Fights[Outcome] that are questionable in terms of skill and power.
1. Hanzo Vs Samurai Guy [Hanzo defeated the 3 sanins...]
2. Danzo Vs Sasuke [10 izanagi(s) was used wastefully, very questionable!][main character cannot die no jutsu!]
3. Neji Vs Kidomaru [sure]
4. Naruto Vs Pein [the rasengan vs rinne tensei part...]
Well I'm just gonna take this opportunity here if ya don't mind...
Introduction
Here we have Rock Lee vs Gaara. This was an extraordinary fight, one of anime's best for many. However, it's obvious the amazing factor of this fight came from Rock Lee. Gaara had his moments, but this wasn't one of them. In fact, in my opinion, Rock Lee should've won... I mean he REALLY should've won. Allow me to show that Gaara's win was due to Plot-No-Jutsu. And do read... it should be entertaining!
I know this technically isn't PNJ, but it's worth mentioning. There were 20 contestants. TWENTY OF THEM. What are the chances then, of the singular Taijutsu using Ninja to go up against a Jinchuriki who had murdered several Jonin level and less ninja in his time, as well as never being TOUCHED in his life. MC Hammer was his role model.
Gaara was literally the absolute worst possible foe for Rock Lee. Sure, Gaara's undoubtedly difficult for anyone else... but let's be real. If Rock Lee went up against ANY other of the other 18 contestants, it would've been a certain victory. Rock Lee had to go up against the a Jinchuriki who's fighting style happened to be the perfect counter against his own. In essence, you had Rock Lee not only going up against an extremely skilled/talented/powerful opponent, but also someone who has a perfect fighting style for countering Lee's, that none of the Ninja's had. Really Kishimoto?
2. Plot-Style: Impossible-Clone-Creation Jutsu!
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We know that during the fight, Rock Lee's original state isn't enough for the bad-luck-match-up. So he turns up. Off goes his weights, on goes his speed. At this point, people eyes can't keep up with Rock Lee's speed... and neither can Gaara's sand.
With a sudden burst of incredible speed, Rock Lee blitzes Gaara, knocking him into the air. While kicking him up, we know Rock Lee winces for moment, and in that moment Gaara creates a clone. Rock unknowingly then proceeds to Primary Lotus the clone instead, sparing Gaara and putting Lee in a state of needed recovery.
Now this just doesn't sit well with me, and my friend common sense agrees. Let me list why:
A) LOOK AT THE SCAN. THE DUDES SAND IS BEHIND HIM! HOW DOES HE MAKE A CLONE! Now, some may make the excuse that it came from his sand armor. As silly as that sounds, let's assume that.
Frankly, it doesn't matter even if he did have sand, because B) HE'S GETTING FREAKING UPPERCUT REPEATEDLY WITH A MULTITUDE OF FEET. Looking at the scans and anime, he's not even done flinching before the next kick connects. How then does he make a clone?
No more than you can do origami and MMA at the same time, should Gaara be able to create a clone of meager sand while getting kicked in less than a second intervals. Gaara obviously would've needed some of the sand to get him back on the ground anyway. So we're supposed to believe that in less than 1 second, Gaara flinched and recovered from a gravity-defying kicks, molded chakra (which mind you is being used to try to catch up his sand under him), calculate and remove enough sand to make a clone and enough to take him to the ground, actually remove himself, replace himself exactly with a clone, and descend out of Rock Lee's sight. Such would be an impressive feat for the likes of Shikamaru, Minato, and Sauske. How the heck could GAARA- no, GENIN GAARA do such a thing? Plot chakra, that's how.
3. Plot-style: I-Don't-Die-When-I-Should-Ha-Ha
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After this, Rock Lee, being wiped, resorts to his gates, fighting in the 4th, and ending with the 5th. 3-Tamoe Shargian/Byakugan were having trouble / couldn't keep up or see him. Kakashi even for goodness' sake. This sort of speed leaves the world of ninja and reaches that of superhero. I mean this is crazy. Not just the speed but the utter raw strength such gates provide... it's amazing.. awing... Jonin level, and when used to it's full potential, far above. This Lee is a few seconds made the no-weights Lee seem childlike. Yet base Lee with a simple hard punch could break a large part of Gaara's sand armor off. Now, if that's the case, explain to me HOW THE HECK A BAJILLION PUNCHES WITHIN THE MATTER OF A FEW SECONDS DELIVERED WITH POWER THAT WOULD MAKE FALCON PROUD, ENHANCED BY THE SPEED OF HIS MOVEMENT, NOT DESTROY ANY SHRED OF ARMOR!
I mean let's be reasonable. Rock Lee evidently became many times stronger than normal. Not 10. Not 20. Not 30. I mean, to be frank, I don't know the number... but I don't think saying +50 times normal power would be a stretch. Maybe ~100. He went from an easily traceable upper kick combo of a few hits to an unseeable frenzy of complete and utter destructive blows happening multiple times- no -many- times every second with an exponential strength growth tossed in, mixed with, lastly, the inherent direct impact boost anything will gain with additional speed applied. This, my friends, is what we refer to as "swag". Yet, with a plot-shield stronger than his sand one, Gaara protects himself almost if not completely from every blow, when just ONE of those punches would end the fights for any other contestant. At best 2 or 3. It doesn't any sense that a base mode punch can destroy a large portion, and 4th gate repeated blows do less damage to his armor, and don't even damage Gaara himself.
And let's not forget that last blow. A 5th gate punch, with all his strength, direct, point-plank, explosive power, to an already wrecked damage sand armor. HOW DID THAT NOT KILL HIM? I'd rather hit that concrete that get hit by that fist. Heck, the concrete would be several times preferable to the repeated 4th gate blows, even individually. That one punch was enough to destroy any illogical armor Gaara still had and, to be frank, eradicate him then and there, BEFORE EVEN HITTING THE GROUND. That punch was far more harmful than some still concrete.
Lastly, even if he did survive all that without a scratch to his body, having a little bit of sand under him shouldn't save him from anything- at least not logically. We already know his sand couldn't keep up, so it literally could just become sand- it doesn't have time to catch him, cushion him, or in any way be manipulated. It's solely just a few pounds of sand laying behind him without time to do anything useful. Yet, of course, Gaara's plot-shield wasn't pierced.
Conclusion
So we know at the end of all this, Gaara's plot-shield prevails, and sadly Rock Lee (who was leagues ahead of the other Genin) lost then and there. Due to a horrid match-up, impossible clone jutsu use, and Gaara gaining an apparent temporary invulnerability, Rock Lee lost what I believe he should've won. Oh well.
Well I'm just gonna take this opportunity here if ya don't mind...
Introduction
Here we have Rock Lee vs Gaara. This was an extraordinary fight, one of anime's best for many. However, it's obvious the amazing factor of this fight came from Rock Lee. Gaara had his moments, but this wasn't one of them. In fact, in my opinion, Rock Lee should've won... I mean he REALLY should've won. Allow me to show that Gaara's win was due to Plot-No-Jutsu. And do read... it should be entertaining!
I know this technically isn't PNJ, but it's worth mentioning. There were 20 contestants. TWENTY OF THEM. What are the chances then, of the singular Taijutsu using Ninja to go up against a Jinchuriki who had murdered several Jonin level and less ninja in his time, as well as never being TOUCHED in his life. MC Hammer was his role model.
Gaara was literally the absolute worst possible foe for Rock Lee. Sure, Gaara's undoubtedly difficult for anyone else... but let's be real. If Rock Lee went up against ANY other of the other 18 contestants, it would've been a certain victory. Rock Lee had to go up against the a Jinchuriki who's fighting style happened to be the perfect counter against his own. In essence, you had Rock Lee not only going up against an extremely skilled/talented/powerful opponent, but also someone who has a perfect fighting style for countering Lee's, that none of the Ninja's had. Really Kishimoto?
2. Plot-Style: Impossible-Clone-Creation Jutsu!
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We know that during the fight, Rock Lee's original state isn't enough for the bad-luck-match-up. So he turns up. Off goes his weights, on goes his speed. At this point, people eyes can't keep up with Rock Lee's speed... and neither can Gaara's sand.
With a sudden burst of incredible speed, Rock Lee blitzes Gaara, knocking him into the air. While kicking him up, we know Rock Lee winces for moment, and in that moment Gaara creates a clone. Rock unknowingly then proceeds to Primary Lotus the clone instead, sparing Gaara and putting Lee in a state of needed recovery.
Now this just doesn't sit well with me, and my friend common sense agrees. Let me list why:
A) LOOK AT THE SCAN. THE DUDES SAND IS BEHIND HIM! HOW DOES HE MAKE A CLONE! Now, some may make the excuse that it came from his sand armor. As silly as that sounds, let's assume that.
Frankly, it doesn't matter even if he did have sand, because B) HE'S GETTING FREAKING UPPERCUT REPEATEDLY WITH A MULTITUDE OF FEET. Looking at the scans and anime, he's not even done flinching before the next kick connects. How then does he make a clone?
No more than you can do origami and MMA at the same time, should Gaara be able to create a clone of meager sand while getting kicked in less than a second intervals. Gaara obviously would've needed some of the sand to get him back on the ground anyway. So we're supposed to believe that in less than 1 second, Gaara flinched and recovered from a gravity-defying kicks, molded chakra (which mind you is being used to try to catch up his sand under him), calculate and remove enough sand to make a clone and enough to take him to the ground, actually remove himself, replace himself exactly with a clone, and descend out of Rock Lee's sight. Such would be an impressive feat for the likes of Shikamaru, Minato, and Sauske. How the heck could GAARA- no, GENIN GAARA do such a thing? Plot chakra, that's how.
3. Plot-style: I-Don't-Die-When-I-Should-Ha-Ha
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After this, Rock Lee, being wiped, resorts to his gates, fighting in the 4th, and ending with the 5th. 3-Tamoe Shargian/Byakugan were having trouble / couldn't keep up or see him. Kakashi even for goodness' sake. This sort of speed leaves the world of ninja and reaches that of superhero. I mean this is crazy. Not just the speed but the utter raw strength such gates provide... it's amazing.. awing... Jonin level, and when used to it's full potential, far above. This Lee is a few seconds made the no-weights Lee seem childlike. Yet base Lee with a simple hard punch could break a large part of Gaara's sand armor off. Now, if that's the case, explain to me HOW THE HECK A BAJILLION PUNCHES WITHIN THE MATTER OF A FEW SECONDS DELIVERED WITH POWER THAT WOULD MAKE FALCON PROUD, ENHANCED BY THE SPEED OF HIS MOVEMENT, NOT DESTROY ANY SHRED OF ARMOR!
I mean let's be reasonable. Rock Lee evidently became many times stronger than normal. Not 10. Not 20. Not 30. I mean, to be frank, I don't know the number... but I don't think saying +50 times normal power would be a stretch. Maybe ~100. He went from an easily traceable upper kick combo of a few hits to an unseeable frenzy of complete and utter destructive blows happening multiple times- no -many- times every second with an exponential strength growth tossed in, mixed with, lastly, the inherent direct impact boost anything will gain with additional speed applied. This, my friends, is what we refer to as "swag". Yet, with a plot-shield stronger than his sand one, Gaara protects himself almost if not completely from every blow, when just ONE of those punches would end the fights for any other contestant. At best 2 or 3. It doesn't any sense that a base mode punch can destroy a large portion, and 4th gate repeated blows do less damage to his armor, and don't even damage Gaara himself.
And let's not forget that last blow. A 5th gate punch, with all his strength, direct, point-plank, explosive power, to an already wrecked damage sand armor. HOW DID THAT NOT KILL HIM? I'd rather hit that concrete that get hit by that fist. Heck, the concrete would be several times preferable to the repeated 4th gate blows, even individually. That one punch was enough to destroy any illogical armor Gaara still had and, to be frank, eradicate him then and there, BEFORE EVEN HITTING THE GROUND. That punch was far more harmful than some still concrete.
Lastly, even if he did survive all that without a scratch to his body, having a little bit of sand under him shouldn't save him from anything- at least not logically. We already know his sand couldn't keep up, so it literally could just become sand- it doesn't have time to catch him, cushion him, or in any way be manipulated. It's solely just a few pounds of sand laying behind him without time to do anything useful. Yet, of course, Gaara's plot-shield wasn't pierced.
Conclusion
So we know at the end of all this, Gaara's plot-shield prevails, and sadly Rock Lee (who was leagues ahead of the other Genin) lost then and there. Due to a horrid match-up, impossible clone jutsu use, and Gaara gaining an apparent temporary invulnerability, Rock Lee lost what I believe he should've won. Oh well.
1.untill i see the whole fight i refuse to believe hanzo beat all of them at full power and chakra.maybe they were fighting before and were exhausted...
2.danzo couldnt avoid most of sasuke`s attacks so i wouldnt call his izanagi attempts wasteful
3.willpower>intelligence
Obito not dying after getting hit point blank with Minato's Rasengan. Not only did it not kill him, it just injured his arm, even though the guy's spine was seemingly caved in. Also, to add to that, Obtio didn't even expect it so he had no way to brace for it.
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I'd be fine if he was at least KO'd but he walked it off like it was a simple justu.
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This and Naruto not using Gamabunta during the valley of the end pisses me off.
Only after Naruto stopped a giant snake from eating him and told him to stop being a *****. I think he did go all out considering he thought orochimaru was going to kill him, Naruto was KO'd, and Sakura was being Sakura.
i was going to say garra vs dosu or garras leader vs the guy that coufed alot. That fight made no sense , it was potrayed that the guy died but yet we see him directing the fights for the chunnin exams
but lee vs garra i the most BS plot no jutsu fight ever. I remember being mad as a kid that lee loss when he really should have won.
Only after Naruto stopped a giant snake from eating him and told him to stop being a *****. I think he did go all out considering he thought orochimaru was going to kill him, Naruto was KO'd, and Sakura was being Sakura.
i was going to say garra vs dosu or garras leader vs the guy that coufed alot. That fight made no sense , it was potrayed that the guy died but yet we see him directing the fights for the chunnin exams
but lee vs garra i the most BS plot no jutsu fight ever. I remember being mad as a kid that lee loss when he really should have won.
Thanks haha. Yeah it really was though, Rock Lee was at Jonin level at that point. If you liked that however, you may want to take a look at what I'm posting here below. Spoiler for off-topicness
Hi all. This is rally a thread with several parts to it. The purpose it to show what Rock Lee is truly worth. I don't know, maybe Kishimoto has a personal problem with him. The fact is that a majority of the characters in Naruto are held back by plot. But I believe Rock Lee suffere's from this the most. Just open up a spoiler to rad my commentary on the particular issue. Some of these are somewhat lengthy, but I'm a writer- reads should entertaining. I'd say the last one is the most important
Base Speed
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Forget not Centipede Brows' speed either! While his weights were STILL ON, he managed to move fast enough to disappear so that they couldn't see him blitz behind him. During the fight against Gaara, he was moving so fast the untrained watchers couldn't see it. In fact, Kakashi was struggling while using his 3-tomoe-Sharingan. Gaara's sand couldn't keep it. Various feats from kicking Gaara all the way up to the air before his sand can even get close, to running at him, kicking him from behind, sand barely blocking it and immediately moving back in front of Gaara and striking again, all before Gaara can even turn around. This was all only without weights.
It could be argued that the Handsome Devil of the Hidden Leaf Village is faster than, or at least can hang with, Madara's speed simply without weights.
Base Strength and Power
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When was the last time you tried pulling out a thick tree root from packed dirt? I believe this to be a thoroughly underrated feat. One must stick his hand through the packed dirt, grab the root, pull it out from under packed dirt, and then lift it in the air [notably all in 1 second to block an attack, that reaction speed].
While battling Madara in Part 2, he completely BISECTED Madara with one kick. Rock Lee has sent countless enemies flying, has broken countless things, and has shown his strength in countless ways. To to move so fast and strong to cut one in half before they can even fly off is a whole nother level of power. Yes, he had a cloak on- but he wasn't using any of his 5+ gates & he was wearing weights.
Speaking of weights, I hope we haven't forgotten their weight. If you have, look up the scan/episode when he took them off. The freaking put craters in the ground and cause a mini-earthquake. Talk about heavy yo. It would be a utter horror to get kicked while someone is wearing those weights- or even worse when they're not! Logically any well placed kick should have no problem lobbing a head off, or a game-ending equivalent.
Finally, I want to discuss how his speed directly impacts his strength. If a fist pats you gently, vs if that same fist was thrown at you with evil intention- that's memorable difference there. It's the reason Flash from DC is a planet buster, for at his speed he can deliver blows that strong. Obviously Rock Lee is far from that speed, but the point remains. His speed is a direct influence to his power. And with his speed, that's a reason to be afraid- very afraid.
Gates
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However, Bushy Brows has the 8 gates. The amount of speed had here is amazing. The literal speed and power contained by those gates is completely amazing. The only reason Gaara is alive to this day is pure plot. At that speed and strength, 5th gate Rock Lee was an a whole 'nother level compared to his peers. However, sadly enough, since then Kishimoto has downgraded Lee on several levels, from his base speed, to skill development, to everything, simply because he was introduced too OP.
Anyhow, let's be serious. Once even the 4th (possibly 3rd) gate is used, Konoha's Beautiful Green Wild Beast's speed is off the charts, above Madara's. He was already striking again before physics could fully take effect. Crazy speed.
Druken Fist
I'm showing 2 cause I liked both
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And that's not all. Forget not the Druken Fist. It's level of unpredictable destruction is absolutely mind-blowing. When a single drop needed Guy and Neji to restrain Centipede Brows, and a small bottle allowed him (with weights on and no gates) to hang with Kimimaro, it's a little scary to imagine the potential the technique has. Combining it with his other power ups (gates, no weights) would be horrifically awesome... especially if he had more than a small bottle...
Rock Lee's development and training methods
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Ok, now this need some discussing. Let's take a look at everyone's development:
Shino: Never trained too seriously, but is certainly underestimated. A very smart ninja. His insects of course adapt over time, so who knows all they are immune to at this point. In addition, he defeated several Juubi mini-clones with the giant-bug-eating-out-from-the-inside-horor-movie technique. Ok, good dvelopment, aout at his peak. Choji: One of the more skilled. He has now mastered butterfly mode, and can combine it with his giant state. Well done Choji. Sakura: Super strength, super healing, super medic. Extraordinary. Hinata: She has become a mush more accomplished Hyuuga, and even has those lion/tiger fists thingies. Neji: RIP, you really never should've died ._.. Anyhow, sniffle, Neji became a Jonin, and a Hyuga master. A mental genuis, and physical prodigy: the Hyuga's best in my opinion. Kiba: His 3-headed dog fang-over-fang was pretty sick and effective. No lie. Shikamaru: Analytical genius, everyone knows that. In addition however, his shadow possession has advanced quite a bit. It now can do all sorts of this from stabbing through to holding down- much more than just possessing, it can kill. Impressive Shikamaru. Impressive. Combined with his genuis, a very dangerous tool. Tenten: Even more weapons/mastery. She freakin' even got a weapon of the Sage. She's very underrated and very skilled, but right about capped out. Still very good though. Ino: Her mind techs have been enhanced various ways, she is quite a good support now. If it wasn't for her out main character would be dead right now.
Now look at that fine group of Shinobi. While thinking of them, understand this. They were all born as natural ninjas, and progressed naturally, dare I even save superbly.
Now look at the Handsome Devil of the Hidden Leaf Village. He was born without a special clan. Without the ability the use nin or genjutsu. He was a normal little boy in the ninja world. He basically remained such until he was recruited by Guy. This was at 12. When we come across him again (vs Gaara) he is 13. One year has passed. One freaking year. In the body of an underdeveloped 12-13 year old, Rock Lee, in 1 year and maybe some months, has gone from literally an ordinary boy to a force any ninja should reckon with. His speed became absolutely ridiculous, his strength being just as stunning. He could move fast enough to where Sauske literally knew what gonna happen and COULDN'T REACT, and pull the root of a giant tree out of the ground in a fraction of a second to block an attack. This was all with base speed, with weights. And we all know the pwnage he gave to Gaara. When he loses those weights... when he goes 1/2/3/4/5 gates... Lee became by far the most dangerous within the space of ONE YEAR.
Now from 13 to now, when he is 17, The time he has had to train is amazeballs!
We all know Rock Lee's mindset and training philosophy. He would often train literally the whole day, arduously. Under Guy's teaching, in one year he gained immense speed, immense strength, and 5 gates with an underdeveloped pre-pubescent body. Now he has had about 4 more years, and a developed body. Seeing how he trains all day long, and his techniques are all taijutsu, his power should've increased exponentially! There is no reason for him to be the same, or as it appears, weaker than he used to be. This leads me but to one conclusion. Rock Lee has been holding back the whole time u_u
In reality, at the rate he was improving and now with a better body, Rock Lee should have 6-8 gates available just like guy. Heck, showing how his sheer will and determination has allowed him to survive and go through all sorts of maladies, within 4 years he should be able to easily use the 8th gate, no death- just an medic right away. There's no reason everyone else got better, and then the one who trains the hardest and who's techs literally get stronger as he physically develops should stay the same/apparently get weaker.
The war in general is a series of questionable/improbable/impossible/unreal/illogical wins and victories one after the other. I highly doubt Madara will be spared the same fate, especially as it's getting exponentially worse.
Huh I didn't know you had to use genjutsu to be considered going all out. I thought maybe Sasuke was going all out with attacks instead of trying to deceive Oro.
Huh I didn't know you had to use genjutsu to be considered going all out. I thought maybe Sasuke was going all out with attacks instead of trying to deceive Oro.
