Question about SM and Cursed Seal

[PrinceMyshkin]

Does anyone udnerstand the relationship between sage jutsu and the cursed seal? I mean I know that Jyugo goes berserk because his clan is somehow able to harness nature's energy. But the cursed seal is just using Oro's chakra in someone else's body, but it somehow allows the user to also gain a power gain in CM that seems to mirror Jyugo's harnessing nature energy? What am I missing here? Is sage mode the inspiration for Oro giving others his chakra to imitate the power gain of sage jutsu users? Or is sage jutsu somehow involved in the cursed seal in a way which I've missed?



Another thing I wonder about is whether Oro's host's body determines his natural chakra levels. I am curious about this because of this page:

Spoiler

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I always thought that Oro was only interested in Sasuke, because not only would he have the Sharingan, but also an Uchiha body which would allow him to completely master it. Now I also wonder whether or not Sasuke's stamina was also a factor. Although he has less stamina than Naruto, perhaps Sasuke has a large enough chakra supply to allow Oro to use sage mode more effectively than other host candidates.

 

[Cursed Prince]

Juggo is senju. Yall laugh at me now while you can. And i dont really think so

 

[Kenpai]

Chakra and stamina goes hand in hand in Naruto. So I think you have a point. Changing bodies until you get a physically and mentally strong host I guess helps with that also.

Edit: He only wanted the Uchiha body because it will be easier to copy (or learn) every justu.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Ok. Juugo's clan have the ability to passively absorb Narure Energy, which allows them to transform and gain power. Oro took some of Juugo's DNA to allow himself to have this ability. However, he could only use it to create Curse Mark. By sealing some of the Nature Energy he gathers into the Curse Mark, it replicates the Clan's ability to transform in a.slightly weaker way.

The connection between Sage Mode and Curse Mark is both access Nature Energy.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Ok. Juugo's clan have the ability to passively absorb Narure Energy, which allows them to transform and gain power. Oro took some of Juugo's DNA to allow himself to have this ability. However, he could only use it to create Curse Mark. By sealing some of the Nature Energy he gathers into the Curse Mark, which replicates the Clan's ability to transform.

So is the Curse mark all nature energy or also a bit of Oro's chakra? That's pretty much my only question though, because that was such a spot on answer

 

[Punk Hazard]

So is the Curse mark all nature energy or also a bit of Oro's chakra? That's pretty much my only question though, because that was such a spot on answer

Remember, Nature Energy doesn't substitute for chakra, but enchances it in certain ways. Yes, Curse Mark has Oro chakra.

 

[Sharingdork]

The whole "Sage Mode, Curse Seal" relationship, which this thread is about, is a little different than you think.

Jugo's clan has the ability to naturally gather Senjutsu chakra, but are unable to utilize it correctly. They waver between Sage Mode and turning into one of the giant statues, the clan being able to turn into "monsters" beacuse of the natural energy, which enhances their strength (this is neither perfect Sage Mode like either Naruto or Jiraiya use, and nor is it turning to stone, but it is half turning into creatures which the statues are based off (there are multiple Sage Modes), so it's a crude Sage Mode with being somewhat animal-ized).

Orochimaru took some of Jugo's DNA and created a special fuuinjutsu (seal technique), called juinjutsu (curse seal technique), which allowed him to inject someone with Jugo's clan's DNA, allowing them to access the abilities of his clan (stated above), albeit to a lesser extent. Meaning that the Curse Seal isn't Oro's chakra.

Now, perfect Sage Mode differs from Jugo's clan's abilities in that while Jugo's clan constantly absorbs natures energy in an uncontrolable fashion, which causes them to go beserk as they can't control how they're absorbing and using natural energy, a Sage Mode user is able to control his intake of senjutsu chakra, and is then able to control how they use it. Of course, Sage Mode users must have intense chakra levels so the senjutsu chakra doesn't take over their bodies, a drawback Jugo's clan doesn't have as their body naturally absorbs senjutsu chakra, and as such has the capability to hold senjutsu chakra.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

The whole "Sage Mode, Curse Seal" relationship, which this thread is about, is a little different than you think.

Jugo's clan has the ability to naturally gather Senjutsu chakra, but are unable to utilize it correctly. They waver between Sage Mode and turning into one of the giant statues, the clan being able to turn into "monsters" beacuse of the natural energy, which enhances their strength (this is neither perfect Sage Mode like either Naruto or Jiraiya use, and nor is it turning to stone, but it is half turning into creatures which the statues are based off (there are multiple Sage Modes), so it's a crude Sage Mode with being somewhat animal-ized).

Orochimaru took some of Jugo's DNA and created a special fuuinjutsu (seal technique), called juinjutsu (curse seal technique), which allowed him to inject someone with Jugo's clan's DNA, allowing them to access the abilities of his clan (stated above), albeit to a lesser extent. Meaning that the Curse Seal isn't Oro's chakra.

Now, perfect Sage Mode differs from Jugo's clan's abilities in that while Jugo's clan constantly absorbs natures energy in an uncontrolable fashion, which causes them to go beserk as they can't control how they're absorbing and using natural energy, a Sage Mode user is able to control his intake of senjutsu chakra, and is then able to control how they use it. Of course, Sage Mode users must have intense chakra levels so the senjutsu chakra doesn't take over their bodies, a drawback Jugo's clan doesn't have as their body naturally absorbs senjutsu chakra, and as such has the capability to hold senjutsu chakra.

wow another spot on post. You're right I was overlooking the genetic aspect of Jyugo's clan's ability. However, I believe that the Cursed seal must be a combination of Jyugo's dna to allow them to draw on senjutsu chakra as well as Oro's chakra. We know it has Oro's chakra because Sasuke used Anko's cursed seal to resurrect Oro by drawing his chakra out of her seal (as well as it being mentioned many times throughout the manga)... I guess the relevant part is whether his chakra is involved in the power increase or if it is solely Jyugo's ability...

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

ooooooooo I think I got it.

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So if Oro was able to enter sage mode, but his body was what was holding him back from using it practically:

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then Oro could enter sage mode and pour his Senjutsu chakra into the cursed seal recipient. Thinking about it being natural energy or Oro's chakra was the wrong way of looking at it. It was both Oro's chakra AND nature energy, since the energy he drew from nature is how he created his senjutsu chakra which he put in the seal. That explains how he was able to pour so much chakra into so many sound ninja, because he was just drawing it straight from nature...

 

[Sasuke2]

Read the article on narutowiki... but to save u the effort:
-Sage Mode is a state one can learn once he/she masters the control and balance over natural energy
-Jugo Clan's kekkei genkai/ability allows them to absorb natural energy passively, but since they were never trained at the arts of senjutsu, the chakra is unbalanced, but instead of turning into a stone statue, they mutate "thanks" to a special enzyme in their bodies... their "mutations" are called "sage transformation" but aren't true Sage Mode since they don't have any control over it nor can use senjutsu techniques.
-Cursed Seals are a lesser version of the above's KKG in form of a seal + Orochimaru's chakra used to corrupt the recipients and take over their bodies if they use it too much and/or a trump card if his body is ever destroyed, he can be revived.

So Cursed Seal gives all the physical enhancements of Sage Mode (stamina, durability, speed, strength, stronger techniques) + a mutation, but Sasuke for example didn't have any control over the process of absorbing the natural energies and had no experience in using senjutsu, thus "Frog Kata" or something similar wouldn't be possible.