Please stop SOPA

Cruciatus

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Nope , I support them by going to their concerts & buying merch.#GG

lol...Please, don't act so entitled. Just because the music is out there for free doesn't mean you should get it for free. You don't make up for it just by buying band merch, you still stole their music. . .
 

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lol...Please, don't act so entitled. Just because the music is out there for free doesn't mean you should get it for free. You don't make up for it just by buying band merch, you still stole their music. . .

I listen to a lot of music & i can't be buying their albums from left to right , sometimes people can't afford shit , they just do what they gotta do .
 

Cruciatus

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I listen to a lot of music & i can't be buying their albums from left to right , sometimes people can't afford shit , they just do what they gotta do .

You know what people did back when there was no internet and they couldn't afford to buy tapes? They just went without it. Like I said, don't act so entitled. Music can in fact be a privilege.
 

EnDash

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lol...Please, don't act so entitled. Just because the music is out there for free doesn't mean you should get it for free. You don't make up for it just by buying band merch, you still stole their music. . .

if a product doesn't sell it's the problem of the producer/publisher, not the consumer. blaming the consumer because no one buys music isn't only wrong it will defenitly not lead to consumers buying more.

humble indie bundles are making > 1 million dollars based off of "pay what you want" policy, every person can pay 1 cent and get a package of games and yet the humble indie bundle V made 5 million dollars. why can't the music industry do something like this?

it's not that people are not willing to pay for music or movies, it's that it's not worth for them to pay. pirated movies and music offer more then 0$ price tag, they offer convience. you can download a movie at any time of the day, not just at opening hours, and usually you will have a blu ray definition movie in a couple of hours including subtitles. or if you know a streaming site watch it immediatly with minutes of waiting. i can assure you the movie and music industry has the money to spend on putting servers and websites and offering the products as a DRM free download for 10 bucks that will be lighting fast and have better quality. they don't do it because they are stuck in the past and build policies based on how people bought music and movies 15 years ago.

mark my words, sopa is going to bring more people into pirating.
 

Cruciatus

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if a product doesn't sell it's the problem of the producer/publisher, not the consumer. blaming the consumer because no one buys music isn't only wrong it will defenitly not lead to consumers buying more.

humble indie bundles are making > 1 million dollars based off of "pay what you want" policy, every person can pay 1 cent and get a package of games and yet the humble indie bundle V made 5 million dollars. why can't the music industry do something like this?

it's not that people are not willing to pay for music or movies, it's that it's not worth for them to pay. pirated movies and music offer more then 0$ price tag, they offer convience. you can download a movie at any time of the day, not just at opening hours, and usually you will have a blu ray definition movie in a couple of hours including subtitles. or if you know a streaming site watch it immediatly with minutes of waiting. i can assure you the movie and music industry has the money to spend on putting servers and websites and offering the products as a DRM free download for 10 bucks that will be lighting fast and have better quality. they don't do it because they are stuck in the past and build policies based on how people bought music and movies 15 years ago.

mark my words, sopa is going to bring more people into pirating.

Haha, again with the entitlement. You think everything is made for your convenience? I'm sorry it troubles you to drive to the store.
 
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EnDash

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Haha, again with the entitlement. You think every thing is made for your convenience? I'm sorry it troubles you to drive to the store.

you should be sorry, or rather the store should be sorry. they are losing money not me lol
and things should be made as conveinent as possible because you win points for that. every product is subconciously rated by the consumer and convience is a very big part of that.

i have proof of that, i have 240 games on my steam account, i spent 2000 dollars in 6 years on my steam account. in those 6 years i bought a total amount of 15 retail boxed games. if the choice is between driving to the store or clicking some buttons then for the average consumer the choice is obvious, and thats why retail is losing.
 

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you should be sorry, or rather the store should be sorry. they are losing money not me lol
and things should be made as conveinent as possible because you win points for that. every product is subconciously rated by the consumer and convience is a very big part of that.

i have proof of that, i have 240 games on my steam account, i spent 2000 dollars in 6 years on my steam account. in those 6 years i bought a total amount of 15 retail boxed games. if the choice is between driving to the store or clicking some buttons then for the average consumer the choice is obvious, and thats why retail is losing.

There's a difference between convenience and laziness. It seems my generation doesn't appreciate having to work for something you want, because you can just get it online for free. God forbid you have to actually buy it, which-gasp-includes a trip to the store. C'est la vie.
 

Sabuto Hayashi

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I honestly don't think we have to worry about SOPA.

They can try as hard as they like to stop piracy, but the Internet is always going to find a way around it. They tried to kill piracy by banning access to a few major torrent sites here in the UK, but there's still loads more available to download from. It's more of an inconvenience than putting a stop to it.

In the end, it'll just be a waste of the government's time and money. The only way they can stop piracy for sure is if they shut off the entire Internet.
 

EnDash

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There's a difference between convenience and laziness. It seems my generation doesn't appreciate having to work for something you want, because you can just get it online for free. God forbid you have to actually buy it, which-gasp-includes a trip to the store. C'est la vie.

you can either try and shut down the internet and force people to go to the store. which will lead to the fall of the music and movies industry cause people won't do it. or adapt to the new age and reap the profits.

yes, this new generations is lazy, we don't want to go get up from our asses and go for a 5 minute trip to the nearest store. this is your new consumers, this is the new generations that the music and movies industry targets. and it's doing a horrible job at convincing them to buy their products.

wer are lazy mother****ers who want to work as less as possible and get the most we can. and if you don't adapt to those bastard's needs you will be unable to sell enough to profit. didn't that kim dotcom guy made a fortune out of megavideo and megaupload premium membership? he realised that by catering to the laziness of this generation he can make a fortune. the music industry is just full of imbeciles if they can't realise that.
 

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you can either try and shut down the internet and force people to go to the store. which will lead to the fall of the music and movies industry cause people won't do it. or adapt to the new age and reap the profits.

yes, this new generations is lazy, we don't want to go get up from our asses and go for a 5 minute trip to the nearest store. this is your new consumers, this is the new generations that the music and movies industry targets. and it's doing a horrible job at convincing them to buy their products.

wer are lazy mother****ers who want to work as less as possible and get the most we can. and if you don't adapt to those bastard's needs you will be unable to sell enough to profit. didn't that kim dotcom guy made a fortune out of megavideo and megaupload premium membership? he realised that by catering to the laziness of this generation he can make a fortune. the music industry is just full of imbeciles if they can't realise that.

Even a lazy person should be able to realize how hard musicians work to bring their fans new albums. You disregard all of the band's effort when you pirate their music. Did it never occur to you that maybe they would like to be lazy, too? But instead they get in a studio every day and record songs so they can keep providing their fans with new material.

Just because free music is out there doesn't mean you should use it. If people want the music that goddam badly, then they should go and get it. The music industry shouldn't have to encourage laziness.
 
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EnDash

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Even a lazy person should be able to realize how hard musicians work to bring their fan's new albums. You disregard all of the band's effort when you pirate their music. Did it never occur to you that maybe they would like to be lazy, too? But instead they get in a studio every day and record songs so they can keep providing their fans with new material.

Just because free music is out there doesn't mean you should use it. If people want the music that goddam badly, then they should go and get it. The music industry shouldn't have to encourage laziness.

if thats what the music industry thinks. then it will surely go bankrupt.

it's not that there is not solution but to take down pirate sites. there is a very obvious solution, offer a better service. netflix is offering archives of movies and tv shows for a monthly price and it is still here, so it must make a profit. a band can put up a site, pay for servers and offer us DRM free songs for a few dollars each. maybe do a weekly sale where they offer 2 chosen songs at a discount. then an event every 6 months where they offer all their music for a 60% - 75% of the original price of the entire collection. they will make a pretty decent profit and we get the convience(lazzines) we want.

bands will go bankrupt and break because they go against their consumers. they would rather lose costumers then adapt to their demands.
 

-Tremendous-

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Meh just sign the pettion and stop arguing guys ._. i just did....
 

YowYan

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lol...Please, don't act so entitled. Just because the music is out there for free doesn't mean you should get it for free. You don't make up for it just by buying band merch, you still stole their music. . .

Correction: We just copy their music.
And the issue you're discussing is commonly used by the authorities to provoke the debate of weather or not to monitor internet usage aka more government spionage and restrictions.
 

Anorien16

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LoL let them try the hackers and pirates love a challenge ....
 

Aim64C

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Haha, again with the entitlement. You think everything is made for your convenience? I'm sorry it troubles you to drive to the store.

lol...Please, don't act so entitled. Just because the music is out there for free doesn't mean you should get it for free. You don't make up for it just by buying band merch, you still stole their music. . .

This is a classic fallacy within the internet age - the idea that something can be 'stolen' - which implies a loss of product.

Digital media cannot be stolen. Even the argument that every unlicensed, unauthorized user of digital media represents a lost sale (or 'stolen' profit) is tentative, at best. Countless studies have been done that show the overwhelming majority (some 80% or higher) of all unauthorized/unlicensed users would not have purchased the material - even if they had the money.

With those same studies - a number also suggest that those who do buy the digital media do so by sacrificing the purchasing of labeled apparel, downloadable content, etc. Thus - it suggests that gamers often spend as much of their discretionary income as they physically can on games - and there is not some wealth of money waiting to be extracted.... if only people couldn't illegally download.

About the best argument that can be made is that license-key generators are illegal because they allow one to acquire a finite resource owned and controlled by an entity/individual (since there are only so many valid license keys and in this day and age they are supposed to be unique or otherwise tied to an account). Thus - using one of those could realistically be said to equate to theft of a 'physical' resource.

Which means most of the media 'hacked' to work without license key authentication would be unaffected.

Don't upload or download illegal stuff and you don't have to worry about sopa

The problem with SOPA is that it's written by people who do not understand the Internet or what it's become. They side with lobbyists who tell them how to write portions of the bill and then stitch it all together, having little idea what it's actually going to do.



"2. Some don’t care to educate themselves.

A few are, frankly, *******s about it. Like Iowa Representative Steve King, who had this to say during a debate over SOPA:

You must be registered for see images


Or North Carolina Representative Mel Watts, who opened his defense of SOPA by stating “I’m not a nerd,” then went on to dismiss the notion that having a strong understanding of technology is necessary to comprehend the bill.

Or California Representative Maxine Waters, who told the Chairman to use his gavel a little more during the debate over SOPA to move things along quicker, because all this talk over legislation that will have a massive impact on all of our daily lives was really just wasted time.

There are plenty of Congressmen and women who oppose SOPA and Protect IP. It’s the ones who just don’t give a shit about the fact that they’re making a decision that will hugely impact us all in ways they can’t begin to understand that we need to worry about.
"

It would be a laughing matter if this were a comedy series.



The law doesn't stop piracy.

All it does is allow the blocking of DNS - which can be easily bypassed by the script-kiddie underhive.... by using VPNs... and by using foreign servers.

Basically - if you're an average person trying to use the internet for the exchange of ideas and information - any one of those ideas can be used to shut down entire sites because someone posted a picture of Tinkerbelle.

While these all discuss older versions of the law - its fundamental problems still exist. Blocking DNS doesn't really have much impact on those who are used to taking 'the road less travelled' and working with torrent files and discrete networking concepts. It just gets in the way of people who do things they way they are supposed to be done.
 

Souji

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Ummm... It's simple. You buy a product, the company gets the profits. You don't buy it, they don't make a profit; unless they manage to sell that product, they lost their investment in it. Digital media is no different.
 

Aim64C

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Ummm... It's simple. You buy a product, the company gets the profits. You don't buy it, they don't make a profit; unless they manage to sell that product, they lost their investment in it. Digital media is no different.

It's completely different.

Digital media development is a sunk cost. Whether you sell 50 copies or 50 million copies - the cost of development is the same (unless you're still in the stone age and selling things on physical media - then it occupies about 30% of the retail value... and that isn't your cost of development - that is your per-unit retail cost that is decided largely upon your confidence in market performance, as the per-unit costs for producing 10 thousand CDs is higher than the per-unit for 100 thousand CDs).

Take "Project Phoenix" launched by MechWarrior Online. The cost to develop the artwork and any specialized code has already been absorbed by the company. That is why they package all of the 'good stuff' with the $80 package and try to argue that it's a $200+ value. The company 'loses' only if you decide to not purchase any package, or if you purchase anything other than the top-tier $80 package.

The cost of the program will not change for them. Whether everyone buys the $20 package or the $80 - it doesn't matter.

Which is why the 'product' and service received by purchasing the most expensive bracket is at such a greater ratio. It's to get you to buy the larger bracket - because it doesn't really cost them anything to give you more.

The cost of developing the game is set and paid up-front. You cannot 'steal' from them - as they lose no product and are afforded no greater cost. Every sale represents an offset (and eventual profit) for the cost of development.

This is why large game publishers have been trying to shut down the second-hand game market for a long time. They make no money if you buy a used game for $20 at GameStop. Of course - they already made their money off of every copy you see in the store (as the stores purchased those copies and are now trying to recover their costs at a profit).

Which is why digital distribution has become so popular. They can charge the MSRP that stores can afford to lower their prices to without having to pay for packaging, shipping, and stocking at 'sunk' costs of server operation (the servers cost about the same to run regardless of how much downloading is done). These fees can go almost directly to the publisher at a much better revenue margin than with any other distribution medium.

Now - from a moral/ethical standpoint - digital media piracy is 'stealing.'

From a realistic standpoint, however - piracy on the whole does not cost companies money, as there was none to be made there, to begin with. Because no physical material has been stolen that must be replaced - it cannot be said that property was actually lost.

The research does not support the notion that the company has lost a sale due to internet piracy (some even suggest that piracy actually helps to boost sales in the long run). Not that the sale was physical property that a company was entitled to (as second-hand retail has shown).
 

Souji

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It's completely different.

Digital media development is a sunk cost. Whether you sell 50 copies or 50 million copies - the cost of development is the same (unless you're still in the stone age and selling things on physical media - then it occupies about 30% of the retail value... and that isn't your cost of development - that is your per-unit retail cost that is decided largely upon your confidence in market performance, as the per-unit costs for producing 10 thousand CDs is higher than the per-unit for 100 thousand CDs).

Take "Project Phoenix" launched by MechWarrior Online. The cost to develop the artwork and any specialized code has already been absorbed by the company. That is why they package all of the 'good stuff' with the $80 package and try to argue that it's a $200+ value. The company 'loses' only if you decide to not purchase any package, or if you purchase anything other than the top-tier $80 package.

The cost of the program will not change for them. Whether everyone buys the $20 package or the $80 - it doesn't matter.

Which is why the 'product' and service received by purchasing the most expensive bracket is at such a greater ratio. It's to get you to buy the larger bracket - because it doesn't really cost them anything to give you more.

The cost of developing the game is set and paid up-front. You cannot 'steal' from them - as they lose no product and are afforded no greater cost. Every sale represents an offset (and eventual profit) for the cost of development.

This is why large game publishers have been trying to shut down the second-hand game market for a long time. They make no money if you buy a used game for $20 at GameStop. Of course - they already made their money off of every copy you see in the store (as the stores purchased those copies and are now trying to recover their costs at a profit).

Which is why digital distribution has become so popular. They can charge the MSRP that stores can afford to lower their prices to without having to pay for packaging, shipping, and stocking at 'sunk' costs of server operation (the servers cost about the same to run regardless of how much downloading is done). These fees can go almost directly to the publisher at a much better revenue margin than with any other distribution medium.

Now - from a moral/ethical standpoint - digital media piracy is 'stealing.'

From a realistic standpoint, however - piracy on the whole does not cost companies money, as there was none to be made there, to begin with. Because no physical material has been stolen that must be replaced - it cannot be said that property was actually lost.

The research does not support the notion that the company has lost a sale due to internet piracy (some even suggest that piracy actually helps to boost sales in the long run). Not that the sale was physical property that a company was entitled to (as second-hand retail has shown).

Regarding used games; physical media is different, in the sense that buying a used game does not in fact cause a loss of profit; the publisher has already made a profit due to the game having been already purchased new by the previous owner. Yes, it implies that the second hand user could have instead bought a new copy to potentially double profit, but there already was a profit the first time.

However, with digital distribution, piracy implies there was no "up front" payment. No one paid for the initial copy of the game, since there is no middleman, unless you count torrent sites as such (which they aren't). The publisher didn't make a profit from the first person who pirated a game and seeded it. That's the point I'm making.

But then again, all of us here read pirated manga, which in itself is a privilege. For the sake of knowing what will happen at the end of Naruto, I don't support such a bill. And I'll concede to your point regarding piracy "boosting sales", Aim, while tentative, I suppose it's free advertising for Kishi.
 

Cruciatus

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Correction: We just copy their music.
And the issue you're discussing is commonly used by the authorities to provoke the debate of weather or not to monitor internet usage aka more government spionage and restrictions.

And I just copied my friend's homework. ;)
 
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