are not near by any part of the God Tree. If the grasp of it extends to everywhere, then it is most likely that they are absorbed as you hypothesized.

But yes, it is also that she was just plain evil and wanted to turn every living being back into chakra for her to absorb.
But that is her prerogative.

Although that is less likely as then she would not need to create WZs as it goes against her goal. That means that she needed soldiers. We have no idea just how great her mind control was and what kind of WZ she can create.

Remember, WZ that we know in the Naruto-verse was made by Madara. The only known Zetsu that we know is BZ and we do not even know what he was capable off before Madara combined him with a WZ.

It is possible that BZ's existence before Madara was the same as Jigen. Someone unworthy vessel of the Karma that kept passing on her Karma to another until she reached Madara and have him make WZ (from Gedo Mazou, which we know as her vessel) and have the Karma be transferred to that WZ which we end up knowing as BZ.

So with this in mind, we can give an educated guess about Kaguya and about her actions. It is most likely that she was a great person but grew in desperation in time. She needed soldiers but it is likely that humans were using ninjutsu to war against one another and cannot be trusted to be trained, let alone fight for her.

Another thing is the unknown factor: Isshiki was still alive. He could be working against her and fanning the flames, if not setting them up himself. I mean this guy was betrayed so it is only natural that he ruins her plans. This would make Kaguya more desperate for trust worthy allies.

You also have to understand history. If we take the story of the rabbit princess, we know that she stopped all wars and created a peaceful world. This means that human monstrosity was present before her involvement and that her involvement required her taking in the chakra fruit.

Having to fight Isshiki for it, creating utopia with overwhelming force. She only had to address the problem of her other colleagues and it was only a matter of time. With Isshiki being alive and spiteful, he most likely made humans back into monstrous beings and entice them to be unworthy and untrustworthy in her eyes. Even more so now that her powers are less as the twins took it from her through birth.

So I do not believe that she wanted to turn EVERYONE into WZ. If she did, she did so mercifully by granting them heaven under genjutsu.

EDIT: Another guess would be that she intends to use all the WZ as a Karma carrier so she can revive using all of her army.
 
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If we take the theory of her being a nice person, then she probably would need a very good reason to end up with that solution.
My guess would be that the thought process is the same as to Madara's goal. His and Obito's deal is that they send the consciousness into an eternal dream while their body is free to use (which unbeknownst to Madara that their body will perish).

Another thing is that we have no idea just how many people she was willing to convert into WZ. Remember, the entire world was caught in the IT but not everyone was under the God Tree. Meaning that everyone would not be affected as long as they are not near by any part of the God Tree. If the grasp of it extends to everywhere, then it is most likely that they are absorbed as you hypothesized.

But yes, it is also that she was just plain evil and wanted to turn every living being back into chakra for her to absorb.
But that is her prerogative.

Although that is less likely as then she would not need to create WZs as it goes against her goal. That means that she needed soldiers. We have no idea just how great her mind control was and what kind of WZ she can create.

Remember, WZ that we know in the Naruto-verse was made by Madara. The only known Zetsu that we know is BZ and we do not even know what he was capable off before Madara combined him with a WZ.

It is possible that BZ's existence before Madara was the same as Jigen. Someone unworthy vessel of the Karma that kept passing on her Karma to another until she reached Madara and have him make WZ (from Gedo Mazou, which we know as her vessel) and have the Karma be transferred to that WZ which we end up knowing as BZ.

So with this in mind, we can give an educated guess about Kaguya and about her actions. It is most likely that she was a great person but grew in desperation in time. She needed soldiers but it is likely that humans were using ninjutsu to war against one another and cannot be trusted to be trained, let alone fight for her.

Another thing is the unknown factor: Isshiki was still alive. He could be working against her and fanning the flames, if not setting them up himself. I mean this guy was betrayed so it is only natural that he ruins her plans. This would make Kaguya more desperate for trust worthy allies.

You also have to understand history. If we take the story of the rabbit princess, we know that she stopped all wars and created a peaceful world. This means that human monstrosity was present before her involvement and that her involvement required her taking in the chakra fruit.

Having to fight Isshiki for it, creating utopia with overwhelming force. She only had to address the problem of her other colleagues and it was only a matter of time. With Isshiki being alive and spiteful, he most likely made humans back into monstrous beings and entice them to be unworthy and untrustworthy in her eyes. Even more so now that her powers are less as the twins took it from her through birth.

So I do not believe that she wanted to turn EVERYONE into WZ. If she did, she did so mercifully by granting them heaven under genjutsu.

EDIT: Another guess would be that she intends to use all the WZ as a Karma carrier so she can revive using all of her army.
Stopping all wars means her reach indeed covered the whole world

Zetsu was likely too weak to be a karma vessel since it was not used

The above factors make it likely she was gonna turn everyone into a Homonculus Zetsu.

Also, Madara was misinformed about IT. Remember that Will Zetsu changed the Uchiha Tablet
 

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Stopping all wars means her reach indeed covered the whole world
Yes but she does not need to use GT for that. Also it is most likely that the God Tree was absorbed by her as well (as one of the stories of the stories mentioned by Hagoromo about the Juubi). Yes, I am well aware that that too could also have been retconned as well as the rabbit princess and the one rikudou sennin.

Still, the fact that Madara absorbed the tree before turning into Kaguya and Hagoromo's story about the GT and the Juubi points that GT was most likely absorbed by her.
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Juubi is just her chakra and Gedo Mazou was her body. Before being sealed, the Juubi did not exist and the tree was absorbed by her and not just the fruit.

Zetsu was likely too weak to be a karma vessel since it was not used
I agree but the WZ that we know is different from the ones in Madara's time. Remember that they were made from Hashirama's cell and used Gedo Mazou as a conduit.
Hers is probably far more potent than Hashirama cells.

The above factors make it likely she was gonna turn everyone into a Homonculus Zetsu.
We know that IT was going to cover the entire world but again, it all depends on the GT.
But we have no clue just how much were going to be turned as we need to address the GT. If we take into account the story of Hagoromo, it is less likely that the GT was even present at the time.

Also, Madara was misinformed about IT.
Madara wasn't misinformed. The IT truly will encapsulate the entire world in genjutsu. It is simply what happens after that he was betrayed. Being that the people caught in IT will be absorbed or turned into WZ.

Lastly, we can say that WZ of Madara is the same as WZ of Kaguya, we still need to know why she would need them. Their combat capabilities are pure shit. This is why it is most likely that they could end up being her Karma carrier like BZ was.


If they are indeed superior Zetsus than that made from Hashirama cells, then what she was trying to make could be strong enough to actually be viable to be her Karma carrier or her puppet (like Pein's 6 Paths, or the 4 Edo Tensei Hokages or 4 Edo Tensei Gokages)

Remember that Will Zetsu changed the Uchiha Tablet
The Tablet was about the history so far. BZ added more to it by telling who can read on how to get to the next level. He tricked him by making him a proper vessel of Kaguya for Kaguya's resurrection. It was not a lie that he could use IT to put everyone under genjutsu.

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As stated from above, he was trying to make both sides gain Hagoromo's power. So he altered the Uchiha Tablet to directly show how to cast IT. Most likely because Madara needed something to create his utopia and BZ took advantage of it.
All of the actions that were made is out of preparing Kaguya's resurrection.

So 2 most plausible hypothesis are those: Army or Karma carrier.

Side Note: This is most likely the reason why the ancestral wars happened. It was probably due to BZ's existence on Earth than on the Moon. Also Isshiki but it appears as though he mainly put his head down as Jigen.
 

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Yes but she does not need to use GT for that. Also it is most likely that the God Tree was absorbed by her as well (as one of the stories of the stories mentioned by Hagoromo about the Juubi). Yes, I am well aware that that too could also have been retconned as well as the rabbit princess and the one rikudou sennin.

Still, the fact that Madara absorbed the tree before turning into Kaguya and Hagoromo's story about the GT and the Juubi points that GT was most likely absorbed by her.
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Juubi is just her chakra and Gedo Mazou was her body. Before being sealed, the Juubi did not exist and the tree was absorbed by her and not just the fruit.


I agree but the WZ that we know is different from the ones in Madara's time. Remember that they were made from Hashirama's cell and used Gedo Mazou as a conduit.
Hers is probably far more potent than Hashirama cells.


We know that IT was going to cover the entire world but again, it all depends on the GT.
But we have no clue just how much were going to be turned as we need to address the GT. If we take into account the story of Hagoromo, it is less likely that the GT was even present at the time.


Madara wasn't misinformed. The IT truly will encapsulate the entire world in genjutsu. It is simply what happens after that he was betrayed. Being that the people caught in IT will be absorbed or turned into WZ.

Lastly, we can say that WZ of Madara is the same as WZ of Kaguya, we still need to know why she would need them. Their combat capabilities are pure shit. This is why it is most likely that they could end up being her Karma carrier like BZ was.


If they are indeed superior Zetsus than that made from Hashirama cells, then what she was trying to make could be strong enough to actually be viable to be her Karma carrier or her puppet (like Pein's 6 Paths, or the 4 Edo Tensei Hokages or 4 Edo Tensei Gokages)



The Tablet was about the history so far. BZ added more to it by telling who can read on how to get to the next level. He tricked him by making him a proper vessel of Kaguya for Kaguya's resurrection. It was not a lie that he could use IT to put everyone under genjutsu.

You must be registered for see images
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You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

As stated from above, he was trying to make both sides gain Hagoromo's power. So he altered the Uchiha Tablet to directly show how to cast IT. Most likely because Madara needed something to create his utopia and BZ took advantage of it.
All of the actions that were made is out of preparing Kaguya's resurrection.

So 2 most plausible hypothesis are those: Army or Karma carrier.

Side Note: This is most likely the reason why the ancestral wars happened. It was probably due to BZ's existence on Earth than on the Moon. Also Isshiki but it appears as though he mainly put his head down as Jigen.
The original Homonculi Zetsu would have been normal people, not special cells. So they would have been weaker than the ones made from Hashirama.

This makes the idea of an army as well as Karma less likely.

However, we know with Boruto and Kawaki that Karma doesn't need super strong targets. So it is still possible.

Of course, a single weak Zetsu could be boosted if numbering in the hundreds of thousand, since they use the same techniques. Look at how the Shinobi Army could combo to temporarily stop the Ten Tails
 

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The original Homonculi Zetsu would have been normal people, not special cells. So they would have been weaker than the ones made from Hashirama.
We have a misconception about this. Madara's WZ is solely made from Hashirama cells. We never truly had seen a person fully converted into WZ or if they would even be a WZ when they get consumed by the GT as Team 7 stopped that from happening.

So will they be weaker than WZ, perhaps as WZ are at the very least Otsutsuki. However, they could be far superior as they are their own being to begin with rather than clay being made form and given life, or so to speak.

This makes the idea of an army as well as Karma less likely.
Yet, Kaguya needed an army according to Hagoromo. So I am not quite sure how to deal with this but chalk it up as a plot hole if these 2 reasonings are not ideal.

Of course, a single weak Zetsu could be boosted if numbering in the hundreds of thousand, since they use the same techniques. Look at how the Shinobi Army could combo to temporarily stop the Ten Tails
They were all canon fodders, both sides. Let us not kid ourselves here. Zetsus are useless fodders and the ninjas were superior. You are right about the overwhelming numbers as Naruto used the same strategy for the longest time. However, in the likes for going against Sages, the Otsutsuki, I do not think that they would be even be seen as a nuisance in the eyes of the Otstuski. Same goes for the Shinobi Alliance, except for some select few.

Yes, there is that Spiral Zetsu that was a special case. However, much like Black Zetsu, Spiral Zetsu seem to be a one-off. Perhaps that is what people were going to turn into had they been converted into Zetsus. Or Maybe he is the original White Zetsu and the rest are just inferior clones of him.

Again, we can only speculate based on what we were given:
1) Kaguya betrayed the Otsutsuki, namely Isshiki
2) Kaguya brought peace to the land of wars by dominating humans
3) Kaguya ruled in peace for awhile along with her twins
4) Otsutsuki are coming
5) Kaguya needed an army
6) Kaguya chose to turn everyone into a WZ instead

Whether or not she was nice or that was only a means to pull of her plans, does not matter. Ultimately, she chose that route and planned to gain or retake her power by betraying everyone. She needed to repel the impending Otsutsuki threat. To do so, she needed an army.

Why would she choose an army? And why Zetsus if they are all fodder levels? Perhaps her Zetsus are different from Madara's Zetsus. This is the only conclusion I can think of. Otherwise, the only viable alternative is to be Karma carrier.

Yes, they can be that as Jigen was able to carry Isshiki even though he is defective. Although, he was a special circumstance as Isshiki is also alive and controlling him physically rather than through chakra/seal (Karma).
 

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We have a misconception about this. Madara's WZ is solely made from Hashirama cells. We never truly had seen a person fully converted into WZ or if they would even be a WZ when they get consumed by the GT as Team 7 stopped that from happening.

So will they be weaker than WZ, perhaps as WZ are at the very least Otsutsuki. However, they could be far superior as they are their own being to begin with rather than clay being made form and given life, or so to speak.



Yet, Kaguya needed an army according to Hagoromo. So I am not quite sure how to deal with this but chalk it up as a plot hole if these 2 reasonings are not ideal.



They were all canon fodders, both sides. Let us not kid ourselves here. Zetsus are useless fodders and the ninjas were superior. You are right about the overwhelming numbers as Naruto used the same strategy for the longest time. However, in the likes for going against Sages, the Otsutsuki, I do not think that they would be even be seen as a nuisance in the eyes of the Otstuski. Same goes for the Shinobi Alliance, except for some select few.

Yes, there is that Spiral Zetsu that was a special case. However, much like Black Zetsu, Spiral Zetsu seem to be a one-off. Perhaps that is what people were going to turn into had they been converted into Zetsus. Or Maybe he is the original White Zetsu and the rest are just inferior clones of him.

Again, we can only speculate based on what we were given:
1) Kaguya betrayed the Otsutsuki, namely Isshiki
2) Kaguya brought peace to the land of wars by dominating humans
3) Kaguya ruled in peace for awhile along with her twins
4) Otsutsuki are coming
5) Kaguya needed an army
6) Kaguya chose to turn everyone into a WZ instead

Whether or not she was nice or that was only a means to pull of her plans, does not matter. Ultimately, she chose that route and planned to gain or retake her power by betraying everyone. She needed to repel the impending Otsutsuki threat. To do so, she needed an army.

Why would she choose an army? And why Zetsus if they are all fodder levels? Perhaps her Zetsus are different from Madara's Zetsus. This is the only conclusion I can think of. Otherwise, the only viable alternative is to be Karma carrier.

Yes, they can be that as Jigen was able to carry Isshiki even though he is defective. Although, he was a special circumstance as Isshiki is also alive and controlling him physically rather than through chakra/seal (Karma).
Since a few of his cells were capable of overwhelming over 60 children, maybe they are more powerful than normal people and so would still create stronger Homonculi Zetsu despite being mere cells?

What if she could boost the existing normal Zetsu with her own chakra?

But if normal chuunin and jounin could work together to push back the Ten Tails, is it not reasonable that Zetsu - who are described as jounin level - could work together to match an Otsutsuki?

But wait! Remember what Boruto said about Isshiki not being able to kill him? What if Kaguya could do something like that with Zetsu, to make them unkillable for Otsutsuki?
Ahh, thats the problem with these discussions and predictions - too many possibilities. And the authors can still add more factors!
 
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Its possible, but why would karma prevent him from killing him?

He seems to not like Momoshimi, so i don't think its brotherly duty

It is possible that he could just be curious as to how he managed to be his Karma bearer. It is also that you need to accomplish certain things to be able to imprint Karma. Like say, have the chakra fruit or the Juubi. Maybe there is something he wants to know.
 

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It is possible that he could just be curious as to how he managed to be his Karma bearer. It is also that you need to accomplish certain things to be able to imprint Karma. Like say, have the chakra fruit or the Juubi. Maybe there is something he wants to know.
The seriousness of the statement, "you CAN'T kill me", makes it seem more than personal preference like curiosity.

Still, if they've created this plot twist, the authors can easily create another
 
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