Peace: Is Order or Freedom the Way?

Order or Freedom?


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CurseSealofEarth

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This discussion stems from my recent Assassin's Creed obsession so there's a lot of themes in that game I'd like to discuss.

Since the first civilization arose thousands of years ago (or millions depending on your beliefs) mankind has been searching for the answers to true peace on Earth. Every era of peace has been preceded by an era of war. The cycle is endless. Differences have kept mankind at one another's throats to this day. Many have their own philosophies on what should be the course of action for achieving this dream; most of those boil down to Order or Freedom.

Let's define these terms in the way I mean them so there is as little confusion as possible, as well as listing the pros and cons of them:

ORDER: The idea that all people should follow a single doctrine or a single set of rules designed to keep all people on the same page. This would be considered a strict and imposing viewpoint, a very "My way or the highway" way of thinking.
PROS:
  • Differences would be minimal in people, if all believe the same thing and hold the same morals then there would be very little to fight about.
  • People would never be in a power struggle because everyone would know their place.
  • If a situation were to arise that would be unexpected such as a head of state dying, there would be minimal panic or even awkward transitioning phase because everyone would know the protocol.
CONS:
  • Any sort of personal liberties or any decision that you make would have to be "For the greater good".
  • What you want out of your life will be unimportant, it will all be for the good of everyone.
  • God forbid you wanna smoke some meth. (You guys ever tried that stuff? ****s with you.) Basically free thinking and inventiveness is all but vanished,

FREEDOM: Everyone is free to make their own choices, and you alone must face the consequences for it. You look out for how what you do might affect others because you wouldn't want your liberties stepped on would you?

PROS:
  • You are in control of your own destiny, you make the decisions that you desire.
  • Your thoughts aren't regulated so you can explore any possibility that you want.
  • You can smoke a ****ton of meth. (Seriously though don't do that. Or do, It's all about freedom!)
CONS: Just look at the pros for Order.

In the AC games we've always seen the Templars depicted as the bad guys, they want to control and manipulate the populace for their own power. We can decide for ourselves who is truly the bad guys though. The Templars desire order because they believe for the advancement of society to reach it's greatest potential there needs to be an order to things to ensure everything runs smoothly. Chaos is a very poor way to run an Order after all. However, you can see how giving a handful of people all the power and authority would be a bad thing. To have absolute power would corrupt them absolutely. In AC2 The Borgia family does this exact thing in pursuit of their personal power.

In the AC games Freedom is always portrayed as the best option, that people should choose their own destiny even if maybe means ruin for everyone else. In AC2 we see Ezio Auditore have everything work out for him in the end by keeping to his Freedom message. However, if you look to Jacob Frye of AC Syndicate you will see that even though he did free the boroughs from the Blighters control he still managed to nearly ruin the infrastructure of London simply by doing what he thought was right. The "greater good" did not benefit from his work and may have suffered even more from it.

What do you think is the best method for peace? If this seemed biased it's because I am biased towards Order. I love rules. I think the only way to eliminate strife is to eliminate our differences. That doesn't mean kill non-whites though, I see how that started to sound like the beginning to a Klan rally.
 

rollin

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In a way,i think both
 

jimbobbity

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It's up to people to enforce order through freedom, but that'll never happen.

Personally, I prefer the idea of freedom more as I've never been one to enjoy being a slave to the world, but I know that there are those whod abuse their freedom and do what they want with it.

In short, ive not no answer.
 

Dreckerplayer

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Wow, this is long enough for me NOT to answer.
 

Donald J Trump

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Good question. When you say "peace" do you mean peace in society or between countries? The order you speak of is basically NWO. There is a book called 1984 written by George Orwell. It's a book that everyone interested in philosophy has read and generally any avid reader has at least heard about. It's about a society that is under constant surveillance, even when you sleep and use the toilet.Very interesting...

Anyhow, here is my answer. I don't want to say that peace is unattainable for sure because I haven't thought about this topic too much so there could be things I'm missing.However my basic idea is that it's not really attainable due to the way we are made as humans.When we are born we are instilled with mechanisms and emotions to push us ahead and force us ahead... e.g being bored is an emotion we have so that we step out of our comfort zone and do something productive as humans to assist in our survival. Imagine always being happy with everything you have. We'd never want to invent and make changes because we would be happy with things the way they are.Love, this emotion pushes us to reproduce so we could pass down our genetics etc etc. The point I'm getting at is that in either of these scenarios, greed,lust,envy,wrath,gluttony... the things we were wired with to motivate us will really always be with us unless we change our biology. As long as these things exist, there will always be conflict. It's literally imprinted in us to want the best things for ourselves. This however isn't possible... you can only have 1 winner in a 100 meter race, if 2 of the top guys get the same time, then it's a draw.

So in short: conflict comes when two or more people want the same thing that can't be split. We will always want the same thing in both societies so there will always be conflict. It's just that simple.
 
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Goetia

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AC Revelations and III find the perfect answer to the Templar rhetoric:

Laws are what establishes the foundation for peace. There doesn't need to be enforced dictatorships or single-banner nation/body to create peace in the world. If you want peace, you need to find balance between freedom and order. Favouring the extremes doesn't create peace, only opportunities for chaos. If you have no laws and freedom in its purest form, there's anarchy and chaos. But if you have a world where everyone follows a single school of thought, and living under a forced peace, there's going to be those who rebel. The repercussions of both elements are inevitable. The database entry on Prince Ahmet sums it up quite well too; "always seeking the simple solutions to complex problems". Connor's desire to unite the Templars and Assassins was a step in the right direction, but its the foolishness of human beings and their unwillingness to cooperate that always sends things south.
 

Edogawa

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You can't achieve peace in a national or worldwide level, but you can achieve peace in a personal level, so freedom would be my answer. Freedom is a human nature; freedom of thought, speech, behaviour etc. are not something you can take away from people, and if you do so, you'll be met with protest. Also, free societies have a higher rate of success in political, economic and social fields than countries with Order; just compare a free society like Britain to an Order society like China.

A soul that has no freedom has no peace.
 
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I dont trust Order because it depends on who the authority happens to be and what they stand for
 

AllKnowingShinobi

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I say neither. Peace is unattainable or unacceptable to us because peace is nothingness. In a sense that peace is only the free movements of physically , mentally , and spiritual projections. We live in a world of laws thats beyond our comprehension. Peace is the ultimate goal that isnt possible for our world to grasp . Its a fairy tale in disguise. A fascade to hidden the enviable fate we bear.

So cook some mac n chesse and just enjoy the ride

Clarification our bodys are all ways in conflict with gravity weather and emotion, we are at conflicts between others or ourself, we see conflict in every corner of our lives. Peace cant be possible in any sense
 
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Brady

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Order and the illusion of freedom creates true peace. There will still be rape and murder, but more grandiose issues would be taken care of.
 

kimb

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False dichotomy.
 
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