Peace

[Devlin]

Whats your view/defintion of peace?We have nagato's,jiraya's and we sortve have narutos(he will give a definate answer in the next chapter most likely when it comes to him,bit like what he said to that kid in the anime ''home is where someone is thinking of you....'')What do you guys think?

 

[LeafDude]

My definition of peace
-no wars
-all ppl dont hurt each other
-all ppl help each other 2.

 

[zumorikato]

The major difference is that Naruto tries to gain peace by using kindness, where as Pain tries to create an artificial peace, by installing fear in the people he want to create peace with.

The problem with last named is, that the peace is, its forced onto the people, whether they like it or not, where as Naruto's way is a mutual agreement . The other negative aspect of Nagato's way is like he said only temporarily, as soon as he is out of the equation, the world will return to what it was, because the people that was oppressed, never really wanted it out of fear. Thus the vicious cycle repeats itself

 

[Izuna Uchiha]

Whats your view/defintion of peace?We have nagato's,jiraya's and we sortve have narutos(he will give a definate answer in the next chapter most likely when it comes to him,bit like what he said to that kid in the anime ''home is where someone is thinking of you....'')What do you guys think?

It kinda hurt me to say it, but nagato is right...Don't be fooled by the manga. The real person who was talking in the manga wasn't nagato, it was kishi. Kishi is Japanese, what does Japanese have suffered? The atomic bomb...In manga kishi is speaking the truth, the human is a stupid beast! We don't learn from our precedent error, we are only affected by what we see, and we're ready to do anything to protect out lives...In these line spoke by nagato, kishi let us know how affected by the destructive effect of the atomic bomb, but furthermore, he's telling us that he believe men will use it again, knowing is destructive power, ignoring the evidence. This my friend is us...And Kishi just made us realize even more how disgusting we are.

 

[Devlin]

This is true but also i mean i think it depends on the way you look at it (pun for kage bunshin to look both ways ) anyways i mean you can look at all the good that is done in the world and you can look at all the bad and at the root of it all a famous saying which i think decribes it ''Good needs Evil as does Evil need Good to co-exist'' although its not right its very true.

 

[zumorikato]

It kinda hurt me to say it, but nagato is right...Don't be fooled by the manga. The real person who was talking in the manga wasn't nagato, it was kishi. Kishi is Japanese, what does Japanese have suffered? The atomic bomb...In manga kishi is speaking the truth, the human is a stupid beast! We don't learn from our precedent error, we are only affected by what we see, and we're ready to do anything to protect out lives...In these line spoke by nagato, kishi let us know how affected by the destructive effect of the atomic bomb, but furthermore, he's telling us that he believe men will use it again, knowing is destructive power, ignoring the evidence. This my friend is us...And Kishi just made us realize even more how disgusting we are.

I agree with you regarding this, very nicely put. I also think that we are a pathetic specie. But in the end it comes down to how willing you are to break you from the evil that are with in. I think that is what Naruto is trying to show the Ninja world, that you dont have to create a sense of fear, to create peace, but to rather to do it trough love.

We have seen this countless times, like with Gaara, and how the people feared him and thus showed respect. and later Gaara changed due to Naruto, to rather let people respect him due to his kindness instead of how ruthless he might be.

 

[zumorikato]

This is true but also i mean i think it depends on the way you look at it (pun for kage bunshin to look both ways ) anyways i mean you can look at all the good that is done in the world and you can look at all the bad and at the root of it all a famous saying which i think decribes it ''Good needs Evil as does Evil need Good to co-exist'' although its not right its very true.

Sorry buddy, but I disagree with you.

As far as I know, Evil breeds evil. And Good and Bad does not need each other. You can argue and say : But you need good to differentiate from bad and vice versa, but I dont think you need to burn your hand to find out if the stove is hot. If you understand the example that Im trying to make.

Like I explained in my previous post, that though the goals may be the same for Nagato and Naruto, the means is just as important. At the end of the day if you try to earn peace through fear, you only earn a false peace. And the moment the person can, he will stab you in the back. Unlike Nagato, Naruto tries to find a more positive attitude towards finding peace. He's yet to find the answer, but he know its not the answer to cause more destruction like what Pain does.

And btw good thread, and interesting posts, Devlin.

 

[Devlin]

Sorry buddy, but I disagree with you.

As far as I know, Evil breeds evil. And Good and Bad does not need each other. You can argue and say : But you need good to differentiate from bad and vice versa, but I dont think you need to burn your hand to find out if the stove is hot. If you understand the example that Im trying to make.

Like I explained in my previous post, that though the goals may be the same for Nagato and Naruto, the means is just as important. At the end of the day if you try to earn peace through fear, you only earn a false peace. And the moment the person can, he will stab you in the back. Unlike Nagato, Naruto tries to find a more positive attitude towards finding peace. He's yet to find the answer, but he know its not the answer to cause more destruction like what Pain does.

And btw good thread, and interesting posts, Devlin.

Heh thanks i like to think i come up with good posts and threads i like your example but to add to that all you can do is learn from your mistakes in other words you won't put your hand back on the stove therefore we should learn from our mistakes i.e. war

 

[Uchiha Itachi 09]

It kinda hurt me to say it, but nagato is right...Don't be fooled by the manga. The real person who was talking in the manga wasn't nagato, it was kishi. Kishi is Japanese, what does Japanese have suffered? The atomic bomb...In manga kishi is speaking the truth, the human is a stupid beast! We don't learn from our precedent error, we are only affected by what we see, and we're ready to do anything to protect out lives...In these line spoke by nagato, kishi let us know how affected by the destructive effect of the atomic bomb, but furthermore, he's telling us that he believe men will use it again, knowing is destructive power, ignoring the evidence. This my friend is us...And Kishi just made us realize even more how disgusting we are.

Very nicely posted!!!
I agree with you on this.
Kishi is plainly portraying how we as human beings are flawed.
But he is also putting it in a way that we can see both sides of the story and then choose the one which suits us best.

I have to disagree with the person who said that good doesn?t need evil.
It has been clear throught history that Peace only comes after war.
After long periods of peace we have always seen war and vice-versa (although we can debate if we have ever been truly at peace as there are always conflicts going on)

It is like the yin and the yang theory, everything needs balance. Too much good and humans will become lazy and stagnate. On the other hand too much war and humans will be sour and miserable.
It is not in the human nature to be peaceful.
Just go back to our primal instincts.

If you think about it, we are just like viruses.
Everywhere we go, we destroy, take over and basically f-up things.
Not saying everyone is bad, but generally our behavior leads to self-destruction.
If you think I am being too pessimist, just look at where our society is right now.

To sum up, in the real world peace will always be achieved after war.
In Naruto verse it makes sense for peace to come through Naruto?s way.
It would be awsome if kishi came up with an ending that overall turns out good, but not without a lot of sacrifice.

I may have spoken too much...anyways as always this is just my opinion.

Peace.

 

[Devlin]

Hehe i knew this thread would get an interesting debate going

 

[Uchiha Itachi 09]

Hehe i knew this thread would get an interesting debate going

True.

Good idea.

reps will be given where reps are deserved.

Peace.

 

[dredblack7]

Peace, doesn't really exist, unless nothing exists.


Idk how kishi wants to finish up the manga, but this seems to be a turning-point for Naruto himself. The way this is, according to the Toad's predictions, The Destined Child will either restore the world to peace, or utterly destroy it. There are many possibilities within those words, such as:

1-Pein's Goal being achieved and there being sporadic periods of grievance("peace")
2-Naruto decides to turn his back on everything he knew and unleash the nine-tails (who knows...idk so tho)
3-Pein's Goal being the one to utterly destroy the world
4-Naruto becoming something more than just a hokage, bringing all the Nations under one unity before his own death.


on another note, I had a strange dream last night, i waited to read this last chapter and stayed up till 1:20am, then went to bed to think on it. Naturally, my dream was about the end of Naruto.

It went something like this:

-The Tailed Beasts are unleashed, Pein has already failed to retrieve the Kyuubi...so 1-7 are sealed within madara, who then kills off everyone else in Akatsuki.
-Madara goes wild, destroying everything in sight. Naruto fights him, Sasuke intervenes before Madara can make his killing blow, Sasuke takes the hit for Naruto and uses a Space/Time Jutsu to evade death himself, Naruto thinks Sasuke's done for and goes all out crazy.
-Naruto can't beat Madara, and becomes a sacrifice to kill Madara.


beats the hell out of me, it was one wierd dream. don't even bother thinking or debating about it, lol...its not important enough to discuss.

 

[Izuna Uchiha]

Very nicely posted!!!
I agree with you on this.
Kishi is plainly portraying how we as human beings are flawed.
But he is also putting it in a way that we can see both sides of the story and then choose the one which suits us best.

I have to disagree with the person who said that good doesn?t need evil.
It has been clear throught history that Peace only comes after war.
After long periods of peace we have always seen war and vice-versa (although we can debate if we have ever been truly at peace as there are always conflicts going on)

It is like the yin and the yang theory, everything needs balance. Too much good and humans will become lazy and stagnate. On the other hand too much war and humans will be sour and miserable.
It is not in the human nature to be peaceful.
Just go back to our primal instincts.

If you think about it, we are just like viruses.
Everywhere we go, we destroy, take over and basically f-up things.
Not saying everyone is bad, but generally our behavior leads to self-destruction.
If you think I am being too pessimist, just look at where our society is right now.

To sum up, in the real world peace will always be achieved after war.
In Naruto verse it makes sense for peace to come through Naruto?s way.
It would be awsome if kishi came up with an ending that overall turns out good, but not without a lot of sacrifice.

I may have spoken too much...anyways as always this is just my opinion.

Peace.

Thk for the support!

And for the virus part...Ur a fan of the matrix aren't u! lol

 

[Uchiha Itachi 09]

Thk for the support!

And for the virus part...Ur a fan of the matrix aren't u! lol

hehe...
I would have to say yes.
Specifically the first one.
In my opinion if thye had left it at the first Matrix, people would stil be debating it.
Cause either way you look at it, you could say it was all a dream or that those things were really happening...etc...
I try to have faith in our kind, but it just seems harder and harder every day.
By the way...I live in Brazil and the things I see and hear about are gruesome...I can?t even imagine what goes on in isolated places like middle east, Asia (viatnam, Laos, etc) and Africa.

Peace to all...however it may come to us.

 

[Izuna Uchiha]

hehe...
I would have to say yes.
Specifically the first one.
In my opinion if thye had left it at the first Matrix, people would stil be debating it.
Cause either way you look at it, you could say it was all a dream or that those things were really happening...etc...
I try to have faith in our kind, but it just seems harder and harder every day.
By the way...I live in Brazil and the things I see and hear about are gruesome...I can?t even imagine what goes on in isolated places like middle east, Asia (viatnam, Laos, etc) and Africa.

Peace to all...however it may come to us.

lol I second u on that one...And that's why I don't read the news neither watch TV (only the simpsons lol). U feel way better with urself if ur not aware. Because knowing we'll all die, what's the point of a life if it isn't beeing happy? So I prefer to live happy and ignorant of the world suffering (knowing I can't change a thing) than aware and miserable...

 

[Devlin]

hehe...
I would have to say yes.
Specifically the first one.
In my opinion if thye had left it at the first Matrix, people would stil be debating it.
Cause either way you look at it, you could say it was all a dream or that those things were really happening...etc...
I try to have faith in our kind, but it just seems harder and harder every day.
By the way...I live in Brazil and the things I see and hear about are gruesome...I can?t even imagine what goes on in isolated places like middle east, Asia (viatnam, Laos, etc) and Africa.

Peace to all...however it may come to us.

There are things that happen all over the world that the media don't cover you could be in england but think of it this way....your view of the country can get swayed by what they show you....not every country is squeaky clean....i mean take for example in the newspapers atm in the uk a celebrity is dying of cancer and they are making a big deal about it....i just turn round and think well what about the millions of others that are dying from cancer??This celebrity is getting ?1million for the them to film and get pictures at her wedding before she dies,how do you think other people with loved ones with cancer must feel about this?

 

[Uchiha Itachi 09]

There are things that happen all over the world that the media don't cover you could be in england but think of it this way....your view of the country can get swayed by what they show you....not every country is squeaky clean....i mean take for example in the newspapers atm in the uk a celebrity is dying of cancer and they are making a big deal about it....i just turn round and think well what about the millions of others that are dying from cancer??This celebrity is getting ?1million for the them to film and get pictures at her wedding before she dies,how do you think other people with loved ones with cancer must feel about this?

I really couldn?t tell if you are pro or against my argument...LOL.
Either ways, we all know how manipulative the media is and quite frankly I for one only believe about 1/10th of it.
And yes, no country is clean period.

As for the cancer thing I am totally with you on it. It disgusts me when they try to make you sorry for one individual just because he/she is famous but simply ignore when tragedy happens to common folk like us. Unfortunatelly things like this have become normal in sense.

A couple of years back a friend of mine went to visit the biggest televison network here. He went during our national evening news which is supposed to be real serious and stuff and is live.
Anyhow, he said that they lay out a basic plan and start broadcasting normally.
If the ratings start to go down they will put in something with drama, violence, suffereing, etc.

Maybe we sort of all new it would be something like this, but having it confirmed is another thing.

sorry for going sort of off topic on this one.

to sum up...
1 - The media can?t be trusted.
2 - Human beings are animals who can?t be tamed.
3 - Screw all this, live your life and try to be happy.
4 - Naruto is one of my personal get aways from real life.

Peace...or War?
War...or Peace?

(listen to Glory & Consequence by Ben Harper, awsome lyrics)

 

[Devlin]

I have to agree with you on that one, i mean there are more important things in life then war,everyday things that people have to deal with rather than going to war over oil/religion etc...i mean a friend of mine that i knew for 10 yrs died the other day in hospital from a nut allergy and it couldn't of happened to a nicer guy he didn't deserve something like that the guy was only 22.To me war is trivial and to have peace there must be war for peace would not exist without it we wouldn't know what peace was.Sorry to get all phylosophical on this but its true,its nice to hear intellectual responses to this thread though,much appreciated for not spamming on a serious thread.

 

[konoha s beautiful beast]

pains view of peace is a complete madnace!

 

[DarkShadowM99]

Good does not need evil to exist nor vice versa. All cultures speak of a Golden age were everything was perfect and the reason for that peace in all cultures was due to the fact that humans did not govern themselves but were govern by a higher power. For it is written, "It does not belong to earthling man even to direct his own step." The time will come once again when peace is restored and only the righteous shall inherit the earth. It was written.
Proof of this exist with reality of the world around you. Taking a look at history, it is easy to see that humans have tried every sort of self rule and government and they all have failed. As the years progress you see the entire world situation getting worst, the quality of this human rule getting worst.
Our world leaders are all corrupt and even the genuine ones with power are surrounded by those who aren't. Some may argue that we are better then the ancient ones before us, that we have advanced technologically and such. The fact is that not only are the old diseases which our medicines cannot defend against are still abundant but new ones are arising as well. The earth produces an abundant amount of food yet Human greed allows 40,000 children to die everyday of starvation.
Humans are clearly mismanaging the earth, thus it is impossible for humans to solve the problem that they are the source of.

-D-