Proof: Hiruzen staff can destroy a village.

[EliteKakashi]

Proof that Hiruzen's staff knocked kurama out the village? I'll wait.

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There's no "confirmation" that it was Enma, but he was the only one there who has shown the power to pull off such a feat, given he's shown the ability to effortlessly break through mokuton and the shinju roots. There was a Akimichi alongside Hiruzen, but if the Akimichi was the one responsible for doing it, he would have been visible due to the size he would have been when doing so, so it kinda narrows the possibilities down.

The anime also portrayed it as Enma being the one to do it. I know that's not exactly a confirmation either, but it's just something to add.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

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There's no "confirmation" that it was Enma, but he was the only one there who has shown the power to pull off such a feat, given he's shown the ability to effortlessly break through mokuton and the shinju roots. There was a Akimichi alongside Hiruzen, but if the Akimichi was the one responsible for doing it, he would have been visible due to the size he would have been when doing so, so it kinda narrows the possibilities down.

The anime also portrayed it as Enma being the one to do it. I know that's not exactly a confirmation either, but it's just something to add.

Nope there's a high chance it was choza/ multiple akimichi, given his feats against the gedo mazo with choji.

Either way Hiruzen said" we pushed it out the village" not "I pushed It out the village". So it wasn't a single effort. It was a group effort ruling out the possibility of Hiruzen, let alone his staff being responsible.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Nope there's a high chance it was choza/ multiple akimichi, given his feats against the gedo mazo with choji.

Either way Hiruzen said" we pushed it out the village" not "I pushed It out the village". So it wasn't a single effort. It was a group effort ruling out the possibility of Hiruzen, let alone his staff being responsible.

He was leading a team of people fighting the kyuubi, so yes, "they" pushed it out of the village. The Akimichi(well, potentially two, as the guy whose chest and up is cut off in the panel might be an Akimichi as well given his size) was still just his regular size.

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It's also questionable as to even if an Akimichi possesses the power to do so. Chouji in butterfly mode and Chouza in his super size mode could barely even budge the Gedo Mazo.

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Given the lack of the Akimichi on the scene showing any increase in size, and the only other thing there that has shown any feats even close to having that kind of power being Enma, it's a stretch to think anyone else did it. Might would believe a combo of the Akimichi + Enma, but again, the Akimichi showed no sign of increasing his(or their) limb size.

 

[Game Of Deities]

what an intresting story to behold

 

[BenjerminGaye]

He was leading a team of people fighting the kyuubi, so yes, "they" pushed it out of the village. The Akimichi(well, potentially two, as the guy whose chest and up is cut off in the panel might be an Akimichi as well given his size) was still just his regular size.

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It's also questionable as to even if an Akimichi possesses the power to do so. Chouji in butterfly mode and Chouza in his super size mode could barely even budge the Gedo Mazo.

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Given the lack of the Akimichi on the scene showing any increase in size, and the only other thing there that has shown any feats even close to having that kind of power being Enma, it's a stretch to think anyone else did it. Might would believe a combo of the Akimichi + Enma, but again, the Akimichi showed no sign of increasing his(or their) limb size.

The gedo mazo is leaps and bounds stronger than kurama.

 

[EliteKakashi]

The gedo mazo is leaps and bounds stronger than kurama.

Based off of what?

Kakashi was able to hold one of it's arms with just his Raiden, and Gai hurt it pretty badly with just kicking it's toe:

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After which, Gyuki and Naruto were able to knock him(It? lol) down by themselves:

Spoiler

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[BenjerminGaye]

Based off of what?

Kakashi was able to hold one of it's arms with just his Raiden, and Gai hurt it pretty badly with just kicking it's toe:

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After which, Gyuki and Naruto were able to knock him(It? lol) down by themselves:

Spoiler

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Naruto and b are perfect jins. Perfect jin>bijuu. So them hurting gedo mazo together isn't a reflection of what kurama can do alone.
Kakashi's jutsu did nothing and by the looks of it guy had to go gates just to damage the smallest digit of His body.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Naruto and b are perfect jins. Perfect jin>bijuu.
Kakashi's jutsu did nothing and by the looks of it guy had to go gates just to damage the smallest digit of His body.

Kakashi's jutsu kept Mazo's arm from attacking Gai. Thus why he shouted for Gai to attack.

The Mazo isn't nearly as powerful as you're making it out to be is my entire point. It's certainly not so much stronger than 100% Kurama(Keep in mind Naruto was attacking Gedo with 50%) that the two strongest Akimichi(or at least 2 of the strongest ever, Chouji in Butterfly Mode probably is the strongest in their clan's history) in their clan's history couldn't make it budge, but you're wanting to argue that 2 inferior Akimichi would knock Kurama back that far.

That "math" simply does not add up.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Kakashi's jutsu kept Mazo's arm from attacking Gai. Thus why he shouted for Gai to attack.

pretty bold assumption since in the very next scan you post kakashi and his clone are dangling from said hand.

The Mazo isn't nearly as powerful as you're making it out to be is my entire point. It's certainly not so much stronger than 100% Kurama(Keep in mind Naruto was attacking Gedo with 50%)

Naruto is a perfect jin and has better feats with 50% than kurama ever did with 100%. Keep in mind that Naruto didn't attack it alone seeing as naruto attacked it with bee, kakashi and guy.

that the two strongest Akimichi(or at least 2 of the strongest ever, Chouji in Butterfly Mode probably is the strongest in their clan's history) in their clan's history

another ridiculously bold assumption seeing as how butterfly mode is standard akamichi techniques. Heck the 3 pills he used in part 1 was made by his clan was specifically for that purpose.

couldn't make it budge,

which is a reflection of how strong it is.

but you're wanting to argue that 2 inferior Akimichi

Based on nothing

would knock Kurama back that far.

Because mindless kurama is weaker than the gedo mazo.

That "math" simply does not add up.

gamabunta Was able to hold kurama down yet two akamichi Users who can become practically as big as a ps can't push it?

I'm sorry your math sounds worse than mine.

 

[EliteKakashi]

pretty bold assumption since in the very next scan you post kakashi and his clone are dangling from said hand.

Which has what do with anything? It stopped it long enough for Gai to attack, that was the entire point.

Naruto is a perfect jin and has better feats with 50% than kurama ever did with 100%. Keep in mind that Naruto didn't attack it alone seeing as naruto attacked it with bee, kakashi and guy.

Naruto and Bee are the only two who actually knocked it down. And feats is irrelevant here. I'm talking literal physical strength, has nothing to do with someone controlling it or not.

another ridiculously bold assumption seeing as how butterfly mode is standard akamichi techniques. Heck the 3 pills he used in part 1 was made by his clan was specifically for that purpose.

Choji's self activated version of the technique is the perfected form of it. It was given it's own name in the databook for that reason. "Butterfly Choji Mode" is literally the name of the technique. No one else in the Akimichi has reached that level.

which is a reflection of how strong it is.
Based on nothing
Because mindless kurama is weaker than the gedo mazo.

I already proved it's physical strength isn't so great that it overpowers everything.

Based on the fact that Chouji reached a level no other Akimichi ever has..uh, yeah, based on plenty. I mean you can make an argument about Choza, but he's the head of the clan so he's not exactly a weakling, so best case scenario you're looking at here is Chouji > Choza = the 2 Akamichi that were helping Hiruzen.

"Mindless" has nothing to do with how physically strong/big Kurama is. Just simply impacts how he attacks.

gamabunta Was able to hold kurama down yet two akamichi Users who can become practically as big as a ps can't push it?

Gamabunta was summoned on top of Kurama(thus the force/impact of the drop was greater, gravity working in his favor), and even then he claimed he couldn't hold him.

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[BenjerminGaye]

Which has what do with anything? It stopped it long enough for Gai to attack, that was the entire point.

again you're assuming That it was for guy to attack. The scan clearly shows that kakashi is incapable of holding down the juubi's arm.

Naruto and Bee are the only two who actually knocked it down.

two perfect jinchuuriki's

And feats is irrelevant here.

makes sense you'd say that since you have no feats of Hiruzen pushing it out. It's pure speculation on your part.

I'm talking literal physical strength, has nothing to do with someone controlling it or not.

and in literal physical strength perfect jins rein superior to bijuu. Like always.

Choji's self activated version of the technique is the perfected form of it. It was given it's own name in the databook for that reason. "Butterfly Choji Mode" is literally the name of the technique. No one else in the Akimichi has reached that level.

Spoiler

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Not according to choza. He recognized the technique easily and state's the pills give the same effect. Manga overrules databook in this situation.

I already proved it's physical strength isn't so great that it overpowers everything.

Umm no. u didn't.

Based on the fact that Chouji reached a level no other Akimichi ever has..uh, yeah, based on plenty. I mean you can make an argument about Choza, but he's the head of the clan so he's not exactly a weakling, so best case scenario you're looking at here is Chouji > Choza = the 2 Akamichi that were helping Hiruzen.

I already disproved this.

"Mindless" has nothing to do with how physically strong/big Kurama is. Just simply impacts how he attacks.

yeah no. We've seen that that's not true. Perfect jins are superior in strength to bijuu.

Gamabunta was summoned on top of Kurama(thus the force/impact of the drop was greater, gravity working in his favor), and even then he claimed he couldn't hold him.

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yet he held him down long enough for minato to jump the kyuubi via ftg. Two akimichi with a running start would have enough momentum and bulk to push kurama out the village, where as Hiruzen's best feat with Enma is cutting small branches of the god tree with the help of oro, somthing random fodder nin were achiving by themselves.

 

[V h o]

Enma can just clone itself and rain devastation.

 

[startup97]

Enma can just clone itself and rain devastation.

Believe in the Hype!

 

[Conspirator.]

Yeah, this made no sense............... even for a troll.