Plot hole in Genjutsu

[mrcrazyboyravi]

Im sorry plot the plot hole is in your brain! seriously U_U

I am also sorry that your Sharingan craze couldn't let you see the truth. despite showing all those facts and manga pages you only stuck with precognition,old ideas.

 

[Ovan]

Look like your question has been answered.

 

[shelke]

Shikamaru could move his head as well. Not sure how is this a plot hole as it was shown in part one to be this way.

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

Shikamaru could move his head as well. Not sure how is this a plot hole as it was shown in part one to be this way.

I wrote what I saw in that manga page. Not sure about what is real and what is false. But I do believe there were plot holes and many things wrong in that chapter.

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

Look like your question has been answered.

there wasn't a single convincing answers. Every body were saying sharingan can see through illusion without reading my post at all.

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

I'd like to offer my opinion on the subject of sharigan and genjutsu. The sharingan is able to both cast illusions and see through them. There is no evidence of any instant dispelling of illusions, because if that was the case, no sharingan user would ever be caught in an illusion. However, Itachi was caught in an illusion by Kurenai, Sasuke, and Kabuto. Even Kakashi and Obito were caught in illusions cast by the other. This is to show that it is possible for a sharingan user to be caught in an illusion. Yet, Itachi was able to use an illusion counter on Kurenai, see through Sasuke's illusion, and with Sasuke's assistance break Kabuto's illusion. Let us focus on the latter two (Itachi vs Sasuke illusion, Itachi vs Kabuto,) as well as Obito vs Kakashi.

In the above three genjutsu fights one thing was made very apparent: people with the sharingan can be caught in an illusion and still perceive the real world. Sasuke and Itachi did not move from their initial spots from the time their illusion duel started, and instead layered illusions upon each other. Obito and Kakashi were also self aware of the illusions that they were casting on each other, with Kakashi finally calling an end to them (seeing as it was pointless.) From this we can see that, despite being aware of the illusion itself, they are able to see through it and are aware of their positions in the real world. With that said, while it is certain that Sasuke and Itachi were caught in the illusion of Kabuto and saw what he intended them to see, they could still recognize it as an illusion and were able to see the real world. This is an ability of the sharingan as proven above. There were many different kinds of illusions shown in the series, this one being a movement restricting, or shibari genjutsu. Even if they can SEE through it, the shibari is still in effect unless the illusion is actually broken (Kurenai used a similar genjutsu on Itachi and Kisame, and since Itachi countered it by putting her in the illusion since she was right there, she herself had to break the illusion to be able to move again.)

Itachi and Sasuke, being able to see each other in the real world while at the same time being able to see the visual aspect of the genjutsu, simply added another layer to the already in place illusions (it was explained above that they could do this) thus breaking it. I hope that this helps others in their replies.

 

[the last shinobi]

look at the pages clearly. When both of uchihaa brothers were in Genjutsu they were seeing Human skull in the ground and snakes wrapping around them. They were seeing a completely different Pictures but some how despite being in Genjutsu , Itachi told sasuke to look in his eye . Lol and then cast a genjutsu to each other.

how da fuk was that possible

the data book says that the sharingan sees through ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu ..you just saw two of them do that

 

[KisuneUchiha]

some genjutsu aren't like Tsukuyomi where you are in another world so to speak.. some are like the one Orochimaru caught Sasuke and Sakura in in the Forest of Death . The genjutsu paralyzed them with fear , but Sasuke fought through it. Its a feeling or thought that grabs you .

That was a different move, that was a move called Killing Intent, or Murderous Intentions

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

I'd like to offer my opinion on the subject of sharigan and genjutsu. The sharingan is able to both cast illusions and see through them. There is no evidence of any instant dispelling of illusions, because if that was the case, no sharingan user would ever be caught in an illusion. However, Itachi was caught in an illusion by Kurenai, Sasuke, and Kabuto. Even Kakashi and Obito were caught in illusions cast by the other. This is to show that it is possible for a sharingan user to be caught in an illusion. Yet, Itachi was able to use an illusion counter on Kurenai, see through Sasuke's illusion, and with Sasuke's assistance break Kabuto's illusion. Let us focus on the latter two (Itachi vs Sasuke illusion, Itachi vs Kabuto,) as well as Obito vs Kakashi.

In the above three genjutsu fights one thing was made very apparent: people with the sharingan can be caught in an illusion and still perceive the real world. Sasuke and Itachi did not move from their initial spots from the time their illusion duel started, and instead layered illusions upon each other. Obito and Kakashi were also self aware of the illusions that they were casting on each other, with Kakashi finally calling an end to them (seeing as it was pointless.) From this we can see that, despite being aware of the illusion itself, they are able to see through it and are aware of their positions in the real world. With that said, while it is certain that Sasuke and Itachi were caught in the illusion of Kabuto and saw what he intended them to see, they could still recognize it as an illusion and were able to see the real world. This is an ability of the sharingan as proven above. There were many different kinds of illusions shown in the series, this one being a movement restricting, or shibari genjutsu. Even if they can SEE through it, the shibari is still in effect unless the illusion is actually broken (Kurenai used a similar genjutsu on Itachi and Kisame, and since Itachi countered it by putting her in the illusion since she was right there, she herself had to break the illusion to be able to move again.)

Itachi and Sasuke, being able to see each other in the real world while at the same time being able to see the visual aspect of the genjutsu, simply added another layer to the already in place illusions (it was explained above that they could do this) thus breaking it. I hope that this helps others in their replies.

good explanation

but I said that If itachi and sasuke had casted Genjutsu layer upon themselves and negated the influence of kabuto's genjutsu ,then it would had been fine.

Instead of that , they casted genjutsu layer upon each other. This was very illogical because they can't see each other's real eyes and position as they were still seeing Kabuto's genjutsu world.

so my point is If they can use jutsu and see clearly due to sharingan despite being in Genjutsu then why Didn't they simply summon susanoo and start to attack kabuto.
why did they had to risk their life using Genjutsu to each other first, Then break the Genjutsu and only then summon susanoo at the last moment.

clearly a lot of flaws in that chapter.

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

the data book says that the sharingan sees through ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu ..you just saw two of them do that

Good explanation sherlock

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[mrcrazyboyravi]

no clear explaining what so ever. so its the proof that it was one of the biggest plot hole

 

[xxSAGExx]

Remember the time Jiraya used Pa and Ma's sound genjutsu,,,Pain god paralized,unable to move but he could speak

Pein was talking from within the genjutsu but his body couldn't move an inch so that's not the same case. Frog genjutsu paralyzes the mind and body

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. Same should be for Sasuke and Itachi being in a sound genjutsu that paralyze them since genjutsu affects the brain and their eyes are useless against something that effects their ears so it is a plot hole.

lol its a plothole because you dont understand how it works? seems legit. lemme just tell you one thing. Genjutsu is illusions. be it sound genjutsu or visual, its still an illusion. now with that being said....Sharingan....it pwns all genjutsu. so normal genjutsu rules most likely dont apply. be it sound genjutsu or not. point being its a genjutsu which gets pwned by uchiha

You would be right if you were talking about visual genjutsus, Sharingan is useless against something that affects their ears. Sharingan is totally useless against genjutsu that affects any senses besides sight. The sound genjutsu Kabuto used paralyzes the body, case close but plot hole went around that. Not only did Tayuya's genjutsu completely paralyzed her opponents, Kabuto increased it's power further with his SM. Why couldn't Shikamaru who broke out of Kabuto's genjutsu not bite his lip like Kurenai? He had to break his finger via shadow possession. Sasuke and Itachi using genjutsu isn't that issue, the fact that they can turn their heads and completely go against what the jutsu is made for even thought it's boosted via SM is what makes it plot hole.

That's ok but
nagato couldn't use any jutsu when he was in sound Genjutsu and all of his 6 path were idle. that's why Jiraiya could easily destroy 3 paths . At that time jiraiya didn't knew there were 3 other path of pain so He released the Genjutsu. But as soon as genjutsu was realeased Nagato was finally able to use Jutsu and killed Jiraiya.

but in case of Uchihaa brother vs Kabuto

Both Uchihaa brothers are also seeing a completely different world when they were in genjutsu so how did Itachi and Sasuke cast jutsus to each other by looking straight into each others eyes ?

so here are 2 flaws.
1.Both ucihaa brother saw each other's exact position despite being in a genjutsu and seeing another world
2.Both Uchihaa brothers could cast a Jutsu despite being in Genjutsu.

Only the 3 Peins that fought Jiraiya were caught in the Genjutsu, the others were getting out of that room and travelling to where Jiraiya was. Jiraiya told Pein his nerve and mind were paralyzed so they couldn't move their body an inch

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.

The Sasuke and Itachi thing was plot and I mentioned it before but fanboys argued it with no facts at all. First, The Sharingan is useless against genjutsus that affects any other senses besides sight. Tayuya's genjutsu paralyzes people, Shikamaru who escaped Kabuto's genjutsu in the chunin exams couldn't move an inch and had to cause himself pain by using his shadow to break his finger. He couldn't even bite his lip like Kurenai nor could he talk out loud. Not only that but Kabuto increase the Genjutsu power with his SM. It's completely plot.

Same for Izanami and Izanagi. Obito stated you need both Senju and Uchiha DNA yet Itachi tells us many Uchihas would abuse Izanagi so Izanami was created as it's pair. Where did these Uchihas get Senju DNA which was said to be hard to infuse, hence Orochimaru's experiments. Oro was using Hashirama's DNA in his experiments but it's only Hashirama's DNA that they all talk about infusing into them. Itachi doesn't has Senju DNA and if Izanami is a pair to the Izanagi then how was it made to be called izanami's pair or even be at the level of Izanagi? Lots of plot holes until Kishi better explains

 

[Owarij]

It was just a paralysis genjutsu. Only meant to make movement harder. There are different types. Some genjutsu put you in a complete comatose state (those are the ones you can't use jutsu in, we've seen Itachi put naruto in these a few times) . There are those that don't restrict movement, but alters what the victim perceives through their optic nerves.

This isn't a plot hole

You would be right if you were talking about visual genjutsus, Sharingan is useless against something that affects their ears. Sharingan is totally useless against genjutsu that affects any senses besides sight

Right..You obviously know nothing about genjutsu

 

[xxSAGExx]

It was just a paralysis genjutsu. Only meant to make movement harder. There are different types. Some genjutsu put you in a complete comatose state (those are the ones you can't use jutsu in, we've seen Itachi put naruto in these a few times) . There are those that don't restrict movement, but alters what the victim perceives through their optic nerves.

This isn't a plot hole






Right..You obviously know nothing about genjutsu

Except Tayuya's make it so you can't move at all as Shikamaru said he couldn't move

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and Tayuya said it halts the move and restrains them

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. Kabuto's should be even stronger due to the senjutsu of SM.

As for not knowing about genjutsu, do you? How what I said was wrong? How is the sharingan going to help with something that doesn't affect the eyes? Sharingan works with sound, smell, taste and touch now? Yes the genjutsu affects the victims brain via caster's chakra but how they fall under the genjutsu is what has to do with it for the Sharingan to be of use since it's a tool.

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

I would like to say again that I believe those with the sharingan can see through illusions while also seeing them. That is to say, despite being in an illusion, they are able to simultaneously perceive the real world (Kakashi and Obito casting illusions on each other, and knowing that they are casting them on each other, while staring at each other from across the room.)

The case with Itachi and Sasuke is very similar. Itachi and Sasuke could see WHAT the illusion being shown to them was (shown when they viewed themselves being bound by snakes) yet at the same time they could see THROUGH the illusion at the real world, allowing them to see each other and talk to each other. Since we are discussing Tayuya's genjutsu, it is a good start to look at Shikamaru's situation.

Shikamaru heard the flute's music and was caught in the illusion. Because of the nature of the illusion Shikamaru was both shown an illusionary place, as well as paralyzed. However, Shikamaru does not have a sharingan, so it is understandable why he would continuously see the illusion. Itachi and Sasuke on the other hand have the sharingan, which is expressly said to not break, but SEE through illusions. So while they may still be in the illusion and suffer the secondary effect of paralysis, they are able to see the illusion the actual world around them. Two overlapping worlds, so to speak. With that said, since they could see the real world as well, they could see each others eyes. The illusion was not broken because it was auditory, so the paralysis effect was still ongoing, but the visual aspect of the illusion was seen through. Hence, they cast illusions on each other (by this point Kabuto was preparing to use the white snake form of his navel, and the Tayuya genjutsu was not being maintained) to override the lingering genjutsu effect on each other (perhaps it would not have been possible if Kabuto kept casting the illusion as opposed to switching to the white snake.) Upon casting the illusion on each other, they changed the initial illusion cast by Kabuto into an illusion cast, and therefore controlled by themselves. From there it was a simple matter of ending their own illusion, which is possible for anyone.

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

Pein was talking from within the genjutsu but his body couldn't move an inch so that's not the same case. Frog genjutsu paralyzes the mind and body

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. Same should be for Sasuke and Itachi being in a sound genjutsu that paralyze them since genjutsu affects the brain and their eyes are useless against something that effects their ears so it is a plot hole.



You would be right if you were talking about visual genjutsus, Sharingan is useless against something that affects their ears. Sharingan is totally useless against genjutsu that affects any senses besides sight. The sound genjutsu Kabuto used paralyzes the body, case close but plot hole went around that. Not only did Tayuya's genjutsu completely paralyzed her opponents, Kabuto increased it's power further with his SM. Why couldn't Shikamaru who broke out of Kabuto's genjutsu not bite his lip like Kurenai? He had to break his finger via shadow possession. Sasuke and Itachi using genjutsu isn't that issue, the fact that they can turn their heads and completely go against what the jutsu is made for even thought it's boosted via SM is what makes it plot hole.



Only the 3 Peins that fought Jiraiya were caught in the Genjutsu, the others were getting out of that room and travelling to where Jiraiya was. Jiraiya told Pein his nerve and mind were paralyzed so they couldn't move their body an inch

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.

The Sasuke and Itachi thing was plot and I mentioned it before but fanboys argued it with no facts at all. First, The Sharingan is useless against genjutsus that affects any other senses besides sight. Tayuya's genjutsu paralyzes people, Shikamaru who escaped Kabuto's genjutsu in the chunin exams couldn't move an inch and had to cause himself pain by using his shadow to break his finger. He couldn't even bite his lip like Kurenai nor could he talk out loud. Not only that but Kabuto increase the Genjutsu power with his SM. It's completely plot.

Same for Izanami and Izanagi. Obito stated you need both Senju and Uchiha DNA yet Itachi tells us many Uchihas would abuse Izanagi so Izanami was created as it's pair. Where did these Uchihas get Senju DNA which was said to be hard to infuse, hence Orochimaru's experiments. Oro was using Hashirama's DNA in his experiments but it's only Hashirama's DNA that they all talk about infusing into them. Itachi doesn't has Senju DNA and if Izanami is a pair to the Izanagi then how was it made to be called izanami's pair or even be at the level of Izanagi? Lots of plot holes until Kishi better explains

Lol u need to read the managa again. Every path of pain was affected because Nagato was directly linked with all 6 path of pain so if even 1 path of pain is in Genjutsu then it directly connecte nagato with the genjutsu thus it disables all 6 path.

 

[mrcrazyboyravi]

It was just a paralysis genjutsu. Only meant to make movement harder. There are different types. Some genjutsu put you in a complete comatose state (those are the ones you can't use jutsu in, we've seen Itachi put naruto in these a few times) . There are those that don't restrict movement, but alters what the victim perceives through their optic nerves.

This isn't a plot hole






Right..You obviously know nothing about genjutsu

Owariz I request you to see the page once again. It wasn't just paralyzing genjutsu but they were also seeing false images and pictures.

 

[Minator93]

Technically speaking to break a Genjutsu one needs to stop the chakra flow in their body and disrupt it by themselves or by an external source. Also you can speak to yourself or think but you're trapped in an illusion just like Kabuto was in Izanami blabbing shit and doing weird jutsus inside the loop.

Now some genjutsus are paralyzing genjutsus, just like the one Oro cast on Sasuke in part 1, and Sasuke broke it by stabbing his thigh, for this type of genjutsu you can think, talk, move physically whilst under the effect of genjutsu.

Also it's been proven that a Genjutsu can counter another Genjustu [Kakashi vs Obito, Itachi vs Kurenai] where you basically fight the effect of the illusion cast by a genjutsu with the effect of another illusion cast by a different source or yourself [if a genjutsu is weak you can do it yourself, however if not you need an external source] and this is what happened. Itachi and Sasuke acted as external source that cast the illusion on each-other to break the illusion cast by Kabuto.

This is how I think it went down

 

[iSpeak]

what kind of sharingan seeing through Genjutsu do you guys mean??

all i can see is that both uchihaa brothers see each other wrapped around by snakes and standing in the land full of human skulls

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just explain me what they were seeing without bashing me

That is not what they were seeing, that is what the Genjutsu was showing. It is just showing the readers what the illusion was, similar to the Kakashi clone vs Itachi fight.

They have the ability to see through the Genjutsu but it doesnt automatically negate the paralysis effect. That is why they still needed to break the Genjutsu.

 

[Meowazziel]

Shikamaru could still see (not really well, but he could still see) and talk while in Tayuya's genjutsu.
He was just rooted to the spot by the genjutsu.

Not all genjutsus work the same.

Next to this, Uchiha have a sharingan, which can see through genjutsu, so maybe they were taking the full effects (like paralyzing), yet could see through it and break each other out of it with a counter genjutsu.