So you're telling me rinnegan is needed to achive an MS ability? since EMS madara was never shown using PS either.
Stop being in denial bro kurama had like the exact armor of sasuke's PS plus when it fully coated kurama's avatar the mask looked exactly like sasuke's PS.
I never said that EMS Madara's able to use PS.
I just said that EMS Madara is above EMS Sasuke because of experiences, techniques and Kurama as his summon.
EMS Sasuke doesn't have anything fuinjutsu that break the genjutsu Madara put Kurama into.
His eyes were closed and it was never shown plus madara can revert his eye back to sharingan just like when kakashi can't revert his sharingan to normal and nagato couldn't revert his rinnegan to normal either while original users can revert it back ti normal at well (in the last sasuke was shown with his eyes normal and later they were rinnegan and sharingan when he saved konoha from the meteor)
and even if that's correct that still does not prove that sasuke had rikudo chakra because of the reasons in my previous post.
I never said that EMS Madara's able to use PS.
I just said that EMS Madara is above EMS Sasuke because of experiences, techniques and Kurama as his summon.
EMS Sasuke doesn't have anything fuinjutsu that break the genjutsu Madara put Kurama into.
experiences: I didn't see senju DNA, SM or even the fact that he was a JJ help him against Sasuke when he sliced him with chidori blade so I seriously doubt experiences would make any difference.
techniques: Madara can only use katon and susanoo sasuke in the other hand has infinite shurikens the sword of kusanagi chidori variants enton and poison snakes katon and susanoo plus sasuke is much faster by feats (madara had SM when evaded sasuke's attacks plus sasuke could've used chidori to extend his range but plot saved madara)
kurama as his summon: not really helpful since uchiha can break genjutsu with their sharingan as shown when itachi freed sasuke from kabuto's sound genjutsu and vice versa hell even minato was able to free kutama from genjutsu and as far as I know kurama doesn't seem to like madara that much so he'll probably attack madara the moment he's freed.
in my opinion EMS sasuke is better in every regard.
experiences: I didn't see senju DNA, SM or even the fact that he was a JJ help him against Sasuke when he sliced him with chidori blade so I seriously doubt experiences would make any difference.
techniques: Madara can only use katon and susanoo sasuke in the other hand has infinite shurikens the sword of kusanagi chidori variants enton and poison snakes katon and susanoo plus sasuke is much faster by feats (madara had SM when evaded sasuke's attacks plus sasuke could've used chidori to extend his range but plot saved madara)
kurama as his summon: not really helpful since uchiha can break genjutsu with their sharingan as shown when itachi freed sasuke from kabuto's sound genjutsu and vice versa hell even minato was able to free kutama from genjutsu and as far as I know kurama doesn't seem to like madara that much so he'll probably attack madara the moment he's freed.
in my opinion EMS sasuke is better in every regard.
You really underestimate Madara greatly. Experiences: Madara fought war many times. He was clearly better than every uchihas in his era. Madara's genius, he's able to kill experienced adult senju men. Stamina: EMS Madara lasts in one day. that's really great feat. EMS Sasuke doesn't have the feat EMS Madara had. Taijutsu and Swordsmanship: Madara is master at swordsmanship. he solo'd half of shinobi alliance with his taijutsu and swordmanship. Ninjutsu: Madara's able to use Katon fire annihilation and other fire styles. take this scan as an example
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Hashirama stated that Madara somehow "retrieved" his past powers. that means Madara used that ninjutsu in during his time. Genjutsu: Madara controlled Kurama like his loyal pet.
There're so many feats. EMS Madara neg EMS sasuke mid-high diff.
You really underestimate Madara greatly. Experiences: Madara fought war many times. He was clearly better than every uchihas in his era. Madara's genius, he's able to kill experienced adult senju men. Stamina: EMS Madara lasts in one day. that's really great feat. EMS Sasuke doesn't have the feat EMS Madara had. Taijutsu and Swordsmanship: Madara is master at swordsmanship. he solo'd half of shinobi alliance with his taijutsu and swordmanship. Ninjutsu: Madara's able to use Katon fire annihilation and other fire styles. take this scan as an example
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Hashirama stated that Madara somehow "retrieved" his past powers. that means Madara used that ninjutsu in during his time. Genjutsu: Madara controlled Kurama like his loyal pet.
There're so many feats. EMS Madara neg EMS sasuke mid-high diff.
as for his taijutsu is no match for sasuke's superior kenjutsu boosted with enton and raiton blades and keep in mind he had SM back then wich further boosts his speed and reflexes so if he was at base he would get sliced like butter plus his fire style didn't do squat to sasuke and naruto when it was point blank not to mention sasuke has the superior enton or black flames wich he can turn to spikes which could end madara in second.
and again kurama is easily freed with sasuke's genjutsu so no.
let's see:
Taijutsu: Sasuke mostly uses swords and with enton and chidroi backing his fighting style add to that his near JJ speed makes taijutsu suicidal for madara
Ninjutsu: Katon won't help him in the face ofr the superior enton and chidori
Genjutsu: both have EMS so they negate each other
I don't see madara harming sasuke in any way keep in mind that this madara lacks the senju DNA that made his body stronger against the SA or the rinnegan which gives OP abilities not to mention his lack of mukton
PS is not relevant since both can use it plus sasuke's PS has access to more jutsu than madara
Like I said EMS sasuke is superior to EMS madara in every way
if we're counting pure uchiha like the OP said and if we assume that obito get's strained from phasing and warping then:
0-Indra
1-Sasuke(PS chidori is pretty powerful and fastest PS by feats)
2-Obito (kamui pretty powerful)
3-Madara(PS is strong but there no MS abilities)
4-Itachi (genjutsu is useless against skilled sharingan users plus weapons won't help if he can't hit them since all other PS are faster stronger and bigger)
5-Shisui(nothing to note)
No it's actually a trait of his senju dna, preta grants a different animation & he did pierce madara with his artificial hand. But yeah I did forget that we're talking about an obito w/o senju dna, regardless though he can still retreat to his dimension to refill if need be.
Like i said, DMS Obito doesn't have Preta path. so it's irrelevant. What i mean is that Kakashi used kamui with his own chakra. The side effect is strain condition. I never heard Kakashi overshadow his limit.
No, chakra absorption may not be viable but retreating to refill his chakra is still an option. & No, that was still a fodder kakashi in comparison to what war-arc kakashi can do, even w/ naruto's refills he still performed a multitude of snipes with his own chakra. Also using kakashi to demonstrate obito's chakra reserves while using kamui is also flawed. Kakashi had his kamui for what? less than a year? & The first time he used it he was in danger of passing out, in the war he was using it casually even when he was low on chakra, he overshadowed those "first time" limits.
Then we have someone like itachi to compare to, who has awful stamina for an uchiha yet still managed to maintain his susanoo while blind & until he died. He had his MS for years, sasuke who had his MS for weeks went blind & couldn't use it anymore. Now obito, who has had his mangekyou for the longest out of anyone is using a MS jutsu that hardly makes someone like kakashi's eye bleed, meaning he has more than enough time to end the fight before it becomes too much.
No you never said that Obito can spam kamui but what i'm trying to explain is that DMS Obito cant spam Kamui without Hashirama DNA. therefore, DMS Obito isn't really invincible like people said.
I never said he was invincible, but he's the strongest out of the uchiha under these conditions. & He can still spam kamui w/o hashi dna but not for long w/o suffering in return. He can use it for long enough to end the fights against the uchiha mentioned.
If the Shinobis like Kakashi and Naruto found out Obito's five minute limit weakness, Obito would have a hard time.
The only person who legitimately found out about that limit was konan & that was through years of spying. The SA found out through unknown means, & in any case knowing obito's time limit doesn't guarantee a win w/o prep.
That doesn't prove anything, his sharingan was active,
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is what a blind eye looks like. If anything he was nearing blindness but that's still extremely impressive considering he's been fighting for more than a day.
However, Obito, on another story, would be immediately blind because he used teleportation, transport dimension ability and other etc.
Lol No obito won't immediately go blind, not when his MS has shown to produce the least amount of blood compared to the number of uses it's gotten. Not when sasuke, a mangekyou newbie lasted throughout the whole 5 kage fight & danzo fight. & Especially not when someone like itachi could maintain his MS jutsus until death.
Obito has more than enough kamui uses to end the fight before he suffers adverse affects, hell if they aren't fast enough they'd get sniped from the first one.
Sasuke EMS... (Perfect Susanoo, Left eye-Amaterasu, Right eye-Eton:Kagutsuchi)
Obito MS... (Perfect Susanoo, Left eye-long range Kamui, Right eye-short range Kamui on physical contact, Intangibility)
-But can't spam without an EMS or Senju DNA due to visual fatigue-
Madara EMS... (Perfect Susanoo, Left eye-Unknown, Right eye-Unknown)
Itachi MS... (Susanoo, Left eye-Tsukuyomi, Right eye-Amaterasu)
-His Susanoo is tall as Perfect Susanoo's ankle. Yata mirror and Totsuka blade. Can't spam without EMS.
Can't put Obito where I'd like since we don't know how well he functions Kamui without enhanced chakra. But I would have him up top if we included his DMS with Hashirama's DNA. Also, Indra isn't really an Uchiha so to speak.
