Proof that Third Kazekage > Third Raikage (Actual Explanation inside)

[Negative Knight]

Third Kazekage vs Third Raikage​

Third Kazekage's Profile (written by Negative Knight):

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Third Kazekage​

These are the things he can do, i honestly think he is underrated as he was kidnapped and poisoned by Sasori, there was was proof that they didn't fight because there was no sign of struggle, even Tenten would leave a trail of broken weapons.

He wasn't beaten by Gaara or Sasori, as Gaara fought the fourth and Sasori assasinated him


Kekkei genkai Magnet Release which allowed him to convert his chakra into magnetic forces and magnetise an object. This logically means he is immune to almost all weapons, any metallic object used in battle can be used on the opponent and theoretically he can utilize the iron in people's blood
stream.

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Advantageous Nature of Size
Iron Sand can also be used as a internal weapon to kill your opponent if killing them on the outside is out of the question e.g. with the Third Raikage. The Iron sand can enter through the mouth or nose of the person manipulating it through his magnet release Kekkei Genkai. This would cause interal bleeding, heaviness of the lungs and causing breathing problems which would definitely affect the Third Raikage's performance, whether we accept it or not the Third Raikage is still human. The Third's lungs could be slowly filled with Iron sand which would eventually result in him suffocating from insufficent oxygen. This is a full proof method in killing the Third Raikage as its not one that can be guarded unless the Third Raikage goes "Mhmhm im not opening my mouth and i'm wearing a nose plug"

Ability to Restrain Opponents
As shown in the manga, Gaara was able to restrain the Third Raikage with his ordinary sand and needed assitance from one of the other Edo's in order to break free. Imagine how hard it would be to break free for the Raikage without assistance and a stronger structure of iron sand with closer linked particles. It could work in a similar manner to Hashirama's restraining of tailed beasts.

Gaara restraining the Third Raikage

Spoiler

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Iron conducts electricity
The fact that iron conducts electricity means that he is able to use it in the same way the lightning receiving mechanism which safely get rid of an immense amount of electricity by charging it back into the earth to be dispersed. Basically this means any projectiles the raikage shoots at the Third Kazekage could be easily diverted into iron rod mechanisms which just transmit it safely back to earth.

With this same method the Kazekage could divert a Kirin successfully from sasuke.

Range of the Battle

The kazekage could either fly with his sand much like Gaara or have the other option of wearing iron on his soles so that he can use his magnet release to repulse him into the air (as long as it exceeds the force of gravity) meaning he could fight from a safe distance and not worry about the Raikage's main and devastating melee attacks e.g. hell stab whilst simultaneously guarding himself from projectiles with the method mentioned my first point.

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Ability to warp the Terrain
The Third Kazekage could use large amounts of iron sand to cover the ground to serve several purposes in the battle.

1) It would significantly decrease the speed of the Third Raikage compared to travelling on a normal ground.

2) The Third Kazekage can use several traps because controlling the terrain meaning an overall control of the environement in the battle e.g. catching the third Raikage in a iron sand trap surprisingly which restrains his body.


Ability to condense Iron Sand
The properties of metals mean that iron sand can be condensed most desirably into small spheres so a very larger quantity of iron sand can be carried than compared to Gaara's ordinary sand.
This also helps the idea the that the Third would be able to warp the terrain because of the very large amounts of iron sand that can be condensed and carried in a fairly ordinary sized container (like Gaara's)

Iron Sand Dust Mist
This is a constant mist of iron sand which is poisonous to ingest because the devastating effect it would have on the lungs, similar to what hanzo would of procured to kill with his poison only its directly deadly to you and has no actual cure. Prevents the enemy entering the iron sand mist whilst the user can use it as a active defense which requires little to no maintenance.

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Iron Sand World Method:
This technique uses Iron Sand to create a gigantic sphere of branching spikes. The user first creates two masses of Iron Sand of opposing magnetic fields and then merges them together. This causes the magnetic forces to instantly increase and the repellent force created by the two opposing magnetic fields scatters the Iron Sand across a vast area.


Iron Sand Bullets
It is a gunshot-like attack which uses Iron Sand hardened into minuscule grains to attack simultaneously across a vast range. The bullets are so fast that they are difficult to see. The moment the user has finished preparing the attack, evading it becomes extremely difficult. Using the repellent force of magnetism, the speed of the bullets is rapidly increased after they are shot. Poison would make this attack lethal.

Immunity to all Metallic Weapons
This is just plain and simply all weapons made of metal .e.g almost everything would be useless/disadvantageous to the user using them. Imagine Tenten going up against this guy. "10000 Weapons rain, they stop and turn around with everyone single hitting as the magnet release guides it like a missile. Hiruko with his Steel release would become a toy to throw far and wide and Shikumaru's kunai technique could very well back fire.


Access to a Infinite Armoury:
The weapon is made out of Iron Sand, the shape can be whatever the user wants, and can even be changed during the fight. This allows the user to create the best weapon for the fight, by taking into account the opponent's abilities and the surrounding environment. Since the Iron Sand generates a strong magnetic field, the opponent cannot use any metal weapons or tools.

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Iron Armour Defense
He can use this much like Gaara's only its far stronger with the sand upgraded to iron sand mean a smaller density would have the same effect and the same quantity with a extremely difficult defense to get through.

Strengths and Weaknesses against Other Elements


Absolute Immunity - Even the most powerful wind techniques won't do much damage, a hurricane vs a iron house?

Absolute Immunity - Earth wouldn't be strong enough to compete with the iron sand

Immunity to Fire Techniques - would become useless in the face of this apart from Madara and a few select other's techniques.


Immunity - Water would instead of soaking into it like with ordinary sand would just wipe off.


Immunity against Lightning Melee Attacks as they would electrocute the users themselves except users with Lightning Release Armour

Weakness against very powerful fire techniques are shown to be strong enough to demagnetize his iron apart from a select few.

Weakness against Lightning the Third's Iron Sand as it causes his shield to be become demagnetized as a result meaning he would no longer have control over it. So its desirable if he uses a sand defense against the Third and not a Iron Sand one.


Intelligence: Third Kazekage was a genius who created magnet release from studying and understanding Shukaku's powers to adapt his own techniques, arguably a equal/better feat than Mu creating the first Kekkei Tota as the Third needed knowledge and understanding of these age old Tailed beasts while Mu simply had the idea to combine three base elements. He is also already considered the strongest Kazekage of all time which means he already trumps one country.

We've always said what if Shikumaru had a lot of strength? I think this is the strong version of Shikumaru from the sand village

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Third Raikage's Profile: (Written by Leoj of the Teinken)

Third Raikage​

Is the Third Raikage the strongest Kage of all time? I have strong reasons to believe so.
1) As most of you may know, he was know as the human shield, his defense was indestructible. Nothing was known to actually pierce anything, except for one thing that I'll get to later. Even the Hachibi, arguably the 2nd Stongest Tailed Beast, could not pierce through his shield.

2) He has, as most of the Raikages, super human speed. He's as fast as the current Raikage, A. Please, take note that the only person fast than A was Minato. Still, The Third Raikage was even stronger than A. No doubt.
3) The Jigo *Kudzuki Yonhon Nukite, also known as the hell stab, similar to the chidori, but only stronger. The Third could also seal the Hachibi after every time it would go out of control....by himself. By doing that he would use the sealing technique:

Kohaku no Jōhei.
So the Third had the lightning release armour, knew lightning release, took on th e Hachibi, he knew Black Lightning ( this is whom Darui learned the technique from, took on 10,000 shinobi single-handedly, he uses the hell stab; the only weapon able to penetrate his Lightning Release armor, and a Rasen-Shuriken couldn't even penetrate his shield.
So now the only people I can see beating the Third Raikage are Hashirama, just because, well, he's the person Madara has the most toward, acknowledging him as his better. And Minato, only because he's faster and specializes on wind-release techniques.

Why the Third Kazekage is stronger than the Third Raikage ?



The main ways the Third Kazekage can combine these things into an overall advantage is:

1) Speed/Distance Advantage
The Third Kazekage can use his Iron sand to fly to give himself a good distance between the Third Raikage. Then he warps the terrain by covering the ground in iron sand to decrease the Third Raikage's speed overall.

2) Immunity to the Third's Attacks
Being at such a distance gives the Third Kazekage immunity to all melee attacks performed by the Raikage and he can also use the method to divert all of the Third Raikage's projectiles attacks (lightning shots that have a decent range) mainly his black lightning back to the iron covered terrain to use the Third Raikage's own attack against him thus electrocuting him. This prevents the Third Raikage from using his Lightning Release Ninjutsu which makes up for a very large bulk of his attacks.


Alternative arugments on why the Third Raikage could win:

1)Lightning's known ability to demagnetize Iron Sand
However it has also been argued that the Third's lightning should be able to demagnitize the Kazekage's Iron but can easily be countered by using his magnet release Kekkei Genkai to remagnitize the iron sand thus recyling it once it has served its purpose.

2) His Raw Speed, Power and Strength
All of these advantages have tend to be physical, meaning he is lacking in intelletcual feats would be far outsmarted by the Third Kazekage. Not to mention the Kazekage's numerous methods to obtain flight means that there would be little to no physical confrontation in the fight making it so that the Third Raikage cannot exercise any of his advantages.

3) Third Raikage's impenetrable defense
It is argued that none of the Third Kazekage's attack would pierce his skin, while that being true he has a whole range of attack styles to choose from unlike the Raikage who is dependent on his raw speed and power than simply getting out of range makes him fairly useless.

The Third Kazekage could use these attacks:

-Redirecting the Third Raikage's Lighting Projectiles

-Using his iron sand to enter his body through his nose/mouth causing his lungs to become heavy and suffocate the Raikage.

-Same as the above method only using poisoned iron sand

The Third Kazekage's Elemental Advantages with his Iron Sand

Spoiler

Immunity to Most Fire Techniques - would become useless in the face of this apart from Madara and a few select other's techniques.

Immunity - Water would instead of soaking into it like with ordinary sand would just wipe off.

Immunity - Even the most powerful wind techniques won't do much damage, a hurricane vs a iron house?

Immunity - Earth wouldn't be strong enough to compete with the iron sand

Immunity against Lightning Melee Attacks as they would electrocute the users themselves (excluding the Third Raikage - Lightning Armour)

Weakness against Lightning Projectiles -The iron conducts lightning so the iron sand can't be touching him physically as a Armour otherwise it becomes like a electrified fence/cage.

Weakness against very powerful fire techniques are shown to be strong enough to demagnetize his iron apart from a select few.

Lightning also weakens the Third's Iron Sand as it causes his shield to be become demagnitized as a result meaning he would no longer have control over it. So its desirable if he uses a sand defense against the Third and not a Iron Sand one.

Also if you check the the spoiler tag above on the Third Kazekage's elemental strengths and weaknesses, you would see that whatever other chakra natures the third has would just back fire on him.

The Third Kazekage's Iron Sand Bullets which are propelled by repulsion of the Magnet Release technique could reach speed close to the Third's because of the nature of magnetism, and each hit could be electrocuting until the third's body is worn out by electrocution, not to mention no matter how hard his exterior his heart and brain can only take so much electrocution. Also the speed of which repulsed magnitizied projectiles is absolutely insane that far exceeds the Third's speed meaning it could be possibly fast enough to cause him harm but not penetrate his defense.

Other points to consider:

Spoiler

Hell Stab is said to be the signature move of the Third Raikage, a superior version of Chidori. By nature its a lightning physical attack that requires direct contact on the person you need to hit.

The Third Kazekage's Iron Armour Defense (ideal shape would be in a incomplete sphere which doesn't touch the ground but has an inside where the 3rd is safely touching the ground)

Finally, in scientific terms iron conducts electricity so the lighting for the Hell Stab would electrify the defense to a devastating voltage which would reflect the effects to the user of the Jutsu as the full circuit would circulate and hit the third raikage with his own attack. This only applies if the third is not using Lightning armour as he becomes immune to it.

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What do you guys think, who would win the Third Kazekage or the Third Raikage?

 

[rdatta]

3rd raikage will beat the hell out of 3rd kazekage:nexus:

 

[FallenMercy]

holy shiit

 

[snake orochimaru]

nice analysis! the problem is that we can't say for sure who's going to win because they both had very little screen time (we haven't even seen 3rd Kazegake I think...except for some random panel); it's the same thing with "prime" Hiruzen, Hasirama, Tobirama...etc.
theoretically the 3rd Kazekage should win. anyway +rep for the effort.

 

[asad70ful]

wow too much to read, i read all,but we dont knw who would win
but +rep for ur work

 

[Pendulum1337]

Well done on a very convincing argument. Alot to read though. 3rd Kazekage seems more beast now than id previously thought. Still the 3rd Raikage's skin is virtually impregnable. The only injury he got was self inflicted. So the 3rd Kazekage would have to manipulate him when he attacks to attack himself. Even Hachibi couldn't put a scar on the 3rd Raikage. oath

 

[Flash]

Good u wrote some stuff in red highlights....lol

 

[Negative Knight]

Lol ah i was hoping for some raikage supporters to post on this thread, the wall of text must be holding them back

 

[Shinozgr8]

idk...

 

[Negative Knight]

yea i doubt the hell stab would back fire and hurt him instead i mean hes covered in lightning half the time anyway so thats kinda pointless

Ok surrounding the Third Raikage in iron sand the exact moment his hell stab hits should have desired effect

 

[Kratos of cruxis]

1.No the 3rd kazekage didnt create magnet release its a kkg
2.sasori did fight him remember he said he had a hard time killing him
3.no he cant blood bend or he would have used it against sakura or the 4th would have used it also

But everything else I kinda agree with

 

[Zeref]

not bad

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

no he cant blood bend or he would have used it against sakura

he had no reason to when toying around. 4th might have used it.

 

[Negative Knight]

1.No the 3rd kazekage didnt create magnet release its a kkg
2.sasori did fight him remember he said he had a hard time killing him
3.no he cant blood bend or he would have used it against sakura or the 4th would have used it also

But everything else I kinda agree with

Lol was expecting some more oppositon to Third Kazekage > Third Raikage, not flaming but instead a debate can't wait till Leoj comes online

 

[ItachiSan03]

How would the kazekage's iron electrocute the third raikage? I'm pretty sure raiton armor gives the user immunity to electricity. The third raikage is also way too fast for the kazekage's more powerful attacks and could tank the faster weaker ones. I also doubt that there is enough iron in blood so that the kazekage could acutally move people around with it.

 

[Negative Knight]

How would the kazekage's iron electrocute the third raikage? I'm pretty sure raiton armor gives the user immunity to electricity. The third raikage is also way too fast for the kazekage's more powerful attacks and could tank the faster weaker ones. I also doubt that there is enough iron in blood so that the kazekage could acutally move people around with it.

There's a limit to human speed but the kazekage's iron when repulsed to the maximum can far exceed his speed when thought about logically, have you heard of the Geneva Electron collider ? It uses magnetism to reach dangerous speeds similar to what the Third could do.

Also condensing his iron to the point where its stronger than the third's attacks is pretty possible

 

[ItachiSan03]

There's a limit to human speed but the kazekage's iron when repulsed to the maximum can far exceed his speed when thought about logically, have you heard of the Geneva Electron collider ? It uses magnetism to reach dangerous speeds similar to what the Third could do.

Also condensing his iron to the point where its stronger than the third's attacks is pretty possible

Never heard of the geneva electron collider, but from what we've seen from the kazekage his attacks arent all that fast. I doubt he could make his large scale attacks faster than amaterasu.

Im not exactly sure what you're trying to say in your second paragraph though, could you please clarify?

 

[Negative Knight]

Never heard of the geneva electron collider, but from what we've seen from the kazekage his attacks arent all that fast. I doubt he could make his large scale attacks faster than amaterasu.

Im not exactly sure what you're trying to say in your second paragraph though, could you please clarify?

The Third is able to condense his iron sand so it could get to the point where it could act as a defense to the Third's attacks similar to how strong the Third's skin is.

Basically he has a upgraded version of Gaara's defense that's harder and condense to become even stronger

 

[-Logic-]

I personally thing that the Third Raikage > Third Kazekage on the basis of two things;

His stamina/hype;

Spoiler

The Third Raikage was shown to have a ridiculous amount of Stamina, as he battled10,000 Shinobi for 3 days (I think it was) and he came out on top.

Obviously people will assume that these guys were just fodder, but either way, even if they were, 10,000 is a lot, and for him to even have the Stamina and strength to keep fighting for that long is ridiculous.

His black lightning and his assumed speed that comes with it;

Spoiler

Obviously this guy was a beast, for him to go toe to toe with the Gyuuki is hype enough, but this guy even had the Black Lightning, a fearsome Kekkei Genkai indeed. Now, we know that using a Raiton Shroud increases your speed and raw power as demonstrated by the Raikage, so if Black Lightning is an improved version it is logical to assume that he'd be even faster with this particular type of Raiton.

Overall he wins because of his speed, power and his stamina. tbh we haven't seen much from the 3rd Kazekage so it's harder to determine who would win, but personally, I'd go with the 3rd Raikage ​

 

[ItachiSan03]

The Third is able to condense his iron sand so it could get to the point where it could act as a defense to the Third's attacks similar to how strong the Third's skin is.

Basically he has a upgraded version of Gaara's defense that's harder and condense to become even stronger

It's possible, we'll never know though. I don't see the kazekage making a defense that can stop the Hell stab, i also doubt that the kazekage's iron shield could keep up with the raikage.