[Theory] Princess Kaguya and Rikudou's Tribe Became the Uzumaki Clan

[FearxDeath]

The sage was the first human to be born with chakra. It was explicited on the page I referenced.

If this wasn't true, how could you explain that the Sage traveled in the world teaching its secrets, if the fruit appears once in a millenium?

I smell a huge inconsistency in this logic.

---

Also (if you didn't read my edit) remember that Madara was the one who revealed all the secrets of the tablet, Obito did not. Obito didn't achieve EMS, but Madara did. Obito could be wrong with his interpretation.

I actually explained this in an thread I posted earlier this week.

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See the problem here is that we know that Chakra is molded by mixing the Yin and yang energies that occur naturally in a persons body. And so everyone born not with chakra within them but the capacity to create chakra.

I think the chakra being talked about here is Senjutsu, but something else I have been thinking of lately is the fact that Uchiha are born with special chakra inside their heads which allow them to use the Sharingan. And thus if he was born with chakra them perhaps it pertains to the special chakra in ones head which allows them to use the Rinnegan?

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

The sage was the first human to be born with chakra. It was explicited on the page I referenced.

If this wasn't true, how could you explain that the Sage traveled in the world teaching its secrets, if the fruit appears once in a millenium?

I smell a huge inconsistency in this logic.

Not at all. Other people ate the fruit. Madara said so himself (although I know you still don't accept it). The only question really is why did he and his mother have more of an understanding of chakra than anyone else.

The only other explanations would be..

1. Through Onmyoudon, he was able to grant others the ability to use and wield chakra (assuming others didn't eat the fruit, which again, I think Madara already told us they did.)

2. Others ate the fruit. But weren't able to grasp the knowledge behind it like the Sage and his mother. Why? I don't know.


Referring back to my last post. You still are saying everyone is just a diluted version of the Uchiha and Senju, and again, I have shown why this isn't the case..

 

[Mr Hiru]

By being born with Chakra it's something that's inherent and instinctual to him, but through the knowledge of the application and accumulation of Chakra that he created/devised (Ninshuu) it's something that he was able to teach to other people, do you see the difference?

Someone could teach me how to use a hammer, but if I don't have a hammer to practice, that knowledge is quite useless. Everyone who is going to be taught by the that person would have to have a hammer to start with.

That's the logic that lends me to conclude that the only way to learn ninjutsu would be having chakra to start with, and under the Sage's context there are only two ways:

- Inheriting his /kinship bloodline
- Eating the fruit

There is no other way, because the manga already stated that he was the first one to be born with chakra. These are the only two methods that lend people a possibility to have and manipulate chakra.

Not at all. Other people ate the fruit. Madara said so himself (although I know you still don't accept it). The only question really is why did he and his mother have more of an understanding of chakra than anyone else.

The only other explanations would be..

1. Through Onmyoudon, he was able to grant others the ability to use and wield chakra (assuming others didn't eat the fruit, which again, I think Madara already told us they did.)

2. Others ate the fruit. But weren't able to grasp the knowledge behind it like the Sage and his mother. Why? I don't know.


Referring back to my last post. You still are saying everyone is just a diluted version of the Uchiha and Senju, and again, I have shown why this isn't the case..

1. This case seems to be the Uchiha/Senju ancestors.
2. It's still possible but unlikely. The princess ate the fruit, and this fruit appears once in a millenium.

 

[Draxus]

The Uzumaki and Senju descended from the Younger Son it's the only theory that makes sense. This is just more fan-fiction hmm

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Someone could teach me how to use a hammer, but if I don't have a hammer to practice, that knowledge is quite useless. Everyone who is going to be taught by the that person would have to have a hammer to start with.

That's the logic that lends me to conclude that the only way to learn ninjutsu would be having chakra to start with, and under the Sage's context there are only two ways:

- Inheriting his /kinship bloodline
- Eating the fruit

You simply cannot argue that all Shinobis descended from Rikudou Sennin, that is a tremendous falsity since it was clearly established that the Senjus and Uchihas were only his direct blood relatives, and the Uzumakis being distant blood relatives.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The Uzumaki and Senju descended from the Younger Son it's the only theory that makes sense. This is just more fan-fiction hmm

Show me a page where it's explicitly stated the Uzumakis descended from the Younger Son, where? none, for as I have showed you and the others already that the Senjus were the only descendants of the Younger Son:

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[FearxDeath]

Someone could teach me how to use a hammer, but if I don't have a hammer to practice, that knowledge is quite useless. Everyone who is going to be taught by the that person would have to have a hammer to start with.

That's the logic that lends me to conclude that the only way to learn ninjutsu would be having chakra to start with, and under the Sage's context there are only two ways:

- Inheriting his /kinship bloodline
- Eating the fruit

The only logical answer to this is that we are not talking about the same chakra.

Now if we assume that the Sage was born with the Rinnegan, which can be assumed if his mother recieved the Rinnegan from eating the fruit. Which I assuem because the technique she is seen using in the Manga is remniscent of Rinne Tesnei. Then he was born with Chakra inside him. The Chakra within the brain that allows one to use the Rinnegan, this would resemble the chakra within the brain that lets one use the Sharingan.

And thus we see that he was infact born with chakra inside of him, and at the same time could teach other people to manifest the chakra within themselves, via combining Yin and Yang Energies.

 

[Mr Hiru]

The only logical answer to this is that we are not talking about the same chakra.

Now if we assume that the Sage was born with the Rinnegan, which can be assumed if his mother recieved the Rinnegan from eating the fruit. Which I assuem because the technique she is seen using in the Manga is remniscent of Rinne Tesnei. Then he was born with Chakra inside him. The Chakra within the brain that allows one to use the Rinnegan, this would resemble the chakra within the brain that lets one use the Sharingan.

And thus we see that he was infact born with chakra inside of him, and at the same time could each other people to manifest the chakra within then, via combining Yin and Yang Energies.

Hmm... it's a good possibility.

But if this one was true (hypothetically) there are a lot of contradictions that should be cleared.

- This possibility assumes that the Sage had only two sons: Elder and Younger, that ended as Uchiha and Senju.
- Aside of these sons, there are not people that could be born with chakra.
The contradictions, for instance:

- What's the difference between the chakra that appeared in the Sage when he was born, and the chakra 'molded' from the combination of yin and yang energy.

- How did the Sage reach a way to mold chakra from yin yang energy if he already had chakra to start with.

- How is possible that the Hyuuga Clan could exist, having a doujutsu? People is not born with chakra, but with yin yang energy under this assumptions... that trait is not only rare, it is not even meant to exist.

- How did the Uzumaki Clan inherit large chakra pools, if the Sage only had two sons?

- If the Sage was the first human born with chakra, what happens if he runs out of chakra? This one is not only a contradiction, it is a paradox. This one is tricky and needs some abstraction to find the answer.

---

Too many contradictions for my taste.

 

[UnrealSoul]

It is funny that when ever someone is countering derps theory people call them a hater and yet have nothing to counter the persons comment. If anything their are more **** riders than haters and I feel that is a fact.

Derp has been wrong. He knows he has been wrong and that is why he changes his theories. If he is to say he has never been wrong then he is a complete liar and a hypocrite. Iv'e never agreed completely with derps theory based on his unforgetable made up fictional formula regarding the sage,jubbi,uzumaki,senju,and uchiha in which was dumb in my opinion.

Based on what I'm seeing derp has yet to fully counter some statements regarding his pride turning his theory into fan fiction in which people have rode on his side on. Also the fact that people have been proving flaws in his theory.

You can reply to me in flame but it will be ignored. All i'm saying is don't confuse a theory (Not a fact but can be a possible outcome) with fan fiction. Because many of you are just fanboying over the sage being an uzumaki and just completely bashing whoever thinks otherwise.

 

[Mr Hiru]

It is funny that when ever someone is countering derps theory people call them a hater and yet have nothing to counter the persons comment. If anything their are more **** riders than haters and I feel that is a fact.

Derp has been wrong. He knows he has been wrong and that is why he changes his theories. If he is to say he has never been wrong then he is a complete liar and a hypocrite. Iv'e never agreed completely with derps theory based on his unforgetable made up fictional formula regarding the sage,jubbi,uzumaki,senju,and uchiha in which was dumb in my opinion.

Based on what I'm seeing derp has yet to fully counter some statements regarding his pride turning his theory into fan fiction in which people have rode on his side on. Also the fact that people have been proving flaws in his theory.

You can reply to me in flame but it will be ignored. All i'm saying is don't confuse a theory (Not a fact but can be a possible outcome) with fan fiction. Because many of you are just fanboying over the sage being an uzumaki and just completely bashing whoever thinks otherwise.

Actually, I don't think he is wrong, I think he needs to open to more possibilities. In fact, my statements leads to a complementary possibility that includes his own conclusions.

 

[UnrealSoul]

Actually, I don't think he is wrong, I think he needs to open to more possibilities. In fact, my statements leads to a complementary possibility that includes his own conclusions.

Of course your statements do because their are many other possibilities. What I am talking about is the fact people don't see the possibilities due to their fanboying over the sage being a uzumaki.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Of course your statements do because their are many other possibilities. What I am talking about is the fact people don't see the possibilities due to their fanboying over the sage being a uzumaki.

Hmm well, they may have their own reasons. But I don't like to attack people, I like to discuss arguments since I assume everyone in this place is smart.

These discussion topics enriches us and gives people more insight of the context in the manga.

If you read my sig, you could deduce with no difficulty that my policy is to be opened to the most general possibility until each dimension of this possibility is discarded because of contradictions or proofs that plays against each dimension. With enough grade of refinement, the possibility can be reduced to specific and well constructed fact.

Of course, this is a hard process where you need a high grade of objectivity, because each subjective appreciation could lead your possibility in the wrong way. For example, basing assumptions on assumptions. That is a toxic practice that I rather avoid for the sake of purity and simplicity.

 

[Zyael]

Derp could be right, or he could be wrong. This thread is better then most the threads on NB(Itachi and Sasuke threads -.-) Nice thread derp, look forward to the next one!

 

[Draxus]

Show me a page where it's explicitly stated the Uzumakis descended from the Younger Son, where? none, for as I have showed you and the others already that the Senjus were the only descendants of the Younger Son:

Why do I need to show you a page, you already linked it. Didn't you noticed the many branches forking off the main one? You know it well enough that the Uchiha and Senju are the product of the Sages original bloodline being diluted by other clans over generations. It make no sense no other families w/ ties to these bloodlines wouldn't exist. There is direct descendants and then there are indirect descendants. This could also explain where all the special clans come from (Juugo's, Hyuga, ect).

I'm going by the manga, you're making up stuff to fill in gaps to skew things in favor of the sage somehow being an Uzumaki. Just accept the facts and move on.

 

[Seventh Sama]

So, Sage was born with rinnegan? Derp, i got a question. why would the clan change their name to uzumaki? why not just keep their original surname .-.

 

[Mr Hiru]

You simply cannot argue that all Shinobis descended from Rikudou Sennin, that is a tremendous falsity since it was clearly established that the Senjus and Uchihas were only his direct blood relatives, and the Uzumakis being distant blood relatives.

When I said Kinship I related to the possibility of the Sage having younger brothers/sisters that created a breed of people with chakra in their bloodline.

I hope this clears this misinterpretation.

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PS: I'd like to see a page where it explicites that the sage had only two sons.

You're assuming that he had brothers in first place that gave birth to the Uzumaki Clan, so I'll assume that he had the younger son, the elder son, and a lot of sons between them.

... * sigh *

 

[FearxDeath]

Hmm... it's a good possibility.

But if this one was true (hypothetically) there are a lot of contradictions that should be cleared.

- This possibility assumes that the Sage had only two sons: Elder and Younger, that ended as Uchiha and Senju.
- Aside of these sons, there are not people that could be born with chakra.
The contradictions, for instance:

- What's the difference between the chakra that appeared in the Sage when he was born, and the chakra 'molded' from the combination of yin and yang energy.

- How did the Sage reach a way to mold chakra from yin yang energy if he already had chakra to start with.

- How is possible that the Hyuuga Clan could exist, having a doujutsu? People is not born with chakra, but with yin yang energy under this assumptions... that trait is not only rare, it is not even meant to exist.

- How did the Uzumaki Clan inherit large chakra pools, if the Sage only had two sons?

- If the Sage was the first human born with chakra, what happens if he runs out of chakra? This one is not only a contradiction, it is a paradox. This one is tricky and needs some abstraction to find the answer.

---

Too many contradictions for my taste.

Well thought out, but again granted that my assumption is correct these proposed contradictions would no longer be contradictions.

When I said Kinship I related to the possibility of the Sage having younger brothers/sisters that created a breed of people with chakra in their bloodline.

I hope this clears this misinterpretation.

---

PS: I'd like to see a page where it explicites that the sage had only two sons.

You're assuming that he had brothers in first place, so I'll assume that he had the younger son, the elder son, and a lot of sons between them.

... * sigh *

Interesting point... and very possible. Id like to hear the answer to this one as well.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

Very plausible theory here, I'm proud of u derp, son

 

[-ahhimane-]

Nice theory bro

I also want to add my thoughts =D

Just like when a girl marries a man, her surname changes to her husband's surname.
I believe that Kaguya might be from Uzumaki tribe. A simple non-ninjutsu wielders.
Kaguya got the surname Ootsutsuki from her husband's tribe. After eating the fruit, she was the only one with strong chakra reserves.
Rikudo was Kaguya's son. He also got the chakra reserves and strong chakra from his mother.
Rikudo preached the whole world about Ninjutsu and chakra.
Senjus and Uchihas were descendants of the Sage. But Uzumakis have blood relation with them indirectly.
Since the Uzumakis born with strong chakra the tribe might have named their clan "Uzumaki" in reference with Kaguya's tribe who (Kaguya) had strong chakra.
Kaguya gained holy power. In the manga she seemed more like the Demon God Reaper ( Death demon seal ).
In the past people use to worship the God and give sacrifices of human, animals etc for certain things to happen/occur. Demon seal acts similar to that, one must sacrifice his own life in order to accomplish something.
That's how I believe the Uzumakis came into existence. But as Madara said, As time passed, the history was forgotten. Similar way, Uzumakis might have forgotten about their actual origin.

What do you think ?

 

[girya]

SO6P is not an uzumaki. Derp obito's theory was awesome and everything made sense. However, now lets wait for kishi to reveal what exactly happened.

This post is just speculating without any proof or any analysis. Kishi will explain the connection between Naruto and SO6P lets be patient.