[Discussion] People without Haki

[Skull Knight]

Agreed. Ace is the real moron here, attacking the Logia he furiously wants to kill without using his Buso Haki, and then not using his Haoshoku against his executioners.

I have already given u a scan where Ace used Haoshoku haki.
Op wiki also confirm it that Ace had Haoshoku haki. U can check it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I have already given u a scan where Ace used Haoshoku haki.
Op wiki also confirm it that Ace had Haoshoku haki. U can check it.

I'm aware he possesses it, I just doubt he had control of it

 

[loj]

Im positive Ace had haki.

 

[-Akuma-]

Ace didn't know that when he used Fiery Doll. He was expecting Teach to be able to phase through "an attack like that." Why would Ace attack someone he thinks can phase through non-Haki attacks with a non-Haki attack if he had Haki-attacks available?

Ace was unsure when he attacked Teach, hence he used fiery doll to confirm it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Ace was unsure when he attacked Teach, hence he used fiery doll to confirm it.

Why would that matter to him? Did he stop to interview Smoker and all the people on the Billion's ship to see what they're abilities were? He wants to kill Teach, furiously, why would he do that?

 

[-Akuma-]

Why would that matter to him? Did he stop to interview Smoker and all the people on the Billion's ship to see what they're abilities were? He wants to kill Teach, furiously, why would he do that?

Because he was unsure about Teach's ability, that's not comparable to the Smoker situation. Don't act like Ace jumped in against Teach with a blind rage, he was look at what powers he had. The reach is unreal.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Because he was unsure about Teach's ability, that's not comparable to the Smoker situation. Don't act like Ace jumped in against Teach with a blind rage, he was look at what powers he had. The reach is unreal.

No, he didn't. He literally fired off a Hiken against Teach and his crew to start a brawl, not to scope out his abilities. Ace gave no indication he was trying to see what Teach was capable of because he was in the same crew as Teach for years and had no idea he had acquired a new ability. Ace would have already known prior to that fight Teach's abilities aside from the Yami, and had no reason or way of knowing Teach had acquired the Yami Yami no Mi, or any other newer abilities, to decide to scope him out. It wasn't like this was a man Ace had never seen fight before.

 

[-Akuma-]

No, he didn't. He literally fired off a Hiken against Teach and his crew to start a brawl, not to scope out his abilities. Ace gave no indication he was trying to see what Teach was capable of because he was in the same crew as Teach for years and had no idea he had acquired a new ability. Ace would have already known prior to that fight Teach's abilities aside from the Yami, and had no reason or way of knowing Teach had acquired the Yami Yami no Mi, or any other newer abilities, to decide to scope him out. It wasn't like this was a man Ace had never seen fight before.

You must have a selective memory, because when Ace came he was talking, Teach was even mocking him Ace said this and he remained calm. See what really happened was that Van Gur and Burgess were the first to attack with Ace kicking off because the brawl. Ace Hikens Teach and then he gets up saying he ate the darkness LOGIA, that's when Ace used fiery dolls to see if he could phase, Ace is not a idiot you act like and Ace wasn't in a blind rage he wasn't even the first to attack. He confirmed his ability after he said he had it.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I'm not seeing Magellan and Ace with Armament Haki, and for Ace it wouldn't make sense for him to really have it either.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Why would that matter to him? Did he stop to interview Smoker and all the people on the Billion's ship to see what they're abilities were? He wants to kill Teach, furiously, why would he do that?

@bold because that's how nearly every manga fight goes(Or fiction fight for that matter) very rarely does the person come out of the gate full swing even if he wants to kill the other. You're confusing real world emotion and reasoning and applying it to a character, the why question is simple, because that's what Oda decided to do, Ace didn't go full force off the bat because he's limited to the thoughts of his author and just because you see it one way or should be one way doesn't mean the author saw it that way at the time. You act like it's impossible for an anime character to not start a battle with a killing shot.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You must have a selective memory, because when Ace came he was talking, Teach was never mocking him Ace said this and he remained calm. See what really happened was that Van Gur and Burgess were the first to attack with Ace kicking off because the brawl. Ace Hikens Teach and then he gets up saying he ate the darkness LOGIA, that's when Ace used fiery dolls to see if he could phase, Ace is not a idiot you act like and Ace wasn't in a blind rage he wasn't even the first to attack. He confirmed his ability after he said he had it.

But why would that matter to Ace? Ace is furious at Teach and is aiming to KILL him. Why would it matter to Ace or not if he was lying about being a Logia? If Ace truly utilized Busoshoku Haki, why would it make a difference if Teach was lying or not? Just use Haki anyways.

 

[-Akuma-]

But why would that matter to Ace? Ace is furious at Teach and is aiming to KILL him. Why would it matter to Ace or not if he was lying about being a Logia? If Ace truly utilized Busoshoku Haki, why would it make a difference if Teach was lying or not? Just use Haki anyways.

Again Ace is mad but he's not a ****ing idiot he's look at his powers. You see Ace is calm when actually facing Teach himself. Your whole assumption is based of Ace being too mad to think straight. Not everyone who uses busho haki uses at the start every fight aswell especially seeing how vague is was when someone utilizing pre skip.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Again Ace is mad but he's not a ****ing idiot he's look at his powers. You see Ace is calm when actually facing Teach himself. Your whole assumption is based of Ace being too mad to think straight. Not everyone who uses busho haki uses at the start every fight aswell especially seeing how vague is was when someone utilizing pre skip.

I'm not pointing out that Ace is mad because I'm trying to say he wasn't thinking straight. I'm pointing out how mad Ace is because that emphasizes how strong his desire to kill Teach was. Which means if Ace had Haki at his disposal, he would have used it, regardless of whether he knew Teach was a Logia or not. The notion that Ace wanted to test whether or not Teach was lying doesn't make sense because, regardless of whether or not Teach is a Logia, why NOT use Haki? Why NOT use something that enhances your abilities, especially when he tanked one of your strongest and signature technique, regardless of whether or not they are a Logia? By this logic, why would anyone use Haki unless it's against just Logias?

 

[chopstickchakra]

I'm not pointing out that Ace is mad because I'm trying to say he wasn't thinking straight. I'm pointing out how mad Ace is because that emphasizes how strong his desire to kill Teach was. Which means if Ace had Haki at his disposal, he would have used it, regardless of whether he knew Teach was a Logia or not. The notion that Ace wanted to test whether or not Teach was lying doesn't make sense because, regardless of whether or not Teach is a Logia, why NOT use Haki? Why NOT use something that enhances your abilities, especially when he tanked one of your strongest and signature technique, regardless of whether or not they are a Logia? By this logic, why would anyone use Haki unless it's against just Logias?

You're pointing out how mad Ace is to justify your thought because you believe someone angry is out for blood off the bat but that's just your pov and it's applying real life logic to a comic. Almost all comic fights start with a building up phase, it doesn't follow real life logic but it's consistent in comics so you acting like it's impossible for a comic author to not consider real life emotions and draw a standard comic fight is beyond stubborn. Also the author knew Ace had to lose for the sake of his story. If you wanna play the why didn't they card, why didn't shanks a known and accepted haki user and beast lose his arm? Simple answer is because Oda was choosing a time to reveal this information. And the "I bet it on the new gen." answer he put in the manga is an escape answer we have to accept because really he could have used conq. to run it away like he did after losing the arm or used armament to keep it but at the time the story needed him to lose it the way it needed Ace to lose.

That fight didn't really last long either, and most of us accept that BB despite his character is actually strong, he managed to damage Shanks pre-fruit. So Clearly he was above Ace at that point then on top of that he had a new DF that negated Ace's powers which he didn't learn until it was too late. The fight wasn't that eventful either; Van Augur and Burgess attack, Ace uses Fire Fist and hits teach, he rolls around for awhile, gets up and shows black hole, Ace uses Firefly while he's talking, When BB gets up he explains his fruit some more and uses Black Vortex, from the point Ace learned he wouldn't have his DF BB hit him with a big punch that left him reeling and winded and this is from a guy we've established was strong enough to hurt Shanks so it absolutely took a toll on Ace, after getting up he's pulled again and uses a fire attack on his way in, it's at this point I know you'll want to ask why not use haki here and to that I refer you to my part below, Ace's haki fists may still have not been as strong as his DF skills if he hadn't had much training with it at that point. It plays with a typical build up scenario only this tiem around Ace didn't get a chance to go through his full cycle because BB outclassed him as an opponent in strength and w/o his intangibility he couldn't defend against BB.

To your point about why not use something that enhances your abilities, that's all speculation, perhaps his haki wasn't far along enough to coat his fire attacks and his haki fists are still not as good a fighting method for him as his DF techs. And Logia are one of the only time you need to use haki that and fighting another haki user. Luffy doesn't go around using haki on opponents that don't need it just because it would be easier or he could have used it all throughout the Colosseum. Just because it makes sense in a real life situation doesn't mean the author will think of it when they're writing.

Lastly I've been going back through the chapters related to the issue and did it say Ace was going to kill BB, I know he went after him on his own and as you said he was angry and wanted to kill him but WB is their captain and as a pirate the captain is judge and jury and executioner WB even said it was his responsibility to teach BB for killing Thatch so isn't it possible Ace was there to bring Teach back to WB for punishment? Unless it's said he went to kill him personally. I went back through the fight and the meeting between Shanks and WB and Teach is the only one who says" I know you want to kill me" Ace says"You know why I'm here" but those don't equate to the same thing, Ace could have been there to take him back to face WB's justice just as easily as he could have been there to kill him himself.

 

[straightup]

I was reading some threads and it got me thinking, let's make a list of some characters we feel should have armament haki despite not having showcased it in the manga(yet). If you feel like it explain why since some people may disagree. Personally I think anyone of recognition or note who sailed throughout the New World should have it(that means any captains and high-ups in the crew)

First for me personally is;
Ace
It only makes sense that he should have had it despite never showing it. He was the blood of the greatest pirate in OP history and while it's not an auto blessing it's unlikely that it's a trivial point after all the WG was so scared of that fact they tried to kill Ace. He was being groomed to be the next PK by WB, seems odd he didn't at least cover the basics. He survived in the new world and he may have had WB's reputation protecting him somewhat but it's not like WB was literally standing behind him. That's why I think he should have it a reason I think he did have it was his death punch. As a logia that punch should have went straight through him and into Luffy but it didn't, now some can say plot which is true by definition of the word but there should still be a reason why it was so within the plot, the fact Ace used his body to catch Akainu's punch means one of two things to me; either Logia can control their intangibility which was never even hinted at in the manga or Ace had haki enough to slow the punch down and sacrifice his body. Also from what we've seen WB commanders had haki so Ace being a commander would only make sense that he also had it(is there a WB commander known to not have haki?)

Jack
Billion dollar bounty, served under a Yonko with a title so not just some Yonko subordinate, sailed in the New World.

Magellan
The warden of Imple Down, it only makes sense that someone who deals with some of the worst criminals should have a good power and even though they have sea stone as we saw he may need to fight sometimes and the only way to fight the logia and stop them from escaping or rebelling would be haki.

Duke Inuarushi and Nekomamushi
Leaders of a country in the New World, dealing with outsiders who have it it seems the only way they could keep control so long.

Anyone you guys think that by all reason should have it even if they haven't shown it?

wait im confused. Isnt it manga fact that ace atleast has kings haki? I feel like I remember him using it when he was a kid or something along those lines. If he could accidently use it as a kid im assuming he should definitely have control of it as an adult

 

[Punk Hazard]

wait im confused. Isnt it manga fact that ace atleast has kings haki? I feel like I remember him using it when he was a kid or something along those lines. If he could accidently use it as a kid im assuming he should definitely have control of it as an adult

He had had it as a kid, but didn't show any control. If he did, I'm sure he would have used it on the execution platform.

 

[ToshiZO]

Blame Oda for not having Haki properly laid out.

Its clear as day Ace is supposed to have armament haki

He is one of the top commanders in a Yonkou crew, and is renowned in the New World. I'd believe Chopper is Gol D Roger before Ace not having haki.

Any other relevant character is supposed to have it as well, including Crocodile.

Haki to this day is Oda's least organized element.

 

[-Akuma-]

I'm not pointing out that Ace is mad because I'm trying to say he wasn't thinking straight. I'm pointing out how mad Ace is because that emphasizes how strong his desire to kill Teach was. Which means if Ace had Haki at his disposal, he would have used it, regardless of whether he knew Teach was a Logia or not. The notion that Ace wanted to test whether or not Teach was lying doesn't make sense because, regardless of whether or not Teach is a Logia, why NOT use Haki? Why NOT use something that enhances your abilities, especially when he tanked one of your strongest and signature technique, regardless of whether or not they are a Logia? By this logic, why would anyone use Haki unless it's against just Logias?

You were trying to point out that Ace was soo mad that he wouldn't sit back and analyze Teach's abilities and treating him like an idiot, while you're making the point that Ace would go all out against Teach. You do realize to Ace Teach wasn't that much of a threat at all before getting his logia and most likely wouldn't have to go all out to beat him. This is like saying why Lufy didn't start off with G4 or Zoro didn't go full throttle against Pica, knowing damn well somebody doesn't go all out right off the bat, especially Ace against Teach. Ace could of beat DFless Teach without going. You say Teach tanked his attack but he was screaming on the floor and got up burned, me and you have a different definition of tanking. Teach didn't tank anything at all. Not to mention haki useage was vague as hell pre skip

 

[Skull Knight]

He had had it as a kid, but didn't show any control. If he did, I'm sure he would have used it on the execution platform.

@bold
U knw there was another guy who i suppose definately had Conqueror Haki but didnot used it on execution Platform.

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His crew & some of the strongest pirates of new era were standing infront of him.

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I m sure these guys would have helped him if he had fought back.Still he didnot used conqueror haki.

 

[Punk Hazard]

@bold
U knw there was another guy who i suppose definately had Conqueror Haki but didnot used it on execution Platform.

You must be registered for see images

His crew was standing infront of him.

Still he didnot used conqueror haki.

Roger was okay with dying fam. He turned himself in.