Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

[Negative Knight]

Second Mizukage vs Second Hokage
​

As with my last Thread this is a thread exploring a largely underrated/not talked about Kage of History and pitting him against a very well known Kage to show how strong this unknown Kage really is.

This is a thread showing why the Second Mizukage can arguably stronger than the Second Hokage. However this thread doesn't account for Edo Tensei

The Second Mizukage has shown a great feat of beating Muu (The 2nd Tschuikage) at the cost of his own life, so read the thread before claiming Tobirama is the best ever.

Second Mizukage
​

-Water Release is one of the basic elemental nature transformation techniques that allow the user to manipulate pre-existing water, or create their own, by turning their chakra into water.

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-Yin Release techniques, based on the spiritual energy that governs the imagination, can be used to create form out of nothingness.

Hydrification Technique
This ability granted to him from the Hozuki clan allows the Second Mizukage to liquefy his entire body from any given moment from his hair to his organs and muscle. This technique unique to the clan allows the second mizukage to change from solid to liquid at any time. It is useful for infiltration missions, avoiding attacks, escaping somewhere and etc.

-Suigestsu using the Hydrifiaction Technique

Spoiler

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-Ability to absorb all Water Ninjutsu
This is a unique ability granted to the Hozuki clan for the unique Nature Transformation which allows the Second Mizukage to absorb all water Ninjutsu attacks when they are in liquid state, not only does the attack prove less than useless it can give various advantages to the caster of the transformation at the moment of the attack.


-Increase in Size for the Volume of water in surrounding area
The added benefit of absorbing water ninjutsu using the method the Hozuki clan means that the rules of liquids dictate that the caster of the transformation includes this increased volume into their new size and can become infinitely larger because of the ever increasing nature of water. It allows the Second Mizukage to cast water Ninjutsu on a much bigger scale, transform the top of their bodies into solid state and the bottom into liquid state meaning a overall gain in size.

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-Teleportation (if the terrain is covered in water)
If the Terrain as a substantially large water source nearby or itself is a water source, then the Hozuki nature transformation can be used to travel into the water and reappear anywhere in the given water source quicker even than the flying thunder god technique as soon as the caster of the jutsu includes themselves into the water source, they are already anywhere and everywhere on the battlefield.

-Intangibility means no Taijutsu would work on him
The nature transformation also grants the Second Mizukage intangibility against most attacks excluding certain Ninjutsu e.g. high scale fire techniques (Madara's for example) or all lightning techniques in general as they are the key weakness to this jutsu. Taijutsu and all other elemental ninjutsu are rendered useless as this technique is very similar to Tobi's only the Second Mizukage is in liquid state rather than being untouchable. However it remains the same in idea that in liquid form the user cannot be hit or harmed.


-Ability to warp shape and form
This allows the second mizukage to change shape and form into whatever he sees fit for the situation of the battle. He can as shown by Suigetsu in the previous picture to solidify half his body and liquefy the other half, he can grow extra limbs if necessary, he can liquefy his entire body apart from certain limbs to maintain both his shape and intangibility.

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Water Bullet Technique
Using the Hydrification Technique, the user forms a finger gun and fires a droplet of water at the intended target with tremendous force from their index finger, enough to easily pierce through a sand clone

-Infinte Oiled-Based Water Clone Explosion Jutsu
The second Mizukage creates a clone which resembles a chibi version of himself which made from the oil and water in his body. The water in the clone is surrounded by a thin layer of oil and due to this structure, the clone's temperature can easily be altered from cold to hot and vice-versa. When it exerts itself, the outer layer of oil heats up and evaporates the water inside. As the internal pressure builds, the clone expands until it violently explodes and the water vapour is released. This vapour then cools down as it rises and as a result, turns into hail that cools the clone, causing it to shrink to its original size and start the entire process again.

-Summoning Technique: Giant Clam

The Second Mizukage summons a Giant clam to assist him in battle, which creates a foggy mist and simultaneously casts a very powerful Mirage Genjutsu.

-Mirage Genjutsu
A wide-range genjutsu where the Second Mizukage, in conjunction with his summon, is able to manifest realistic mirages using the mist exuded by the clam. As it is impossible for observers to distinguish from the real thing through normal methods, this property makes the technique ideal for concealing the actual location of either individual, resulting in confusion amongst the opposition as their attacks are rendered ineffective and they attempt to ascertain the pair's true positions.

-Strengths and Weaknesses against other elements (Hozuki Transformation)

Strengthened by Water techniques as they increase the overall volume of the user of the technique.

Immunity to Wind Techniques as they only work if of a massive magnitude against a increased volume Hozuki user.

Immunity to Earth Techniques as they are solid and usually require the user to hit the opponent directly. Earth traps will also fail as the user can simply seep out of the technique.

Immunity to most fire techniques as the Water > Fire nature of things, but there are exceptions for certain fire techniques and fire release users.

Weakness against very strong fire techniques as the intensity means the user evaporates the user or simply overwhelms the water based technique.

Severe Weakness against lightning as the whole user becomes a liquid (impure water) means that the Di-Charged nature of water (containing both positive and negative minerals) means that it conducts electricity so dangerous and efficiently means the user is electrocuted over and over as they are a complete circuit.

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Second Hokage​

Sensory Finger Technique
By touching the ground with his index finger he was able to sense, if there were enemies nearby and how many enemies. This was a powerful sensory technique and was shown to detect 20 elite Kumogakure Ninjas who were far enough away for the group to have a quick conversation formulating a plan to escape.

Space-Time Ninjutsu Technique
According to Minato, Tobirama was very skilled in the art of Space-Time Ninjutsu, it is assumed that he possessed the same ability as Minato rather than intangibility as that seems like a unique ability exclusive to Tobi because of the nature of his sharingan.

Very High Magnitude Water Release Techniques
Tobirama could perform very high magnitude water releases attacks whether there was a nearby water source or not. He had very high chakra reserves and could make very large bodies of water only with his mouth. He is hailed and recognised as the best water user in the entire Naruto verse, one great feat of his water Ninjutsu is that he could perform: Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique with one seal when it takes most other water uses 18 seals to perform the same technique.

Edo Tensei: Impure World Resurrection Technique
This Technique allowed Tobirama to collect DNA from someone who had previously died and through a complex method revive them using a dead body as a starting point for the new body to reform over the dead one. However this Jutsu wasn't mastered by Tobirama as he labelled it a Kinjutsu and prevented it from being taught due to the nature defying act of bringing the dead to life.

Why the Second Mizukage is stronger than the Second Hokage?
The main way the Second Mizukage can combine all of these things into an overall advantage is through these things:

1) Absorbing all of the Second Hokage's Very High Magnitude Water Techniques
The Second Mizukage can absorb all of the Second Hokage's water ninjutsu to become progressively stronger and larger in direct proportion into the amount of water he absorbs. Also because of the high magntiude nature of the Second Hokage's techniques he'll be at a very big disadvantage the larger the Jutsu he uses on the Second Mizukage. This is much like a Kisame and chakra relationship only its specific to a type of element.

2) Immune to the Second Hokage's High Prowess Taijutsu
This is a obvious point which basically means the Second Hokage's very high taijutsu skills become useless in the face of the Second Mizukage because of the intangible nature of water meaning he can not be hit by the Second Hokage with either his ninjutsu or taijutsu.

3) Pseudo combination of Minato and Tobi's Space Time Ninjutsu
The Second Mizukage can be like i said earlier anywhere and everywhere all at once if he leads or makes the battle go in the direction of a nearby water source, combined with his intangibility when in liquid state it becomes a form of S/T Ninjutsu which encompasses both Minato's Speed (much faster as it is instanteous, less than 0 seconds in length) and Tobi's intangibility (inability to be harmed in liquid state apart from certain ninjutsu).

4) Oil Based Techniques and the Thunder sword was a filler
The thunder sword wasn't in the manga and was just a filler episode to make a story whch wasn't really there. Also the main point is highlighted by Gyatasuku that the 2nd Mizukage's oil based techniques is a natural insulator so this would allow the Mizukage to counter act the Second Hokage's filler Thunder sword even if it is used as a argument on why Tobirama would win.

The Second Mizukage's Elemental Advantage with Hozuki Nature Transformation

Spoiler

Strengthened by Water techniques as they increase the overall volume of the user of the technique.

Immunity to Wind Techniques as they only work if of a massive magnitude against a increased volume Hozuki user.

Immunity to Earth Techniques as they are solid and usually require the user to hit the opponent directly. Earth traps will also fail as the user can simply seep out of the technique.

Immunity to most fire techniques as the Water > Fire nature of things, but there are exceptions for certain fire techniques and fire release users.

Weakness against very strong fire techniques as the intensity means the user evaporates the user or simply overwhelms the water based technique.

Severe Weakness against lightning as the whole user becomes a liquid (impure water) means that the Di-Charged nature of water (containing both positive and negative minerals) means that it conducts electricity so dangerous and efficiently means the user is electrocuted over and over as they are a complete circuit.

If you check the above spoiler tag you will see the Tobirama's main and only chakra nature (the one he specializes in) will backfire in direct proportion to how strong his water technique is, in the relationship the higher the magnitude of the water technique, the greater the disadvantage Tobirama puts himself in.

Other Tactics usable by the Second Mizukage

Spoiler

The Second Mizukage could use a Infinite Exploding Clone + The Hydrification Technique as a final resort. First the Second Mizukage can use his Exploding Clone to distract the Hokage momentarily, then fuse with a immense body of water. This would compensate for his lack of strength while the clone is active as he could get rid of his weakened state but making a giant water body like Suigetsu did in the Killer Bee fight.

While he is distracting the Second Hokage with the Infinite Exploding clone that follows him around, he could damage him heavily by bombarding him with heavy bodies of water while the Clone keeps on tracking him.

As a last resort if the Second Hokage starts gaining the advantage because of the Mizukage's weakeaned state, he could merge with a very large water source and stay undercover while the Clone does damage to the overall terrain.

The Second Mizukage's oil-based clone technique can act as a constant distraction and disadvanatage to Tobirama as not only will he have to fight the Second Mizukage but constantly avoid the clone to prevent himself being caught in the destructive blast. Also the infinite nature of the the technique (reversible reaction which acts independently) means that it would act as a constant obstacle to the Second Hokage through the fight. Theoretically it could be seen as a 2 vs 1 advantage.

Alternative Argument on why the Second Hokage could win

1) If the Battle happens Hot/Dry Terrain (e.g. in a Desert)
As shown with Suigetsu, the Second Mizukage needs a constant supply of water though not drastically, however this effect is signifcantly worsened when he is a hot/dry terrain, most likely a desert and to counter this effect Suigetsu always takes regular breaks to rehydrate himself and always carries a constant supply of water. If the Second Hokage realizes his technqiue quickly enough then he would know not to supply the Second Mizukage with water through his Water Release Techniques.

2) The Second Hokage's use of Edo Tensei
This is a very big factor, if this battles occurs when the 2nd Hokage stopped using the technique and labelled it a Kinjutsu, then it will not be a factor. However it cannot be discounted. Also it is also highly dependent on who the Second Hokage revives as the Second Mizukage's Hozuki Transformation has been shown to counter act and be immune to all elements apart from lightning and very powerful fire technique users. If the Second Hokage does this then he would obviously gain the advantage and no longer need to rely on his Water Release Ninjutsu or high prowess Taijutsu.

3) The Extent of the Second Hokage's Space-Time Ninjutsu
If the Second Hokage's S/T Ninjutsu rivaled or even came close to that of Minato's then it would be the battle of intangibility and like with the fight of Tobi and Minato whoever can land the first one hit kill. The Second would gain the speed advantage but if the Second Mizukage locates a nearby water source and completely submerges himself in it, he would gain the advantage by far. If not then the battle could easily go either way.

Other Points to consider:

Spoiler

This thread hasn't even considered the dangerous effects of the Second Mizukage's ultimate Mirage Genjutsu which he could use in conjunction with the clone technique to attack and defend without lifting a finger (once the preparations are set). Also the explosion won't harm the clam because the genjutsu casts a fake version of both the Second Mizukage and the Clam which are hard to tell from the original.

The Second Hokage cannot use Taijutsu in the battle because of how useless it becomes in the face of the Second Mizukage in liquid form and he cannot use water ninjutsu (his main offensive) which strengthens the mizukage. Also his S/T ninjutsu is countered by the ability of attaining a combination of Minato's and Tobi's S/T Jutsus combined in a water filled area.

Finally, this thread has shown simply with his Nature Transformation the Second Mizukage has created a ultimate defense against the Hokage's Main offensive methods, a greater version of S/T Ninjutsu than both Minato and Tobi when fighting in or near a water source.

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What do you guys think who would win, the Second Hokage or the Second Mizukage?

Also i need someone to make a Bio for the Second Hokage to add to this thread, please notify me if you will

Proof that the Third Kazekage > The Third Raikage -

You must be registered for see links

 

[Οdin]

Never. U_U

 

[Deadai]

hmmm...You bring up some good points in this I agree I dont think Tobirama can beat someone whom can turn into water with water.

 

[Moon eye plan]

>> Edo tensei

 

[Konohas Itachi]

Never. U_U

Why do you think he doesnt stand a chance?

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

We don't know crap about tobirama to be fair

 

[Netsui]

We can't say because Tobirama is a Hokage we don't know much about. We only seen him once, and we don't even know everything about him. We can't compare Tobirama to a lot of characters because we lack knowledge about him.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Second Mizukage vs Second Hokage
​

As with my last Thread this is a thread exploring a largely underrated/not talked about Kage of History and pitting him against a very well known Kage to show how strong this unknown Kage really is.

This is a thread showing why the Second Mizukage can arguably stronger than the Second Hokage. However this thread doesn't account for Edo Tensei

The Second Mizukage has shown a great feat of beating Muu (The 2nd Tschuikage) at the cost of his own life, so read the thread before claiming Tobirama is the best ever.


Why the Second Mizukage is stronger than the Second Hokage?
The main way the Second Mizukage can combine all of these things into an overall advantage is through these things:

1) Absorbing all of the Second Hokage's Very High Magnitude Water Techniques
The Second Mizukage can absorb all of the Second Hokage's water ninjutsu to become progressively stronger and larger in direct proportion into the amount of water he absorbs. Also because of the high magntiude nature of the Second Hokage's techniques he'll be at a very big disadvantage the larger the Jutsu he uses on the Second Mizukage. This is much like a Kisame and chakra relationship only its specific to a type of element.

2) Immune to the Second Hokage's High Prowess Taijutsu
This is a obvious point which basically means the Second Hokage's very high taijutsu skills become useless in the face of the Second Mizukage because of the intangible nature of water meaning he can not be hit by the Second Hokage with either his ninjutsu or taijutsu.

3) Pseudo combination of Minato and Tobi's Space Time Ninjutsu
The Second Mizukage can be like i said earlier anywhere and everywhere all at once if he leads or makes the battle go in the direction of a nearby water source, combined with his intangibility when in liquid state it becomes a form of S/T Ninjutsu which encompasses both Minato's Speed (much faster as it is instanteous, less than 0 seconds in length) and Tobi's intangibility (inability to be harmed in liquid state apart from certain ninjutsu).

The Second Mizukage's Elemental Advantage with Hozuki Nature Transformation

Spoiler

Strengthened by Water techniques as they increase the overall volume of the user of the technique.

Immunity to Wind Techniques as they only work if of a massive magnitude against a increased volume Hozuki user.

Immunity to Earth Techniques as they are solid and usually require the user to hit the opponent directly. Earth traps will also fail as the user can simply seep out of the technique.

Immunity to most fire techniques as the Water > Fire nature of things, but there are exceptions for certain fire techniques and fire release users.

Weakness against very strong fire techniques as the intensity means the user evaporates the user or simply overwhelms the water based technique.

Severe Weakness against lightning as the whole user becomes a liquid (impure water) means that the Di-Charged nature of water (containing both positive and negative minerals) means that it conducts electricity so dangerous and efficiently means the user is electrocuted over and over as they are a complete circuit.

If you check the above spoiler tag you will see the Tobirama's main and only chakra nature (the one he specializes in) will backfire in direct proportion to how strong his water technique is, in the relationship the higher the magnitude of the water technique, the greater the disadvantage Tobirama puts himself in.

The Second Mizukage's oil-based clone technique can act as a constant distraction and disadvanatage to Tobirama as not only will he have to fight the Second Mizukage but constantly avoid the clone to prevent himself being caught in the destructive blast. Also the infinite nature of the the technique (reversible reaction which acts independently) means that it would act as a constant obstacle to the Second Hokage through the fight. Theoretically it could be seen as a 2 vs 1 advantage.


Other Points to consider:

Spoiler

This thread hasn't even considered the dangerous effects of the Second Mizukage's ultimate Mirage Genjutsu which he could use in conjunction with the clone technique to attack and defend without lifting a finger (once the preparations are set). Also the explosion won't harm the clam because the genjutsu casts a fake version of both the Second Mizukage and the Clam which are hard to tell from the original.

The Second Hokage cannot use Taijutsu in the battle because of how useless it becomes in the face of the Second Mizukage in liquid form and he cannot use water ninjutsu (his main offensive) which strengthens the mizukage. Also his S/T ninjutsu is countered by the ability of attaining a combination of Minato's and Tobi's S/T Jutsus combined in a water filled area.

Finally, this thread has shown simply with his Nature Transformation the Second Mizukage has created a ultimate defense against the Hokage's Main offensive methods, a greater version of S/T Ninjutsu than both Minato and Tobi when fighting in or near a water source.

You must be registered for see images

What do you guys think who would win, the Second Hokage or the Second Mizukage?

Also i need someone to make a Bio for the Second Hokage to add to this thread, please notify me if you will

Proof that the Third Kazekage > The Third Raikage -

You must be registered for see links

Normally you post both sides of the story
Tobirama went down as the most powerful water user in history can make the most strongest water justu with a single hand.Also has the YIN release.
dabled in spacetime known as the edo tensei and could detect anyuone within the area by simply touching the ground and had the legendary lightning blade.And you think he is going to lose because of some oil ? You are ridiculous.

It would be a nice match but do not count the 2nd out before you even post up his abilities

 

[Gatsuuga]

What about Tobirama's prowess in Genjutsu, Space-time and Edo Tensei. Also this battle assumes that they are near a water source.

What if they are in the desert? Suigetsu has shown that he needs to drink a lot of water for his technique so the mizukage may run out unless he has the terrain advantage - althought the same advantage works in Tobirama's favour as well.

 

[Οdin]

Why do you think he doesnt stand a chance?

We have almost no information on Tobirama. While the thread does provide good information, there's no point in making it because we have nothing to help Tobirama with.

 

[Urda]

The Second Mizukage by defult. However, if we have Tobimaru with more information and/or his usage of Edo Tensei, already prep., than I would choose him.

 

[Ninpou]

Sounds legit, except we dont know much about Tobirama.

 

[Negative Knight]

You guys bring up very good points and i'm very open to criticism as it can only make my thread better by giving me something to improve on

I'm going to be adding Tobirama's side tomorrow as right now im just exhausted Lol

Also the guy who said the Oil clone thing, did you even read the thread?

Son of Odin i agree we don't know a lot but we know a sufficient amount to put him up against other people

 

[Drakengard]

I agree that from what we know of him, it's probably not enough considering that you disregarded Edo Tensei. Things like finger sensory make it harder on the Mizukage though (if it does work on the Mizukage). If we find out that the lightning sword was canon than that would be GG lol

We need more members like you in the Narutobase.

/gets faulty responses, greets them kindly

 

[Negative Knight]

I agree that from what we know of him, it's probably not enough considering that you disregarded Edo Tensei. Things like finger sensory make it harder on the Mizukage though (if it does work on the Mizukage). If we find out that the lightning sword was canon than that would be GG lol

We need more members like you in the Narutobase.

/gets faulty responses, greets them kindly

Thanks Draken, but honestly from everyone else i was hoping for more comprehensive replies and possibly a debate.

 

[Drakengard]

I guess I just feel bad when the OP writes an essay and gets (semi) trolled x_x not everybody here applies though. But I do question this:

-Teleportation (if the terrain is covered in water)
If the Terrain as a substantially large water source nearby or itself is a water source, then the Hozuki nature transformation can be used to travel into the water and reappear anywhere in the given water source quicker even than the flying thunder god technique as soon as the caster of the jutsu includes themselves into the water source, they are already anywhere and everywhere on the battlefield.

Was this stated somewhere I didn't know about?

 

[Sataniclion]

tbh i don't really care who is stronger lol no offence to your thread and impressive work on writing and expressing your ideas on why so-and-so beats so-and-so

 

[Vandenre1ch]

The Second Mizukage cant beat Tobirama. If he could turn his body into why didnt he? Suigetsu and Mangetsu's liquifying ability came form orochimarus experiments.

 

[Negative Knight]

I guess I just feel bad when the OP writes an essay and gets (semi) trolled x_x not everybody here applies though. But I do question this:

Was this stated somewhere I didn't know about?

Yeah when the user becomes liquid as shown by Suigetsu, the entire body of water becomes part of them. They can then choose anywhere from their liquid state to solidify and reappear out of the water

tbh i don't really care who is stronger lol no offence to your thread and impressive work on writing and expressing your ideas on why so-and-so beats so-and-so

None taken Lol, everyone's opinion and honestly i feel the same about many threads

e.g. Nagato and Naurto, Tobi and Madara and anything like that

 

[Hipster Madara]

Edo tensei......
Tobirama wins.