[Theory] Princess Kaguya and Rikudou's Tribe Became the Uzumaki Clan

[DeathandEnvy]

Wow you are always out doing yourself Derp, awesome read!

 

[theacknowledgedone]

I've seen a lot of negativity on this thread, hop off his back people. Sir Derp whether or not its right or wrong it's still insightful and interesting to read your theories. They are all things that could happen, keep up the good work man!

P.S you can clearly see the children from the men in this thread. Smh U_U

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The Viz translation referred to Rikudou as the "Founder of Shinobi" which in context means "Father of Shinobi" not by blood, but by establishing the institution, the same way Einstein is the Father of Modern Physics.

Viz:

Spoiler

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[Mr Hiru]

The Viz translation referred to Rikudou as the "Founder of Shinobi" which in context means "Father of Shinobi" not by blood, but by establishing the institution, the same way Einstein is the Father of Modern Physics.

Where in ViZ is stated that this is not by blood?

That statement seems rather subjective.

Anyways, it seems that we still need the raw to confirm.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Where in ViZ is stated that this is not by blood?

That statement seems rather subjective.

Anyways, it seems that we still need the raw to confirm.

Founder of Shinobi:

Viz

Spoiler

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[saw2097]

Where in ViZ is stated that this is not by blood?

That statement seems rather subjective.

Anyways, it seems that we still need the raw to confirm.

Like I brought up in an earlier post, the Sage couldn't be related to all Shinobi because some of them aren't human, the Toads, Snakes, Dogs, Slugs, and etc.

 

[- J AV -]

nice theory enjoy it,, may be possible

 

[Mr Hiru]

Like I brought up in an earlier post, the Sage couldn't be related to all Shinobi because some of them aren't human, the Toads, Snakes, Dogs, Slugs, and etc.

I didn't answer you, but I'd like to recall that these creatures of nature manipulate natural energy, they don't use chakra.

Sage Mode is the gathering of natural energy, and posterior balance with spiritual and physical energy. Sage Mode is something that can be achieved by humans, as far as I know.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

The Sage could have other sons aside the Uchiha and Senju, and even he could have brothers with chakra, but I'll base the answer on the facts: He had two sons.

As for people 'without chakra', there is not explicit answer. But, for instance, there are villagers that did choose to not become ninja (they have their own jobs, it could be because they didn't have the ability in their blood).

There are clans which power was weakened due the Sage's bloodline being thinned with the flow of time (people with the Sage's blood married others without the sage's blood, resulting in people with less chakra/ability).

Most people with poor chakra/ability died in the war against the Uchiha and Senju, that is manga fact.

That is (as I can concieve) a plausible answer for your question.

Hmmm, I don't know about that... Like which people? Sasuke's aunt and uncle? Who are referred to as Uchiha and therefore share Sasuke's blood. I can level with you with Ichiruka...who's surname is never revealed, so he could very well not be related to anyone who is a ninja, but I just don't think so...its a weak argument.

I think one thing youre forgetting are peoples chakra affinities. We know, for a fact, that Uchiha possess fire. Every Uchiha does...it is passed down through their blood. But...then that brings up something weird. If everyone is related to the Uchiha somehow, then why does everyone not share their affinity? Which is undoubtedly passed through blood. If you say, well people married Non-Uchiha soo their affinities change. Okay...then how? Lets say a male Uchiha, whos affinity to use fire is in his blood, marries some one not in the Sage's bloodline...like some one who can't use chakra. Then, they have a child...and that child can useeeee...? What? A lesser version of fire jutsu? No impact should be coming from the mother, remember, she cant use chakra.

Listen, I know im getting off topic. But my point is that the diversity we see between people is because they all have different ancestors. There is a flaw with your logic if you think everyone is related to the Uchiha and Senju ancestor (forget about the Sage for now). Everyone can't be related to those two because there is no way their specific traits could pan out with normal, non-chakra wielding people. Everyone would be the same...or a diluted version of the Senju and Uchiha...and theyre not. Everyone from every country is unique. The simple and best answer is because they all originated from different people.

I think I know how you are going to respond, but seriously think about how construed, messy and complicated an explanation of everyone being related to the two sons would be...when a better answer is out there.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Founder of Shinobi:

Viz

Spoiler

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Derp, with all respect... don't bring pages that I didn't call. Please, I'm talking about

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one.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The key phrasing here is descendants. This means that the Younger son himself is not stated to be claiming that he's Senju.... Just that his descendants have been called this. This leaves an unspecified time in which side branching could occure to create side clans such as Uzumaki and Hyuga for instance.

Furthermore, Kushina mentions they are distant blood relatives. Being the clan the Senju directly descend from (were Ootsutsuki to truly have name changed to Uzumaki) then why are they "distant blood relatives"?! It makes no sense if they are the direct blood progenitors. Furthermore a more direct or progenitor description should have been chosen than one that sounds like that of a cousin.


That being said... It is still too soon to know anything for certain. All we know is right now the Sage's name is Hogoromo Ootsutsuki. This theory is plausible, but with the revelation that so far it is not Uzumaki, and that which I explained above... I can't see him changing to Uzumaki.

The Sage is still the Progenitor of the Uzumaki... He just seemingly is also the progenitor of other clans (most likely Hyuga, Uchiha, and Senju) as well, and it isn't that these three generate from the Uzumaki directly.

As always good theory.

That is merely semantics, the Elder Son may not have been called an Uchiha during his life, but by virtue of blood, he is Uchiha that's why he's the Uchiha Ancestor, same goes for the Senjus and the Younger Son.

Distant blood relationship means the apical ancestor of the Senjus,Uchihas and Uzumakis are different, the Apical ancestor of both Senju and Uchiha and their direct Ancestors the Elder and Younger Sons was the Rikudou Sennin, the Apical ancestor of the Uzumaki Clan were Rikudou's kinsmen, that is why they are distant, not close relatives of the Senjus and Uchihas.

Also take note, the Uzumaki Clan inherited the Fuuinjutsus of Rikudou:

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Now tell me, if they are off-shoots from either the Elder and Younger Sons, why did they inherit something as important and prominent as Rikudou's Jutsus while the Senjus and Uchihas didn't? It is Rikudou/Hagoromo directly gave it to them which means the progenitor Uzumakis preceded the Elder and Younger Sons.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Derp, with all respect... don't bring pages that I didn't call. Please, I'm talking about

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one.

The Viz isn't out yet but it's the same: Ancestor of Shinobi, Father of Shinobi, Founder of Shinobi, they all mean the same: Rikudou founded Ninshuu, it doesn't mean that all Shinobis descended from him, Rikudou/Hagoromo wasn't Adam, he wasn't the first human, quite the contrary there were already many people back then.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Derp, with all respect... don't bring pages that I didn't call. Please, I'm talking about

You must be registered for see links

one.

Its actually the page after that eh?

 

[Mr Hiru]

Its actually the page after that eh?

I'm summoning the 'ancestor'. But I'd ask for that page too if you like.

It's the same, ancestor of Shinobi, father of Shinobi, founder of Shinobi, they all mean the same: Rikudou founded Ninshuu, it doesn't mean that all Shinobis descended from him, Rikudou/Hagoromo wasn't Adam, he wasn't the first human.

But he was the first to wield chakra naturally. Please, Ancestor is quite a different word. That's why I'm humble questioning to you to summon the ViZ pages I'm calling:

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You must be registered for see links

If these pages said 'ancestor' then the Sage is being referenced by bloodline. If it was instanced by 'father' it might be philosophical. These are quite different concepts, I'd ask to not manipulate language here.

At least remember that the one who learned all the secrets of the Uchiha Tablet was Madara with his Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, and not Obito with his Mangekyo Sharingan. Obito couldn't decypher all the secrets, so your reference is non-conclusive.

 

[FearxDeath]

I absolutely deny the proposition that the Uzumakis were mere descendants of the Senjus, it is clear in the Manga that the Younger Son's descendants were specified to be the Senjus only.

I dont think that statement "And the younger brother's descendants the Senju" is sufficient enough to make the claim that the sons descendants were specified to be the Senju only. Because if I reversed it it would be shown to be fallacious logic. Example, if I say that no birds can pass through this wall, and therefore no birds will go inside. Then the opposite of that statement must also be true which is that no birds that are already inside can come outside.

1)
Now if you take the qoute "The descendants of the younger brother were called Senju" to be exclusive then, then much like the bird example above it must be mutually exclusive. And thus when you say that no Senju left the Clan and became a part of a different clan you also say that no one from a different clan joined the Senju. Which is not true as we know that Mito and Hashirama were married and as is custom she would have taken on his surname.

2)
Now Naruto is the Child of Minato and Kushina, and therefore he is both the descendant of the Namikaze and the Uzumaki. And initially it was planned for him to take Minato's surname but since the 3rd didnt want Minato's enemies hunting Naruto he took Kushina's surname becoming an Uzumaki. Now if we apply this very same situation to that of a Senju, then we see it is quite possible for a Descendant of the younger brother to not be a Senju, but a different Clan. This doesnt prove anything but it does show that the situation is their and isnt unlikely given the leader of the Senju Clan itself married outside of the Clan.

Now the above isnt Solid evidence that the statement is wrong, but it is reasonable doubt. Which is why I said you showed that it was "Unlikely that the Uzumaki are a branch of the Senju."

I'm summoning the 'ancestor'. But I'd ask for that page too if you like.



But he was the first to wield chakra naturally. Please, Ancestor is quite a different word. That's why I'm humble questioning to you to summon the ViZ pages I'm calling:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

If these pages said 'ancestor' then the Sage is being referenced by bloodline. If it was instanced by 'father' it might be philosophical. These are quite different concepts, I'd ask to not manipulate language here.

Hate to interupt you guys. But I would have to agree with Derp on this one simply for the fact that we know that after "divining the true meaning of chakra" the sage then when on a journey to teach everyone his religion, which became known as ninjutsu.

A person who uses ninjutsu is a ninja, a ninja is synonomous for shinobi. That right there tells you their is no blood relation to him and all shinobi because someone who became a shinobi by learning from the Sage is ofcourse not related to him by blood. (And based on the fact that he jounreyed around we know he wasnt just teaching his own clan memebers.)

So we see that him being the father of the shinobi is much like einstein being the father of physics. Because he gave knowledge that was essential to the flourishing or creation of physics/shinobi.

I think what caused confusion was the use of the word ancestor which is a double entendre. Hope this helps x__x

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I'm summoning the 'ancestor'. But I'd ask for that page too if you like.



But he was the first to wield chakra naturally. Please, Ancestor is quite a different word. That's why I'm humble questioning to you to summon the ViZ pages I'm calling:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

If these pages said 'ancestor' then the Sage is being referenced by bloodline. If it was instanced by 'father' it might be philosophical. These are quite different concepts, I'd ask to not manipulate language here.

I told you the Viz for 646 isn't out yet but that definitely does not pertain to bloodline, not all Shinobis descended form the Sage, think logically: Rikudou Sennin travelled the world and spread the teachings of Ninshuu to people, naturally these other people outside of his own family/kin were not blood relatives of Rikudou, they were just people who lived during his time.

 

[Filo]

great thread I still support you!

 

[Mr Hiru]

I told you the Viz for 646 isn't out yet but that definitely does not pertain to bloodline, not all Shinobis descended form the Sage, think logically: Rikudou Sennin travelled the world and spread the teachings of Ninshuu to people, naturally these other people outside of his own family/kin were not blood relatives of Rikudou, they were just people who lived during his time.

The sage was the first human to be born with chakra. It was explicited on the page I referenced.

If this wasn't true, how could you explain that the Sage traveled in the world teaching its secrets, if the fruit appears once in a millenium?

I smell a huge inconsistency in this logic.

---

Also (if you didn't read my edit) remember that Madara was the one who revealed all the secrets of the tablet, Obito did not. Obito didn't achieve EMS, but Madara did. Obito could be wrong with his interpretation.

 

[Kronnic]

Shut up, please. You have no proof for your theory, you've got a bunch of pictures to make it look nice but realistically you have no substance.

Anyone could claim ANYTHING if it hasn't yet proved to be incorrect.

For instance, I could claim I have a theory concerning the fight between the Juubi and SO6P, that the SO6P didn't fight the Juubi but just sealed him.

It fits into the story, but is realistically complete bullshit, with no evidence pointing to it.

Your "I firmly believe" is fooling nobody.

Stop trying to save some pride, accept you were wrong.

Did Derp screw your Girlfriend, Sister or better yet your Mother?
Why are you hating brah?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The sage was the first human to be born with chakra. It was explicited on the page I referenced.

If this wasn't true, how could you explain that the Sage traveled in the world teaching its secrets, if the fruit appears once in a millenium?

I smell a huge inconsistency in this logic.

---

Also (if you didn't read my edit) remember that Madara was the one who revealed all the secrets of the tablet, Obito did not. Obito didn't achieve EMS, but Madara did.

By being born with Chakra it's something that's inherent and instinctual to him, but through the knowledge of the application and accumulation of Chakra that he created/devised (Ninshuu) it's something that he was able to teach to other people, do you see the difference?