Questions about Madara and Hashirama

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

With the recent Hashirama vs Hiruzen threads, it got me thinking. Would Madara’s infinite chakra affect how powerful the jutsus he performed, and are they really as strong as they are shown if they weren't edo?
Basically these.

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Here is how I see the infinite chakra working. Let’s say you have a 2 liter bottle and fill it with water. We will say the water is chakra. Let’s say Madara uses the meteor technique and it takes up 80% of his chakra. He could technically use 90% of his chakra and make it a little bit bigger right. He couldn’t use 110% though because it is not in his reserves. After a technique is used, that 2 liter bottle is filled back up instantly. If his chakra was truly infinite, he would have been able to make a meteor as big as the moon and killed everyone if he wanted to. I do not see this as being a possibility with Madara.

The other question I have is did Madara use his entire chakra reserves to perform the above jutsus knowing that edo tensei would instantly fill his chakra? Since he knew how to break the seal, I’m assuming he also knew how it worked.
If the above are true, it leads me to believe Madara would not have used these techniques on the scale he did. If he did, it would be like putting all your eggs in one basket. If the skill failed, he would be all out of chakra and be killed if he wasn't edo. It is not a smart way to fight at all. If Madara did not have infinite chakra, I don’t think he would have done those techniques on the scale he did in a normal battle.

This also makes me believe the skills Madara was doing that were Hashirama’s were also not as strong. Of course we do not know how many liters Hashirama could hold, but would the fight with Hiruzen be a good indicator? I’m really not sure on this one. Orochimaru’s “perfected” edo tensei is a pretty controversial topic but in the fight, Orochimaru had no choice but to control them. They would not have fought against their student. The other thing is the space they had to fight.

It was in this.

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Hashirama couldn’t have done the jutsus to such a scale in that confined space. Basically what I’m getting at is, Was Hashirama as strong as the techniques Madara shown, or was he much weaker?

If all the above is true it would conclude Edo Madara >>>>>>>>>Hashirama>=EMS Madara.
It would also say Hizuren could be > hashirama


What are your thoughts? Please don’t post if you have nothing to say, and are just trying to get your post count up. I really want a serious discussion. xd

 

[-immortal-]

teh are just old bitches

 

[Joten Uchiha]

At the end of the day no jutsu will ever be as good as the person who created it in the first place. That being said Madara can have infinite chakra and throw the Wood release around all he want's, he'll still never be as good with it as Hashi was.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

By feats Hashirama beat Madara, that's all we know for now. Hiruzen beating Hashi is mostly fanboys fanboying. It would never happen. Hiruzen in his prime beating Hashi is hype until we see him fight.

 

[Twin Steps]

At the end of the day no jutsu will ever be as good as the person who created it in the first place. That being said Madara can have infinite chakra and throw the Wood release around all he want's, he'll still never be as good with it as Hashi was.

This

 

[Hipster Madara]

At the end of the day no jutsu will ever be as good as the person who created it in the first place. That being said Madara can have infinite chakra and throw the Wood release around all he want's, he'll still never be as good with it as Hashi was.

Not true at all. Look at edo tensei.

OT: I think he does know. Didn't he say himself he has infinite chakra?

 

[Cocytus]

i think it´s not only a question of having the chakra for a jutsu but also how to controll it. You could have all the chakra of the world and it would be of no use to you when you don´t know how to use it. As i see it, the edos can only perform jutsu the mastered when they were alive. It´s not that simple that you just pump infinite chakra in a jutsu you mastered and it becomes bigger and stronger. The meteor for example was in my opinion the biggest madara could do when he was alive, he may has infinite chakra for all his jutsu, but not infinite control over it. Folloing your logic above gari would be able to just produce an explosion so large that the whole army dies at once. If such was true, element control would be much easier than it is shown, it´s was said that it takes one years to master one chakra nature, so if your 1st theory was true, all you had to to was to learn one elementary jutsu and pump all your chakra into it at once and it becomes huge. That´s not happening since you need control over your chakra to execute high level jutsu

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

Not true at all. Look at edo tensei.

OT: I think he does know. Didn't he say himself he has infinite chakra?

He did. I'm just wondering what infinite really is. If it truly is infinite in all sense of the word, Madara being his cocky self would have done the techniques on a much higher scale then what he has shown right? Since he didn't I don't feel his reserves are truly infinite. How much he can have at one time is finite, but he can do something infinite times.

 

[Aenigma]

Hm that's a good thought, about how much chakra he is actually using. It's definitely what I'd do in that situation. But surely Madara would have done much more damage by now if he could jus make his attacks bigger with more chakra?

I'm pretty sure it was said Madara did have pretty good chakra levels when he was alive, but obviously not as much as edo form. I think both of them (Mada and Hashi) must have had some crazy chakra to fight on the level they did, but neither could be infinite. Considering what you've said, this chakra conservation was probably more important than we think (in their final battle). But don't Senju's just generally have better chakra...as they're supposed to have the SO6P body (maybe I'm wrong).

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

i think it´s not only a question of having the chakra for a jutsu but also how to controll it. You could have all the chakra of the world and it would be of no use to you when you don´t know how to use it. As i see it, the edos can only perform jutsu the mastered when they were alive. It´s not that simple that you just pump infinite chakra in a jutsu you mastered and it becomes bigger and stronger. The meteor for example was in my opinion the biggest madara could do when he was alive, he may has infinite chakra for all his jutsu, but not infinite control over it. Folloing your logic above gari would be able to just produce an explosion so large that the whole army dies at once. If such was true, element control would be much easier than it is shown, it´s was said that it takes one years to master one chakra nature, so if your 1st theory was true, all you had to to was to learn one elementary jutsu and pump all your chakra into it at once and it becomes huge. That´s not happening since you need control over your chakra to execute high level jutsu

First, thanks for taking the post seriously. Second, you brought up something I did not think about. Well you control jutsu with chakra right? In the beginning of Naruto, we were shown chakra control. Naruto would always put out too much but he would still do the jutsu. He just wasted a lot. If you wanted to perform a jutsu at a much larger scale you would have to have more control so you can use the chakra remaining to pump up the jutsu per say. If you truly had infinite chakra, you could use as much chakra as you want to perform as big of a jutsu as possible without having to worry about how much chakra is needed to control it. That's how I interpret it anyways. Could be wrong.

 

[KamuiShiryu]

By feats Hashirama beat Madara, that's all we know for now. Hiruzen beating Hashi is mostly fanboys fanboying. It would never happen. Hiruzen in his prime beating Hashi is hype until we see him fight.

it would never happen but it did well not beat but seal him off lol

 

[KingHashirama]

He has infinte chakra... but their is a limit to his chakrapool.. that he can do a specific jutsu with.. With unlimited chakra he actually got on Hashirama's level chakra wise.

 

[Transcendence]

What you said about the 110 % thing isn't true. The way I see it, he has infinite chakra reserves under Edo Tensei. So, he can use his jutsu's as much as he wants but he still has the chakra capacity that he had when he was alive, not having a larger capacity now that he can constantly replenish it. He can constantly spam the Meteor technique but at 100 % Chakra use is the largest it is going to get.

 

[7th Biggest OP Fan]

He has infinte chakra... but their is a limit to his chakrapool.. that he can do a specific jutsu with.. With unlimited chakra he actually got on Hashirama's level chakra wise.

Eh...wishful thinking for your last statement. We have no proof to show or deny Hashirama has larger chakra pools then edo Madara. We do have evidence that it was weaker then him with the fight with the 3rd, but like I said before, the area where they were fighting hindered Hashirama's full potential. Because of these inconsistencies, we have flame wars saying x is better then y and viversa, and we don't know what is the truth without asking Kishi himself. All we have is a general consensus formed by opinions of others and that being the closest to being the truth.