Possible Rinnegan's counters to close-range and long-range Kamui

[KCMNaruto]

Hello guys, I would like to talk about Possible Rinnegan's counters to close-range and long-range Kamui. Please read carefully before posting your post with bashing or negative comment. Here I go:

LONG-RANGE KAMUI :

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3rd Databook scan about Long-range Kamui technique usable by Kakashi:

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^^ As it states long-range Kamui usable by Kakashi works by focusing his eyesight at certain point of space, which cause for special barrier space to appear around the target. The space at the centre of the barrier is disorted and the target inside barrier is drawn completly.

Well, now you may wonder How in the hell this kamui technique can be countered ?, Keywords needed for my explanation are bolded.

1) Focusing, Kakashi has to focus his eyesight at certain point of space being in range of his vision to execute this technique. Focusing is also closely connected to building up enough amount of chakra for that.

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^^ Even if the Kamui technique is executed close to instant...it is NO instant. Also second from bottom on the right picture shows clone transformed into Rasengan to be in range of Space barrier created by Kakashi's Kamui then being drawn in it's center.

2) special barrier space to appear around the target. Yes, it is the most important aspect to possibility of countering Kamui technique. Barrier space as everthing need to be made of chakra to work, and it is needed to drawn you into center of barrier where hole is opened into space.

Rinnegan's counter: Preta Path Technique:

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Actually Preta Path also creates barrier around The Rinnegan user NOT allowing for any chakra based attack to enter it while it absorbs chakra from chakra based attack.

Another possible Rinnegan technique to counter Kamui long-range technique could be Shinra Tensei of Deva path.

Shinra Tensei:

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^^ The only problem with Shinra Tensei being great counter to Kamui is that it would have to be constant Shinra Tensei for some time being. Some kind of Gravity barrier enveloped around Rinnegan user, because if it is not constant Kamui can be used again few times before Shinra Tensei get recharged.

To be honest Rimbo Hengoku technique used by Madara could be great counter to this variation of Kamui as well... but we know close to nothing about principles on which this technique works...

CLOSE-RANGE KAMUI :

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3rd Databook scan about Short-range Kamui technique usable by Obito and Kakashi:

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^^^^ As it states close-range Kamui usable by Kakashi and Obito works as their bodies vanishing through the air as through transcending into space.

Yeah, To be honest it doesn't give us much of information.

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^^ From the manga scans we can basically deduce that close-Range Kamui works on the same principles as long-range Kamui but on smaller distance. I mean space barrier envelops around target with centre of barrier being Obito's or Kakashi's eye which drawn the target inside.

1) special barrier space to appear around the target. Yes, it is the most important aspect to possibility of countering Kamui technique. Barrier space as everthing need to be made of chakra to work, and it is needed to drawn you into center of barrier where hole is opened into space.

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^^ We also know that absorbing others people or items takes more time then absorbing himself...

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^^ Close-Range Kamui technique can be also used for pulling something outside not just inside. The principles still stay same as Space barrier has to be formed around Obito's or Kakashi's eye with centre of this barrier being Obito's or Kakashi's eye which pull something outside from it.

Rinnegan's counter: Preta Path Technique:

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Actually Preta Path also creates barrier around The Rinnegan user NOT allowing for any chakra based attack to enter it while it absorbs chakra from chakra based attack. If Obito appear in front of Rinnegan user then he will enveloped Rinnegan user with Space barrier with his eye being source and center of this barrier but at the same time if Rinnegan wielder uses Preta Path then both of them will be enveloped by chakra absorbing barrier. In other words Chakra needed for Space barrier get absorbed and Obito's technique get canceled unless Obito will absorb Rinnegan user faster before chakra from his space barrier get absorbed fully.

Another possible Rinnegan technique to counter Kamui close-range technique could be Shinra Tensei of Deva path.

Shinra Tensei:

Spoiler

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^^ Obito appearing in front of Nagato while using ability to absorb anyone would had to be solid which make him vunerable to be affected by Shinra Tensei push.

The only left could be Intangibility, abillity allowing Obito to pass through atttacks without bringing any damage to him. However Nothing was stated how it works with using chakra so it is hard to say.

Summary:​

• Both long-range and short-range variations of Kamui technique can be countered by Rinnegan's Preta Path or Shinra Tensei technique with some problems in case of long range Kamui for Shinra Tensei.
• Both close-range and long-range variations of Kamui technique works by enveloping target with space barrier with centre of barrier acting as hole which drawn target inside of pull something outside.
• The moment Preta Path could work on Kamui technique is moment when Kamui creates space barrier around Rinnegan user but before RG user will get drawn inside.
• The reason why Preta Path could work is Space Barrier created by Kamui as every barrier is made of chakra which is needed to keep this technique active. If Chakra get absorbed from it then Kamui technique will get canceled.
• The reason Shinra Tensei can work on close-range variation of Kamui technique is that Obito need to be solid while he drawn something into his eye or pull something outside. Shinra Tenseu push will affect him as he is physcially present.
• It does NOT mean that Rinnegan's user can EASILY counter or That RG user always WIN against Kamui's user... but there is possibility of countering Kamui. Outcome of battle depens mainly on who has supperior reaction time to act faster and anticipate opponent. If Kamui user is fast enough then he win else Rinnegan user can counter.
• There is nothing so far for Obito's ability to send his parts of body to other dimenssion... so no counter of it. We know that Obito can easil switch from absorbing something to being intangible.

Thanks for the reading !

 

[xcoyote]

Kakashi one shots.

 

[VongolaX]

Preta a black hole?

That's laughable

Can preta absorb ct too? :|

 

[miromiro]

Good theory. Preta Path is indeed a good counter, so is Omnyodon. These are about the only "counters" for Kamui up to this point.

 

[Limbo]

Madara solos neg diff.

 

[Draphsin]

Kamui is like FTG

You can't absorb a transportation technique.

Kakashi would kamui around the entire preta barrier.

Obito would just warp them regardless [its a transportation technique, not an attack].

 

[KCMNaruto]

Preta a black hole?

That's laughable

Can preta absorb ct too? :|

It can NOT, but you didn't read my thread.

You do NOT even know how Kamui works really...

It envelops target with SPACE BARRIER. Centre of this barrier is either certain point to which Traget is drawn into or Kamui's user eye itself which can drawn target inside or bring something outside from it.

IT IS NOT AUTOMATIC COUNTER..., but still RG user has chance the moment SPACE BARRIER get formed but before being drawn inside. Even if it is just split of second it still happens, it is just to up to Reaction time of Rinnegan user if he can act fast enough to absorb this barrier and cancel Kamui , push him back or loose by being drawn inside.

 

[Flawž]

Kamui is a black hole.

it cannot be absorbed.

Get this through your thick head.

 

[Aya San]

Madara can since he has secret Rinnegan tech, don't be surprised and call it asspull if it does happen Lol

 

[KCMNaruto]

Kakashi one shots.

Read Summary before posting

Preta a black hole?

That's laughable

Can preta absorb ct too? :|

It can NOT, but you didn't read my thread.

You do NOT even know how Kamui works really...

It envelops target with SPACE BARRIER. Centre of this barrier is either certain point to which Traget is drawn into or Kamui's user eye itself which can drawn target inside or bring something outside from it.

IT IS NOT AUTOMATIC COUNTER..., but still RG user has chance the moment SPACE BARRIER get formed but before being drawn inside. Even if it is just split of second it still happens, it is just to up to Reaction time of Rinnegan user if he can act fast enough to absorb this barrier and cancel Kamui , push him back or loose by being drawn inside.

Read summary before posting

Good theory. Preta Path is indeed a good counter, so is Omnyodon. These are about the only "counters" for Kamui up to this point.

Thank you very much , I hope you will read the summary for this thread

It should make some things clear

Madara solos neg diff.

Ok, but this has nothing with my thread, Read the summary please

Kamui is like FTG

You can't absorb a transportation technique.

Kakashi would kamui around the entire preta barrier.

Obito would just warp them regardless [its a transportation technique, not an attack].

Of course it can NOT, but it CAN absorb Space barrier formed around Target by Kamui user.

Please Read the summary first

Kamui is a black hole.

it cannot be absorbed.

Get this through your thick head.

Read the Summary first before posting

Get this through your thick head

Madara can since he has secret Rinnegan tech, don't be surprised and call it asspull if it does happen Lol

Maybe, but please reffer to my thread and read the Summary I created just moment ago to make it easier for you to catch main points.

 

[2nd hokage]

Well if you need chakra to perform a technique and preta absorbs chakra then logic says preta path wins.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Well if you need chakra to perform a technique and preta absorbs chakra then logic says preta path wins.

Exactly my point. Kamui works on same principle as amaterasu, user had to build up enough amount of chakra in his eye then this chakra in dent towards certain point which is point at which user focuses/lock his eyes on then technique is executed at this point.

It is simple that amaterasu need chakra to be executed so same applies to kamui.
However kamui case is tricky and can esily make you say "no".

why ? because it seems illogical to absorb black hole and I agree with it.
However if someone explore deeply how kamui really get executed then he find out word "space barrier". This barrier is actually kamui itself, drawning something inside centre of barrier where small hole opens is only final aspect of technique.

Now if we agree then keeping in mind that kakashi also needed to build up his chakra to execute kamui question could appear where this chakra built up go ?

The answer: Chakra goes to form in shape of space barrier, so barrier get drained of chakra then barrier will disappear as it would lack fuel/source to make it work and exist.

Now I hope you and more people will better understand my point

 

[Zavage10]

Man ive been saying the same thing for a while. Kamui uses chakra and preta absorbs chakra. Its just that simple.

 

[Shura]

Kamui isn't absorbable. At least Obito's isn't. Shino's bugs absorb and sense Chakra as well and yet they weren't capable of sensing Obito build up Chakra for Kamui, follow him or absorb the Chakra used for Kamui. You can say that Preta Path is superior to Shino's bugs, but the fact that the bugs couldn't sense the Chakra used for Kamui tells us that Kamui is not absorbable.​

 

[Flawž]

Kamui isn't absorbable. At least Obito's isn't. Shino's bugs absorb and sense Chakra as well and yet they weren't capable of sensing Obito build up Chakra for Kamui, follow him or absorb the Chakra used for Kamui. You can say that Preta Path is superior to Shino's bugs, but the fact that the bugs couldn't sense the Chakra used for Kamui tells us that Kamui is not absorbable.​

this is another good example.

It needs chakra build up inside the eye to spawn kamui but once it's spawned, It's not based on chakra anymore. It's a loop hole to the other dimension which isn't physical rendering preta path useless.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Man ive been saying the same thing for a while. Kamui uses chakra and preta absorbs chakra. Its just that simple.

But this is true, although your explanation is too simple and the most of people will deny it.

Kamui itself is not absorpable but chakra filled Space barrier created by it and needed for Kamui technique to works is

Kamui isn't absorbable. At least Obito's isn't. Shino's bugs absorb and sense Chakra as well and yet they weren't capable of sensing Obito build up Chakra for Kamui, follow him or absorb the Chakra used for Kamui. You can say that Preta Path is superior to Shino's bugs, but the fact that the bugs couldn't sense the Chakra used for Kamui tells us that Kamui is not absorbable.​

wrong,

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^^ Shino confirms in this manga page that he is still sucking Obito's chakra, so it is correct with my theory. If Obito just used Kamui and for very short moment is at the stage of puting up space barrier around his himself with centre of the barrier being his eye where he drawn himself into to escape then it is just the last moment when Shino can absorb his chakra.

However now you can ask but if this is true then according to your theory Kamui should get canceled. Yes but only if bugs were able to absorb enough amount of chakra in that short time else it was not enough and he escaped with Kamui still working. That is the same reason why I said Preta Path can also fail if it can't absorb enough amount of chakra from space barrier in that split of second before Rinnegan user get drawn inside.

this is another good example.

It needs chakra build up inside the eye to spawn kamui but once it's spawned, It's not based on chakra anymore. It's a loop hole to the other dimension which isn't physical rendering preta path useless.

I partially agree, loop hole to ther dimenssion which isn't physcial rendering preta path useless is true statement. However you skipped important matter that this loop hole is just centre of the space barrier created by Kamui around the target and so far we know that every barrier need chakra to exist, so if that chakra get drained fast enough then barrier will diasappear cause Kamui technique to get canceled.

Simple as that