[Discussion] Purpose of life in a idealistic way

[The Work]

Babys and baby momma drama

 

[Deadlift]

The problem comes when you ask "Why did S/He create us" :sdo:

God is a transcendent being, and you can't really analyze His actions in a cause-effect relation. Said this, to answer your question I'd simply say He created us for love

 

[Hachiman]

God is a transcendent being, and you can't really analyze His actions in a cause-effect relation. Said this, to answer your question I'd simply say He created us for love

Sometimes you sound like my church father :lol

 

[Edogawa]

To worship God, and do good deeds he instructed and further away from bad deeds he prohibited, to enter paradise.

 

[Sir Francis Drake]

From a biological stand point, to pass on genes and continue the species.

From a ideological standpoint, whatever you make of life. In the grand scheme of things, as much as we'd all like to be the Naruto, Goku, and Kirito of the world, everything we do really means nothing and is restricted to our planet and even more so just our immediate group of people and town. Eventually we'll fade away and be forgotten, and so will the species.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

There is no purpose.

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

A road you take with routes. Whatever route you take will determine your next step.

Live your life to the fullest.

 

[HashiraMadara]

God is a transcendent being

Then how was his existence proven :sdo:

Said this, to answer your question I'd simply say He created us for love

Which among us does he love? and which He doesn't? If I am not mistaken, he was once called "God of Israel"...

 

[Deadlift]

Then how was his existence proven :sdo:

Proven? you mean how could the first believers become believers or how can we prove God's existence with science?

Which among us does he love? and which He doesn't? If I am not mistaken, he was once called "God of Israel"...

Everybody of us, at least if you talk about Christianity. I believe the question would be better if asked: "who among us loves God?"

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Whatever the life, God comes always first

The problem comes when you ask "Why did S/He create us" :sdo:

According to Theology, God did not initiate creation out of loneliness nor to increase His own blessedness or attaining for himself greater good being that he is already the Summum Bonum or the highest good. But rather the purpose is to manifest His perfection through creation of the world and mankind.

 

[HashiraMadara]

Proven? you mean how could the first believers become believers or how can we prove God's existence with science?

Nope, lets take science out of the window this time. (my arguments are relative. When speaking of Christianity I use only Christian logic).
How did the first believers became believers? He once said I am a "God with jealousy" in Exodus when he was telling them to not worship others. <== Does this mean there exist others or he gets annoyed for those who bow on false gods?
Real question "What prompts a non believer into a believer":

* Thomas was not believing then Jesus put his fingers unto his palm holes... instead of doing like Jesus you're dodging my questions.
* Paul was helped into being a disciple by seeing responsive lightings in Damascus.
Meaning they saw "proof" meanwhile you're trying to dodge my questions by giving philosophical answers

Everybody of us, at least if you talk about Christianity. I believe the question would be better if asked: "who among us loves God?"

Really now? How can a slave and a master pray to the same God?
e.g Master praying "Let my farm bare fruitful results, and increase my slave number"
Slave praying "I only pray for freedom Lord" by Exodus a slave is a legitimate existence, it doesn't "forbid slavery"

 

[HashiraMadara]

According to Theology, God did not initiate creation out of loneliness nor to increase His own blessedness or attaining for himself greater good being that he is already the Summum Bonum or the highest good. But rather the purpose is to manifest His perfection through creation of the world and mankind.

Meaning if I can create life form and later on a human being without extracting any genetic nor compound material on the existing life form I am getting closer to 90% of God's capabilities since I have recreated his "perfection(human being)" without extraction of his existing creation...

 

[Deadlift]

Nope, lets take science out of the window this time. (my arguments are relative. When speaking of Christianity I use only Christian logic).
How did the first believers became believers? He once said I am a "God with jealousy" in Exodus when he was telling them to not worship others. <== Does this mean there exist others or he gets annoyed for those who bow on false gods?
Real question "What prompts a non believer into a believer":

* Thomas was not believing then Jesus put his fingers unto his palm holes... instead of doing like Jesus you're dodging my questions.
* Paul was helped into being a disciple by seeing responsive lightings in Damascus.
Meaning they saw "proof" meanwhile you're trying to dodge my questions by giving philosophical answers


Really now? How can a slave and a master pray to the same God?
e.g Master praying "Let my farm bare fruitful results, and increase my slave number"
Slave praying "I only pray for freedom Lord" by Exodus a slave is a legitimate existence, it doesn't "forbid slavery"

Dodging question? I just asked you what your objections were relative to, so thanks for pointing it out and now I can proceed with the answers.

What your analysis seems to lack is the concept of "revelation". The first believers knew that God existed because God Himself manifested to them. If there wasn't such revelation you would be right, meaning that such a transcendent being couldn't be known by humans by themselves, because transcendent.
However, humans are weak and incomplete and feel the desire of God. So they started worshipping the nature, imagining that every natural phenomenon was a god. They then started building idols of their gods and worshipping them. Do you understand what it means? It means they worshipped a thing that they themselves built.
And God has logic on His side when says that it's absurd that humans, who are supposed to contemplate God (so a Being superior than them) contemplate objects, which are inferior, instead.

What turns a non believer into a believer is God Himself. When you're strongly convinced of one thing, your emotions are tied to that thing and won't leave it that easily. It's not sufficient that a believer points out some logic fallacies in the non-believer's argumentations to make him a believer (For example, Christopher Hitchens remained an atheist even after admittedly losing his debate with John Lennox).

Slave and slave master can pray the same God. You have to understand that for a real believer God is not some sort of a secret weapon to use in case of necessity. God has His plans for everyone of us, there's nothing you can do to convince God to change His mind.
About slavery, remember that Moses was a man of his time. And he needed to be harsh towards a people who were prone to get pagan again after escaping from Egypt. It's not a detail, plus I'm not a protestant and I'm not used to cherrypick single verses of the Bible to prove my point. Every book of the Bible needs to be taken in its whole.

 

[Marin]

Meaning if I can create life form and later on a human being without extracting any genetic nor compound material on the existing life form I am getting closer to 90% of God's capabilities since I have recreated his "perfection(human being)" without extraction of his existing creation...

Nope, lets take science out of the window this time. (my arguments are relative. When speaking of Christianity I use only Christian logic).
How did the first believers became believers? He once said I am a "God with jealousy" in Exodus when he was telling them to not worship others. <== Does this mean there exist others or he gets annoyed for those who bow on false gods?
Real question "What prompts a non believer into a believer":

* Thomas was not believing then Jesus put his fingers unto his palm holes... instead of doing like Jesus you're dodging my questions.
* Paul was helped into being a disciple by seeing responsive lightings in Damascus.
Meaning they saw "proof" meanwhile you're trying to dodge my questions by giving philosophical answers


Really now? How can a slave and a master pray to the same God?
e.g Master praying "Let my farm bare fruitful results, and increase my slave number"
Slave praying "I only pray for freedom Lord" by Exodus a slave is a legitimate existence, it doesn't "forbid slavery"

You're again bringing unrelated topics into question. The topic of God's transcendancy is separate from God's characteristics and even more so from one's attitude towards God. If however you are asking how can a transcendant God be known, the answer lays in one word: revalation.

According to Theology, God did not initiate creation out of loneliness nor to increase His own blessedness or attaining for himself greater good being that he is already the Summum Bonum or the highest good. But rather the purpose is to manifest His perfection through creation of the world and mankind.

While you are indeed right to say that God did not initiate creation out of some need for improvement (for this would be logically impossible since God is a synonim for maximal greatness) we aren't really in a position to guess the specific reasons beyond revalation. We're entering the problem of "Divine Psychology", so to call it, and I find it naive to tackle the psyche of God while we're still awed at the psyche of man.

 

[HashiraMadara]

You're again bringing unrelated topics into question. The topic of God's transcendancy is separate from God's characteristics and even more so from one's attitude towards God. If however you are asking how can a transcendant God be known, the answer lays in one word: revalation.

Them substantiate the relations between these two different yet connected worlds...

While you are indeed right to say that God did not initiate creation out of some need for improvement (for this would be logically impossible since God is a synonim for maximal greatness) we aren't really in a position to guess the specific reasons beyond revalation. We're entering the problem of "Divine Psychology", so to call it, and I find it naive to tackle the psyche of God while we're still awed at the psyche of man.

LOL such excuse"?
So basically these answers that may never be questioned?

It seems like the world know that Barcelona is a great football club right? Even those who've never seen the club know its greatness from those who've seen it and those who've seen were in the stadium to see/experience and witness it.


Then coming to you" You claim Lord as of maximal greatness. On where or what occasion was such greatness witnessed? If not by you who experienced the "revelation" of greatness? On these many revelations going on around the world which one or not one to believe in?

 

[Marin]

Them substantiate the relations between these two different yet connected worlds...

It is your duty to make your words clear. I hold no dept to transcribe gibberish so that others can be freed of their burden. If you wish to use confusing structure in place of sound reasoning be my guest.

LOL such excuse"?
So basically these answers that may never be questioned?

Excuse? Recognition of our cognitive limitations is a better term.

If you wish to speak as if you're more than a finite limited being then be my guest, but the thought won't be entertaining to many honest thinkers.

Then coming to you" You claim Lord as of maximal greatness. On where or what occasion was such greatness witnessed? If not by you who experienced the "revelation" of greatness? On these many revelations going on around the world which one or not one to believe in?

I say God is a maximal being based on who God has revealed himself to be so yes, revalation. Even without it we could deduce the concept as maximally great in the virtue of his very nature. Much like one could recognize an object based on its properties we can determine an entity on basic implications of its existence.

Just like we are logically concluding that three sides are what makes a triangle, we can conclude that maximal greatness is what makes a God. These two cannot be logically separated for if they were that'd be violation of basic definitions, much like stating triangles can have 4 sides.

It is logically necessary that God is a maximally great being.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Meaning if I can create life form and later on a human being without extracting any genetic nor compound material on the existing life form I am getting closer to 90% of God's capabilities since I have recreated his "perfection(human being)" without extraction of his existing creation...

I'm not referring to humanity's goal or capability of becoming akin to God.

While you are indeed right to say that God did not initiate creation out of some need for improvement (for this would be logically impossible since God is a synonim for maximal greatness) we aren't really in a position to guess the specific reasons beyond revalation. We're entering the problem of "Divine Psychology", so to call it, and I find it naive to tackle the psyche of God while we're still awed at the psyche of man.

It is Fides et Ratio, divine revelation in the light of natural theology.

 

[HashiraMadara]

Dodging question? I just asked you what your objections were relative to, so thanks for pointing it out and now I can proceed with the answers.

What your analysis seems to lack is the concept of "revelation".

Check my question on "revelation" below on TranzisstX

The first believers knew that God existed because God Himself manifested to them. If there wasn't such revelation you would be right, meaning that such a transcendent being couldn't be known by humans by themselves, because transcendent.

Manifested? Good use of words, but in what form of manifestation? If I am not mistaken Moses saw the back of God:

Exodus 33:18-34:9English Standard Version (ESV)

18 Moses said, “Please show me your glory.” 19 And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The Lord.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” 21 And the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock, 22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen.”

However, humans are weak and incomplete and feel the desire of God. So they started worshipping the nature, imagining that every natural phenomenon was a god. They then started building idols of their gods and worshipping them. Do you understand what it means? It means they worshipped a thing that they themselves built.

"they themselves built" you say? 21st century 2016 I dare to tell you there is no definte theory on the existence of Lightning and hailstorm.

And God has logic on His side when says that it's absurd that humans, who are supposed to contemplate God (so a Being superior than them) contemplate objects, which are inferior, instead.

A post ago you were telling me God doesn't operate in cause-rate effect :sdo: where is he getting Logic now :sdo:

It's not sufficient that a believer points out some logic fallacies in the non-believer's argumentations to make him a believer (For example, Christopher Hitchens remained an atheist even after admittedly losing his debate with John Lennox).

Well as I said Peter saw Jesus walking in water then ka-boom his belief was strengthened. If you cannot point out fallacies, then why are "miracles" are sometimes necessary to create believers hence If I don't believe it's possible to fly as a human being, why do I believe after seeing Elijah flying to heaven "2 Kings 2"?

Slave and slave master can pray the same God. You have to understand that for a real believer God is not some sort of a secret weapon to use in case of necessity.

What's the point of Mose's name and existence then :sdo:

God has His plans for everyone of us, there's nothing you can do to convince God to change His mind.

Meaning if I end up a killer and in hell it was all planned by him? If this "destiny" form of existence is predetermined then what's the point of me being a believer of even trying something because it's all God's plan and predetermined :sdo:

About slavery, remember that Moses was a man of his time. And he needed to be harsh towards a people who were prone to get pagan again after escaping from Egypt.

I repeat: weren't their actions governed by God since "everything that happens it's part of his plan?

It's not a detail, plus I'm not a protestant and I'm not used to cherrypick single verses of the Bible to prove my point. Every book of the Bible needs to be taken in its whole.

Ironically you overlook some

 

[HashiraMadara]

It is your duty to make your words clear. I hold no dept to transcribe gibberish so that others can be freed of their burden. If you wish to use confusing structure in place of sound reasoning be my guest.

Isn't it your obligation as a believer to show me the real truth?

Excuse? Recognition of our cognitive limitations is a better term.

That where my problem arises, who determined the limit of makind's cognition... because as far as I know they're making progress in terms of average "g" every decade

If you wish to speak as if you're more than a finite limited being then be my guest, but the thought won't be entertaining to many honest thinkers.

I am waiting

I say God is a maximal being based on who God has revealed himself to be so yes, revalation. Even without it we could deduce the concept as maximally great in the virtue of his very nature. Much like one could recognize an object based on its properties we can determine an entity on basic implications of its existence.

Just like we are logically concluding that three sides are what makes a triangle, we can conclude that maximal greatness is what makes a God. These two cannot be logically separated for if they were that'd be violation of basic definitions, much like stating triangles can have 4 sides.

It is logically necessary that God is a maximally great being.

You know that Floyd ran around the ring the whole fight to win it in an unanimous decision. When asked why did he run instead of fighting he said: "I did what was necessary to win"

Dude, dodging a question is one thing. You literally took a different bus and left in full speed

 

[Marin]

Isn't it your obligation as a believer to show me the real truth?

"My obligation as a believer"? It's not up to me to explain your position to myself. If you can't construct a meaningful sentence to support your cause then it's noone's problem but yours.

That where my problem arises, who determined the limit of makind's cognition... because as far as I know they're making progress in terms of average "g" every decade

Who determined it? Well, I could tell you but the answer is pretty ironic so I won't. Our cognitive limitations are self-evident in the very nature of our existence. Finite beings bound by the laws of spacetime. Unless you can make a convincing argument that demonstrates how such beings could leap into transcendance it stays a lost cause for whatever advancements we make we do so within our boundaries.

We don't expand them, we simply witness just how enormous they are.

Dude, dodging a question is one thing. You literally took a different bus and left in full speed

Pooh-pooh all you want. I didn't dodge anything. I gave you a straightforward answer.

It would appear that, instead, you do not know what you're asking.