[Proposition] The ABURAME "are the STRONGEST in the Leaf"

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I've gotten myself into a byte (there's quite a few bits in it) of trouble lately.

If you look at my recent threads, particularly the discussion ones, you should notice that i either begin or end with something along the lines of said threads originally being meant as mere setups for a different thread, but the setup itself being worthy of discussion on its own . . .

The reason for this is simple. I start off with a thread point. However, said topic is hased on a premise that in itself is not only worth discussing, but needs clarification so that the original thread topic does not become misunderstood. This was the issue with the talent thread. It was originally meant to explain why Neji Hyuga could be the most talented character in history. However, because talent itself is a somewhat vague term, i thought to avoid trouble by at least first explaining WHAT I MEANT by it. And that itself brings up another issue: even though we have a good enough understanding of words and context to be able to perceive what others means despite imperfect language (particularly that the value of words is not in their owneaning but rather the intended meaning of the one who wields them), a mixture of competitiveness (and that little bit of a something that would have some people focussing on the middle 4 letters of that word) and pride often have us pressing upon and focussing on the words used instead. Oh childkind.

It was ironically from this that the trouble arose. So much time and focus would be spent on these setup threads that i would end up not getting around to the main thread. Either it would be that the setup thread would reveal further issues that needed to be addressed or . . . well, sometimes i just forgot what the origjnal thread was gonna be about. The Akatsuki power thread was originally meant to be a setup for a Kakuzu thread, but i ended up not being able to properly link them and the Kakuzu thread . . . The Standard Issues thread was meant to setup a series of character evaluation threads, but i ended up not being able to properly format them.

And so on.

So, to avoid that issue particularly because i really wanna do this thread, i will just do this one as a whole. I won't separate it into setup and main thread.

Its somewhat problematic because this is the thread that either has or will touch on the most separate issues. Still, one must learn their lessons and get on with it.

So, friendly warning, this is gonna be a lohng one. Well, probably. I haven't typed it out yet so i cannot be sure.

Maybe i should take a leaf out of the book of wanderingcactus and sort out the various points inside spoilers? No, that was not intended.

The Clan of Aburame is the strongest in the Leaf, not the Hyuga! And of course, not the Uchiha or the Senju. (Hey, we should come up with nicknames for the various elements in Naruto. So far I've got UchiHAHA, SenJUICED, HyuGASSED/HyuGASP/HyuGAY, and Hidden FOLLYage for the Leaf - because 'folliage' is related to plants and 'folly' is the dis)

The above is a relative statement. This means its value is onlg as good as the ones it relates to. The Aburame being strongest in the Leaf does not necessitate it being stronger than clans outside the Leaf, for example. Until we have some sort of absolute or fixed measure of quality for the other clans, we cannot use this to say anything about the absolute or fixed quality of the Aburame on its own. Just to note on how relative statements works.

That is also a comparative statement, although comparative is just a synonym for relative, mostly. Being comparative means a particular quality is being measured. Measurements apply to quantitative things, things with a value that can be ranked against others.

When you're dealing with rankings, you need to have a measuring stick, a standard to rank things by. For example, you cannot simply rank apples and oranges, even as fruits, because they are fundamentally different qualities not aiming towards the same end. However, with the standard being a common factor such as 'sweetness', you could measure that and use it as a measuring stick. Then you could rank them.

So basically, before any ranking type of work can be done, there must be a precise factor being ranked and a precise method of ranking used. And let me tell you, even sweetness is not precise enough because there are different types of it. Consider chocolate vs fruit juice . . .

So this means that one can almost never measure anything against another outright, only ever in specific categories. This is because each things is a different quality outright and has a different quality that makes it worthy of its existence. To measure them risks focussing so much on one part that you lose the value of the whole thing.

So, is strength a precise enough quality to measure?

Well, it depends on what is being measured. For any single task, such as breaking walls, one could certainly rank people according to their punching strength. However, for something less precise such as combat ability, you need something that determines this ability or else you'll end up comparing apples to oranges again.

Now in a world like that of Dragonball, the factor of ki is all-encompassing and thus fit to measure things like power level. However, in a world like Naruto, where you not only have different combat methods (hand to hand, chakra, strategy) but each of those methods can be manipulated in different ways (fighting styles, elements, situations), there is no single quality or factor that can be used to as a measuring stick for strength in combat.

But its not all bad. See, because combat itself is a purpose-based activity, then one can look at this purpose and see how well it is fulfilled by all these qualities to rank them and the ones who wield them. In this case, combat is about defeating your opponent, depelting their health bar.

But then another problem arises: in Naruto, the existence of these different elements means that counters are a major factor in outcomes, so simply beating someone does not necessitate being stronger than them.

Still, there is a solution. The basis of all these qualities and methods of fighting is to defeat someone. Not only, but to defeat someone naturally stronger. How so? Well, you don't invent a Fire Ball if your normal fists can do the job. So the value of any technique can be definitively measured according to how much of a difference in natural strength they allow you to overcome. For example, Zabuza with his sword can beat someone slightly faster and punching harder than him, because iron / flesh. On the other hand, Konan with her paper form would be able to survive even against a Ten Tails Host, because they literally could not touch her. Now since they have such an immense advantage in strength over her, it means her technique is excellent.

The thing is this: we are not ranking techniques but rather the characters who wield them. This means we can't just look at how good the techniques are but how far they push the ones who wield them. This is easily explained by the reality that Kinshiki only wields weapons but is stronger than characters who wield techniques like Particle Style, despite the latter being far superior to basic weapons. This reality is explained by the fact that techniques do not wield themselves, but rather are wielded by characters. So characters are the foundation of the techniques and therefore the technique only works as well as one can use it. For example, we are told by Kisame that Suigetsu can wield the Executioner Blade better than Zabuza. So if we are ranking combat ability, then we must look at what level of strength the wielder can match with their techniques, and not.simply the difference between the strength and the wielder.

So the only thing that remain on this setup point is to confirm what is being measured by strength.

The answer for that comes from the basis of the thread: the title. The title itself is obviously inspired by that double statement from Hiashi Hyuga.

Looking at the context, the statement was made in a combat scenario. It or similar stratements of being the best or the smartest or somesuch were never made, especially outside of combat context.

I don't think it is necessary to go further and specify the war-like combat scenarios, because strength would be a deciding factor in that without being restricted to those scenarios alone, while a more precise way of restricting the meaning to war scenarios is with a term like 'warrior' or 'defender'. So i dont think it was.meant to only work for war scenarios.

So as i see it, strength here refers to direct combat scenarios. As such, it will be measured by how high the natural strength of an opponent would have to be in order to beat someone using their techniques. Since natural strength is itself dependant on various stats, such as strength, speed and durability, the assumption will be that they are all relatively equal. The tenplate for this equality will be Kinshiki. Effectively, it can then be said that the measure of strength will be what level or percentage of his powers Kinshiki would need in order to beat the person.

When it comes to doing combat rankings in Naruto, one should be noteful of the two issues of counters and character quality.

Even with a straight standard of stats beating, some styles make that much easier than others without being always and consistently easy to win with. The example of Konan who would probably beat Kinshiki with her style but would still be vulnerable to the likes of Mei with her acid covers this well.

When it comes to counters, that they apply is not the only factor. They must also be considered completely. That is to say, one should not evaluate Konan because she could beat Kinshiki alone, but also that she would struggle against Mei. So they must be applied all around.

But even in applying them, there is a limit to how far they apply. See, combat is not always in a straged versus format. To this end, a character does not always face their counters. We saw this with the main characters, where the likes of Sasuke and Naruto took down Deidara and Kakuzu respectively because their techniques countered the techniques of the Akatsuki while the Akatsuki themselves were capable of taking down tailed beasts far stronger than the main characters. So the combat quality of a character is not always limited to their counters. This means general capability in natural ebcounters like war scenarios, stealth missions and such must be considered.

The other factor is that of character quality. For example, if Shikamaru did not have his shadow techniques, he would still be smart enough to use basic traps against characters like Hidan. So there is a degree of quality that must be credited to the character besides their special techniques.

Still, the fact that most shinobi have a strong training foundation means that basic quality alone is very rarely enough to make a difference. The actual styles of the characters are still very relevant.

Ultimately, this means that any ranking must be a balance of character techniques and counters as well as the quality of the characters who use those abilities. How much of each is accounted for is based on the specifics of the ranking. In this case, we look at how important techniques are to combat as opposed to pure character quality.

For this particular ranking, we are looking at clans. Since clans are defined more by their special techniques as opposed to the specific people in those clans, then those should count more than character quality.

Of course, because of the counters issue, we have to not simply look at who beats who, but who they are generally able to content with. This comes from the very same explanation about elements that tells us about counters. The different elements onky counter each other if the techniques used are of a similar quality. Lightning Style beats Earth Style, but a collection of Earth Walls was able to keep back a Hell Stab from the 3rd RK. So as we look at styles, we're going to look at both the basic principles or ideas behind them as well as the levek to which they are successfully applied.

Styles are, according to Neji, the very reason the Hyuga are so powerful.

With the various clans, they all use their chakra to achieve unique and special effects. The Hyuga beat them because they use the most basic form of chakra to achieve basic but absolute effects. An Air Palm strike pushes back everything, irrespective of what element it is. The Heavenly Rotations reflect everything sccording to its own power. The Gentle Fist blocks all chakra, irrespective of its form.

However, that is just one possible (there are four) way to counter anything. The one that the Aburame use is actually another which is directly superior to the Hyuga method. Instead of outright blocking opponent techniques, the Aburame effectively consume them to grow stronger. While a Hyuga will expand a little chakra to push back something like a Fire Ball, the Aburame will simply send their bugs to eat ut and grow stronger.

So in principle, the Aburame style is directly superior - not just a counter but outright superior - to the Hyuga style, which makes the Aburame also stronger than all the others because the Hyuga themselves are stronger than them. The Aburame operate on the same principle but with better method.

When it comes to application of these principles, the two major areas are offense and defence.

In offence, the Hyuga possess the 64 Palms for close range to shut down opponent chakra networks and the Air Palm for long range. These are good against a decent number of weak opponents or a single strong opponent, because of their range and direction. However, because they lack the natural forms of elements, they have very little interactuve utility (Fire Ball can set a forest in fire to defeat an army). While they are simple to use, they are expansive which means that an army too large would overwhelm them.

The Aburame use their bugs to break down chakra constructs and consume them. This means that they can defeat opponents with a single bug. Since the bugs are really just eating, they can take on opponents for as long as they come. At close range they overwhelm and at long range they win with stealth.

The Hyuga have an advantage in range with their Air Palm being faster and having a stronger force to it, but that the Aburame can also send out their bugs and at longer ranges matches this. So while a Hyuga could knock down a wall, the Aburame could get the person behind the wall and by beating him win themselves a brand new house.

When it comes to defence, the Hyuga have a strong one with Heavenly Rotations at close range and their Byakugan at long ranges. The Byakugan allows to see everything in notable distance and allows to either attack or avoid a threat. It basically insures preparation for anything, if seen in time. At close range, the Rotations can knock back almost anything and harm the opponent at the same time. Still, this is weak against forceless attacks. By this i mean attacks like acid which doesn't attack with force but instead special effect. Their good chakra control and vision also combine to beat special attacks like illusions and seals/barriers (chakra constructs).

For the Aburame, the bugs still do the work. They can be spread out to detect threats. While they are slower than the Byakugan, that they do not require maintaining their chakra network means they work despite the user. At close range, bug nets can keeps anything out, bug waves can hide the user and bug teamwork can even allow for flying away and such. That their bodies are filled with brainless armies means that genjutsu doesnt even get a chance and any sort of trap is detected beforehand. Seals and such are simply consumed. We've even seen that special bug abilities like that Sonic Wave can block things like sensing

Here, the Hyuga advantage is in their speed, but the Aburame again win with attrition battles and the lack of need for a stern vigil. Now since defence is more about the opponent than anything else, the Aburame win here because their bug nets can detect threats round the clock at no cost.

Now that was just general usage. Ultimately, combat is about opponents so counters to them must be explored.

When it comes to clans, there are basically two types: the strong and the smart. Strong clans like the Senju, Uchiha and Kaguya use their strong chakra for powerful constructs. Smart clans like Ino-Shika-Cho use their talents to develop hax technique. In this view, the Hyuga are among the strong while the Aburame the smart.

The strong clans create powerful constructs and elements and use their battle sense to overwhelm and get around opponents. The Hyuga beat them with a Byakugan defense that sees everything and Gentle Fist offense that stops anything. The Aburame do the same by feeding on their very chakra to beat anything thrown at them.

The smart clans use their hax to effectively bypass strength itself with their hax. The Hyuga use their chakra control and vision to get past these special techniques while the Aburame rely on their special bodies to outright negate them.

The only thing that remains then is a direct clash between the two. In this case, the Aburame would eat the very same chakra that the Hyuga throw at them, making them a direct counter. The Air Palm, or its bastardization, exploding chakra, are the best hope of a good hit. Even if they hit, the fact that the Aburame rely on their bugs instead of chakra constructs means that they could still launch attacks. On the other hand, the Byakugan is the best defense against the bugs because it can see them from all directions, but as Lee said vision doesn't help if you cant react. In this case, Hyuga seeing that they are surrounded would not help if they cannot avoid the million mini army. Their rotations would not help either as the bugs would not strike with force and would just eat the chakra.

So the Hyuga are slightly better at general combat instances but the Aburame have an answer for everything they do and can do so for much longer. In clan combat, the Hyuga can beat any clan but the Aburame grow stronger from them. In direct combat, the Aburame hard counter the Hyuga.

The only thing remaining then is to look at character qualities. Just as this is hardly important to clan rankings, so the precise of this is for rare occasions - special talents.

Now, character quality can apply for two things. The first is general character attitude that makes them useful for things like being a leader, being a team leader, a spy and so on. However, those are somewhat outside the scope of this thread, which is strength.

The second, then, is what will matter most here. That is a look at the best that any member of a clan could possibly achieve. Essentially, its a look at Golden Generation quality.

This then brings up another matter of clan style principles. This is not simply what those principles are, but the best they could possibly be.

In this case, the Hyuga clan actually loses out for the same reason they are usually so strong: their techniques are too well refined. See, potential is basically what a person could do, but hasn't done. So the more you do, the less you could possibly do. So because the Hyuga clan has utilised their talents to full potential, there is very little room for development besides purely higher stats, but that applies to all clans. So their own refinement limits their potential with their style to not being able to get out of their style in the first place. This is because they rely too much on it to see how it could work in other ways. For example, the Hyuga would be the perfect puppet style users if they could think of it.

So how does this work in principles? Well, the principles of the Hyuga style is to use your own chakra to do things. This is good hecause the direct usage of chakra is cheaper than converting it into elements which need to be concentrated in order to be potent. However, it also means the Hyuga can never do anything beyond their own quality. With equivalent talents for each clan (golden generation), a Hyuga will never Air Palm a village away unless they themselves are village level. For clans like the Akimichi which focus on improving their selves, they use their techniques to griw themselves to village level even if they started out at house level. For clans like the Sarutobi which use environmental elements, they use the power of the environment which gives them potential to go beyond human levels. For clans like the Yamanaka which use special effects, they can capture opponents and use their own quality against their friends. All these are somewhat volatile as they depend on special conditions - consider that the best Earth Style is useless in the ocean - so the Hyuga have a stability advantage. However, if those conditions are met, the other clans have a potential advantage. The Aburame beat all these by not simply relying on other factors, but by becoming and embodying those factors within them. This gives them the crucial advantage of never needing special conditions or setup times. And when it comes to potential, its just a question of finding the strongest possible bug. Imagine a boss summons type of bug bred in the thousands.

So the Hyuga are stable but limited, while the Aburame are not only just as stable - actually more, because a Hyuga has to summon their chakra while an Aburame always has their bugs ready - but have the greatest potential advantage ever. Even summoners don't have the same potential as Aburame because they have to summon their charges while an Aburame is always ready with their bugs. This gives the Aburame ambush immunity, while all these other styles can be nullified by things like anti-chakra barriers.

Although it can be argued that their chakra control quality means the Hyuga can do things like Twin Lions to achieve special effects of high level, the Aburame again match that by having bugs with special powers like that anti-sensing barrier.

In a way, the Aburame are to the Hyuga what Soul Editing of Shisui is to the Timeless Illusion of Itachi. The Hyuga have the conventional strength, but the special application of the Aburame allows then to cross boundaries the Hyuga cannot imagine.

Of course this only speaks to combar strength and not other issues. This also makes it ironic, for me, that Hiashi would brag in combat when support is where i think they truly excel. Think of this, as soon as Hinata could see 1km out as a genin, any jonin could backpack her and have 1km vision for detecting traps and scouting out enemy formations. That's as good as having a squad of scouts in just a genin. Again, if Jiraiya backpacked Hinata with her 10km vision, he could've discovered the secret of SPoP and where Nagato was instantly. Meanwhile, other clan powers would fail against the SPoP and even Aburame bugs would be sensed and attacked.

»»»»»»

But if the Aburame are so much stronger, why is there so little guidance to it?

This is a good question. In dealing with any proposition, one must not only deal in evidence, but also with the problems arising from its implications. In other words, what if your idea is true?

In this case, there are two issues.

The first is why clan history does not elevate the Aburame.

The first answer here is that the Senju and Uchiha were especially aggressive because of their special stories. This meant that they literally chose to develop their levels while others were not as gung-ho or enthusiastic. We saw from Jiraiya and Kimimaro that emotions are a powerful motivator.

The second answer, or part thereof, is that Aburame techniques (most clan techniques, but especially Aburame) require a stable environment to properly develop. Its like how training makes sportsmen better than simply playing all the time. Training provides a safe environment to test potential. We saw this, ironically, with Sasuke. As a kid, he was good but nothing too special. With proper training, he eventually awakened great powers. If Sasuke lived in warring states era, he would have died as a kid and never got a chance to develop his strongest powers. The village, as per the Pioneers themselves, was meant to provide a safe space for kids. Aburame techniques are developed through great patience and delicacy, they need a very safe environment to develop. Its literally raising pets.

So history basically consists of conditions which are terrible for the Aburame but excellent for the Uchiha and Senju. That's why they could do so well in comparison.

The second is why Hiashi made that statement of the Hyuga being the strongest.

Here, not only does the above slightly cover it (opportunity), but the very meaning of strength matters. See, if you use a forklift to lift a 10tonne stone but your friend lifts 1tonne with their hands, they will be called stronger despite you achieving much superior results. This is because strength is generally seen as being from a person, not simply with or about them. So since the Hyuga powers come from their selves while Aburame (and even the other clans, a little bit) come from their bugs, the idea of strength applies to Hyuga but not Aburame. Perhaps if the Aburame used a bug based hand to hand style they would qualify. This also probably applies in the Tsunade vs Chiyo situation. Tsunade is called the strongest woman despite Chiyo using a Puppet Style that is directly superior to hand to hand combat, and she does so in the tens. However, Tsunade is more fitting to be called strong because of her style. Perhaps the Aburame could be called powerful or somesuch, but not really strong in the popular sense.

Other than that, it is quite interesting that . . . It could be part of the Aburame chareacter trope: they always get forgotten. It seems unlikely, but it is certainly noteworthy that they are stronger in combat, forgettable and the title goes to another, more outspoken and respected clan. Remember how even Kiba stated that he feared Shino the most, yet basic and honestly weak Sasuke was called the rookie of the year. The same Sasuke happening to come from the most memorable clan in the village . . . So it could also be a character theme or trope.

That's it really. I should say that this thread is actually born from another thread i thought to make. Maybe i will still make it.

Just for closing touches, consider that part where Kiba expressed fear of Shino above everyone else, even the likes of Neji and Gaara. Also remember how Kankuro did not want to reveal his puppets because he was saving them for the invasion? That tells us he saw his puppets as invasion material. Then combine all that with the fact that Shino fought Kankuro to a draw. And even then only because Kankuro used tactical trickery (re-attaching threads, poison) to match Shino.

Also look at what Shino did in the 4th War and consider what potential that allows him to reach.

Also look at the fact that everything Shino did there could have been done by even genin Shino if he had the correct bugs in time . . .

What say you?
 
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Yursix

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Simply put, what makes the Aburama Clan different is their actions do not stand out like Hyuuga. I think you are pushing it when you say they are the strongest though. The bugs can easily be squash by someone.
 

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Simply put, what makes the Aburama Clan different is their actions do not stand out like Hyuuga. I think you are pushing it when you say they are the strongest though. The bugs can easily be squash by someone.
Strongest IN THE LEAF, not the whole world.

What do you mean by the bold? How does that prove their power limited?

I will quote OP now
combat scenario
measured by how high the natural strength of an opponent would have to be in order to beat someone
combat is not always in a straged versus format
stealth missions
For this particular ranking, we are looking at clans. Since clans are defined more by their special techniques as opposed to the specific people in those clans, then those should count more than character quality.
more by their special techniques as opposed to the specific people in those clans,
special techniques as opposed to the specific people
Styles are, according to Neji, the very reason the Hyuga are so powerful
So in principle, the Aburame style is directly superior - not just a counter but outright superior - to the Hyuga style
The Aburame operate on the same principle but with better method.
The Aburame use their bugs to break down chakra constructs and consume them. This means that they can defeat opponents with a single bug
This means that they can defeat opponents with a single bug
defeat opponents with a single bug.
with a single bug
a single bug
single bug
single bu
they overwhelm
overwhelm
long range they win with stealth.
they win with stealth
they win with stealth.
We've even seen that special bug abilities
would just eat the chakra
The Aburame beat all these
Imagine a boss summons type of bug bred in the thousands.
So the Hyuga are stable but limited, while the Aburame are not only just as stable - actually more, because a Hyuga has to summon their chakra while an Aburame always has their bugs ready - but have the greatest potential advantage ever.
So history basically consists of conditions which are terrible for the Aburame but excellent for the Uchiha and Senju. That's why they could do so well in comparison.
consider that part where Kiba expressed fear of Shino above everyone else, even the likes of Neji and Gaara
Kankuro used tactical trickery (re-attaching threads, poison) to match Shino.
Just make sure your thinking is not already covered here.
Post automatically merged:

The bugs can easily be squash by someone.
Spoken like someone who uses bug spray

Sorry, but this must be said.

Even without forcing you to clarify and account for your claim, even if i take your implication as is, the statement itself is very scrutinable.

Have you ever gotten into a straight fight with a bug? Something like a cockroach?
Those things are extremely fast. Just by crawling around a cockroach would run circles around you! By the time you did stomp it, you'd be huffing and puffing your way to your oxygen pump.

And that's just by crawling. Imagine when the thing starts flying! You would no longer be trying to catch it but catch a break by running for your life.

And that's just a cockroach. Imagine proper flying bugs like flies, mosquitoes and dragonflies. Imagine a poisonous version of them, which only needs a bite to end you.

If you took on a bug in a straight fight, you'd lose!

You know what creature kills the most people every year? Not lions, not crocodiles, not hippopotami, not sharks, not giant squids and not even bears. Its mosquitoes! just one of many bug types.

And before you say these are ninjas, guess what? These are ninja bugs, in a ninja world and even there they are specially bred to take on ninja!

And you know what they do against ninja? They eat the very chakra that powers them. You saw what happened when the shinobi were drained of their chakra by the Ten Tails. Just a single bug could do that. Not only, but do that and use the chakra to breed more bugs to keep on doing that. In fact, it was the bugs which ate the Ten Tails army soldiers!

Seriously. You know that spot on your back that you can never reach with your hands? All a bug has to do is reach that spot . . .
just a single bug.
 
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Yursix

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Strongest IN THE LEAF, not the whole world.

What do you mean by the bold? How does that prove their power limited?

I will quote OP now




































Just make sure your thinking is not already covered here.
Post automatically merged:


Spoken like someone who uses bug spray

Sorry, but this must be said.

Even without forcing you to clarify and account for your claim, even if i take your implication as is, the statement itself is very scrutinable.

Have you ever gotten into a straight fight with a bug? Something like a cockroach?
Those things are extremely fast. Just by crawling around a cockroach would run circles around you! By the time you did stomp it, you'd be huffing and puffing your way to your oxygen pump.

And that's just by crawling. Imagine when the thing starts flying! You would no longer be trying to catch it but catch a break by running for your life.

And that's just a cockroach. Imagine proper flying bugs like flies, mosquitoes and dragonflies. Imagine a poisonous version of them, which only needs a bite to end you.

If you took on a bug in a straight fight, you'd lose!

You know what creature kills the most people every year? Not lions, not crocodiles, not hippopotami, not sharks, not giant squids and not even bears. Its mosquitoes! just one of many bug types.

And before you say these are ninjas, guess what? These are ninja bugs, in a ninja world and even there they are specially bred to take on ninja!

And you know what they do against ninja? They eat the very chakra that powers them. You saw what happened when the shinobi were drained of their chakra by the Ten Tails. Just a single bug could do that. Not only, but do that and use the chakra to breed more bugs to keep on doing that. In fact, it was the bugs which ate the Ten Tails army soldiers!

Seriously. You know that spot on your back that you can never reach with your hands? All a bug has to do is reach that spot . . .
just a single bug.

Sorry, I'm not going to argue about bugs. lol

You also have to understand that the bugs feed on the host themselves. So although they can devour chakra, they also take chakra from the user. [Naruto Chapter 70] The bug master controls the bugs, so all you have to do is one-sot the user.

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minamoto

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Sorry, I'm not going to argue about bugs. lol

You also have to understand that the bugs feed on the host themselves. So although they can devour chakra, they also take chakra from the user. [Naruto Chapter 70] The bug master controls the bugs, so all you have to do is one-sot the user.

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read chaptar when tobidara praize bugs no jusu..and praize aboroamo chiruko...chaptar is when tobidara fight torone and foo...
 

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The guy on the right is an Aburame, it's not Torune.

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If he is with Orochimaru as bodyguard of Danzo, it's probably means that he was, as Orochimaru, one of the best member of the Root.
 
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Nidaime Suiton

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Aburame and Yamanka have the most unexplored potential. I would say both are exceptional, maybe up their with being top tiers.
Theoritically, beside Itachi's Izanami, the Yamanaka clan was the only solution to cancel Edo Tensei during the 4th war.

If a Yamanaka learn the undo sceal of Edo Tensei, he could take control of Kabuto's mind, and do the sceal to cancel Edo Tensei. But in this respect, the Yamanaka guy needs to be supported by one or some high level shinobi in order to distract and weaken Kabuto.
 

Guntah

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Okay, so that's like four thosand words, and I'm not gonna read a thesis on why the bug people are so cool.

HOWEVER, whether or not you've read it, one thing is undeniable.
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That shit is scary.

I respect the Aburame, man.
 
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Infant

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Sorry, I'm not going to argue about bugs. lol
Coz ya know!

Of all the clans out there, why do you think the authors made THEM the forgettable clan? Coz otherwise they'd be selected for every mission and solo every opponent!

Look at Tekken (thank you, Bandai Namco, thank you for the absolute gem of a game you've given the world). It is supposed to be the most realistic of the fighting games, showcasing characters and their styles as they would best interact. It is so committed to this end that it is not even technically a fighting game, but rather a fighting SIMULATOR.

TO THIS END, they only include people andsuch characters or styles that can be realistically put up against each other. They don't have guys like Superman because there is hardly a style to consider and he would just blow the field away.

STILL, they have included things like a giant man, a half-demon, and even a flying android. But you know what they didn't include? A bug! Seriously, they have a Divine Fist user and even a ninja and they don't think that breaks their scaling. Not just a ninja, but even the master of said ninja who possesses a technique that can be summed up as "short range Amenotejikara" - a technique used by one of the strongest ninja in Naruto history! And its not just humanoids, they even have a bear!

All this that doesnt break their scaling. But you know what they didn't include? A BUG. Nevermind a swarm of just 1000 bugs and don't even speak of an army of millions (that Shino can breed very quickly according to anime), they don't have a single bug! And of course, bugs with special abilities are just too much to even consider.

That's the power of bugs, of just a single bug, as recognised by the best fighting game out there!


You also have to understand that the bugs feed on the host themselves. So although they can devour chakra, they also take chakra from the user. [Naruto Chapter 70] The bug master controls the bugs, so all you have to do is one-sot the user.
Again i must ask clarification of your point, lest i misunderstand and address a strawman.

Still, taking the implications at face value, they rely on the factthat the style has drawbacks (?).

Well, doesn't every style and every move have draw backs? They all cost energy or chakra or even your life.

And when i consider this, there is even more proof the Aburame are superior

No wait, before i go there, i must address that such drawbacks mostly apply outside of battle, with feeding the bugs. In battle, they are already fed and simply need to be directed.

That aside, look at the drawback. It is basically feeding them chakra, which is the same for every elemental technique. Now in principle, it ends there. But looking at the specifics, this method feeds pure chakra which is much easier to make than elemental chakra which must bedense in order to be high quality. Back up for this idea is that many other techniques are always noted as being of limited usage but feeding the bugs has never been noted as costing too much chakra. In fact, it is the opposite, where feeding the stronger bugs too much is the problem. So at worst it cancels out and at normal it is easier on chakra than normal ninjutsu.

Another advantage is that constantly kneading chakra keeps one alert, so ambushes are less likely.

Another advantage is that this is effectly constant preparation, which means one is always battle ready. Normal techniques have to be activated in battle, the Aburame are ready before battle. And as we know with Konan, Itachi and Shikamaru, prepared moves are thematically stronger than normal moves.

The biggest advantage is that the bugs are fed before hand. This is actually a double advantage. Firstly, the Aburame is always ready for a full battle, while other techniques can become literally impossible to use if the user is out of chakra mid battle. Secondly, the bugs can feed on opponents - actually, that is literally what they do and how they are used - so that the caster does not run out. This is a major advantage because it means most shinobi are scared of long battle but an Aburame grows stronger over time.

So when it comes to drawbacks, the Aburame are proven to be thoroughly superior to most others of relevance.

As for your other point - again, assuming i understood - it is very similar.

All techniques are controlled by the user, so taking them out . . . So at best, it evens out.

But just as with the previous, looking at the specifics makes the Aburame look good.

Other techniques are directly controlled by the user, but the bugs are only fed. So the point of defeating the user applies to all techniques. Even summons take energy from the summoner, with the most powerful, the slug, being described as being effectively powerless without the summoner to power it up. However, the Aburame don't just throw techniques but living allies. So even if an Aburame was knocked out, an opponent would still be unsafe or could at least have to struggly to finish off the Aburame.

To close this off, i think it is best to simply describe things. Other clans throw techniques at opponents, but the Aburame throw 1000 allies with their own techniques!


Sorry, I'm not going to argue about bugs. lol

You also have to understand that the bugs feed on the host themselves. So although they can devour chakra, they also take chakra from the user. [Naruto Chapter 70] The bug master controls the bugs, so all you have to do is one-sot the user.
I like the picture you posted, i could draw lots from it (one word: "legend" I'm sure you can fill in the rest . . . )

As for the bolded: well, it is easy and simple to understand it, but i think that may be thevery problem with how we understand things. Or rather, why we struggle to understand them.
We seem to have these notions (which are quite understandable, but still faulty) in us that certain things are just not worthy of being of certain importance, that some things are only 'meh' and can never be at a certain level of quality or power.
Why though?
From what i have see, they are easy to understand, these notions. Not only, they are even fairly reliable. However, that only applies in generic situations, hence why we call them generalisations. In specific scenarios, with explicit details, the specific details take absolute priority. So even if Aburame were always weak, if their styleallows for them to do amazing things, why should we not give the style due credit?

I think this is the problem many faced with Itachi vs Zabuza as well. Zabuza, as an initial villain/opponent, was never supposed to be powerful. On the other hand, Itachi being praised by all sorts of characters and being one of the best characters around had people set that his power level MUST be above others, especially an initial villain. To this end, any specifics which put Zabuza any where near, never mind above, Itachi just would not register on people because they weren't prepared for such.

The thinking itself has its usefulness, but in fitting circumstances. Outside those, it misleads. Putting the right thing in the wrong place gets a wrong result, always.

Otherwise, i was mostly joking with the Tekken thing. Although . . .
Post automatically merged:

Theoritically, beside Itachi's Izanami, the Yamanaka clan was the only solution to cancel Edo Tensei during the 4th war.

If a Yamanaka learn the undo sceal of Edo Tensei, he could take control of Kabuto's mind, and do the sceal to cancel Edo Tensei. But in this respect, the Yamanaka guy needs to be supported by one or some high level shinobi in order to distract and weaken Kabuto.
This is brilliant.

Never mind Kabuto. If a Yamanak learned the seals, they could capture any reanimation and free them from Kabuto, winning over an immortal ally against the homonculi army.

We can guarantee that guys like Nagato, Hanzo and Chiyo would have served the shinobi army. The kage could probably be convinced and all those who broke free by conviction would be good shots too.



Okay, so that's like four thosand words, and I'm not gonna read a thesis on why the bug people are so cool.
Lol, its only 4 thousand, seven hundred and sixty-six, nothing much

Just gotta clarify so people don't think im some lazy bum who cant even half-ass anything more than 4000 words for a point
 
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