proof dat sasuke can surpass Naruto ?? = can sasuke use Rasengan?

[Pukkake Pokayo]

Dat logic...dat frickin logic...

It's only an A rank jutsu. Amaterasu requires a special dojutsu. They're very different. Even Konohamaru learned rasengan btw. Naruto has universal comprehension of chakra. Ofc he can learn chidori. Rasengan is just shape manipulation. Chidori is just a bit of focused lightening. Christ..

 

[TrollKing]

Not necessarily for this kid.

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Look at how easily he mastered it without a dojutsu.

You don't need dojutsu to learn. Dojutsu overcome the tunnel vision created by extreme high speed

Since burrito is "genius", so he can learn it. And he doesn't need sharingan unless he is super fast like kid kakashi

 

[Umari Senju]

I didn't insult you....not even remotely. Actually I didn't even address the op too much Zzz


Who exactly is a juggernaut? Hashirama alone? Lel tobirama didn't seem tanky. All what was said was basic sharingan, not even MS. Not even sage mode is locked down for the senju

Hashirama actually had SM and a KKG unseen in anyone else without his DNA. All other senju ain't representing this "body" power too well.

Not at all, kishi just isn't giving anything to them. There isn't even a specialty solely for them, like the uchiha with the sharingan. What their specialty can be trained for? Lol

The senju are Juggernaughts. Tsunade? Did you watch her fight Madara? She took more direct hits than anybody and kept going. And Madara is the elite of Uchiha. Hashirama is self explanitory. And we didn't get an extensive history in all things Senju so I am sure there were others throughout history that were noteworthy as well.

Kishi (the creator and author) dubbed the Senju were stronger than the Uchiha and thus they are. Just because the Uchiha have all those flashy Dojutsu doesn't mean they all worked on the Senju.

You are also forgetting the fact that most Uchiha never awakened MS. And only a handful awakened the Sharingan itself. So what's so strange about the Senju surpassing them.

The Uchiha of note obviously brought it to the Senju which is why their feud has been going on for so long. And lastly....You're trying to find realism in a manga where people use magic (chakra) to spit water and fire from their mouths, create clones of themselves from thin air and walk on bodies of water like jesus.

 

[minamoto]

The senju are Juggernaughts. Tsunade? Did you watch her fight Madara? She took more direct hits than anybody and kept going. And Madara is the elite of Uchiha. Hashirama is self explanitory. And we didn't get an extensive history in all things Senju so I am sure there were others throughout history that were noteworthy as well.

Kishi (the creator and author) dubbed the Senju were stronger than the Uchiha and thus they are. Just because the Uchiha have all those flashy Dojutsu doesn't mean they all worked on the Senju.

You are also forgetting the fact that most Uchiha never awakened MS. And only a handful awakened the Sharingan itself. So what's so strange about the Senju surpassing them.

The Uchiha of note obviously brought it to the Senju which is why their feud has been going on for so long. And lastly....You're trying to find realism in a manga where people use magic (chakra) to spit water and fire from their mouths, create clones of themselves from thin air and walk on bodies of water like jesus.

even Fiction should be based on logic..

 

[Liquid Snake]

i like your logic..

Thanks

 

[Umari Senju]

You need to have the required nature type to learn a just like chidori. That's why naruto couldn't learn it and Sasuke could.

Are you sure about that? Kakashi created Chidori. He taught it to Sasuke because he too was lighting type that's a given. But was it stated somewhere that you had to have a specific nature type learn a jutsu? If that was the case than how would the Kage have all these other nature type jutsu?

I don't recall seeing anywhere that you need to be a lightning type to learn chidori. I do know that it was concidered an incomplete jutsu due to the tunnel vision you get from moving at such speeds which leaves you open to counterattacks. Which is why the Sharingan was needed to use it effectively. Not because you needed to be a lightning type.

I could be wrong in this. If you have a scan or info to disprove this please show it to me. I would like to get this right if I am mistaken.

even Fiction should be based on logic..

True but some in this thread are looking for too much logic where it isn't required. that's all I'm saying.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

Are you sure about that? Kakashi created Chidori. He taught it to Sasuke because he too was lighting type that's a given. But was it stated somewhere that you had to have a specific nature type learn a jutsu? If that was the case than how would the Kage have all these other nature type jutsu?

I don't recall seeing anywhere that you need to be a lightning type to learn chidori. I do know that it was concidered an incomplete jutsu due to the tunnel vision you get from moving at such speeds which leaves you open to counterattacks. Which is why the Sharingan was needed to use it effectively. Not because you needed to be a lightning type.

I could be wrong in this. If you have a scan or info to disprove this please show it to me. I would like to get this right if I am mistaken.



True but some in this thread are looking for too much logic where it isn't required. that's all I'm saying.

Even though i don't believe that's correct, that's a fair contradiction to bring up and I'm gonna straight up say now that I'm too lazy to look for scans haha. But let's look at it this way: If Sasuke wasn't a nature type would Kakashi have taught him chidori? I don't believe so bc i believe it's impossible. With the kages, they are all extraordinary shinobi and part of that reason is that they have multiple chakra natures. It is the case with a lot of jonin as well. I don't believe any of them knew a jutsu that wasn't of their chakra nature(only one I can think of is hiruzen but I'm not site what chakra nature he is other than fire) Once again tho I apologize that my laziness prevents me from looking up scans lol.

 

[V h o]

The senju are Juggernaughts. Tsunade? Did you watch her fight Madara? She took more direct hits than anybody and kept going. And Madara is the elite of Uchiha. Hashirama is self explanitory. And we didn't get an extensive history in all things Senju so I am sure there were others throughout history that were noteworthy as well.

Lol tsunade has a healing, actually regeneration techniques. Madara being elite is fine, hashirama was the elite too. However senju don't have anything special, besides being "juggernauts" yet the uchiha still could fight these juggernauts for decades. This Juggernaut stamina doesn't seem as good as all what sharingan gives. Makes matters worse since some (if not a lot) didn't even have sharingan, so they at base still could fight these juggernauts

Kishi (the creator and author) dubbed the Senju were stronger than the Uchiha and thus they are.

Lol no one is denying that. If anything I'm highlighting, if not complaining how senju can beat someone who literally can copy their skills.

Just because the Uchiha have all those flashy Dojutsu doesn't mean they all worked on the Senju.

They can copy the senju jutsu as well with these "flashy dojutsu" skills lel. Just ignore that uchiha also have strong chakra.

You are also forgetting the fact that most Uchiha never awakened MS.

Lel I barely even addressed MS, most of what I'm saying is solely 3 tomoe (not even sure 1 tomoe can).

And only a handful awakened the Sharingan itself. So what's so strange about the Senju surpassing them.

Strange because the uchiha can copy their jutsu with sharingan, and senju don't have any known KKG locking down their skills.

The Uchiha of note obviously brought it to the Senju which is why their feud has been going on for so long. And lastly....You're trying to find realism in a manga where people use magic (chakra) to spit water and fire from their mouths, create clones of themselves from thin air and walk on bodies of water like jesus.

Lmao where do you see realism? It's inconsistent how sharingan gives these wonderfully broken abilities yet for some unknown reason it isn't used because why not:bdpf:

 

[Dark Sonic]

Smoking on that Hashi Kush?

 

[Umari Senju]

Lol tsunade has a healing, actually regeneration techniques. Madara being elite is fine, hashirama was the elite too. However senju don't have anything special, besides being "juggernauts" yet the uchiha still could fight these juggernauts for decades. This Juggernaut stamina doesn't seem as good as all what sharingan gives. Makes matters worse since some (if not a lot) didn't even have sharingan, so they at base still could fight these juggernauts

Lol no one is denying that. If anything I'm highlighting, if not complaining how senju can beat someone who literally can copy their skills.

They can copy the senju jutsu as well with these "flashy dojutsu" skills lel. Just ignore that uchiha also have strong chakra.

Lel I barely even addressed MS, most of what I'm saying is solely 3 tomoe (not even sure 1 tomoe can).

Strange because the uchiha can copy their jutsu with sharingan, and senju don't have any known KKG locking down their skills.

Lmao where do you see realism? It's inconsistent how sharingan gives these wonderfully broken abilities yet for some unknown reason it isn't used because why not:bdpf:

You sound kind of butthurt over this (no offense)

I'm not saying every senju is a prodigy to behold just like not every Uchiha is either. Even if it's fodder Senju fighting fodder Uchiha, apparently those fodder uchiha didn't have what it took to take down the fodder senju. You make it sound like the Uchiha were utterly and completely stompped by the senju. This is not the case. They were tired of the feud and , more importantly, tired of fighting Hashirama.

They opted for the peace Hashirama offedered. People misinterperate this as defeat and that isn't the case. If anything they both fought to a stalemate fighting any longer than they did would have just spelled the end of both clans.

What makes the Uchiha dangerous are the ablities you described earlier. But just because they copied a jutsu doesn't mean they are going to be better at it than the one they copied it from (and why would they? Sure they copied it but never trained in how to use it effectively)

The Uchiha have powerful jutsu yes
The Senju are remarkably durable

That means they can take more punishment than your standard uchiha. This is what made them such a threat to the Uchiha. Try to think of it in terms of endurance. Both can constantly keep tossing jutsu at each other one after the other, but unless the Uchiha can overpower the Senju he/she is fighting, the senju will outlast the Uchiha.

This is just your standard Uchiha/Senju clan member. When you get those who use MS of course Senju start dying out and a more skilled Senju is required to fight.

You mention Izanagi but they could only use that once or twice, after that they loose their sight for good. If they don't kill their opponent after using it, then they are as good as dead.

This really doesn't seem like such an inconstant problem to me. But then I am not looking at it the same way you are I suppose.

Even though i don't believe that's correct, that's a fair contradiction to bring up and I'm gonna straight up say now that I'm too lazy to look for scans haha. But let's look at it this way: If Sasuke wasn't a nature type would Kakashi have taught him chidori? I don't believe so bc i believe it's impossible. With the kages, they are all extraordinary shinobi and part of that reason is that they have multiple chakra natures. It is the case with a lot of jonin as well. I don't believe any of them knew a jutsu that wasn't of their chakra nature(only one I can think of is hiruzen but I'm not site what chakra nature he is other than fire) Once again tho I apologize that my laziness prevents me from looking up scans lol.

No worries. You don't have to go through all that work. Your explanation is sound imo so if I am indeed mistaken I have no issues admitting my fallacy. Your logic seems legit here.

 

[guts2nevergiveup]

You sound kind of butthurt over this (no offense)

I'm not saying every senju is a prodigy to behold just like not every Uchiha is either. Even if it's fodder Senju fighting fodder Uchiha, apparently those fodder uchiha didn't have what it took to take down the fodder senju. You make it sound like the Uchiha were utterly and completely stompped by the senju. This is not the case. They were tired of the feud and , more importantly, tired of fighting Hashirama.

They opted for the peace Hashirama offedered. People misinterperate this as defeat and that isn't the case. If anything they both fought to a stalemate fighting any longer than they did would have just spelled the end of both clans.

What makes the Uchiha dangerous are the ablities you described earlier. But just because they copied a jutsu doesn't mean they are going to be better at it than the one they copied it from (and why would they? Sure they copied it but never trained in how to use it effectively)

The Uchiha have powerful jutsu yes
The Senju are remarkably durable

That means they can take more punishment than your standard uchiha. This is what made them such a threat to the Uchiha. Try to think of it in terms of endurance. Both can constantly keep tossing jutsu at each other one after the other, but unless the Uchiha can overpower the Senju he/she is fighting, the senju will outlast the Uchiha.

This is just your standard Uchiha/Senju clan member. When you get those who use MS of course Senju start dying out and a more skilled Senju is required to fight.

You mention Izanagi but they could only use that once or twice, after that they loose their sight for good. If they don't kill their opponent after using it, then they are as good as dead.

This really doesn't seem like such an inconstant problem to me. But then I am not looking at it the same way you are I suppose.




No worries. You don't have to go through all that work. Your explanation is sound imo so if I am indeed mistaken I have no issues admitting my fallacy. Your logic seems legit here.

Lol thanks. Btw I liked your explanation for what you said above too. About the uchiha and senju

 

[V h o]

You sound kind of butthurt over this (no offense)

I'm not but we can stop if this is where the discussion is going XD

I'm not saying every senju is a prodigy to behold just like not every Uchiha is either. Even if it's fodder Senju fighting fodder Uchiha, apparently those fodder uchiha didn't have what it took to take down the fodder senju. You make it sound like the Uchiha were utterly and completely stompped by the senju. This is not the case. They were tired of the feud and , more importantly, tired of fighting Hashirama.

None of this is what I was saying. Uchiha have sharingan to copy jutsu, senju don't have anything unique besides "body" yet one of the main if not only body power (sage mode) is not even solely for senju.

They opted for the peace Hashirama offedered. People misinterperate this as defeat and that isn't the case. If anything they both fought to a stalemate fighting any longer than they did would have just spelled the end of both clans.

Believe those uchiha were at base then too XD

What makes the Uchiha dangerous are the ablities you described earlier. But just because they copied a jutsu doesn't mean they are going to be better at it than the one they copied it from (and why would they? Sure they copied it but never trained in how to use it effectively)

Uchiha have strong chakra as well and kakashi (w/o said strong chakra) copied zabuza just fine.
If they have this skill, why not use it? Heck kakashi made his name off of copying.

The Uchiha have powerful jutsu yes
The Senju are remarkably durable

That means they can take more punishment than your standard uchiha. This is what made them such a threat to the Uchiha. Try to think of it in terms of endurance. Both can constantly keep tossing jutsu at each other one after the other, but unless the Uchiha can overpower the Senju he/she is fighting, the senju will outlast the Uchiha.

Yea they do have endurance, going solely from hashirama. Yet in still uchiha with no famed endurance are still there in similar conditions lel.

This is just your standard Uchiha/Senju clan member. When you get those who use MS of course Senju start dying out and a more skilled Senju is required to fight.

Senju truly have nothing to put them on MS level, at least something that's solely theirs.

You mention Izanagi but they could only use that once or twice, after that they loose their sight for good. If they don't kill their opponent after using it, then they are as good as dead.

1 izanagi was enough for danzo against shisui XD

This really doesn't seem like such an inconstant problem to me. But then I am not looking at it the same way you are I suppose.

not a problem to me tbh. Just that only 1 uchiha was shown copying, and none were famous for it.... at least that I know of.

 

[Umari Senju]

I'm not but we can stop if this is where the discussion is going XD

None of this is what I was saying. Uchiha have sharingan to copy jutsu, senju don't have anything unique besides "body" yet one of the main if not only body power (sage mode) is not even solely for senju.


Believe those uchiha were at base then too XD

Uchiha have strong chakra as well and kakashi (w/o said strong chakra) copied zabuza just fine.
If they have this skill, why not use it? Heck kakashi made his name off of copying.

Yea they do have endurance, going solely from hashirama. Yet in still uchiha with no famed endurance are still there in similar conditions lel.

Senju truly have nothing to put them on MS level, at least something that's solely theirs.

1 izanagi was enough for danzo against shisui XD

not a problem to me tbh. Just that only 1 uchiha was shown copying, and none were famous for it.... at least that I know of.

So what I am basically understanding from your responses is that because the Senju don't have any signature jutsu to call their own then they should not be able to take on the Uchiha. Their endurance and large chakra pools is what makes their clan unique.

I don't recall Danzo even using a sharingan when he took down Shisui. I thought he just wrecked him before he even got a chance to make his move. Did I miss something?

Endruance + lots of chakra reserves= Senju clan's specialty.

Sharingan + Potent Chakra= Uchiha clan specialty.

Why do the Senju need a special jutsu or style in order to make them significant?

 

[TrollingSage]

Which is why it makes no sense why the uchiha were even equal, even more confusing on their loss, to the senju. How the hell can an eye that can copy jutsu, predict movements, deny death, and even alter reality even lose to peeps with literally no speciality.....how garbage can you be Zzz

Someone with a thousand B rank jutsus won't be have any advantage over someone that only knows a single S rank jutsus.

 

[V h o]

So what I am basically understanding from your responses is that because the Senju don't have any signature jutsu to call their own then they should not be able to take on the Uchiha.

They obviously did, however it seems the ones with sharingan were scare then.

Their endurance and large chakra pools is what makes their clan unique.

Yea

I don't recall Danzo even using a sharingan when he took down Shisui. I thought he just wrecked him before he even got a chance to make his move. Did I miss something?

Believe shisui genjutsud danzo and then danzo broke free (believe with izanagi) and then attacked shisui

Endruance + lots of chakra reserves= Senju clan's specialty.

Sharingan + Potent Chakra= Uchiha clan specialty.

Seems like it. Body just gets endurance.

Why do the Senju need a special jutsu or style in order to make them significant?

They obviously don't to make them significant, however they still have nothing which the sharingan can't copy, excluding rare KKG such as wood release. For example all of tobirama skills should be able to be copied.

Edit

Someone with a thousand B rank jutsus won't be have any advantage over someone that only knows a single S rank jutsus.

That could probably be copied to, at least to an extent.

 

[TrollingSage]

They obviously did, however it seems the ones with sharingan were scare then.

Yea

Believe shisui genjutsud danzo and then danzo broke free (believe with izanagi) and then attacked shisui


Seems like it. Body just gets endurance.

They obviously don't to make them significant, however they still have nothing which the sharingan can't copy, excluding rare KKG such as wood release. For example all of tobirama skills should be able to be copied.

Edit

That could probably be copied to, at least to an extent.

In a fight between say Itachi and Kisame, if Itachi copies Kisame's jutsus, what good would that do? He still won't be able to use them on the same scale as Kisame because he lacks the chakra to do so. That was my point. Even if Uchihas can copy jutsus, it would still amount to nothing if they don't have the stamina to use those jutsus on the same level as the senjus

 

[minamoto]

Thanks

you are welcome!