[Discussion] Pre ts zoro vs pre ts Luffy

Bogard

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Assuming both are healthy

S1: Zoro will win around high difficulty. Nitoryuu was actually his original style. He fought equally with zombie ryuma in an impressive fight, defeating him in the process. He won't be that much degraded compared to base Luffy and he possess stronger attacks

S2: Depends. Can Luffy use gear second or not? If he can't Zoro will still win because gear3 wasn't really an upgrade at that point. While gaining more power, he was losing in speed. If he were to use gear3 it would be easier for Zoro to dodge his attacks and maybe take advantage of the weakness of his stretching power in the process. He has even a wider arsenal/possibility with 3swords. Not to mention Zoro tanked Oz's attacks which are much stronger, so he shouldn't go down from a single hit if it somehow landed. Ultimately i think Zoro has more chances to win. However if gear second is allowed, Luffy will win

S3: Luffy will likely win with around high difficulty
 
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Bogard

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Luffy wins all 3.

At whiskey Peak Luffy was evenly matching with Zoro who was using all 3 of his swords and this was Luffy without Gears.
You're not talking about the same Zoro. It's oni giri that Luffy matched(with a bazooka), something not nearly as strong as the attacks he developed later. Base Luffy's strongest one hit attack remained bazooka however when Zoro didn't have nearly as strong attacks back then. He developed shishisonson against M1, rashoumon, embima oni giri as well as his other attacks later. He possessed much stronger attacks later on comparable to some of gear3 Luffy's attacks in power(Luffy needed gear3 attacks in enies lobby to break steel for example). Not to mention Enies Lobby Zoro said he was many levels stronger than water7 arc Zoro. Base Luffy couldn't match him in power anymore at that point
 
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TheHokage

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You're not talking about the same Zoro. It's oni giri that Luffy matched(with a bazooka), something not nearly as strong as the attacks he developed later. Base Luffy's strongest one hit attack remained bazooka however when Zoro didn't have nearly as strong attacks back then. He developed shishisonson against M1, rashoumon, embima oni giri as well as his other attacks later. He possessed much stronger attacks later on comparable to some of gear3 Luffy's attacks in power. Not to mention Enies Lobby Zoro said he was many levels stronger than water7 arc Zoro. Base Luffy couldn't match him in power anymore at that point
So? It's not like Luffy's base stat's stayed the same either and just because Zoro has new moves it doesn't mean them attacks are stronger than Luffy's attacks. What we seen from Luffy and Zoro vs Aqua Laguna both of them let out an equally strong attack Zoro was using 3 swords and Luffy was in base mode. It seems your basing who would win purely on strength of attacks it takes more than just powerful moves to win a fight especially in a fight that involves both Luffy and Zoro. Of course I don't think Luffy would win easily but I think ultimately if the two went at it Luffy would come out the victor. Gear 2nd only really increases Luffy's speed and attack power but I believe Luffy has the necessary strength and speed in his base form to keep up with Zoro and damage him.
 

Bogard

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So? It's not like Luffy's base stat's stayed the same either and just because Zoro has new moves it doesn't mean them attacks are stronger than Luffy's attacks. What we seen from Luffy and Zoro vs Aqua Laguna both of them let out an equally strong attack Zoro was using 3 swords and Luffy was in base mode. It seems your basing who would win purely on strength of attacks it takes more than just powerful moves to win a fight especially in a fight that involves both Luffy and Zoro. Of course I don't think Luffy would win easily but I think ultimately if the two went at it Luffy would come out the victor. Gear 2nd only really increases Luffy's speed and attack power but I believe Luffy has the necessary strength and speed in his base form to keep up with Zoro and damage him.
They are comparable in speed, so the winner will be the one with the strongest attacks. Yes Luffy's base stats upgraded i don't deny that, but like i've said, his strongest one hit attack remained bazooka when Zoro had a variant of the oni giri that Luffy matched(embima oni giri), as well as rashomon, shishisonson and his flying slashes that he developed later, so while their base stats likely improved at the same rate, Zoro had stronger attacks. Like i've said, Luffy needed gear 3 attacks to break steel in enies lobby something Alabasta Zoro could do with Shishisonson, so let alone later. His attacks were simply stronger

Not to mention that in terms of endurance, Zoro outclasses Luffy(thriller bark prove that) and he was tanking hits from Oz who has much stronger attack power than gear3 Luffy. The damage output shows the endurance, will and strength Zoro had and it won't be easy for base Luffy to put him down when he could take on much stronger attacks and continuing fighting as if he was healthy
 
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Bogard

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Like he demonstrated that time when he was stuck in a chimney and he needed his sword to get out.

While at the same time Luffy was between two buildings and he just pushed them away.

Yeah I see it now. Zoro is so much stronger.

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Luffy wins all 3, no discussion here.
No i mean like how postskip Luffy couldn't break a fragile rope when he was captured by fishmen
 

Love Cook

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No i mean like how postskip Luffy couldn't break a fragile rope when he was captured by fishmen
Post skip luffy bit through a metal chain, so that means shit.

The rope was just plot device for a nice fight. He also needed to show the citizens of FI that he was on their side.

I gave a perfect example of a measuring in strength at the same moment in time. Another one is the amount of douroki Kaku and Lucci had. Zoro struggled with a guy that had half the power Lucci had.

Luffy is in his own league, Zoro is not doing bad as number 2.
 

Bogard

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Post skip luffy bit through a metal chain, so that means shit.

The rope was just plot device for a nice fight. He also needed to show the citizens of FI that he was on their side.

I gave a perfect example of a measuring in strength at the same moment in time. Another one is the amount of douroki Kaku and Lucci had. Zoro struggled with a guy that had half the power Lucci had.

Luffy is in his own league, Zoro is not doing bad as number 2.
Well considering Zoro's earlier accomplishments(like lifting a building since alabasta) i'd say the chimney thing was a plot device as well. Funny how one can only see plot device from one side. It's by developping gears that Luffy surpassed Zoro's strength. I'd like to make you notice that base Luffy was matched by a blueno who had triple lower the doriki of Zoro/Sanji's opponents
 

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Well considering Zoro's earlier accomplishments(like lifting a building since alabasta) i'd say the chimney thing was a plot device as well. Funny how one can only see plot device from one side. It's by developping gears that Luffy surpassed Zoro's strength. I'd like to make you notice that base Luffy was matched by a blueno who had triple lower the doriki of Zoro/Sanji's opponents
So what ?

That lies within the range of Luffy's potential, that is his weapon.

It's not like he is taking steroids which all of a sudden make it unfair for Zoro. That's like saying: "Yeah but Zoro didn't have three swords until thriller bark again". That's pretty much Zoro's problem and limitation.

Zoro uses three swords and Luffy his fruit to his full extent. Is your argument still holding up if I would say that Blueno would kick Zoro's ass if he only would have 1 sword ?

No, because that doesn't matter, it's unfair to take away a weapon. So just accept that gears Luffy is ahead of Zoro and then we all know the answer to the question in this thread.

Also I came up with multiple arguments where Luffy showed better strength feats at the same point in time as Zoro, you have given no arguments why you think Zoro is stronger than Luffy, in any mode.
 
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