Proof SM Jiraya is stronger than Itachi

Thread starter Bogard
Start date Dec 8, 2012

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸

Supreme

Dec 8, 2012

#1

Well since my previous thread was closed, i decided to recreate the thread with some little modifications because it seems that some Itachi fans don't agree with me concerning Tsukuyomi especially

In this thread i'm comparing SM Jiraya to Itachi. To compare them i'll try my best to show you effectiv counters that SM Jiraya would have against Itachi and what makes me believe he would defeat him if there was a fight between them. Hope you enjoy reading

How SM Jiraya counters Itachi's genjutsus:

In SM, Jiraya has Pa and Ma on his shoulders all the time, which means that the use of genjutsu will be useless since they could just disturb his chakra like the partner method works. In this case, only Tsukuyomi could be a problem since it takes effect in an instant, but personally i believe that the fact that Jiraya continuously receive sennin mode chakra makes the use of even tsukuyomi useless against him:

You must be registered for see images

For those who don't believe in what i said, there is still counters for Tsukuyomi that Jiraya can use like using

You must be registered for see links

for example. Jiraya has a large chakra pool, so using Kage Bunshins as a bet is not a problem for him. He even already has

You must be registered for see links

by seeing Itachi using it on Sasuke and

You must be registered for see links

caused by the genjutsu in question, so he would obviously be more cautious if he were to fight Itachi if he wasn't already(he must obviously have great knowledge on Sharingan judging by his experience and the fact he was able to easily dispel Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu on

You must be registered for see links

).

People always fail to realise that genjutsu(in particularly tsukuyomi) isn't automatic. A direct eye contact is needed for genjutsu and even when this direct eye contact happens, Itachi still has to concentrate the chakra necessary for the genjutsu rapidely and cast the genjutsu at that exact same moment. Furthermore, tsukuyomi is a MS jutsu, so Itachi has to activate MS to even begin to think about using tsukuyomi. Itachi can't cast tsukuyomi with Sharingan let alone without it. If Jiraya notices that Itachi turned his Sharingan into MS, again, he would be more cautious. Also, tsukuyomi is even described in the databook as a

You must be registered for see links

, so if Jiraya uses long range attacks and fight carefully, i don't see why he would be trapped by tsukuyomi

How Jiraya counters Amaterasu:

Jman already has

You must be registered for see links

. So he would be really cautious if he were to fight Itachi. Contrary to the popular belief, amaterasu is a

You must be registered for see links

that appears instantly withing a certain range, and from there begins

You must be registered for see links

the target(it's the reason why eventhough it almost appeared on Raikage, he had time to shunshin out of the way) and

You must be registered for see links

depending on where the user focuses. What i mean by that is that if a target is outside the range of amaterasu, it would be easier for him to notice it and therefore counter it with something in his arsenal. Sasuke for example was able

You must be registered for see links

during a while and use a

You must be registered for see links

to counter the jutsu. Killer-Bee also used a subtitution when he had no knowledge on the jutsu, and with knowledge he has shown that it was even able

You must be registered for see links

before he uses Amaterasu(which shows btw that Amaterasu needs some time of concentration to be released).

Jman with his superior speed/taijutsu and sensing abilities could do the same if not better. Jiraya who even already has knowledge on the jutsu, also has natural counters for this like

You must be registered for see links

(burning a KB is useless). Even without knowledge in part1, he directly created a counter for it in an instant with a

You must be registered for see links

In Sage Mode, he even has sensing abilities, and we've seen that a sensor like Nagato could

You must be registered for see links

by noticing the pressure. Therefore, he can attack the user before he even uses it like Killer-Bee did. Since Itachi needs some concentration at that moment like we see on the same pic, Jiraya could take advantage of this like Bee did, and Itachi could be killed by

You must be registered for see links

for example, or even

You must be registered for see links

or by this:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

How does Jiraya counter Susanoo:

Gaara helped us to know that

You must be registered for see links

. Well, Jiraya has a perfect counter for this with

You must be registered for see links

(Jiraya even said it was

You must be registered for see links

). It would totally make sink Itachi in this position with or without his Susanoo

If they are fighting in an enclosed area, Jiraya could capture him(Susanoo or not) in

You must be registered for see links

like he already did in part1. He can also create an opening to capture him in the

You must be registered for see links

like he did against Pain

Sasuke made us understand

You must be registered for see links

because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have

You must be registered for see links

(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his

You must be registered for see links

or

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

or even something else in his arsenal.

We also know thanks to Kabuto, that

You must be registered for see links

, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

These are the reasons why i believe SM Jiraya has all what it takes to defeat Itachi

Last edited: Dec 8, 2012

S

Sharinganuser10

Member

Dec 8, 2012

#2

fail thread and dumb match up

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸

Supreme

Dec 8, 2012

#3

Sharinganuser10 said:
fail thread and dumb match up

Opinion coming from a Uchiha fanboy who doesn't take time to read the thread means nothing for me

Sami3

Banned

Dec 8, 2012

#4

I dont konw they are both really strong, It would be a great fight.

Anduril

Kage in the Making 👑

Legendary

Dec 8, 2012

#5

Well when the anime itself has said that Itachi can go toe to toe with Jiraiya... what's all the fuss about??

It has been clearly mentioned that Itachi = Jiraiya

S

Sharinganuser10

Member

Dec 8, 2012

#6

Anduril said:
Well when the anime itself has said that Itachi can go toe to toe with Jiraiya... what's all the fuss about??

It has been clearly mentioned that Itachi = Jiraiya

Exactly. Thats why this is a fail thread. Pay attention OP. The responses dont lie

AWSUM SID

Jōnin Strategist 🧠

Regular

Dec 8, 2012

#7

Anduril said:
Well when the anime itself has said that Itachi can go toe to toe with Jiraiya... what's all the fuss about??

It has been clearly mentioned that Itachi = Jiraiya

^^ this. Itachi= Jiraiya.

Gatsuuga

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜

Elite

Dec 8, 2012

#8

Since Ma and Pa are on his shoulders doesn't that automatically cancel any genjutsu in any form (including Tsukiyomi). There purpose is to collect and transfer nature chakra that then transfers to Jiriaya. He will be constantly receiving nature chakra which disrupts his own since it needs to be balanced (otherwise it takes over). So basically his chakra is in permanent disruption as long as Pa and Ma are fused to him.

I forgot about swamp of the underworld, it actually is a very good and very simple counter to susano'o.

Anduril said:
Well when the anime itself has said that Itachi can go toe to toe with Jiraiya... what's all the fuss about??

It has been clearly mentioned that Itachi = Jiraiya

Not that I don't believe you but when did it get stated that Itachi = SM Jiriaya? Anyway the anime isn't canon, so if the O/P is talking strictly manga (which I think they are) then it doesn't count.

Last edited: Dec 8, 2012

SpiderRider89

Anbu Operative 🎭

Veteran

Dec 8, 2012

#9

Itachi > Jman

History

Leaf Village Regular 🍃

Regular

Dec 8, 2012

#10

dont need to read to no itachi wins

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸

Supreme

Dec 8, 2012

#11

Gatsuuga said:
Since Ma and Pa are on his shoulders doesn't that automatically cancel any genjutsu in any form (including Tsukiyomi). There purpose is to collect and transfer nature chakra that then transfers to Jiriaya. He will be constantly receiving nature chakra which disrupts his own since it needs to be balanced (otherwise it takes over). So basically his chakra is in permanent disruption as long as Pa and Ma are fused to him.

I forgot about swamp of the underworld, it actually is a very good and very simple counter to susano'o.

It's what i believe as well, but in my previous thread Itachi fans were bashing me when i said that. It's the reason why i gave other counters. And yeah Swamp of underworld is a basic but very easy way to defeat a Susanoo user

NOemotions

Anbu Operative 🎭

Veteran

Dec 8, 2012

#12

Prepare for itachi fan girl attack, they will try to bone you, and yes, using proper logic i'd say jiraya wins this.

PretaPath

Banned

Regular

Dec 8, 2012

#13

Really good thread and good arguments,
Itachi ain't got shit on Jman
And the Susanoo part is so true.
Even Itachi admitted not being able to defeat Jman in part 1.

November

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜

Elite

Dec 8, 2012

#14

itachi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>orochimaru>>>jiraya
even kisame can beat that pervert old man mid-diff

Bogard

Legendary Shinobi 🐸

Supreme

Dec 8, 2012

#15

PretaPath said:
Really good thread and good arguments,
Itachi ain't got shit on Jman
And the Susanoo part is so true.
Even Itachi admitted not being able to defeat Jman in part 1.

Thanks, i really did my best to create this thread with enough arguments as back-ups

Gatsuuga

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜

Elite

Dec 8, 2012

#16

Bogard said:
It's what i believe as well, but in my previous thread Itachi fans were bashing me when i said that. It's the reason why i gave other counters. And yeah Swamp of underworld is a basic but very easy way to defeat a Susanoo user

I really don't see why it wouldn't be the case, given what we know about Ma/Pa and sage mode. People tend to argue that Itachi's genjutsu only needs to take 1 second, but if the above holds then it would already be broken before Itachi can even use it. He has to activate, recognise that the jutsu has taken hold then proceed accordingly. Itachi is pretty damn cluey but it would still be broken before he registers its taken hold.

Amaterasu i'm a bit iffy on, but still I see Itachi going for a genjutsu first, failing, jiriaya countering, Itachi susanoo to defend, then swamp of the underworld. Then Itachi is kind of stuck.......

Carlhens

Leaf Village Regular 🍃

Regular

Dec 8, 2012

#17

Nope sir

Llsssss

Member

Dec 8, 2012

#18

Bogard said:
Well since my previous thread was closed, i decided to recreate the thread with some little modifications because it seems that some Itachi fans don't agree with me concerning Tsukuyomi especially

In this thread i'm comparing SM Jiraya to Itachi. To compare them i'll try my best to show you effectiv counters that SM Jiraya would have against Itachi and what makes me believe he would defeat him if there was a fight between them. Hope you enjoy reading

How SM Jiraya counters Itachi's genjutsus:

In SM, Jiraya has Pa and Ma on his shoulders all the time, which means that the use of genjutsu will be useless since they could just disturb his chakra like the partner method works. In this case, only Tsukuyomi could be a problem since it takes effect in an instant, but personally i believe that the fact that Jiraya continuously receive sennin mode chakra makes the use of even tsukuyomi useless against him:

You must be registered for see images

For those who don't believe in what i said, there is still counters for Tsukuyomi that Jiraya can use like using
You must be registered for see links
for example. Jiraya has a large chakra pool, so using Kage Bunshins as a bet is not a problem for him. He even already has
You must be registered for see links
by seeing Itachi using it on Sasuke and
You must be registered for see links
caused by the genjutsu in question, so he would obviously be more cautious if he were to fight Itachi if he wasn't already(he must obviously have great knowledge on Sharingan judging by his experience and the fact he was able to easily dispel Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu on
You must be registered for see links
).

People always fail to realise that genjutsu(in particularly tsukuyomi) isn't automatic. A direct eye contact is needed for genjutsu and even when this direct eye contact happens, Itachi still has to concentrate the chakra necessary for the genjutsu rapidely and cast the genjutsu at that exact same moment. Furthermore, tsukuyomi is a MS jutsu, so Itachi has to activate MS to even begin to think about using tsukuyomi. Itachi can't cast tsukuyomi with Sharingan let alone without it. If Jiraya notices that Itachi turned his Sharingan into MS, again, he would be more cautious. Also, tsukuyomi is even described in the databook as a
You must be registered for see links
, so if Jiraya uses long range attacks and fight carefully, i don't see why he would be trapped by tsukuyomi

How Jiraya counters Amaterasu:

Jman already has
You must be registered for see links
. So he would be really cautious if he were to fight Itachi. Contrary to the popular belief, amaterasu is a
You must be registered for see links
that appears instantly withing a certain range, and from there begins
You must be registered for see links
the target(it's the reason why eventhough it almost appeared on Raikage, he had time to shunshin out of the way) and
You must be registered for see links
depending on where the user focuses. What i mean by that is that if a target is outside the range of amaterasu, it would be easier for him to notice it and therefore counter it with something in his arsenal. Sasuke for example was able
You must be registered for see links
during a while and use a
You must be registered for see links
to counter the jutsu. Killer-Bee also used a subtitution when he had no knowledge on the jutsu, and with knowledge he has shown that it was even able
You must be registered for see links
before he uses Amaterasu(which shows btw that Amaterasu needs some time of concentration to be released).

Jman with his superior speed/taijutsu and sensing abilities could do the same if not better. Jiraya who even already has knowledge on the jutsu, also has natural counters for this like
You must be registered for see links
(burning a KB is useless). Even without knowledge in part1, he directly created a counter for it in an instant with a
You must be registered for see links

In Sage Mode, he even has sensing abilities, and we've seen that a sensor like Nagato could
You must be registered for see links
by noticing the pressure. Therefore, he can attack the user before he even uses it like Killer-Bee did. Since Itachi needs some concentration at that moment like we see on the same pic, Jiraya could take advantage of this like Bee did, and Itachi could be killed by
You must be registered for see links
for example, or even
You must be registered for see links
or by this:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

How does Jiraya counter Susanoo:

Gaara helped us to know that
You must be registered for see links
. Well, Jiraya has a perfect counter for this with
You must be registered for see links
(Jiraya even said it was
You must be registered for see links
). It would totally make sink Itachi in this position with or without his Susanoo

If they are fighting in an enclosed area, Jiraya could capture him(Susanoo or not) in
You must be registered for see links
like he already did in part1. He can also create an opening to capture him in the
You must be registered for see links
like he did against Pain

Sasuke made us understand
You must be registered for see links
because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
You must be registered for see links
(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
You must be registered for see links
or
You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links
or even something else in his arsenal.

We also know thanks to Kabuto, that Itachi can't counter Sound genjutsu, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

These are the reasons why i believe SM Jiraya has all what it takes to defeat Itachi

I start with Amaterasu.
You used killerbee as an example when he got away from the tentical that sasuke cut off saving karin also he may have info on this tech but he doesnt know how it works and you cannot use a sub when you are already caught with this tech jiraiya has never went up against an attack like amaterasu he seen it as black flames nothing more so he wouldnt be so on the egde about the speed but that it burns pretty much anyhting you mention that scroll like it would help in a fight also who to says he last long enough to get sm also itachi could use amaterasu on his frogs.

Susanoo
swamp world wouldnt do anything since susanoo is naturally stationary also you said putting him and the toad mouth trap he need to stay in one spot direct open for totsuska also ma & pa soung genjutsu is dodgeable that why jiraiya needed a tunneled area to use this also they can float to the top of thiere susanoo

You must be registered for see images

Last edited: Dec 8, 2012

SpiderRider89

Anbu Operative 🎭

Veteran

Dec 8, 2012

#19

Bogard said:
Well since my previous thread was closed, i decided to recreate the thread with some little modifications because it seems that some Itachi fans don't agree with me concerning Tsukuyomi especially

In this thread i'm comparing SM Jiraya to Itachi. To compare them i'll try my best to show you effectiv counters that SM Jiraya would have against Itachi and what makes me believe he would defeat him if there was a fight between them. Hope you enjoy reading

How SM Jiraya counters Itachi's genjutsus:

In SM, Jiraya has Pa and Ma on his shoulders all the time, which means that the use of genjutsu will be useless since they could just disturb his chakra like the partner method works. In this case, only Tsukuyomi could be a problem since it takes effect in an instant, but personally i believe that the fact that Jiraya continuously receive sennin mode chakra makes the use of even tsukuyomi useless against him:

You must be registered for see images

For those who don't believe in what i said, there is still counters for Tsukuyomi that Jiraya can use like using
You must be registered for see links
for example. Jiraya has a large chakra pool, so using Kage Bunshins as a bet is not a problem for him. He even already has
You must be registered for see links
by seeing Itachi using it on Sasuke and
You must be registered for see links
caused by the genjutsu in question, so he would obviously be more cautious if he were to fight Itachi if he wasn't already(he must obviously have great knowledge on Sharingan judging by his experience and the fact he was able to easily dispel Itachi's Sharingan genjutsu on
You must be registered for see links
).

People always fail to realise that genjutsu(in particularly tsukuyomi) isn't automatic. A direct eye contact is needed for genjutsu and even when this direct eye contact happens, Itachi still has to concentrate the chakra necessary for the genjutsu rapidely and cast the genjutsu at that exact same moment. Furthermore, tsukuyomi is a MS jutsu, so Itachi has to activate MS to even begin to think about using tsukuyomi. Itachi can't cast tsukuyomi with Sharingan let alone without it. If Jiraya notices that Itachi turned his Sharingan into MS, again, he would be more cautious. Also, tsukuyomi is even described in the databook as a
You must be registered for see links
, so if Jiraya uses long range attacks and fight carefully, i don't see why he would be trapped by tsukuyomi

How Jiraya counters Amaterasu:

Jman already has
You must be registered for see links
. So he would be really cautious if he were to fight Itachi. Contrary to the popular belief, amaterasu is a
You must be registered for see links
that appears instantly withing a certain range, and from there begins
You must be registered for see links
the target(it's the reason why eventhough it almost appeared on Raikage, he had time to shunshin out of the way) and
You must be registered for see links
depending on where the user focuses. What i mean by that is that if a target is outside the range of amaterasu, it would be easier for him to notice it and therefore counter it with something in his arsenal. Sasuke for example was able
You must be registered for see links
during a while and use a
You must be registered for see links
to counter the jutsu. Killer-Bee also used a subtitution when he had no knowledge on the jutsu, and with knowledge he has shown that it was even able
You must be registered for see links
before he uses Amaterasu(which shows btw that Amaterasu needs some time of concentration to be released).

Jman with his superior speed/taijutsu and sensing abilities could do the same if not better. Jiraya who even already has knowledge on the jutsu, also has natural counters for this like
You must be registered for see links
(burning a KB is useless). Even without knowledge in part1, he directly created a counter for it in an instant with a
You must be registered for see links

In Sage Mode, he even has sensing abilities, and we've seen that a sensor like Nagato could
You must be registered for see links
by noticing the pressure. Therefore, he can attack the user before he even uses it like Killer-Bee did. Since Itachi needs some concentration at that moment like we see on the same pic, Jiraya could take advantage of this like Bee did, and Itachi could be killed by
You must be registered for see links
for example, or even
You must be registered for see links
or by this:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

How does Jiraya counter Susanoo:

Gaara helped us to know that
You must be registered for see links
. Well, Jiraya has a perfect counter for this with
You must be registered for see links
(Jiraya even said it was
You must be registered for see links
). It would totally make sink Itachi in this position with or without his Susanoo

If they are fighting in an enclosed area, Jiraya could capture him(Susanoo or not) in
You must be registered for see links
like he already did in part1. He can also create an opening to capture him in the
You must be registered for see links
like he did against Pain

Sasuke made us understand
You must be registered for see links
because of sound vibration. Well, Pa and Ma have
You must be registered for see links
(able to paralyse Pain summons). With this jutsu, it would be easy for SM Jiraya to paralyse Itachi and finish him either with his
You must be registered for see links
or
You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links
or even something else in his arsenal.

We also know thanks to Kabuto, that
You must be registered for see links
, so Pa and Ma use this and he is done for:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

These are the reasons why i believe SM Jiraya has all what it takes to defeat Itachi

While I do believe that Jman is an extremely powerful character, I don't agree with your assumptions on how the battle will play out.

1) Itachi can place someone in Genjutsu simply by pointing at them.... I doubt that Jman would have time to summon anyone before he was caught.

2) Jman isn't faster than Amaterasu and cant simply avoid it by dodging. It takes time for him to access sage mode and during that time period, with Itachi's sharingan... Jman would be to preoccupied to focus on him.

3) Itachi can read hand signs and could clearly see Jman's intent on the jutsu (you presume) that can hit him from below. Plus Itachi can activte Sasuanoo instantly, and could surprise Jman from quite a good distance and seal him away.

I don't know who would actually win the battle (despite my ^ statements) they where just examples of how Itachi could win the battle based on your assumptions.

PretaPath

Banned

Regular

Dec 8, 2012

#20

November Nolove said:
itachi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>orochimaru>>>jiraya
even kisame can beat that pervert old man mid-diff

Lol, sure is Itachi fanboy in here

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