Proof of Kishi thinking ahead.

[Melanee]

sorry, but how is what you said (controlling one's circumstances) connected with destiny and being the chosen-one?

Naruto's belief in changing destiny was out of his own control. What he thought he could do, the opposite happened and he still ended up stuck in a destiny already planned for him. I personally look at it as he had to realize that some things can't be changed, even though from the beginning he never gave up. Neji's death made him realize that saying he would not let his friends die did not mean it wouldn't happen. To me it was kind of like a very harsh learning lesson.

 

[supino]

so, basically Kishi's original idea that one can control his destiny has been retconned in the second half of the story

 

[~Zonta~]

Naruto's belief in changing destiny was out of his own control. What he thought he could do, the opposite happened and he still ended up stuck in a destiny already planned for him. I personally look at it as he had to realize that some things can't be changed, even though from the beginning he never gave up. Neji's death made him realize that saying he would not let his friends die did not mean it wouldn't happen. To me it was kind of like a very harsh learning lesson.

Sorry but I hope you forgot to take in to account the war has not been over yet and more importantly similar thing happened in Pain arc in which people who were killed were revived so IMO in some point time we have change of Heart for Obito and may be we will see the same phenomenon...... So Naruto's beliefs in changing the destiny will happen in due course rather if you say Kishi is planing before hand and thinking ahead then this epic speech of Hinata can considered as stepping stone for it

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as he did for Kakashi-rin-obito

 

[Melanee]

so, basically Kishi's original idea that one can control his destiny has been retconned in the second half of the story

It's hard to say until we see the last chapter of the manga. It's all opinion and assumptions.

Sorry but I hope you forgot to take in to account the war has not been over yet and more importantly similar thing happened in Pain arc in which people who were killed were revived so IMO in some point time we have change of Heart for Obito and may be we will see the same phenomenon...... So Naruto's beliefs in changing the destiny will happen in due course rather if you say Kishi is planing before hand and thinking ahead then this epic speech of Hinata can considered as stepping stone for it

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as he did for Kakashi-rin-obito

If everyone gets revived then I find the whole point of Naruto learning the true ways of a shinobi totally lost. He will always think everyone can be saved by a miracle. I think he's growing right now because he's realizing that words alone can't control destiny. If he wants to change it, he needs to take control with actions. I believe he will change things, but so far Kishimoto seems to keep making his beliefs fall apart around him. There has to be a reason for it. Usually when the hero spouts victory speeches, he wins.

 

[~Zonta~]

It's hard to say until we see the last chapter of the manga. It's all opinion and assumptions.



If everyone gets revived then I find the whole point of Naruto learning the true ways of a shinobi totally lost. He will always think everyone can be saved by a miracle. I think he's growing right now because he's realizing that words alone can't control destiny. If he wants to change it, he needs to take control with actions. I believe he will change things, but so far Kishimoto seems to keep making his beliefs fall apart around him. There has to be a reason for it. Usually when the hero spouts victory speeches, he wins.

Miracle did not happen it was efforts of Naruto and Jiraya which lead nagato to change of heart and believe what he himself stated once but didn't follow the same path here you can see it

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and

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and here

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.....
Word alone can't but naruto hard work and his tenacity to defeat 6 pains lead to the Phenomenon in the pain arc............

Even if things are falling apart but still its too early to predict but I can say this Obito is beginning to show his original self which he was when was on Minato's team with rin and Kakashi.... you'll find him comparing to naruto here in

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......

Hero's beliefs must fall apart first since it used to show desperate and to create hype for the same......

Similar thing goes for Sasuke one time he is shown evil the other time we having crying over Itachi it goes hand in hand..........

 

[Melanee]

Miracle did not happen it was the efforts of Naruto and Jiraya which lead nagato to change of heart and believe what he himself stated once but didn't follow the same path here you can see it

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and

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and here

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.....
Word alone can't but naruto hard work and he tenacity to defeat 6 pains lead to the Phenomenon in the pain arc............
Even if things are falling apart but still to early to predict but I can say this Obito is beginning to show his original self which he was when was on Minato's team with rin and Kakashi.... you find him comparing to naruto here in

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...... Hero's beliefs must fall apart first since it used to show desperate and to create hype for the same...... Similar thing goes for Sasuke one time he is shown evil the other time we having crying over Itachi it goes hand in hand..........

Yes, you made an excellent point there, but people were saying Kishimoto changed his mind and I was saying no, I personally think from the very beginning he's had the same thing planned and the changes are just part of the learning experience for Naruto, not that the creator is suddenly taking a different path. People say Naruto hasn't grown or learned anything. I'm saying right now he's going through one giant lesson and will come out on top, showing everyone he was right from the beginning but is still ironically following a path chosen for him.

His speech to Neji foreshadowed that I think. Neji was right about dying for the main branch, but it wasn't out of duty, but love. He changed his reason for dying, but not his destined fate.

You really think Obito will revive everyone, don't you? I personally hope so myself. These types of manga are supposed to end happy I've been told.

 

[~Zonta~]

Yes, you made an excellent point there, but people were saying Kishimoto changed his mind and I was saying no, I personally think from the very beginning he's had the same thing planned and the changes are just part of the learning experience for Naruto, not that the creator is suddenly taking a different path. People say Naruto hasn't grown or learned anything. I'm saying right now he's going through one giant lesson and will come out on top, showing everyone he was right from the beginning but is still ironically following a path chosen for him.

His speech to Neji foreshadowed that I think. Neji was right about dying for the main branch, but it wasn't out of duty, but love. He changed his reason for dying, but not his destined fate.

You really think Obito will revive everyone, don't you? I personally hope so myself. These types of manga are supposed to end happy I've been told.

hehe thanks.... people might say that Naruto has not grown or learned anything but its Ironic isn't it the person leading the shinobi alliance is a 16 year old kid who is shouldering the burden to save world and not only the kage but most of the Ninja's believe in him who once looked down upon him as ninja....

And yes I agree the war arc is one giant lesson not only for Naruto but to all and Naruto will definitely come on top making everything right which was made worse by the shinobi systems and his predecessors who cared only for respective villages......
First it was saving the village for him and now its just escalated to world but the base is still the same IMO....

Yeah agree Neji died in order to protect his dears ones not out of some burden, duty or responsibility but love and it was epic as well emotional honestly I was shocked neji was the first one.......

yeah I do believe Obito has change of heart and revives everyone since I found his point interesting here

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and I do want Obito to become hero and die instead of reviving madara same goes for Sasuke even if he has done all bad stuffs I want him to become part of team 7 just as shown in part 1.........

Yeah manga should have happy endings lets hope it will. I am not sure how much of it will be true but atleast some would be nice isn't it? Fingers crossed......

 

[The Alchemist]

Of course he plans it..who ever thought he made tobi obito in lastt minute is a stupid idiot..kishi is a genious..creating such a genious story beyond believe!

^This. All authors plan ahead and basically know what the ending will be, but they tend to let things flow so as not to give away too much too soon.

 

[laharl81]

You guys do realise if Neji gets revived he'll be blind right(Byakaugan fades after he dies).
I don't think Kishi will revive everyone unless he's trolling.

 

[Melanee]

hehe thanks.... people might say that Naruto has not grown or learned anything but its Ironic isn't it the person leading the shinobi alliance is a 16 year old kid who is shouldering the burden to save world and not only the kage but most of the Ninja's believe in him who once looked down upon him as ninja....

And yes I agree the war arc is one giant lesson not only for Naruto but to all and Naruto will definitely come on top making everything right which was made worse by the shinobi systems and his predecessors who cared only for respective villages......
First it was saving the village for him and now its just escalated to world but the base is still the same IMO....

Yeah agree Neji died in order to protect his dears ones not out of some burden, duty or responsibility but love and it was epic as well emotional honestly I was shocked neji was the first one.......

yeah I do believe Obito has change of heart and revives everyone since I found his point interesting here

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and I do want Obito to become hero and die instead of reviving madara same goes for Sasuke even if he has done all bad stuffs I want him to become part of team 7 just as shown in part 1.........

Yeah manga should have happy endings lets hope it will. I am not sure how much of it will be true but atleast some would be nice isn't it? Fingers crossed......

It seems we really do see things the same way, but you also opened my eyes to a few points I missed. Thanks for the links!

You guys do realise if Neji gets revived he'll be blind right(Byakaugan fades after he dies).
I don't think Kishi will revive everyone unless he's trolling.

When his father was revived he had the curse seal, so I'm not sure how it works. lol

 

[laharl81]

When his father was revived he had the curse seal, so I'm not sure how it works. lol

I think thats only because he was an edo, but if he uses rinne tensei I don't think he'll get it back.
but I'm not sure.

 

[Melanee]

I think thats only because he was an edo, but if he uses rinne tensei I don't think he'll get it back.
but I'm not sure.

It's an interesting thought actually. Someone posted details on how it works in an older thread.

 

[iKaras]

Thought Kishi said in an interview he already has the end of Naruto set in stone, it's the events leading up to the end that he hasn't finished yet.

That gives me chills. Like Mass Effect 3 chills.

 

[Strata Uchiha]

He has always planned ahead..Just saiyan. You got that from the other thread btw..

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[Dribbles]

It's hard to say until we see the last chapter of the manga. It's all opinion and assumptions.



If everyone gets revived then I find the whole point of Naruto learning the true ways of a shinobi totally lost. He will always think everyone can be saved by a miracle. I think he's growing right now because he's realizing that words alone can't control destiny. If he wants to change it, he needs to take control with actions. I believe he will change things, but so far Kishimoto seems to keep making his beliefs fall apart around him. There has to be a reason for it. Usually when the hero spouts victory speeches, he wins.

I don't think you get what happened in the last couple of chapters.

Naruto belief first, was that he wouldn't let his friends die, no matter what. But in the end, Hinata convinced him that Neji, or any of his friends will never truly die. Their will- will live on in all of them forever. That's the message Kishi was trying to get across there ^_^

 

[lion fang master]

He has too that there was sasuke next journey in the manga after founding out he was wrong all along , now this journey has ended and he is about to find out his next quest

 

[Melanee]

I don't think you get what happened in the last couple of chapters.

Naruto belief first, was that he wouldn't let his friends die, no matter what. But in the end, Hinata convinced him that Neji, or any of his friends will never truly die. Their will- will live on in all of them forever. That's the message Kishi was trying to get across there ^_^

I'm referring to Naruto's reaction before Hinata and Kakashi helped him. I'm saying Naruto basically needed realize that keeping Neji's memory alive meant Neji would never really be dead. Obito attempted to make him feel like he did when Rin died, but Naruto chose the right path.

That's why I feel there was a reason behind it. In order for a hero to grow he needs to first fall before he truly understands what it means to be a true hero. Kishimoto has made most of Naruto's talk fail him throughout the story, but now that he's learned the hardest lesson ever, he will most likely succeed in changing everyone's destinies.

It's because of that, even though I would love to see everyone revived and a happy ending, I'm beginning to feel it would taint the meanings Kishimoto was trying to get across if everyone was suddenly alright.

 

[Dribbles]

I'm referring to Naruto's reaction before Hinata and Kakashi helped him. I'm saying Naruto basically needed realize that keeping Neji's memory alive meant Neji would never really be dead. Obito attempted to make him feel like he did when Rin died, but Naruto chose the right path.

That's why I feel there was a reason behind it. In order for a hero to grow he needs to first fall before he truly understands what it means to be a true hero. Kishimoto has made most of Naruto's talk fail him throughout the story, but now that he's learned the hardest lesson ever, he will most likely succeed in changing everyone's destinies.

It's because of that, even though I would love to see everyone revived and a happy ending, I'm beginning to feel it would taint the meanings Kishimoto was trying to get across if everyone was suddenly alright.

What's this spout about everyone getting revived? Kishi would defiantly know himself by now that if he pulled that stunt again fans would rage, they already did the first time. And for the reasons you stated as well, it goes against the whole point of this story. The lessons learned are going to be useless if everyone get's revived.

 

[Melanee]

What's this spout about everyone getting revived? Kishi would defiantly know himself by now that if he pulled that stunt again fans would rage, they already did the first time. And for the reasons you stated as well, it goes against the whole point of this story. The lessons learned are going to be useless if everyone get's revived.

People want it and many are thinking it's planned because this is playing out like the Pain scenario. I see the similarities, but after the last 4 chapters basically dedicated to Neji's sacrifice, I just can't see him being revived or the parents at HQ. At first I did, but now I find it too perfect the way it is for it to be ruined by everyone being alive again.

 

[CrimsonFire]

Hmm...maybe or it was just a coincidence one