Possible Requirements for the Shinsusenjuu, Why Madara can't use it!

[Minator93]

I've seen many people saying that Madara can use Shinsusenjuu because he has Hashirama's Senjutsu, that's however false. I also read threads suggesting that it's not even a summon [understandable] but still out of Madara's league at this point U_U


What SM Hashirama had/did before he summoned ShinsuSenjuu:

1. He already had a bloody hand meaning it could be a summon. [Summons need blood]
2. He had

You must be registered for see links

,

You must be registered for see links

. And most importantly

You must be registered for see links

I've listed those things precisely because Hashirama had all of them when

You must be registered for see links

The name of technique suggests that it might have been a clan tech and hence the requirement of scroll! This could also explain as to why Hashirama himself hasn't summoned the Shinsusenjuu because this time he doesn't have those scrolls!

Madara only has shown a wooden dragon and now has obtained the Senjutsu but he lacks all others. Heck Madara even lacks Chakra matching Hashirama, See what Madara says

You must be registered for see links

which Hashirama said is as big as Kurama smh. So unless Madara actually shows it in the manga we can't say that he can use it.

This is what I think, please share your view

 

[Booker]

I believe Madara is capable of doing it, I just don't think it's fair to use in threads until it's confirmed in manga.

 

[Avery Uchiha]

Eh we won't know until we see.

 

[Steven Segal]

If he has sage mode then definitely he has shishensenjuu U_U

 

[Draphsin]

You're pushing madara's knowledge off to the side & that's why you are wrong.

Madara demonstrated to us how FTW works, that is madara's feat yet hashirama can use it? Why is that? Is it assumed that hashirama's FTW is exactly like madara's or even more complex? Apparently it is, but why is that? Because he can control mokuton?

Well that's just a speculation, there is no confirmation that hashirama used FTW, another great example is the mokuton dragon which was exactly like hashirama's, the only difference is size.

Saying that madara can't use shinsuusenju based on the complexity is laughable, it comes down to his ability to use it physically or power wise. What did hashirama require before he used his jutsu? Sage mode, who has knowledge on the workings of senjutsu, plus the ability to copy & create exactly the same jutsus as base hashirama? Madara does.

Madara can create the statue with the addition of senjutsu, the only difference would be the size, & the complexity of the jutsu isnt even in question.

 

[SanjiNL]

I believe Madara is capable of doing it, I just don't think it's fair to use in threads until it's confirmed in manga.

Agreed.

If he has sage mode then definitely he has shishensenjuu U_U

Having a wind affinity doesn't mean you can use Rasenshuriken.

 

[Minator93]

You're pushing madara's knowledge off to the side & that's why you are wrong.

Madara demonstrated to us how FTW works, that is madara's feat yet hashirama can use it? Why is that? Is it assumed that hashirama's FTW is exactly like madara's or even more complex? Apparently it is, but why is that? Because he can control mokuton?

Well that's just a speculation, there is no confirmation that hashirama used FTW, another great example is the mokuton dragon which was exactly like hashirama's, the only difference is size.

Saying that madara can't use shinsuusenju based on the complexity is laughable, it comes down to his ability to use it physically or power wise. What did hashirama require before he used his jutsu? Sage mode, who has knowledge on the workings of senjutsu, plus the ability to copy & create exactly the same jutsus as base hashirama? Madara does.

Madara can create the statue with the addition of senjutsu, the only difference would be the size, & the complexity of the jutsu isnt even in question.

Actually Tsunade did confirm it U_U

Also what you're saying isn't completely correct.

Minato, Kakashi, Jiraya, Naruto and Konohamru can use Rasengan but we know that Naruto's Rasengan is on a different level than others. Kakashi can use a Rasengan with 1 hand but he can't spam it. Odama rasengan is out of question for them. [Jiraya needs SM]. FRS is unique to Naruto only.

Same for Hashirama and others like Obito,Madara,Danzou,Oro,Yamato who have Mokuton. Granted Madara is closer than others but he hasn't shown Hashirama level Wooden Dragon, Wooden Golem.

Shinsusenjuu is prolly the pinnacle of Mokuton and it takes a lot from Hashirama to pull it off and as said in the thread there could be requirements to do so [Why rule them out?] I don't think Madara can do it, unless he shows it he can't U_U

 

[Ahmed1993]

He will use it , just you wait

 

[The Sach]

I pretty much agree.U_U

 

[RikudouMadara]

Imho.....I feel that this is like saying if a person who is not an Uchiha has the sharingan they can't copy techniques. But Kakashi can.....just saying....this is what it feels like to me.

 

[Draphsin]

Actually Tsunade did confirm it U_U

Show me feats of hashi's FTW being used like madara used it. You are going off hype that he did use it but madara has the feat.

Kishi gave us the requirements through the manga of how hashi created it. Madara was there to copy it, there was no prep needed & no proof that the jutsu is any different from FTW or mokuton dragon other than the size. Madara's physical limitation is that he doesnt have the amount of senjutsu that hashirama can use but he can use it because those were the requirements given to us. SM + Mokuton = shinsuusenju, this is a fact. Madara knows this, saying he can't use it is going against this fact & adding in your own speculation.

Also what you're saying isn't completely correct.

Minato, Kakashi, Jiraya, Naruto and Konohamru can use Rasengan but we know that Naruto's Rasengan is on a different level than others. Kakashi can use a Rasengan with 1 hand but he can't spam it. Odama rasengan is out of question for them. [Jiraya needs SM]. FRS is unique to Naruto only.

Same for Hashirama and others like Obito,Madara,Danzou,Oro,Yamato who have Mokuton. Granted Madara is closer than others but he hasn't shown Hashirama level Wooden Dragon, Wooden Golem.

Shinsusenjuu is prolly the pinnacle of Mokuton and it takes a lot from Hashirama to pull it off and as said in the thread there could be requirements to do so [Why rule them out?] I don't think Madara can do it, unless he shows it he can't U_U

@Bold/Underlined: Level is his physical limitation that can't be helped, it does not change the fact that madara can create a smaller shinsuusenju, not on hashirama's level but I already know that.


Nothing else needs to be said about this quote, if you think of this as a scale issue then you will not see my point. u_u

 

[Minator93]

Show me feats of hashi's FTW being used like madara used it. You are going off hype that he did use it but madara has the feat.

Kishi gave us the requirements through the manga of how hashi created it. Madara was there to copy it, there was no prep needed & no proof that the jutsu is any different from FTW or mokuton dragon other than the size. Madara's physical limitation is that he doesnt have the amount of senjutsu that hashirama can use but he can use it because those were the requirements given to us. SM + Mokuton = shinsuusenju, this is a fact. Madara knows this, saying he can't use it is going against this fact & adding in your own speculation.



@Bold/Underlined: Level is his physical limitation that can't be helped, it does not change the fact that madara can create a smaller shinsuusenju, not on hashirama's level but I already know that.


Nothing else needs to be said about this quote, if you think of this as a scale issue then you will not see my point. u_u

Show me feats of Madara using Shinsusenjuu, two can play the game U_U

Kishi never gave a requirements otherwise we wouldn't have this debate in the first place. I picked up all the clues required/ showed by Hashirama before he used Shinsusenjuu and compered with Madara and Madara actually lacks those things U_U

And of you read mt post then you'd know that I wasn't talking about scale but Physical Limitations and skill U_U

 

[Draphsin]

Show me feats of Madara using Shinsusenjuu, two can play the game U_U

You obviously do not understand how to debate do you?

Kishi never gave a requirements otherwise we wouldn't have this debate in the first place. I picked up all the clues required/ showed by Hashirama before he used Shinsusenjuu and compered with Madara and Madara actually lacks those things U_U

And of you read mt post then you'd know that I wasn't talking about scale but Physical Limitations and skill U_U

@Bold[Translation]: "I added in my own speculation" You are adding thing's that arent there. SM, & mokuton plus the knowledge on how it is created is all that's needed, the limitation for madara is the size, he can use it but the size will be smaller as I have stated multiple times.

You know what, I don't have time for this, ill just remember that minator believes otherwise & leave it at that.

 

[Minator93]

You obviously do not understand how to debate do you?

@Bold[Translation]: "I added in my own speculation" You are adding thing's that arent there. SM, & mokuton plus the knowledge on how it is created is all that's needed, the limitation for madara is the size, he can use it but the size will be smaller as I have stated multiple times.

You know what, I don't have time for this, ill just remember that minator believes otherwise & leave it at that.

Same here, I'll also remember what Draph thinks & stop it here.

 

[-Sky-]

He can use it.

 

[Lightbringer]

When Hashirama summoned Shisuusenju, he didn't open the scroll, only used a handseal and SM mode. I don't think the scroll is necessary.