Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

[Zetsueno]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Minato has better shunshin, but now that its confirmed that tobirama can move instantly then that means he can move on par with minato. & as for the reflexes & speed thing, KCM minato lost an arm, base minato would've been fodderized way before that seeing as KCM also improves sensing ability. Tobirama has better sensing than minato & minato even praised tobriama for his quick thinking after he got hit by obito. Also that was obito's first speedblitz, you know what that means? that means that they had no measure of his speed before that instant yet tobirama was still quick enough to think of a strategy. KCM minato still lost an arm knowing full well of obito's speed.



Wow so much bias in 1 paragraph..First of all tobirama never had FTG kunai but its proven that he can place a mark on things, either his jutsu has a range or he didnt have a mark placed earlier. Also, minato wasnt hunted down by 20 master bounty hunters. No ninja in the entire series has ever been given the title of "master bounty hunter". You know what that means? That means that they werent fodder, they could've been all kage level shinobi for all we know, they also came from kumogakure which means that they could have speed on par with A as well. There are too many variables in this so using it as an argument is invalid.



Better doesnt mean faster, maybe minato's FTG has a longer range than tobirama's, maybe minato uses kunai while tobirama doesnt. Remember what minato said about obito's kamui? It was better than his own jutsu, does that mean that kamui is faster too? Of course not, so this argument is also invalid.



Senju level shinobi>uchiha level shinobi. If tobirama has some senjus or even some uchiha's then that would be enough. All tobirama needs to do is get them close then he uses his bombs, or even better he can use the bombs right after summoning, & blow up the entire battlefield which would destroy minato's kunai. Minato cant seal the edo because if he gets close then tobirama detonates it.



Even if he doesnt have it, it wont make much of a difference. Minato's rasengan is hardly worth using an s/t barrier for.



Tobirama's suiton was on a large scale, he has mastery because he can summon water with the use of just 1 seal. Also if you dont recall minato's kunai would be scattered around the battlefield. What will the suiton do? It will not only give tobi the terrain advantage but it will wash all of minato's kunai away.

Tobirama >= Minato, FTG gave him an incredible advantage.

KCM improving Minato's sensing abilities is a baseless argument, since we've seen nothing so far that suggest KCM improves Minato's sensing abilities. Maybe for Naruto, but, there's no saying if it was an ability that stems from Kyuubi itself, or Kyuubi chakra. Then again, Minato was a sensor of the highest class, on par with Tobirama. You're forgetting his sensory feats, which I believe you wouldn't ask me to specify.

FTG - Better, or faster. Eitherway, Minato out-does Tobirama in that department. Their techs are obviously the same in essence. So, most probably his mastery over it.

Senju level greater than Uchiha level? That may have been stated, but, edo is not something that can be compared on senju-uchiha basis. For one thing, Tobirama invented it. Not like all senjus and uchiha used edo. Not to mention Tobirama's edos were weaker than both Oro's and Kabuto's.

Elite Kumo nin being fast as A? Are you serious? Elite or not, if he was as good as they say he is, then that would not have mattered. Even A was unable to properly react to FTG, much less counter it, even with B's help. But, with his large scale suiton, by your logic, he should have won easily.

Minato took on both A and B, the hachibi jinchuuriki mulitiple times and outmatched them. With his FTG. Tobirama got defeated by two guys with 1% kyuubi chakra. How do you explain that?

I told you, bombs are simply a matter of FTG-ing away, and then coming back to seal the said edo. Edo tensei takes time to regenerate, remember?

Rasengan surely is not the only offensive move he knows. He could use atleast one elemental affinity and don't forget Uzumaki seals and the toad summons.

 

[Avinash012]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

For starters, Minato's FTG is more ''efficient'' not ''better'', the Hokages did not teleport to the battlefield that would make no sense because they both need seals for FTG

1) Minato had no seal at the battlefield
2) Tobirama had no seal at the battlefield
3) First and third Hokage cannot use FTG

So yeah, Tobirama was as a matter of fact complimenting Minato's speed not FTG, btw Tobirama was able to place explosives AND a seal on Obito even though that attack lasted less than a second if that doesn't show you anything about Tobirama's reflexes that you keep trying to downgrade, then you really need to read the manga properly and UNDERSTAND it...

You do realize that to seal Edo Tensei Minato will have to get them pinned to a particular point?, and these Edo Tenseis have EXPLOSIVES.. Anyway I don't think Tobirama will use it against Minato seeing as he forbade the technique but if you have no intel on how Tobirama uses Edo Tensei, which I'm sure Minato doesn't, then you could be caught off guard

AND YES, Tobirama does have high level Suiton techniques, whether you want to believe it or not, when he fought the third Hokage, both he and his bro were brought back without full powers, and he was able to do those.. So if you think he can't use Suiton techniques with full power, then you need a re-think

Dude ur points does makes sence ......
Here no one said that Tobirama had no reflexes or he isn't faster,we are sayng that Tobirama is only second for Minato ......
Tobirama needed Hashirama's help to use his jutsu and yes that is impressive ,to be able to attack him as wel as manage to place a seal on him in that condition is an impressive move but that dosent mean that he is better than MInato...
Minato did the same think more than one time
see this

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Look at that MInato did the same thing with Obito as wel as Bee where it is almost Imposible
Tobirama did it with a brainless Juubito and with the help of HAshirama's clone where as in Minato's case Obito had ful intel on MInato and there is no hope for MInato to hit Obito..........
There is no explination needed for Bee's case it is completly unexpected attack from Bee but he still able to place a seal on him not only that he is able to defeat them more than one time even though they got intel on him....

It is already proved that Minato's shunshin is better than Tobirama as stated by Tobirama

Yes FTG is instant but Minato's FTG is dfntly better than Tobirama ......
no need to mention abt level 2 it is even advanced than normal FTG......if u think FTG 2 allows him to teleport to flyng Kunai ...then it is clear that u dnt knw how FTG works or ur just a fanboy ,no logic works on u....

If u think Iam a fanboy of Minato or a hatter of Tobirama .....see my thread abt Tobirama then u'll understand

I made that thread on 16-7-13....long b4 yesterdays chapter.............

 

[benzy]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Minato has better shunshin, but now that its confirmed that tobirama can move instantly then that means he can move on par with minato. & as for the reflexes & speed thing, KCM minato lost an arm, base minato would've been fodderized way before that seeing as KCM also improves sensing ability. Tobirama has better sensing than minato & minato even praised tobriama for his quick thinking after he got hit by obito. Also that was obito's first speedblitz, you know what that means? that means that they had no measure of his speed before that instant yet tobirama was still quick enough to think of a strategy. KCM minato still lost an arm knowing full well of obito's speed.



Wow so much bias in 1 paragraph..First of all tobirama never had FTG kunai but its proven that he can place a mark on things, either his jutsu has a range or he didnt have a mark placed earlier. Also, minato wasnt hunted down by 20 master bounty hunters. No ninja in the entire series has ever been given the title of "master bounty hunter". You know what that means? That means that they werent fodder, they could've been all kage level shinobi for all we know, they also came from kumogakure which means that they could have speed on par with A as well. There are too many variables in this so using it as an argument is invalid.



Better doesnt mean faster, maybe minato's FTG has a longer range than tobirama's, maybe minato uses kunai while tobirama doesnt. Remember what minato said about obito's kamui? It was better than his own jutsu, does that mean that kamui is faster too? Of course not, so this argument is also invalid.



Senju level shinobi>uchiha level shinobi. If tobirama has some senjus or even some uchiha's then that would be enough. All tobirama needs to do is get them close then he uses his bombs, or even better he can use the bombs right after summoning, & blow up the entire battlefield which would destroy minato's kunai. Minato cant seal the edo because if he gets close then tobirama detonates it.



Even if he doesnt have it, it wont make much of a difference. Minato's rasengan is hardly worth using an s/t barrier for.



Tobirama's suiton was on a large scale, he has mastery because he can summon water with the use of just 1 seal. Also if you dont recall minato's kunai would be scattered around the battlefield. What will the suiton do? It will not only give tobi the terrain advantage but it will wash all of minato's kunai away.

Tobirama >= Minato, FTG gave him an incredible advantage.

Your Tryes to Make Tobirama > Minato are USELESS STOP IT.

 

[Draphsin]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

KCM improving Minato's sensing abilities is a baseless argument, since we've seen nothing so far that suggest KCM improves Minato's sensing abilities. Maybe for Naruto, but, there's no saying if it was an ability that stems from Kyuubi itself, or Kyuubi chakra.

Wrong, kurama himself can sense negative emotions

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. Its a sensory ability that mito uzumaki (who was the jinchuuriki) also possessed, proving that it is not only restricted to naruto.

Then again, Minato was a sensor of the highest class, on par with Tobirama. You're forgetting his sensory feats, which I believe you wouldn't ask me to specify.

Wrong again, his best sensing feat involved placing his finger on the ground. Tobirama can sense who's chakra is in what direction exactly without the use of his finger & with it too. He can tell what clan a person is from just by sensing them, he sensed oro's body which was made of senju dna & karin who was an uzumaki.

FTG - Better, or faster. Eitherway, Minato out-does Tobirama in that department. Their techs are obviously the same in essence. So, most probably his mastery over it.

I guess then obito beats minato in that department as well, his kamui is better than minato's so going by your logic he out does minato in that department.

Senju level greater than Uchiha level? That may have been stated, but, edo is not something that can be compared on senju-uchiha basis. For one thing, Tobirama invented it. Not like all senjus and uchiha used edo. Not to mention Tobirama's edos were weaker than both Oro's and Kabuto's.

Why cant edo be compared? the bold makes no sense..

& You are wrong for the third time, nowhere in the manga was it stated that tobirama's edos are weaker than oro & kabuto's, you are making up statements. Tobirama's edo tensei was imperfected, that could be due to a number of reasons but power is not one of them because it was never stated.

Elite Kumo nin being fast as A? Are you serious? Elite or not, if he was as good as they say he is, then that would not have mattered. Even A was unable to properly react to FTG, much less counter it, even with B's help. But, with his large scale suiton, by your logic, he should have won easily.

Master bounty hunters, they arent merely "elite" they could be kage level as I said. If they are kage level then tell me why they cant be as fast or close to A's speed? (who is kage level). You have no idea of their abilities so as I said arguing this is pointless.

@Bold: Please explain how my logic suggests that tobirama's suiton can stop 20 master bounty hunters.

Minato took on both A and B, the hachibi jinchuuriki mulitiple times and outmatched them. With his FTG. Tobirama got defeated by two guys with 1% kyuubi chakra. How do you explain that?

1) abc logic is flawed so you already lost there Lol. 2) Minato never outmatched A & Bee, bee had minato just as minato had bee. Also bee admitted that MS sasuke was the toughest guy he ever fought so minato isnt even worth mentioning. 3) Tobirama got defeated by 22 guys, 20 of them who could've been kage level shinobi, also prove that kin & jin only have 1% of kurama's chakra (smh).

Stop using this as an argument, its terrible & proves absolutely nothing Lol.

I told you, bombs are simply a matter of FTG-ing away, and then coming back to seal the said edo. Edo tensei takes time to regenerate, remember?

Where does he teleport them too? His kunai are scattered all over the battlefield, he cant have pre placed kunai for a battle that he had no knowledge of. This means that minato has no place to even teleport the edos, & this is assuming he can grab an edo, teleport it away & teleport back before it detonates (which is highly unlikely). & as I said tobirama can summon & detonate the edos right away, clearing the battlefield & destroying minato's kunai in the process.

Rasengan surely is not the only offensive move he knows. He could use atleast one elemental affinity and don't forget Uzumaki seals and the toad summons.

Rasengan is his only offense as of now, elemental affinities & uzumaki seals are all assumption at this point, we have no idea what they could be so its the same thing as making up abilities. & Toads get stopped by bombs.

 

[Avinash012]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Wrong, kurama himself can sense negative emotions

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. Its a sensory ability that mito uzumaki (who was the jinchuuriki) also possessed, proving that it is not only restricted to naruto.



Wrong again, his best sensing feat involved placing his finger on the ground. Tobirama can sense who's chakra is in what direction exactly without the use of his finger & with it too. He can tell what clan a person is from just by sensing them, he sensed oro's body which was made of senju dna & karin who was an uzumaki.



I guess then obito beats minato in that department as well, his kamui is better than minato's so going by your logic he out does minato in that department.



Why cant edo be compared? the bold makes no sense..

& You are wrong for the third time, nowhere in the manga was it stated that tobirama's edos are weaker than oro & kabuto's, you are making up statements. Tobirama's edo tensei was imperfected, that could be due to a number of reasons but power is not one of them because it was never stated.



Master bounty hunters, they arent merely "elite" they could be kage level as I said. If they are kage level then tell me why they cant be as fast or close to A's speed? (who is kage level). You have no idea of their abilities so as I said arguing this is pointless.

@Bold: Please explain how my logic suggests that tobirama's suiton can stop 20 master bounty hunters.



1) abc logic is flawed so you already lost there Lol. 2) Minato never outmatched A & Bee, bee had minato just as minato had bee. Also bee admitted that MS sasuke was the toughest guy he ever fought so minato isnt even worth mentioning. 3) Tobirama got defeated by 22 guys, 20 of them who could've been kage level shinobi, also prove that kin & jin only have 1% of kurama's chakra (smh).

Stop using this as an argument, its terrible & proves absolutely nothing Lol.



Where does he teleport them too? His kunai are scattered all over the battlefield, he cant have pre placed kunai for a battle that he had no knowledge of. This means that minato has no place to even teleport the edos, & this is assuming he can grab an edo, teleport it away & teleport back before it detonates (which is highly unlikely). & as I said tobirama can summon & detonate the edos right away, clearing the battlefield & destroying minato's kunai in the process.



Rasengan is his only offense as of now, elemental affinities & uzumaki seals are all assumption at this point, we have no idea what they could be so its the same thing as making up abilities. & Toads get stopped by bombs.

Dude I knw that u dnt knw anything abt Minato.....!

Minato can't sence without finger......?
WTF is this then ..?

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He didn't even usng KCM back then......
Tobirama also uses the same method as Minato(Finger ) to sence the presence of enmy..........
He senced Obito right after his arrival behind him(on hokage face)......!

Mito can sence evil bcoz she is kyubi's Jin.....?
Had any proof to say that Mito is a perfect Jin....?
every Uzumaki is a sensor(we dnt knw abt Kushina)..!
Karin
Nagato
Mito

Minato's FTG is faster than Obito only reason for Obito being better is he dnt need any seals and probably he is usng Zetsu 's help(not sure just my openion).......

Tobirama stated that Oro had Improved the accuracy of jutsu and he managed to revive them with thire ful power......!


we dnt knw wether kin & gin force are kage level or not and it is not an easy thing to have a group of 20 kage level shinobi and Gin & Kin are dfntly Kage level and all others are thire followers so it is safe to assume that they are Jounin or high level Jounin class shinobi.......argng over this is a foolish thing since we dant knw any thing abt it........


Bee never said Sasuke is the strongest amoung his Foe ....he said that the sharingan gai is top two in strength if u want proof see this episode

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he said that at 3.12 min...........



Rasengan is only offence...?
read last 3 chapters of Manga(that long named jutsu)........!

Affinity is an assumption.......?

DO u knw the reason behind the creation of Rasengan.......?

he created Rasengan to combine it with his main affinity and he died b4 acmplsng that task...!

Uzumaki seals are an Assumption........?

Do u knw how FTG works.....?
Seal used to seal Kyubi inside Naruto.....?
4 symboled seal......?
Seal used to bind 9 tails inside Naruto(Same as Hashi used to bind Juubi).....?
Contact seal that can break the link with kyubi.......?
RDS......?
Barriers......?

 

[Senju Bean]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Well, I dont know if Tobirama>Minato in a direct 1-1 fight. But, most certainly, Tobirama would be the one to fear in a war. Edo + FTG combo is just too much. He could take out the entire battlefield in seconds, with his tagged Edos.

 

[benzy]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

well, i dont know if tobirama>minato in a direct 1-1 fight. But, most certainly, tobirama would be the one to fear in a war. edo + ftg combo is just too much. He could take out the entire battlefield in seconds, with his tagged edos.

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[Penguin]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

When Minato tags a near instant Juubito with a Hiraishin mark with one half of his body, while also tagging three explosive tags on Juubito, then come talk. Mind you, Tobirama was taken by suprise to the blitz, so he thought of a plan and executed it in under a second. That is a huge feat for intelligence and reaction.

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That is not your eyes tricking you. That is Tobirama out speeding KCM Minato who is faster than regular Minato, or having a better reaction time or whatever you see it as.

Tobirama is a more diverse fighter as Minato mainly uses FTG and has a FTG base fighting style. That is why Tobirama is better imo.

 

[Fodder#4]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

He is not.

 

[Sygris]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

minatos cloak > tobiramas fur

 

[Penguin]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Minato fanboys get too protective. Once Tobirama gets FTG those Minato fanboys start saying Minato > Tobirama.

#TheyStartIt
#WeEndIt

 

[Sygris]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

so tobirama has shown that he can mark... and?
nothing has changed power wise. minato is still superior to tobirama. sure, tobirama is now above hiruzen, but he needs more feats if he wants to be above minato.

actually tobirama got weaker in a sense. his fans claimed that he could speedblitz with his ftg slash without markings, but since it is known now that he needs them, his speedblitz capabilities got reduced. no ftg slash gg anymore.

 

[Penguin]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

so tobirama has shown that he can mark... and?
nothing has changed power wise. minato is still superior to tobirama. sure, tobirama is now above hiruzen, but he needs more feats if he wants to be above minato.

actually tobirama got weaker in a sense. his fans claimed that he could speedblitz with his ftg slash without markings, but since it is known now that he needs them, his speedblitz capabilities got reduced. no ftg slash gg anymore.

Show me a scan of him saying he needs marks for Hiraishingiri.

 

[Sygris]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Show me a scan of him saying he needs marks for Hiraishingiri.

it's obvious. minato is the better ftg user, and he needs markings. tobirama is the same, deal with it. otherwise post proof.

 

[Minator93]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Show me a scan of him saying he needs marks for Hiraishingiri.

Never go full retard U_U

Its been confirmed that anything related to Hiraishin need markings, Kamui is the only self-teleportation that works w/out markings U_U

 

[Lightning Release]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Tobirama got raped by Ninjas that Minato would've solo'd in about 5 seconds. LOL

 

[King-Panda]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

boy, use your brain... compare what you have seen from minato, and what you have seen from tobirama.. from tobirama almost nothing, but when he moves, the earth quakes

for example, who would know that Hashirama was that strong

 

[Draphsin]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

Lol you actually posted this in the thread & still decided to spam my VM with it? Dont worry ill reserve this & rebut every word another time Lol.

Dude I knw that u dnt knw anything abt Minato.....!

Minato can't sence without finger......?
WTF is this then ..?

You must be registered for see images

He didn't even usng KCM back then......
Tobirama also uses the same method as Minato(Finger ) to sence the presence of enmy..........
He senced Obito right after his arrival behind him(on hokage face)......!

Mito can sence evil bcoz she is kyubi's Jin.....?
Had any proof to say that Mito is a perfect Jin....?
every Uzumaki is a sensor(we dnt knw abt Kushina)..!
Karin
Nagato
Mito

Minato's FTG is faster than Obito only reason for Obito being better is he dnt need any seals and probably he is usng Zetsu 's help(not sure just my openion).......

Tobirama stated that Oro had Improved the accuracy of jutsu and he managed to revive them with thire ful power......!


we dnt knw wether kin & gin force are kage level or not and it is not an easy thing to have a group of 20 kage level shinobi and Gin & Kin are dfntly Kage level and all others are thire followers so it is safe to assume that they are Jounin or high level Jounin class shinobi.......argng over this is a foolish thing since we dant knw any thing abt it........


Bee never said Sasuke is the strongest amoung his Foe ....he said that the sharingan gai is top two in strength if u want proof see this episode

You must be registered for see links

he said that at 3.12 min...........



Rasengan is only offence...?
read last 3 chapters of Manga(that long named jutsu)........!

Affinity is an assumption.......?

DO u knw the reason behind the creation of Rasengan.......?

he created Rasengan to combine it with his main affinity and he died b4 acmplsng that task...!

Uzumaki seals are an Assumption........?

Do u knw how FTG works.....?
Seal used to seal Kyubi inside Naruto.....?
4 symboled seal......?
Seal used to bind 9 tails inside Naruto(Same as Hashi used to bind Juubi).....?
Contact seal that can break the link with kyubi.......?
RDS......?
Barriers......?

 

[Liath]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

i wish i could take a picture of all these minato fanboys huddled in one place...

 

[ajpn920]

Re: How on earth is Tobirama better than Minato?

There are pure Tobirama fans that acknowledges Minato's superiority. Those who always rant are some itachi fanboys like the mellanoma dude who always make threads about Tobirama>Minato.