Pro life or Pro choice

[North Kai]

noone can tell a woman weather she should go through with it, its her choice and noone else should have a say except those closest to her

and if someone thinks abortion is wrong than dont do it and leave all those who are prochoice to make their own choice

I did not say that I believed all abortions are by teenagers. What I said was that teenagers shouldnt be able to get away with it.

...and why would a woman die from having a child? Not only would that be an extremely rare case...but I'd also guess that it would be caused by something else she did. Again, lack of self control...which is my point.

If it's not because of something she did previously, and she was going to lose her life over it, then maybe in this extremely rare case, abortion should be considered. In my opinion, if the child will survive it, then the woman, as an older person, has no right to take the life of their child to save their own. No real mother would ever do that.

why shouldnt teenagers be able to get away with it? should they go through something that will change their life forever?

complications during pregnancy arent all that uncommon. Lack of self control? So a woman does not have the right to have *** if she doesnt want a child? Guess what she can do whatever she wants. also you imply that if woman dies due to a pregnancy it might be her fault for lack of self control which is disturbing at least.

abortion is or should be the right of every woman, not everyone shares your religious believes, a majority of the population doesnt and making the religious BELIEFS of a minority into laws is simply wrong, laws should be based on what is the best compromise for everyone: in this case if abortion is allowed a religious person can still choose not to have an abortion and one who supports abortion has the option to do what she wants

 

[Avani]

In my opinion, if the child will survive it, then the woman, as an older person, has no right to take the life of their child to save their own. No real mother would ever do that.

Yeah unduly jeopardise a woman's life by guilt tripping her to her death because some vague emotional idea of yours about "who is a real mother. Seeing that the unborn fetus is still unborn she is not even a mother at this stage.

The World Health Organization estimates that approximately 1,000 women globally die every day due to complications from pregnancy or delivery. The number of maternal deaths worldwide was estimated to be 529,000 in 2000.

However, it is well recognized that maternal mortality numbers are often significantly under reported. In fact, according to the United Nations, it is estimated that the numbers of maternal deaths globally could fall within a range of 277,000 to 817,000 per year.

A woman has every right to save herself to avoid risks to her ownself without being target of opiniated and judgemental people who are never going to be in her shoes.

 

[Wesobi]

I agree with you, it was their choice to have ***. *** is also fun though, but should be controlled and stay inside a firm relationship and not be willy nilly. Also, one does not need to ejaculate inside...the men should control themselves too if they're going to do something stupid anyway. Trust me, it's entirely possible to choose the moment in which it happens. However, that takes practice, which I'm guessing people don't do anymore. U_U

It's funny how you're generally sending out the impression that young people shouldn't have *** because they can't control themselves and aren't able to deal with the consequences it MIGHT have, yet on the other hand sarcastically point out that people don't practice "ejaculating" outside of the woman. That's kind of contradicting yourself, isn't it?



Apart from that, there are several reasons why a woman abortion is legally allowed within a certain amount of time.

If you say that killing a embryo is killing a human being, you might as well say that jacking off and cleaning up with a paper tissue is mass murder.

 

[Sasunarufan13]

I'm pro choice. If a girl/woman doesn't want the baby or there could be complications or she's not ready for it, she shouldn't be forced to keep it.
Of course there's the argument of still carrying it and then giving it up for adoption, but a lot of children get put up for adoption but not all children get adopted.
It's really simple: it's her body, she should decide whether to keep the child or not. Also saying a woman shouldn't be having *** if she doesn't want a baby is extremely ignorant. So what, a guy can enjoy himself, but a woman can't unless she wants a baby?
*shakes head* Also, contraceptives don't always work right. There are cases of women taking the pill and still getting pregnant. The pill is only 99% safe and the condom is around that percentage too.
Also, pulling back before ejaculating doesn't always prevent pregnancy either. That's one of the oldest tricks to avoid it, but it's one of the most dangerous to use. That's something that's stated in every magazine with questions about *** and it's something taught in school too when they teach *** ed.

 

[Shinobi Train]

why shouldnt teenagers be able to get away with it? should they go through something that will change their life forever?

complications during pregnancy arent all that uncommon. Lack of self control? So a woman does not have the right to have *** if she doesnt want a child? Guess what she can do whatever she wants. also you imply that if woman dies due to a pregnancy it might be her fault for lack of self control which is disturbing at least.

abortion is or should be the right of every woman, not everyone shares your religious believes, a majority of the population doesnt and making the religious BELIEFS of a minority into laws is simply wrong, laws should be based on what is the best compromise for everyone: in this case if abortion is allowed a religious person can still choose not to have an abortion and one who supports abortion has the option to do what she wants

Yes, an out of control teen needs to pay for the choices they make. It's like murder: if people knew that they'd be executed immediately for commiting a crime worthy of the death penalty, then murder and such would seriously be reduced. If teens found out after a while that they'd really, truly have to live with their mistakes, they might start taking life a bit more seriously.

I did not say that women shouldn't have *** unless they want a child. What I said was that they should first be a steady relationship where both partners agree that if a child comes out of this whole thing, they'd be ready to raise it. This requires both men and women to be stable people. The problem today is that people aren't stable and they can get away with things any time they want...which causes them to be immature.

I never mentioned religion. Let's leave religion out of it for obvious reasons.

Yeah unduly jeopardise a woman's life by guilt tripping her to her death because some vague emotional idea of yours about "who is a real mother. Seeing that the unborn fetus is still unborn she is not even a mother at this stage.

No one should have to put a guilt trip on her. The mother should already know what the right thing to do is. Also, I said that abortion should be on the table at this point, but that I think it would be really strange for someone who's older to kill someone else to save themselves. The debate circles around when life begins...so yes, she is a mother at that point.

It's funny how you're generally sending out the impression that young people shouldn't have *** because they can't control themselves and aren't able to deal with the consequences it MIGHT have, yet on the other hand sarcastically point out that people don't practice "ejaculating" outside of the woman. That's kind of contradicting yourself, isn't it?



Apart from that, there are several reasons why a woman abortion is legally allowed within a certain amount of time.

If you say that killing a embryo is killing a human being, you might as well say that jacking off and cleaning up with a paper tissue is mass murder.

Nope, not saying they should stay away from ***, I'm saying they should take in the consequences of their actions and make sure they're ready to deal with them. Once both parties have agreed to that, "practice" may begin. xd Also, it's not like *** is the only fun thing to do. Geez, do people not play video games anymore? It's not like a person has to have ***, ya' know. Some people actually choose to remain virgin.

It's different though, one of the two is trying to grow. An acorn laying on the pavement isn't growing, and it might just become food actually. An acorn in the ground will actually grow, and once it does, it's no longer an acorn anymore, it's a tree.


Wow, this is why I don't like debates...people can't see the other side even for a second. xd

 

[Avani]

No one should have to put a guilt trip on her. The mother should already know what the right thing to do is. Also, I said that abortion should be on the table at this point, but that I think it would be really strange for someone who's older to kill someone else to save themselves. The debate circles around when life begins...so yes, she is a mother at that point.

Yeah you are trying to do just that- attempting to push your ideas about what motherhood is. A mother is not just some vague idea. She is a person and being a mother involves much much more than just giving birth.

You forget that you cannot decide what is the right thing to do for another person. There can be hundreds of scenario and reasons for a person to make such decisions. A woman's well being is as important as an unborn who is yet to come into full existance. Not to forget that some of the fetus may need abortion because of their own medical condition.

A healthy and happy mother is a good mother. An unhappy, and sick or dead mother or one being used as a breeding machine is not.

Any woman shouldn't be obligated to risk death for the simple purpose of breeding or becsuse others want her to for whatever personal beliefs of their own ( while disregarding her circumstances and opinion). You can neither generalise what is the "right thing to do" nor should try to judge anyone based on your personal oh-so-narrow perception of it.

It's different though, one of the two is trying to grow. An acorn laying on the pavement isn't growing, and it might just become food actually. An acorn in the ground will actually grow, and once it does, it's no longer an acorn anymore, it's a tree.


Wow, this is why I don't like debates...people can't see the other side even for a second. xd

The one trying to grow acts as a parasite( harsh but true) in the meanwhile stealing nourishment from the mother's body. Unless the would be mother is being given proper nourishment and health care it is not going to be good for either one. A woman should have a right to decide whether she wants to be fed on or not or if she wants to live or not and a right to not be condemned for her choice.

Your last sentence is ironic since you are the one here who is unable to see the other side even for a second and assume that the topic is simple one with a black and white answer, while it is a big grey area.

There are as many cases where an abortion can be simply stupid as where it should have been done but for some moronic emotional reason it was avoided.

It is not your body which is being affected permanantly, and may have to suffer many of the side effects and problems beause of complications during pregnancy and delivery, physically, psychologically and most probably financially as well, so it is not your choice either.

 

[ZK]

Yes, an out of control teen needs to pay for the choices they make. It's like murder: if people knew that they'd be executed immediately for commiting a crime worthy of the death penalty, then murder and such would seriously be reduced. If teens found out after a while that they'd really, truly have to live with their mistakes, they might start taking life a bit more seriously.

I did not say that women shouldn't have *** unless they want a child. What I said was that they should first be a steady relationship where both partners agree that if a child comes out of this whole thing, they'd be ready to raise it. This requires both men and women to be stable people. The problem today is that people aren't stable and they can get away with things any time they want...which causes them to be immature.

I never mentioned religion. Let's leave religion out of it for obvious reasons.



No one should have to put a guilt trip on her. The mother should already know what the right thing to do is. Also, I said that abortion should be on the table at this point, but that I think it would be really strange for someone who's older to kill someone else to save themselves. The debate circles around when life begins...so yes, she is a mother at that point.



Nope, not saying they should stay away from ***, I'm saying they should take in the consequences of their actions and make sure they're ready to deal with them. Once both parties have agreed to that, "practice" may begin. xd Also, it's not like *** is the only fun thing to do. Geez, do people not play video games anymore? It's not like a person has to have ***, ya' know. Some people actually choose to remain virgin.

It's different though, one of the two is trying to grow. An acorn laying on the pavement isn't growing, and it might just become food actually. An acorn in the ground will actually grow, and once it does, it's no longer an acorn anymore, it's a tree.


Wow, this is why I don't like debates...people can't see the other side even for a second. xd

Right, because you've been very understanding so far.

First of all, let's just clear up how abortion affects the average, ex-pregnant female teenager.
Abortion might be a relatively simple process physically, but, contrary to what you seem to believe, many are tolled terribly on a psychological level. You don't see people having casual abortions, you see women crying and pondering for days because they have a potential person inside them, but keeping and nurturing that person presents a very real threat to their future and the future of those around them.

Yes, an out of control teen needs to pay for the choices they make. It's like murder: if people knew that they'd be executed immediately for commiting a crime worthy of the death penalty, then murder and such would seriously be reduced. If teens found out after a while that they'd really, truly have to live with their mistakes, they might start taking life a bit more seriously.

Ah, here we go, the old 'murder' argument.
What you fail to see is that you're not only ruining the teen's life, you're ruining the baby's life. Teen parents are more prone to neglect and/or abuse their child. Furthermore; the children of teenage parents are more prone to not get an education and to get pregnant in ther teens.
Your argument is based on the principle that all life is sacred, no matter its form, and on the notion that responsibility should be forced on people who've acted rashly.
You merely fail to see that you're punishing the baby, too.

@ Bolded: following that logic, young children who steal a pokemon-card should be sent to prison for thievery.
Our system is designed to teach the next generation how to behave without damaging it. Your logic does not include second chances or slaps on the wrist, it follows the principle that a broken condom or a rape should be punished with forced responsibility, no matter the damage it does to the mother and her child.
It is a despicable notion.
Furthermore; your logic only serves to punish the female, not the male.

No one should have to put a guilt trip on her. The mother should already know what the right thing to do is. Also, I said that abortion should be on the table at this point, but that I think it would be really strange for someone who's older to kill someone else to save themselves. The debate circles around when life begins...so yes, she is a mother at that point.

Let me just get real cynical here.
We kill beings of lesser intelligence all the time.
As a fetus, 'humans' have almost no cognitive functions, nor are they able to control their own bodies. Why wouldn't we terminate a potential life to save an ongoing life?
Why do you insist on ruining the baby, the father and the mother merely to teach the parents a lesson?

 

[Jack Spicer]

Pro-choice for me.

 

[Shinobi Train]

Yeah you are trying to do just that- attempting to push your ideas about what motherhood is. A mother is not just some vague idea. She is a person and being a mother involves much much more than just giving birth.

You forget that you cannot decide what is the right thing to do for another person. There can be hundreds of scenario and reasons for a person to make such decisions. A woman's well being is as important as an unborn who is yet to come into full existance. Not to forget that some of the fetus may need abortion because of their own medical condition.

A healthy and happy mother is a good mother. An unhappy, and sick or dead mother or one being used as a breeding machine is not.

Any woman shouldn't be obligated to risk death for the simple purpose of breeding or becsuse others want her to. You can neither generalise what is the "right thing to do" nor should try to judge anyone based on your personal oh-so-narrow perception of it.



The one trying to grow acts as a parasite( harsh but true) in the meanwhile stealing nourishment from the mother's body. Unless the would be mother is being given proper nourishment and health care it is not going to be good for either one.

Your last sentence is ironic since you are the one here who is unable to see the other side even for a second and assume that the topic is simple one with a black and white answer, while it is a big grey area.

There are as many cases where an abortion can be simply stupid as where it should have been done but for some moronic emotional reason it was avoided.

It is not your body which is being affected permanantly, and may have to suffer many of the side effects and problems beause of complications during pregnancy and delivery, physically, psychologically and most probably financially as well, so it is not your choice either.

Part of the problem is that women think just because their the ones that carry the child then it should be up to them alone. When in fact, the cause of it rests squarly on the shoulders of the man. My point still stands unchallenged: if one does not wish to get pregnant, then they should simply stay away from *** - it's not the end of the would just because you can't have ***. U_U

If someone does have a condition where they can't bear children and never will be able to, then just tie the tubes and stop it before it can happen. I think you should seriously take a look at some of the horrors of abortion. I've looked at both sides clearly with an open mind, and I've made my stance.

The woman is only going to carry the child for nine months. After that, there's years to come where both parents will be taking care of and providing for the child. So yes, it's the choice of both parents...that's what partnership is.

 

[Jack Spicer]

Part of the problem is that women think just because their the ones that carry the child then it should be up to them alone. When in fact, the cause of it rests squarly on the shoulders of the man.

It's not the 1600 hundreds anymore.

It's a woman's body. A couple should discuss this 50/50, but to say it rests squarly on the man is a joke. In the end, it's the woman's body whether she wants to give birth or not.

 

[Sasunarufan13]

Part of the problem is that women think just because their the ones that carry the child then it should be up to them alone. When in fact, the cause of it rests squarly on the shoulders of the man. My point still stands unchallenged: if one does not wish to get pregnant, then they should simply stay away from *** - it's not the end of the would just because you can't have ***. U_U

If someone does have a condition where they can't bear children and never will be able to, then just tie the tubes and stop it before it can happen. I think you should seriously take a look at some of the horrors of abortion. I've looked at both sides clearly with an open mind, and I've made my stance.

The woman is only going to carry the child for nine months. After that, there's years to come where both parents will be taking care of and providing for the child. So yes, it's the choice of both parents...that's what partnership is.

But it's still the woman who has to carry the baby. Men should be allowed to have a say in it, yes, but they shouldn't be allowed to force a woman to carry a baby. It's still the woman's body, and she'll be the one in pain when the birth arrives and she'll be risking complications during the pregnancy and birth.
Also a man can easily walk away from raising the child. A mother not so easy. Raising a child is not easy - why should people be forced to raise a child that's a) not wanted and b) they are not mature enough to handle the responsibility of raising the child? The child will be the one who suffers the poor upraising - you're willing to risk a screwed up child because you think every woman should be forced to carry a child regardless of the circumstances?
Take for example: rape. That's not a woman's choice, yet in your view she should be forced to carry the baby of her rapist, which would constantly remind her of what happened. She could even grown to hate the baby because of its parentage.
I'm sorry but you're being ridiculous when you say that if women don't want to get pregnant, they shouldn't be having ***. Again, why should men have all the fun and women not? There are all kinds of contraceptives to make sure that women can enjoy *** (newsflash: women like to have *** too without worrying about a baby). Sure, they can fail, but at least that allows them to do what they want.
Also your remark about not being able to bear children and therefore tie the tubes; why should the tubes be tied if they can't have children? They are physically unable to have children then, so there's no need to tie the tubes :sy:
And "only carrying the baby for nine months"? Those nine months can be a real rollercoaster for the woman. They get pumped up with hormones and they not only change physically, but also mentally. It's not that easy to carry a baby. Unless you have experienced it yourself? U_U
I'm sorry but again, women should be allowed to have the choice. Yes, abortion is not something to be taken lightly and yes, it causes heavy turmoil in most cases. But still, women should not be forced to carry a baby if they don't want to. That will only be bad for the baby.

 

[Avani]

Part of the problem is that women think just because their the ones that carry the child then it should be up to them alone. When in fact, the cause of it rests squarly on the shoulders of the man. My point still stands unchallenged: if one does not wish to get pregnant, then they should simply stay away from *** - it's not the end of the would just because you can't have ***. U_U

If someone does have a condition where they can't bear children and never will be able to, then just tie the tubes and stop it before it can happen. I think you should seriously take a look at some of the horrors of abortion. I've looked at both sides clearly with an open mind, and I've made my stance.

The woman is only going to carry the child for nine months. After that, there's years to come where both parents will be taking care of and providing for the child. So yes, it's the choice of both parents...that's what partnership is.

This reply is given with such a myopic view that it should be totaly ignored but for the sake of politeness.

You are assuming that there is a worthswhile partnership( if any), you are taking it as a given that some "man" is there taking care of it and nothing else matters and he will be there shouldering the responsibility no matter what.

What if the woman's own life or well being is in danger- that's not important at all in your view. Nine months which alter her whole life physically, psychologically and finanically but that concept is apparantly beyond your understanding.

You seem to be blissfully unaware of how it is to take care of a child with serious spasticity or any other genetic disease.

In short you have been living a sheltered life where everything is rosy and according to you people should stick and would stick to their supposed gender roles and problem solved.

Horror of abortion? You should see sometime the horror of being a parent of two spastic children sometimes.- I have.

The kids growing in age but barely aware of their surroundings. Deformed bodies of 9 years and 8 years olds with brains of 8 month old. Parents living in horror 24 seven and worried how kids will cope as more time passes because the situations deteriorates with time. Try taking care of such a girl child when she reaches puberty and then come back to me telling of horrors parents faced.

I can go on and on with such cases but I think I made my point.

Should'nt have *** my foot. As if it is only about that and it is that simple.

 

[Shadow Weaver]

Pro Choice of course. Some people are just not fit to be parents. In fact, I think there should be a mandatory parenthood test and only once you pass it and receive your license, you get to have and raise children. These days, we have and all kinds of evaluations for anything and everything, but not for such an important thing as raising a child.

 

[Shinobi Train]

Okay, I can't and don't have time to debate so many people without someone backing me up at all. I made my points, and if you don't like it, then tough. xd

@Tsuchi: I have seen things that would give you nightmares. I know very well about just how bad it can be to have a child with severe problems like that. I also know that the doctors told my mom when she was pregnant with me that I'd have some major issues too...she made the choice to go ahead with the pregnancy, and I'm just fine.

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[ZK]

Okay, I can't and don't have time to debate so many people without someone backing me up at all. I made my points, and if you don't like it, then tough. xd

@Tsuchi: I have seen things that would give you nightmares. I know very well about just how bad it can be to have a child with severe problems like that. I also know that the doctors told my mom when she was pregnant with me that I'd have some major issues too...she made the choice to go ahead with the pregnancy, and I'm just fine.

What you are is irrelevant. That your mother defied the odds and came out on top was lucky for you and yours, but some people aren't that lucky.
Really, you do sound isolated o_o

 

[Arwen410]

I'm pro-life. If I didn't believe in life I would not even attempt to help those that have wanted to commit suicide.

I've been asked before, "Should I keep it?" And you have no idea how hard it is to see someone go through something so painful (for them at least)and keep your stance in something. I can't impose my beliefs in other people so I do give them a piece of advice; but I always say, "In the end it's your choice." I'm not allowed to deliver any type of speech of why they should.

For me though, I will always want to see that life being born, than being stopped before it got a chance.

I also have to add that many people don't discuss the psychological effects it has on a woman after the abortion. It's really sad.

 

[Hipster Madara]

Pro Choice if it's rape or they're underaged or if it's under 3-4 months

 

[leggomynecro]

pro life

 

[The Western Wheel]

Pro thinking. Best way to (not)get babies... Are you ready and want to go for it. Go for it. Choice. don't want, or can't go for it, keep in mind the possible newborn and make your choice.

I think people always should be conscious about getting a baby, endorse a life of a un/newborn. It's not that hard. It you can't take care of it... Then you made a mistake, don't let that mistake grow into a human being.

But I'd say any woman getting pregnant, and her "donor" should think triple about not going down the road they took. RESPONSIBILITY is a key word here.

 

[svladcjelli42]

Only in America can you be pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-unmanned drone bombs, pro-nuclear weapons, pro-guns, pro-torture, pro-land mines, and still call yourself ‘pro-life.’ ~ John Fugelsang