Q about death reaper seal!!!

[phantomlord22]

The answer probably might be this:

We saw that Hiruzen could not grab all of Orochimaru's soul and instead took a part of it (corresponding to his hands) and sealed it with himself in the god of death's stomach. Then Orochimaru was left without the use of his hands, but still very much alive. And later on he got the use of his hands back as well after he took on a new body.

So, it might be possible that Sandaime similarly split his soul into the three clones and cleverly tricked the god to allow three sealings in lieu of one soul. He might have known about this loophole since he, after all, was the professor and knew all there was to know of the Konoha ninjutsus.

If not this then I have no better explanation.

Out for now.

he couldn't take oro soul coz he was dieing by the sword and he was in pain... that's the why he couldn't finish the jutsu

what your are saying is the best answer to consider but this jutsu is not this way... is you can use it this way it will be like gedo-mazo dragon jutsu or something... but it's a jutsu that you can seal just one soul and the cost is your life and you have only one life

 

[phantomlord22]

i dont believe the death reaper takes the users soul until after the jutsu (death reaper seal not shadow clone) jutsu has ended, since he was still using it on orochimaru, the reaper hadnt consumed his soul yet

like I said before, the jutsu was done even before he grab oro... you know why??? coz the soul of shodai & nindaime was seal already!!!

 

[Rohasu]

okay we all know the one casting this jutsu must use his body as a Host for the sacrifice and no way you can handle that...

My Q is :
How the hell Sandaime used it with shadow clone and seald away shodai and nindaime???

If this jutsu works this way you can use it with out getting your self sealed or die (using shadow clones) :sy:

Could be the same case with Minato, i mean he knew shadow clone i think so maybe he used a shadow clone to seal kuramas second half of chakra and still live? and put the other half in naruto. Then pulled a creeper move and stalked naruto all his life

~Note this is not a flame nor a troll post, it's just a theory~

 

[NaruGoku]

One problem you're having is thinking about the clones as having "died." Clones don't die. Also, ur wondering about what experience went back to the Third when the clones disappeared. Well, when he made the 2 clones, his chakra was evenly dispersed into 3 bodies, so each body had 1/3 of the Hokage's chakra. So, when the 1st Hokage and 2nd Hokage were sealed along with the clones, that meant that 2/3 of the Hokage's chakra was sealed, so that's what happened to the Third Hokage when his clones were sealed--he permanently lost 2/3 of his chakra. Also, i believe the technique must be used by one's original body, and when he used his clones in conjunction with the Reaper Death Seal, the Shinigami's hands first went through the original body, then branched out to the clones; so everything was done through the original body anyway. A quick synopsis would look like this: the Reaper Death Seal is conducted through the original body, Sandaime used two clones in conjunction with the Death Seal and therefore 2/3 of his chakra was permanently sealed before he got Orochimaru (that's the "experience" the clones returned to the original--the loss of part of his soul), and then of course he took Orochimaru's hands with the final 1/3 of his soul, thus killing him.

 

[phantomlord22]

i dont believe the death reaper takes the users soul until after the jutsu (death reaper seal not shadow clone) jutsu has ended, since he was still using it on orochimaru, the reaper hadnt consumed his soul yet

sure it takes... that's the why kabuto couldn't summon 1st,2nd,3rd,4th

Could be the same case with Minato, i mean he knew shadow clone i think so maybe he used a shadow clone to seal kuramas second half of chakra and still live? and put the other half in naruto. Then pulled a creeper move and stalked naruto all his life

~Note this is not a flame nor a troll post, it's just a theory~

that is just sick Bro
After All, like you said it's just a theory xd

One problem you're having is thinking about the clones as having "died." Clones don't die. Also, ur wondering about what experience went back to the Third when the clones disappeared. Well, when he made the 2 clones, his chakra was evenly dispersed into 3 bodies, so each body had 1/3 of the Hokage's chakra. So, when the 1st Hokage and 2nd Hokage were sealed along with the clones, that meant that 2/3 of the Hokage's chakra was sealed, so that's what happened to the Third Hokage when his clones were sealed--he permanently lost 2/3 of his chakra. Also, i believe the technique must be used by one's original body, and when he used his clones in conjunction with the Reaper Death Seal, the Shinigami's hands first went through the original body, then branched out to the clones; so everything was done through the original body anyway. A quick synopsis would look like this: the Reaper Death Seal is conducted through the original body, Sandaime used two clones in conjunction with the Death Seal and therefore 2/3 of his chakra was permanently sealed before he got Orochimaru (that's the "experience" the clones returned to the original--the loss of part of his soul), and then of course he took Orochimaru's hands with the final 1/3 of his soul, thus killing him.

you are talking about chakra stuff... you are true if the seal is about to seal chakra but it seals both souls of the target & the user.
you have one soul so you can seal one soul with it...if it's not this way(sure is) you can using the justu with 100 clones and seal 100 person in one shout...
I Don't Think So

 

[NaruGoku]

sure it takes... that's the why kabuto couldn't summon 1st,2nd,3rd,4th




that is just sick Bro
After All, like you said it's just a theory xd




you are talking about chakra stuff... you are true if the seal is about to seal chakra but it seals both souls of the target & the user.
you have one soul so you can seal one soul with it...if it's not this way(sure is) you can using the justu with 100 clones and seal 100 person in one shout...
I Don't Think So

i don't know about 100 seals... but i mean he did do more than 1 so who knows? and yeah, i'm pretty much equating chakra to soul. I mean, it IS chakra that's getting sealed... the soul is spiritual energy right? or spiritual/body energy, and that's what chakra is. you said it seals one soul along with your one and only soul, but clearly you can seal more than one soul with your soul... Sarutobi sealed 3 souls along with his own with his shadow clones, so yeah it may very well be possible to seal 100 if you have enough chakra to make that many clones.
also, because it's clear you can seal more than one soul with yours, i think that gives credence to the chakra=soul idea because he split his chakra into 3 and took 3 people's souls--well, 2 whole souls and Oro's arms. So while it's true we only have one soul, it can clearly be divided up with clones so i don't see how it's different from chakra. If it couldn't be divided up, he could not have taken more than 1 soul, but he did. Also, what do we think about the fact that Oro's arms were taken? Did the "soul" of his arms go away? I think the physical and spiritual energy in his arms--which are required to be able to mold chakra as well as move your arms/hands to form seals--were taken, which is saying his chakra was taken.
So, i could very well be wrong, but this is the way i think about it i cuz i think this makes sense. doesn't mean i'm totally right though.

edit. just one more thing, it's also possible that his clones have nothing to do with his soul and as long as you can make shadow clones, you can take as many souls as possible along with your own being taken. I mean, like i said, it's clear that you can take more than one soul as Sarutobi took almost 3 souls, so now that i'm thinking about it, i'm thinking this is pretty likely too--that you can take down as many people as possible with the shadow clone technique so long as you're willing to give your own soul as payment. so yeah, you can take multiple souls, and even 100 may be possible for someone like Naruto

but, back to the chakra/soul thing, one major oversight is that Tsunade could have healed his arms. How could she possibly have done that if he was missing part of his soul? she couldn't.

 

[Blaze Release]

good job man

but again :
the seal which bunshin did was done coz before they vanished hokages were sealed... so after they vanished the experience of death must returned to Hiruzen by a sudden coz the seal was done...

When the clones dispersed the seals on the clones wouldve transferred to sarutobi. We didnt see this because at that time the original sarutobi's shirt didnt have a hole in it.

I get what you mean, but what you are saying is true if the seal was not complete unless the original one would be dead...BUT it was
coz the reaper needs to seal the soul of the target & Host in the same time

but tow kage were sealed before Hiruen died!!!

I'm not as good as you in explanation
I hope you get My point

Not sure what you are trying to say

 

[-Hades-]

you and your awesome explanation like always My friend...
tanx

but I mean he used Kage bunshin and after they vanished nothing happened to the base(Hiruzen)
I remember kakashi said the time jutsu is released or something happen for kage bunshin(vanishing) all experience will back to the user at a sudden.
but it wasn't like this

good job man

but again :
the seal which bunshin did was done coz before they vanished hokages were sealed... so after they vanished the experience of death must returned to Hiruzen by a sudden coz the seal was done...
I get what you mean, but what you are saying is true if the seal was not complete unless the original one would be dead...BUT it was
coz the reaper needs to seal the soul of the target & Host in the same time

but tow kage were sealed before Hiruen died!!!

I'm not as good as you in explanation
I hope you get My point

I got your point and the answer is very simple. The sealing doesn't end untill the Shinigami takes YOUR soul.
Notice that when Minato uses it.

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He sealed the Kiuby's chakra inside him with the Death Ripper seal and was still able to seal the Rest inside Naruto with the 8 tigrams seal, along with the little chakra he and Kushina had left.

My point is that you only die once the Shinigami takes your soul... untill then you can seal as many persons as you can handle.

Therefore there is no mistake. Sarutobi didn't die once the clones dispersed because he wasn't supposed to.

 

[Kuro Regal]

A shadow clone isn't a "being copy" of one self. Its a disperse of chakra. When the Hokage used to seal tech the tech was channeled through 2 additional copies.

With that being said. You can't have a clone use a tech without you yourself being the target of the back lash. If it has to deal with soul's and such.


Saying a clone can perform a death reaper seal and only the clone gets sealed away, is like saying.

Every clone naruto makes will mean kurama gets multiplied as well.

So no.

 

[phantomlord22]

i don't know about 100 seals... but i mean he did do more than 1 so who knows? and yeah, i'm pretty much equating chakra to soul. I mean, it IS chakra that's getting sealed... the soul is spiritual energy right? or spiritual/body energy, and that's what chakra is. you said it seals one soul along with your one and only soul, but clearly you can seal more than one soul with your soul... Sarutobi sealed 3 souls along with his own with his shadow clones, so yeah it may very well be possible to seal 100 if you have enough chakra to make that many clones.
also, because it's clear you can seal more than one soul with yours, i think that gives credence to the chakra=soul idea because he split his chakra into 3 and took 3 people's souls--well, 2 whole souls and Oro's arms. So while it's true we only have one soul, it can clearly be divided up with clones so i don't see how it's different from chakra. If it couldn't be divided up, he could not have taken more than 1 soul, but he did. Also, what do we think about the fact that Oro's arms were taken? Did the "soul" of his arms go away? I think the physical and spiritual energy in his arms--which are required to be able to mold chakra as well as move your arms/hands to form seals--were taken, which is saying his chakra was taken.
So, i could very well be wrong, but this is the way i think about it i cuz i think this makes sense. doesn't mean i'm totally right though.

edit. just one more thing, it's also possible that his clones have nothing to do with his soul and as long as you can make shadow clones, you can take as many souls as possible along with your own being taken. I mean, like i said, it's clear that you can take more than one soul as Sarutobi took almost 3 souls, so now that i'm thinking about it, i'm thinking this is pretty likely too--that you can take down as many people as possible with the shadow clone technique so long as you're willing to give your own soul as payment. so yeah, you can take multiple souls, and even 100 may be possible for someone like Naruto

but, back to the chakra/soul thing, one major oversight is that Tsunade could have healed his arms. How could she possibly have done that if he was missing part of his soul? she couldn't.

When the clones dispersed the seals on the clones wouldve transferred to sarutobi. We didnt see this because at that time the original sarutobi's shirt didnt have a hole in it.



Not sure what you are trying to say

I got your point and the answer is very simple. The sealing doesn't end untill the Shinigami takes YOUR soul.
Notice that when Minato uses it.

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He sealed the Kiuby's chakra inside him with the Death Ripper seal and was still able to seal the Rest inside Naruto with the 8 tigrams seal, along with the little chakra he and Kushina had left.

My point is that you only die once the Shinigami takes your soul... untill then you can seal as many persons as you can handle.

Therefore there is no mistake. Sarutobi didn't die once the clones dispersed because he wasn't supposed to.

if user can seal more than one soul by using kage bunshin or what ever then my Q is done and also meaning less...

but here is an explanation from DB which blaze release has posted in this thread

Corpse Demon Consuming Seal (屍鬼封尽, Shiki Fuujin)
Fuuinjutsu, S-rank, Offensive, Close range (0-5m)
User: Sandaime Hokage

Giving up one's own life to the God of Death, one can seal the soul of one's sworn enemy forever!!

This ultimate Fuuinjutsu can, by sacrificing one's own life, seal the target's soul for all eternity. Once, the Yondaime Hokage used this jutsu to seal the Kyuubi no Youko, loosing his own life. Because of this technique so secret, even a shinobi like Orochimaru didn't know about, the late Sandaime is now entombed in eternal darkness, seemingly never to see the sunlight again...

For those who've seen this shape, no technique exists to allow them to escape the Realm of the Dead

Second Databook, page 228

what I'm saying is :
1. the jutsu supposed to seal one soul costing your own soul in exchange
2. forget the real sandaime(I mean skip him for a second), he cast the jutsu but the two clone did seal the tow kages in their own,they had done the seal and the soul of the kages were gone(for those who said clone just were decoy like a tool so the real user could seal), watch it again, when they were pulling the soul of the kages, and the hands of the reaper went through clone bodies that means reaper used them as host

so if that's the case the user should cast the jutsu and a clone sacrifice himself for sealing... sure I know It won't work that way... but I got confused...
I think kishi didn't show that well, or it's me who thinks this way

 

[chopstickchakra]

Seeing as how he ended up using his real bosy as well I would be inclined to say the answer is you can use shadow clones to take multiple people given you have the chakra to do so and given the condition the real body is also used(i.e. the shadow clones would have no effect in sealing if the real body was not sealed afterwards and the people sealed away could come back). idk if that made sense or not.

 

[phantomlord22]

Seeing as how he ended up using his real bosy as well I would be inclined to say the answer is you can use shadow clones to take multiple people given you have the chakra to do so and given the condition the real body is also used(i.e. the shadow clones would have no effect in sealing if the real body was not sealed afterwards and the people sealed away could come back). idk if that made sense or not.

that could be
but With minato level of chakra and the way he used it(far distance I mean) then It works like gedo-mazo dragon... But this jutsu is not the same level with that one, is it? :sy:

 

[shadedcrow]

okay we all know the one casting this jutsu must use his body as a Host for the sacrifice and no way you can handle that...

My Q is :
How the hell Sandaime used it with shadow clone and seald away shodai and nindaime???

If this jutsu works this way you can use it with out getting your self sealed or die (using shadow clones) :sy:

A few things the user of the death reaper seal doesn't host anything the death god does.

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Seal(s) appear once souls are gone from the being trying to be sealed on the clones of the technique user. Or once the user of the technique tells the death god to seal their souls.

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soooo i think the op misunderstood the way the death reaper seal jutsu works.. maybe

that could be
but With minato level of chakra and the way he used it(far distance I mean) then It works like gedo-mazo dragon... But this jutsu is not the same level with that one, is it? :sy:

Its on the same page not the same tier. As they are both sealing techniques. Pros of the phantom dragon sealing technique of the gedo-mazo... the user doesn't loose his soul in the process... cons of the gedo mazo sealing technique it only takes chakra. Or gara wouldn't have been able to have been brought back after the extraction of the shikaku, and its chakra.

 

[sn0wy]

he "split his conscious" basically stole the idea from harry potter if u ask me.... said this in the 593 manga

 

[KingHashirama]

this is madness.. great question idd lol.!

no... THIS IS SPARTAAA!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rutonan]

This thread is really thought-provoking