Preliminary CE Lee VS Preliminary CE Neji

[Booker]

Read my edited post, i always seem to leave some stuff out after i post my initial post. My point is, he followed Naruto fine in KN0 and was only caught off guard in one scenario(When he blitzed him straight forward). You shouldn't assume he was struggling to keep up with Naruto off of that one time. Especially when Naruto should have been half dead by that point, and magically got stronger and faster in mere seconds. We all know its much different having Intel on someone's abilities than by not having any at all.

He wasn't following Naruto "fine" in KN0. He was managing to keep up, but there are times during that fight when Naruto blitzes behind Neji and it takes Neji by surprise. Not only that, but your claim makes no sense with what I said. My point is that Naruto's speed was able to put Neji in a position where he physically could barely match Naruto. Hence why he wasn't even able to put up rotation at Naruto's blitz.

And it was Naruto's speed Neji was shocked by in that scan, which is why he states Naruto's speed lol.

 

[neosmith500]

I honestly think Kishi initially had a lot of plans for Neji. I mean, after the time skip, out of all the K11 HE was the only one to become Jonin. That tells me early on in P2 Kishi had not forgotten about the genius of Hyuga clan and had more in store for him. I can't say what happened much after that though.

I feel it could've been due to changes in editing + allot of bad ideas and time constraints because both Lee and Neji were sidelined and both were really greats characters.

-Neji making Jonin could've lead to a nice dynamic in P2 if he had his own Genin to look out for , as i said above Kishi was gearing P1 to involve a more mission based structure that could've showed us all the other teams on missions and with a steady power scaling + more jutsu especially for Naruto , but when p2 came along and Naruto trained with Jiraiya for 2 years everything seemed to have changed , Naruto didn't learn anything but a bigger Rasengan , Sakura became a copy of Tsunade without progress in her Genjutsu affinity or other unique Jutsus and the showed began gearing to a more overpowered and spamming direction and we've still havn't seem even Ten of Kkashi's 1000 Jutsu he copied from his badass P1 Days but was only teased with it in the War SMH.

 

[Simbv]

He wasn't following Naruto "fine" in KN0. He was managing to keep up, but there are times during that fight when Naruto blitzes behind Neji and it takes Neji by surprise. Not only that, but your claim makes no sense with what I said. My point is that Naruto's speed was able to put Neji in a position where he physically could barely match Naruto. Hence why he wasn't even able to put up rotation at Naruto's blitz.

And it was Naruto's speed Neji was shocked by in that scan, which is why he states Naruto's speed lol.

If these scans don't prove to you that Neji was fine untill the kaiten clash, then it makes no sense continuing this conversation.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Somehow, "struggling to keep up" he was able to get off a full rotation while Naruto being behind him, catch the shuriken that Naruto had just thrown while still ending his rotation,WHILE they were still in the air, throw them back, throw another shuriken catch those and then clash with Naruto again? Sure bro. If he was struggling to keep up then he wouldn;t have been able to do half of those things. And my point still stands about him being off guard from Naruto's sudden increase in speed and power. Had he known that Naruto could do that in advance he would have been more prepared.

 

[Zexion~]

Totally different circumstances. Naruto faced a Gaara without his auto-protection sand, and his victory wasn't due to speed. If Naruto had faced the base Gaara there is no way in hell he would have won.



I'm referring to stuff like this;

You must be registered for see images

Neji is shocked by Naruto's speed and is now struggling to keep up, as evidenced when he barely got off rotation during their clash.

Lee was moving like a billion times faster than Naruto here. I just don't think the feats add up to say Neji > Lee.

He was fighting Jin Gaara that should by all means be faster than base so, Lee had already surpassed his auto defense sand even before 3rd/5th gate whichever was the one he said would beat Neji.

 

[Simbv]

I feel it could've been due to changes in editing + allot of bad ideas and time constraints because both Lee and Neji were sidelined and both were really greats characters.

-Neji making Jonin could've lead to a nice dynamic in P2 if he had his own Genin to look out for , as i said above Kishi was gearing P1 to involve a more mission based structure that could've showed us all the other teams on missions and with a steady power scaling + more jutsu especially for Naruto , but when p2 came along and Naruto trained with Jiraiya for 2 years everything seemed to have changed , Naruto didn't learn anything but a bigger Rasengan , Sakura became a copy of Tsunade without progress in her Genjutsu affinity or other unique Jutsus and the showed began gearing to a more overpowered and spamming direction and we've still havn't seen even Ten of Kakashi's 1000 Jutsu he copied from his badass P1 Days but was only teased with it in the War SMH.

I had so much high hopes when i first started watching part 2 back in like 2008, but too many well written characters were left behind for the Uchiha clan. It just got repetitive after a while. It always bugged me how Kishi or his editors or whoever, forgot about the Hyuga clan when their are only 3 known dojutsu's in Naru-Verse.

 

[neosmith500]

He wasn't following Naruto "fine" in KN0. He was managing to keep up, but there are times during that fight when Naruto blitzes behind Neji and it takes Neji by surprise. Not only that, but your claim makes no sense with what I said. My point is that Naruto's speed was able to put Neji in a position where he physically could barely match Naruto. Hence why he wasn't even able to put up rotation at Naruto's blitz.

And it was Naruto's speed Neji was shocked by in that scan, which is why he states Naruto's speed lol.

Neji wasn't shown struggling in the least , only getting accustomed to the new situation and his speed , by portrayal KN0 Naruto never thought it was a wise idea to directly confront Neji in Taijutsu choosing to shunshin all the way to the side of the stadium while trying a ranged attack by throwing shuriken.

-Afterwards when Naruto decided to run at Neji he clearly did did with a Counter-measure in mind and that was to Release a crazy amount of Kurama's power which created a Giant Wall around Naruto's whole body while he bull rushed Neji head on at top speed. The Wall of Chakra that Naruto released is what caught Neji off-Guard as we see in The Bttom Left of this scan up to the following scans so follow closely.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

-Naruto was Fast but Neji wasn't struggling with his speed at all and was caught off-guard by more than one factor but no doubt speed played a part just not the main part as Neji was shown ready to handle him until Naruto released the wall of Chakra.If Naruto had ran at Neji without this massive release of Chakra he would've obviously been neg diffed by Kaiten which is why Neji was caught of Guard because he had no idea Naruto was capable doing something very close to his own ability.

 

[Booker]

Spoiler

if these scans don't prove to you that Neji was fine untill the kaiten clash, then it makes no sense continuing this conversation.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Somehow, "struggling to keep up"

Again, "struggling to keep up" doesn't mean that Neji is getting completely stomped and blind-sided. What it means is that he can now more or less equal Naruto's speed, but it's not without effort. I have ran many 400m dashes in my life, and there have been multiple times where I finish maybe a quarter a second behind someone while struggling to keep up.

he was able to get off a full rotation while Naruto being behind him, catch the shuriken that Naruto had just thrown while still ending his rotation,WHILE they were still in the air, throw them back, throw another shuriken catch those and then clash with Naruto again?

Neji blocked some shuriken that Naruto threw? 5 gold stars for Neji. I don't know why you think that blocking some shuriken with Rotation is comparable to Naruto blitzing Neji and him being unable to complete Rotation, but ok. Clashing with Naruto proves nothing except that they were more or less equal in speed.

Sure bro. If he was struggling to keep up then he wouldn;t have been able to do half of those things.

Well, he was, and he did. So no.

And my point still stands about him being off guard from Naruto's sudden increase in speed and power. Had he known that Naruto could do that in advance he would have been more prepared.

You're arguing against yourself here. One minute you're saying that Neji was perfectly capable of keeping of with Naruto's speed, but then suddenly he gets blitzed by the same guy because he's in shock over his speed. Like I said, Neji's inability to complete Rotation there doesn't come from his shock, it comes from Naruto blitzing him and him only being able to start the beginning of Rotation.

If Neji's inability to complete Rotation is a product solely of him being in shock, you're going to need to provide scans and evidence that state that. Otherwise it's just a pathetic assumption to try and support your point.

 

[Simbv]

Again, "struggling to keep up" doesn't mean that Neji is getting completely stomped and blind-sided. What it means is that he can now more or less equal Naruto's speed, but it's not without effort. I have ran many 400m dashes in my life, and there have been multiple times where I finish maybe a quarter a second behind someone while struggling to keep up.



Neji blocked some shuriken that Naruto threw? 5 gold stars for Neji. I don't know why you think that blocking some shuriken with Rotation is comparable to Naruto blitzing Neji and him being unable to complete Rotation, but ok. Clashing with Naruto proves nothing except that they were more or less equal in speed.



Well, he was, and he did. So no.



You're arguing against yourself here. One minute you're saying that Neji was perfectly capable of keeping of with Naruto's speed, but then suddenly he gets blitzed by the same guy because he's in shock over his speed. Like I said, Neji's inability to complete Rotation there doesn't come from his shock, it comes from Naruto blitzing him and him only being able to start the beginning of Rotation.

If Neji's inability to complete Rotation is a product solely of him being in shock, you're going to need to provide scans and evidence that state that. Otherwise it's just a pathetic assumption to try and support your point.

Meh. Still failing to see my point. The point is he is not strugglign to keep up as you intially said, the point is he is taking the fight more seriously after naruto just got 3x stronger and faster. I only included the last part about him having intel because you stated that he would struggle keeping up with 5 gates Lee because he struggled to keep up with kn0 Naruto(which you changed your mind about).

 

[Booker]

He was fighting Jin Gaara that should by all means be faster than base so, Lee had already surpassed his auto defense sand even before 3rd/5th gate whichever was the one he said would beat Neji.

Evidence that Jin Gaara was faster than his auto-aim sand in base?

Neji wasn't shown struggling in the least , only getting accustomed to the new situation and his speed , by portrayal KN0 Naruto never thought it was a wise idea to directly confront Neji in Taijutsu choosing to shunshin all the way to the side of the stadium while trying a ranged attack by throwing shuriken.

-Afterwards when Naruto decided to run at Neji he clearly did did with a Counter-measure in mind and that was to Release a crazy amount of Kurama's power which created a Giant Wall around Naruto's whole body while he bull rushed Neji head on at top speed. The Wall of Chakra that Naruto released is what caught Neji off-Guard as we see in The Bttom Left of this scan up to the following scans so follow closely.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

-Naruto was Fast but Neji wasn't struggling with his speed at all and was caught off-guard by more than one factor but no doubt speed played a part just not the main part as Neji was shown ready to handle him until Naruto released the wall of Chakra.

I don't understand what your point here is. Regardless of how Naruto did it, the fact was that he caught Neji off guard with a speed blitz. Neji's shock there is from the speed and his inability to get a complete Rotation off in time. I have no idea why you think that Neji's shock somehow stunted his ability to perform jutsu. Just because an exclamation point was there? Lol

This is only supported further by the statement that you're actually citing. Neji is stating "Kaiten..." with the ellipses, blatantly suggesting that he was unable to complete it in time.

My point here isn't that Naruto completely stomped Neji in speed. It's that Neji now had to actually give effort to match Naruto's speed, which is perfectly acceptable to define as struggling (especially since he failed).

Meh. Still failing to see my point.

Great argument, I concede.

The point is he is not strugglign to keep up as you intially said, the point is he is taking the fight more seriously after naruto just got 3x stronger and faster. I only included the last part about him having intel because you stated that he would struggle keeping up with 5 gates Lee because he struggled to keep up with kn0 Naruto(which you changed your mind about).

I never changed my mind about that. Neji is both keeping up with Naruto in speed AND struggling to keep up. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

This ties into this thread because my point at the very beginning of this was that Neji should not be able to keep up with even 3rd Gate Lee, because he was barely able to keep up with KN0 Naruto who is much slower. I haven't changed any of my positions, and I have no idea why you think I have.

 

[neosmith500]

I don't understand what your point here is. Regardless of how Naruto did it, the fact was that he caught Neji off guard with a speed blitz.

Only it wasn't a speed blitz that caught Neji off-Guard it was Naruto releasing a wall of Chakra. :lol..

My point here isn't that Naruto completely stomped Neji in speed. It's that Neji now had to actually give effort to match Naruto's speed, which is perfectly acceptable to define as struggling (especially since he failed).

And this was due to more than speed , as he wasn't struggling to follow the speed itself nor keep up.

Bottom left of this scan is wat Caught Neji off-Gaurd.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Simbv]

Only it wasn't a speed blitz that caught Neji off-Guard it was Naruto releasing a wall of Chakra. :lol..



And this was due to more than speed , as he wasn't struggling with to follow the speed itself..

His definition of struggling is far different from mine. "Struggling to keep up' to me is

Part 1 Sasuke vs Lee after Lee's introduction
Unweighted Lee Vs Gaara's Sand
Sasuke vs Bee when he took the swords out.
Kimimaro vs Drunken Lee.
Chunin Finals Sasuke vs Gaara's Sand
Vote KN0 Naruto vs 2-TM Sasuke

Those are some examples of struggling to keep up, not this one.

 

[Booker]

Only it wasn't a speed blitz that caught Neji off-Guard it was Naruto releasing a wall of Chakra. :lol..

Actually it was the speed blitz, considering that Neji was unable to complete the Rotation. I think you're confused here. It doesn't matter if Naruto threw up a wall of chakra; if Naruto was moving at a rate in which Neji was perfectly capable of addressing, he would have been able to complete the Rotation. And besides, you could just as well make the argument that Naruto's chakra surge there increased his speed.

And this was due to more than speed , as he wasn't struggling with to follow the speed itself..

Bttom left of this scan is wat Caught Neji off-Gaurd.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Already explained above.

 

[neosmith500]

Actually it was the speed blitz, considering that Neji was unable to complete the Rotation. I think you're confused here. It doesn't matter if Naruto threw up a wall of chakra; if Naruto was moving at a rate in which Neji was perfectly capable of addressing, he would have been able to complete the Rotation. And besides, you could just as well make the argument that Naruto's chakra surge there increased his speed.

And its simple logic to deduce that he would've started his spin sooner if Naruto didn't surprise him with that stunt
:lol Even If u added the Bold to the argument then it only adds to my point that Neji was caught off-Guard by the Chakra and started Kaiten late due to both factors which wouldn't have happen if Naruto had not done that and if Neji knew he could do that. Both factors would address the late start of Kaiten , not simply speed but as i noted speed did play a part only not the main part so no Neji didn't struggle.

-Take the Wall of Chakra out of the picture and even if Naruto's surge increased his speed that would've only made matters worse for him if he ran up on Kaiten without The Wall.:lol Which was clearly wat Neji thought he was doing until the Wall popped outa nowhere while Naruto was already running full speed towards him seemingly with that in mind to counter Kaiten :yeah:

 

[Booker]

And its simple logic to deduce that he would've started his spin sooner if Naruto didn't surprise him with that stunt
:lol Even If u added the Bold to the argument then it only adds to my point that Neji was caught off-Guard by the Chakra and started Kaiten late due to both factors which wouldn't have happen if Naruto had not done that and if Neji knew he could do that. Both factors would address the late start of Kaiten , not simply speed but as i noted speed did play a part only not the main part so no Neji didn't struggle.

Except the stunt was a speed feat. By surging his chakra Naruto both gained the advantage of (1) speeding himself up to catch Neji offguard (2) Placing some sort of defense between him and Neji.

Look at that scan again. The chakra wall is not the only reason that Neji's Rotation is incomplete. Take away that chakra wall, and Naruto is still within maybe a few feet of Neji's Rotation.

Now, take that and apply it to this thread. This thread is about Lee, who in 3rd Gate, is approximately 10,576 X faster than Naruto in KN0. Naruto was within feet of Neji's incomplete rotation. Lee would be hitting Neji from above, behind, and sideways all within that timeframe.

 

[neosmith500]

Except the stunt was a speed feat. By surging his chakra Naruto both gained the advantage of (1) speeding himself up to catch Neji offguard (2) Placing some sort of defense between him and Neji.

The stunt was more than a speed blitz , speed wasn't the main factor in that result as i keep telling u.

-Speed would've literally been Naruto's downfall if he didn't release the Wall.:lol

Look at that scan again. The chakra wall is not the only reason that Neji's Rotation is incomplete. Take away that chakra wall, and Naruto is still within maybe a few feet of Neji's Rotation.

Take away that Wall of Chakra and Naruto would've ran into Kaiten and gotten Neg diffed:lol.

Now, take that and apply it to this thread. This thread is about Lee, who in 3rd Gate, is approximately 10,576 X faster than Naruto in KN0. Naruto was within feet of Neji's incomplete rotation. Lee would be hitting Neji from above, behind, and sideways all within that timeframe.

U have no clue of the gap betwen 3rd Gated Lee and KN0 , its irrelevant because i wasn't arguing against it even tho i disagree as the point ur trying to apply doesn't work since i addressed it as being more than speed and the Bold is based on ntn but ur thoughts and opinion.

 

[Booker]

The stunt was more than a speed blitz , speed wasn't the main factor in that result as i keep telling u.

And I disagree entirely, since without a speed advantage that never would have worked.

Take away that Wall of Chakra and Naruto would've ran into Kaiten and gotten Neg diffed:lol.

Way to completely ignore what I stated to make a convenient argument. Who cares if Naruto would have been hit by Rotation? I agree. The point is that even without the chakra wall, he was within feet of an incomplete Rotation using his speed alone. Substitute Lee in for Naruto and he completely bypasses it.

U have no clue of the gap betwen 3rd Gated Lee and KN0 , its irrelevant because i wasn't arguing against it even tho i disagree as the point ur trying to apply doesn't work since i addressed it as being more than speed.

Of course I do, lol. Are you actually arguing that 3rd Gate Lee is slower than KN0 Naruto? Lee wasn't even in 3rd Gate and he was already borderline teleporting around Gaara with speed alone. Throw in 3rd Gate and it's not even close.

Go back and reread, and then come up with an accurate argument once you understand my position.

 

[KIDD WAVE]

With Gates, Neji loses, without, Neji wins.

 

[neosmith500]

And I disagree entirely, since without a speed advantage that never would have worked.

Naruto's speed wasn't enough to warrant a blitz , Catching Neji off-Guard plus enhanced speed addresses why Kaiten was started late with the Wall being the Main factor to everything concerning the result as Neji thought he was simply running towards him without having knowledge of that ability.

Way to completely ignore what I stated to make a convenient argument. Who cares if Naruto would have been hit by Rotation? I agree. The point is that even without the chakra wall, he was within feet of an incomplete Rotation using his speed alone. Substitute Lee in for Naruto and he completely bypasses it.

Substitute Lee for Naruto and Neji would've started his Kaiten sooner with Chakra cocoon already prepped at full power and ready to go since he knows Lees speed is no joke, Lee's speed in Gates would result in massive damage for him even if Kaiten was imperfect.

Of course I do, lol. Are you actually arguing that 3rd Gate Lee is slower than KN0 Naruto? Lee wasn't even in 3rd Gate and he was already borderline teleporting around Gaara with speed alone. Throw in 3rd Gate and it's not even close.

No , but u giving exact calculations is nonsense and that so called borderline teleportation is ntn for prelim Neji to handle physically without rotation.

Go back and reread, and then come up with an accurate argument once you understand my position.

LOL this guy.

 

[Booker]

Naruto's speed wasn't enough to warrant a blitz , Catching Neji off-Guard plus enhanced speed addresses why Kaiten was started late with the Wall being the Main factor to everything concerning the result as Neji thought he was simply running towards him without having knowledge of that ability.

Nope. The speed was the entire reason that that technique was successful. Take away the speed and nothing happens.

Substitute Lee for Naruto and Neji would've started his Kaiten sooner with Chakra cocoon already prepped at full and ready to go since he knows Lees speed is no joke, Lee's speed in Gates would result in massive damage for him even if Kaiten was imperfect.

Lmao, based off what? You have absolutely no feats suggesting Neji is capable of matching or even keeping up with Lee's speed. The whole point here is, again, the one you completely neglected to address. Naruto's speed alone almost caught Neji without his Rotation being completed. What feats do you have suggesting that Neji would suddenly be able to perceive and counter speeds that make KN0 Naruto look like a cripple? Post them here.

No , but u giving exact calculations is nonsense and that so called borderline teleportation is ntn for prelim Neji to handle physically.

@Ital I didn't give any calculations, I supplied you with an accurate description of what the Manga depicted.

@Bold Again, based off what? Post scans of Neji's speed feats suggesting that he can even remotely keep up with a Gated Lee.

Seriously, get your head out of your ass and start forming arguments around the points that I'm making. Ignoring everything I state and then saying, "Neji can keep up with Lee no probs" isn't an argument. We use feats and manga scans here. Support your argument or GTFO.

 

[BLAZE]

3rd Gate, is approximately 10,576 X faster than Naruto in KN0

You must be registered for see images