[READ] The solution to VS threads!

~Puppet Master~

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Okay, the title was just to get people's attention, I forgot to mention that.

This isn't supposed to be a substitute for VS threads, but something to support it, it's also meant to show that underrated characters are stronger than people think.

Sorry for all the confusion... U_U
 

Uxellius

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Not bad idea Sasori no danna ...despite it contains math :D
 

FallingLeaf

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this wouldnt work, lets look at naruto vs neji (old fight and still a good one) neji at that time neji would be much better and stronger than naruto but the 9 tails was the game changer and so even tho neji would be higher using ur 'maths' he still lost

same thing happened when naruto vs 6pop
cool but ^this
 

~Puppet Master~

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this wouldnt work, lets look at naruto vs neji (old fight and still a good one) neji at that time neji would be much better and stronger than naruto but the 9 tails was the game changer and so even tho neji would be higher using ur 'maths' he still lost

same thing happened when naruto vs 6pop

Ever heard of plot-no-jutsu?
You know, Naruto was not > Kakuzu when he killed him, it was all because of plot, so this doesn't apply for the manga.
 

Slug Princess Tsunade

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Tsunade:

Intelligence: 8/10
Exp: 10/10
Feats: 7/10
LVL: 10/10 ( 1 hit and u'r a dead man)
SPD: 4/10
DBT: 2/20
WNS: 2, 3/ 3

=17, 82
 

natssuu

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Ever heard of plot-no-jutsu?
You know, Naruto was not > Kakuzu when he killed him, it was all because of plot, so this doesn't apply for the manga.

But in second thought manga is the most reliable source when it comes to versus threads or anything Naruto related, so everything that has happened in manga is absolute fact.
 

Roofy128

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Ever heard of plot-no-jutsu?
You know, Naruto was not > Kakuzu when he killed him, it was all because of plot, so this doesn't apply for the manga.

DOESN'T APPLY FOR THE MANGA

the manga is what we go by you cant ignore it
 

Anakin Skywalker

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Puppet Master's Power Formula

Before you read, ignore the title, it was just to catch people's attention.
I've been thinking about this for a while, people have been making top 10 lists since the dawn of time and I have yet to see a perfect one. Now I thought that maths might do the job, I've created a formula that can measure a character's strenght by giving them a certain grade, between 1 and 20, here's how it works:

By taking important and overlooked factors into account, we can now mix those together with their weaknesses and give them an appropriate grade, these are the factors I'm using:

Intelligence
(1-10) Measured by one's analysing abilities, how well they think during battle and plans they've created.
1 is reckless, like Hidan and A, 10 is very observant and strategic, like Itachi

Battle experience
(1-10) Calculated, average age of becoming a ninja is 12.
Current age - age they became ninja / 5

Feats
(1-10) Measured by the amount of feats and their relevance.
1 is no feats, 10 is many significant feats

Power level
(1-10) Measure by ninjutsu/physical strength/overall lethality and kill rate.
1 is weak, 10 is extremely dangerous/lethal and destructive power

Speed
(1-10) Measured from base speed ( Naruto ) to instant speed ( FTG ).
1 is regular speed, like Shikamaru, 10 is instant transmission like Minato

Durability
(1-20) How long someone will last during battle and wether big attacks will wear them out.
1 is perfectly durable, like Orochimaru and Sasori, 20 is low stamina, or MS decreasing one's eyesight

Weakness
(2-3) Measured by the amount- and severity of one’s weaknesses, and how exploitable they are.
2 is no weaknesses, 3 is lots of exploitable weaknesses

These factors can get a balanced overview of everyone's abilities, and they can be made into a formula:

You must be registered for see images

If you fill out the factors for a certain character, you will get their grade, here are some examples:

EXAMPLE FOR OROCHIMARU
INT: (8/10)
EXP: 54-12=42
42/4=10,5
(10/10)
FTS: (7/10)
LVL: (9/10)
SPD: (5/10)
DBT: (1/20)
WKS: (2,2/3)

(8+10+7+9+5-1)/2,2= 17,3

EXAMPLE FOR KAKASHI
INT: (8/10)
EXP: 30-12=18
18/4=4,5
(4,5/10)
FTS: (1/10)
LVL: (8/10)
SPD: (7/10)
DBT: (3/10)
WKS: (2,2/3)

(8+4,5+1+8+7-3)/2,2= 11,6

EXAMPLE FOR INO
INT: (3/10)
EXP: 16-12=4
4/4=1
(1/10)
FTS: (1/10)
LVL: (2/10)
SPD: (1/10)
DBT: (3/10)
WKS: (2,6/10)

(3+1+1+2+1-3)/2,6= 1,9

EXAMPLE FOR EDO MADARA
INT: (7/10)
EXP: 50-12=38
38/4=9,5
(9,5/10)
FTS: (7/10)
LVL: (10/10)
SPD: (7/10)
DBT: (1/10)
WKS: (2/3)

(7+9,5+7+10+7-1)/2= 19,8

Why is this useful?
Now we can use A > B logic, since these grades are legit.
People who are underrated like Zabuza just because they were trolled, can now get their true strenght exposed.
It's very useful for top 10 threads and vs threads.

great thought and ***** for the effort

i think u need to edit the battle experience calculation its mentioned as /5 but u have used /4

also another problem arises i.e people would argue over what grade to give to feats,speed etc

just a eg
you will give naruto=9 and A=9 for speed bcos obviously they are the first and second fastest alive
but naruto is faster than A there is manga proof so this generalization will become a pblm in close matchup
and u cant give A=8 just bcos he is slower than naruto that will put him in a second tire with sasuke,itachi
see the pblm
 

Niwdog

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I like this, but I do kinda think everything should be out of 10. My only other thing is that the Edo Madara calculation doesn't make much sense... And Edo Madara is a lot older than the age put on there. Technically, the guy is 100 and something years old. We should probably minus the years that he was dead for though, and then that would give us his true years and experience factor. Also, his intelligence should be higher than Orochimaru's. Orochimaru knew A LOT of jutsus and a lot about how a lot of jutsus work, but Madara seems to know more, even knowing how to escape Edo Tensei easily; and this is further supported by the fact that both Madara has had more years to do the sneaky stuff he's been involved with, whereas Oro has had less years but has also engaged in a similar number of sneaky stuff.
 

fastrthnwind

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I made something like this on a thread already

It goes like this:
1) Stats


- First let me give a brief explanation of each Databook Stat so everyone is on the same page.

(Nin) Ninjutsu - A ninja's knowledge and skill at performing Ninja techniques
(Tai) Taijutsu - A ninja's Knowledge and skill with hand to hand combat skills
(Gen) Genjutsu - A ninja's knowledge and skill at peroming Illusion techniques
(Int) Intelligence - Measure of cunning overall knowledge and IQ
(Str) Strength - Measure of physical power and body fitness
(Spd) Speed - Measure of swiftness and reaction speed
(Sta) Stamina - Measure amount of stamina which is the base of chakra
(Sea) Seal Knowledge - A ninja's knowledge and skill at perfomring seals


- Of each of these stats a person can recive a number between 0 - 5 that donotes their skill in that area for max total of 40. However for clarification let me explain what those numbers mean.

The easiest way to understand it is to look at the following chart and replace the quotation marks with one of the Stats Nin, Tai, Gen, Sea.


Skill:

Databook numbers mean...
(Note: Of course know Int, Str, Spd, Sta are not measured in skill but in capacity)

0 = No skill in " "
1 = Poor skill in " "
2 = Below Average skill in " "
3 = Average skill in " "
4 = Above Average skill in " "
5 = Extreme skill in " "



- Now when it comes to Nin , Tai & Gen this does not measure the power of jutsu a person uses but the skill at which they use that style of jutsu. Kakashi is known as the most skillful ninja in Konoha because of his skill with ninjutsu not his overwhelming power.

There is a connection between skill and power tho because in order to use S-class jutsu you need a great deal of skill or in the databook at least a 4 or 5 in the Nin , Tai or Gen class.

Lets use Naruto an an example as we got to see his Rasenshuriken from creation to incomplete form to complete. Naruto in at his return to Konoha had a 4 in Ninjutsu showing he had Above average skill in his style of ninjutsu.

So lets look and see the difference in ninja skills...


Example:

-> With a 4 in Ninjutsu Naruto was able to harness an S-class jutsu but it was unstable and while it worked it also caused his hand damage as well as his opponet making its use dangerous and limited to close range.

-> However look at Naruto Post Sage training with possible a 5 in Ninjutsu his mastery of his Rasenshuriken makes the jutsu stable and a mid range to long range jutsu.


The point being the more skill you have the more control you have and possibly the more powerful the jutsu you can create.


Capacity:

- Ok and as far as Capacity stats like Int , Str, Spd, Sta go this is also not exact measure of capacity but more of a range. I qutote an earlier post I made regarding this to save time.

As for you stamina when at level 5 its not a reflection of an exact amount its just means compared to an average shinobi that it it would be classified extreme stamina. Gai , Naruto and Kisame all have 5 in stamina but that doesnt mean they have he exact same amount.

Here would be a rough idea of how stamina is translated:

1 = Poor Stamina
2 = Below Average Stamina
3 = Average Stamina
4 = Above Average Stamina
5 = Extreme Stamina


So in another example if you translated this into the realm of money then someone who makes maybe $30,000 a year is considered average income ( 3 sat). Then also someone who makes $40,000 is also considered average ( 3 stat). Even tho they are not the same number they both fall into the same
range as that is what it is a range. So somone making $250,000 + a year would be seen as wealthy (5 stat).

So you can look at the 1-5 Stamina chart in the same light as it is just a general range.

Totals

- So lets get to the final part of stats that being the cumilative total of stats and measuring that against another person stats. The total sum of a persons stats measure thier overall skill in all areas however in general there are 2 main types when it comes to higher level shinobi which I call Speciality types and Well rounded types.

-> Speciality types like Gai, Kakashi & Kurenai have most of thier skill in a paticular area that gives them an edge in a fight in theory they can quickly dispatch an enemy using thier overwhelming skill in that area.

-> Well rounded types like Asuma & Sai have solid skills across the board more or less which makes them good in all situations but they lack that overwhelming skill factor to end a fight quickly. The saying good in alot of things but not really great in anything comes to mind.


I'm sure you have all heard someone say that stats are not powerlevels and you can not say the person with the highest sum wins. This is true but as I explained stats are just one large part of a equation when comparing fighters so lets get to the next part.





2) Intel (secrets)


- Another very important factor in fights is the intel one has on their enemy from learning their secrets. To put it simply in the world of shinobi secrets = power. The reason why shinobi like Sakura spend so much time studying jutsu is not just to master them as thier are limits to some of skills you can master. The point is that many popular jutsu have similarites and in a battlefield you may come across a jutsu that is similar to one you have studied and therefore may be able to find a similar weakness and formulate a plan to deal with it.


Example:

-> In an example where Intel works against you would be Jiraiya vs Pain as Nagato knew a fair amount of Jiraya's jutsu's and style of fighting. Jiraiya on the other hand having left Nagato at a young age did not know the full abilites of the Rinnegan nor the Pain system that Nagato created.

So the whole fight he was playing catch up in the sense of gathering intel even tho he had some of his own secrets. The outcome of the fight was a loss for Jiraya in part because he did not figure out Pains secret in time to formulate a strategy.


-> In an example of how intel can work for you would be how Yamanaka Inoichi (Ino's father) using the intel from Shizume about Pain's black rods to figure out that "the Real One" had to be nearby from his own clans experiance with mind transfer type jutsu's. This amongst other efforts helped Naruto in his battle against Pain.





3) Match-ups


- Aside from overall skills and the intel one has there is also this next factor that deals with how each indivuals skills work against the other. Each ninja has their own unique styles with its perspective strengths and weaknesses.

Here are some quick examples of match-ups...


Example:

-> In and example of a bad match is Deidara's Earth based only jutsu style versus Sasuke's Lightning style. Clearly Deidara was fighting an uphill battle parlty on this bad matchup.

-> In an example of a more even match up we have Sage Naruto vs Pain as Naruto's large stamina and simplicity of fighting style work to his advantage against Pain who also has a large amount of stamina and uses multi-body styled jutsu like Naruto.





4) Power-ups


- This category has some of the hidden X-factor which adds to the overall chance of victory. This includes Bloodline limits as well as Bijuu powers of jinchuuriki as well as any other kind of special powers one may have.

-> This is part of what makes the Uchiha so dangerous as you remeber I said intel is a huge part of adding to chance of victory. The Sharingan allows the user to gather that intel rather quickly in the heat of battle without too much danger to themselves which is what makes it such a powerful power up.





5) Scenario


- This includes the condition under which battle takes place such as factors of enviroment, current health of the individuals and preparedness for battle. This is another X-factor that can effect the outcome of a fight.


Examples:

-> If a long distance type where to be suprised attacked in an enclosed space then thier advantage would be taken from them. Just as an elemental enviroment with say a Water styled ninja fighting an Earth type on a boat far out at sea. Even tho the Earth ninja may technically have the match-up advantage they loose some of it being far out to see away from land where their jutsu would be more useful. Therefore the Water ninja gets the Scenario advantage because the enviroment is in his favor.

-> Orochimaru's bad health when Sasuke atatcked him is another example of this factor as he was already in weakened state giving an advantage to Sasuke.




The Finale & Equation


- Ok know we are nearing the end of this so let me put in the final touches.

The basic formula would be...


Stats +/- Intel +/- Match-ups +/- Power-ups +/- Scenario = Chance of victory



In each category someone may have or loose the advantage and this adds or minus there change of victory as that is what a battle is in the end just a chance of victory or failure.


- In the Stats category its generaly about the gap in skill as in who has the higher level of total skill as this is a major factor in the equation. Someone who has a total of 30 vs another guy at 15 makes a huge gap in skills.

-> People may point out Shikamaru (24) vs Hidan (31.5) however the real trump in that fight was Intel & Scenario. Shikamru had already figured out Hidan's secret and created a plan before hand so it was all scripted.

In a blank slate fight where Shikamaru and Hidan entered with no knowledge of each other Hidan would most likely obliterate him. As during the fight with Asuma, Hidan was able to avoid Shikamru's Shadow sewing and deal with Asuma at the same time.


Hopefully this explanation helps make people see Databook stats as part of a larger factor but one of many in determining the outcome of a fight.
 
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Voltron

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wow! You put in a lot of thought! Starting to look like formulas I deal with!
Of the formulas from moneyball! lol
 

Shodaime Swagkage

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I like this I'll try it sometime but who the hell wants to do Math on NB?
 

razinzell

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Nice formula but the thing is people will be like "what? you gave Oro a 9 in ninjutsu? that's bs" and so on. Somebody said a different formula on a thread a while ago and i think it is more simple and effective

rate them on 3 things,
strength (not just physical strength, any offensive capabilities)
speed
defense

and this is the formula: it's like rock paper scissors

speed>strength
strength>defense
defense>speed
 

~Puppet Master~

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I like this I'll try it sometime but who the hell wants to do Math on NB?

Judging by your name, not you xd
But this is when math gets useful.

Nice formula but the thing is people will be like "what? you gave Oro a 9 in ninjutsu? that's bs" and so on. Somebody said a different formula on a thread a while ago and i think it is more simple and effective

rate them on 3 things,
strength (not just physical strength, any offensive capabilities)
speed
defense

and this is the formula: it's like rock paper scissors

speed>strength
strength>defense
defense>speed

There lies the problem, you will have Itachi fans say that Itachi is a lot smarter and therefore he is stronger.
So that's why I added battle experience and intelligence, they're important factors in battle.
 

Mirai

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Its good on paper but the VS threads are for others to post there own opinions in match ups.But you can use this to your own threads mate i would be very nice to see it
 
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