[Theory] Paths for Peace-Finale: Hagoromo's End Game

[Samest]

Awesome, nice work.
The last sentence reminds me of Danzo and Hiruzen.
One is darkness, one i light, both are needed.

 

[Glazebone]

I think that deep down Sasuke still carries resentment and hatred towards the Leaf Village for what happened to his clan. And even if Naruto became Hokage, one day he would have to step down and a new Hokage would have to take his palce. With that comes uncertainty. And even if Sasuke somehow manages to recreate the Uchiha clan unless everybody in the village accept them as full-fledged members of the leaf peace will not last. I think they are both destined to die together and renew the cycle of Ashura&Indra's reincarnations.

 

[ANiMUS]

I think that deep down Sasuke still carries resentment and hatred towards the Leaf Village for what happened to his clan. And even if Naruto became Hokage, one day he would have to step down and a new Hokage would have to take his palce. With that comes uncertainty. And even if Sasuke somehow manages to recreate the Uchiha clan unless everybody in the village accept them as full-fledged members of the leaf peace will not last. I think they are both destined to die together and renew the cycle of Ashura&Indra's reincarnations.

Sasuke said himself that he can no longer act like a child, he wanted to learn what he should do with his own power, thats why he sought out the past hokages. Even if Sasuke still has some resentment he learned that the meaning of the word shinobi is to endure. I doubt that he still bears resentment for the village seeing how he wants to protect it.

He most likely faults the current shinobi system and thats why he wants to change it. Sasuke reverting back to hating the realistic from a real life perspective, but remember this is manga and showing Indra turn back to evil at this point would only mean that Indra is a force that should be eliminated from this world because its pure evil.

Kishi doesn't do pure evil, everyone has some degree of rationalizing.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

Your theory seems logic if read superficially. But if we consider your analysis itself, it was shallow and so leads to a good conclusion based on wrong facts. Such logical sequence is therefore wrong.

(1) On Indra and Ashura

While we know the ways of each one of them, you cannot say that there was no bond between them. From all accounts given in the manga, their conflict came only from Hagoromo's decision to entrust everything to Ashura while Indra the elder was the natural inheritor.

Thus, the lack of bond is not the source of the conflict. Rather, it is Indra's own decision to be the most powerful and recognized.

(2) On Hasirama and Madara

This is the same thing as Ashura and Indra. The only difference here is that both Hashi and Madara are not true brother, and we don't know Hashirama's background prior to meeting Madara.

Here, you can see there was a bond between Hashirama and Madara that leads to conceptual creation of the leaf village. Here, instead of Hagoromo making the decision, the village people made the decision, and it was the right one. From Madara's behavior prior to the end of the war, there is no way he could be the chef.

Moreover, Madara having read the stone tablet already had his idea, and we can prove that he was not interested in any cooperation. Madara set out for eternal war and Hashirama made the right decision. In fact, Hashirama behavior was so shallow that Madara survived.

Again, here, it was not a lack of bond or common ideal. Rather, it was Madara's greed for power and domination that leds to what became the end of the two. In fact, we have now many facts that show that Madara never wanted or believed in peace a la Hagoromo.

(3) On Sasuke and Naruto

Again here, it is the same as Ashura and Indra. While Naruto and Sasuke are not blood relative, they are exactly what Hagoromo said about Ashura and Indra. One seemed talented that the other from childhood, but actually the least genius had a lot of hidden power in himself. They had a bond, and it wasn't a shallow one. They were united on the battlefield and also share the same loneliness and orphan-ness.

Again, Sasuke chose to go on his own way despite the bond and everyone who loved him. In the end, peace will depend on whether he will do the right decision. Unlike what the fanbase think, there is never two people with equal power or equal fate in reality. This is the hard reality that the Uchiha or Indra side has to cope with. They must admit that while they look cool in the beginning, power lies within Ashura's side along with the power to draw people to them.

In my opinion, it was't because Hagoromo entrusted everything to Ashura. It wasn't because Indra wanted power. Rather, it was because Indra and his descendant have trouble admitting that Ahsura and his descendant are stronger and chosen by fate to rule. In the end, Madara proved what I am saying. He proved that he is not interested in peace, but in being the ruler no matter what his rulership bring to the people.

Finally, if Sasuke continue to think he is stronger than Naruto while Naruto continue to love him, there will be no end. At some point, Sasuke will have to admit that Naruto is stronger than him in every aspect - that is in leadership and power. This is the hard fate that the uchiha must face, in particular Indra.


PS: You also ignored that Ashura died in battle with Indra based on Hagoromo's account. Showing Naruto's statement to Sasuke as a better solution while ignoring their the end of Ashura and Indra is in some way making up a theory. Maybe, Ashura died intentionally with Indra because he couldn't change him and couldn't bring himself to kill him and survive.

 

[ANiMUS]

Your theory seems logic if read superficially. But if we consider your analysis itself, it was shallow and so leads to a good conclusion based on wrong facts. Such logical sequence is therefore wrong.

(1) On Indra and Ashura

While we know the ways of each one of them, you cannot say that there was no bond between them. From all accounts given in the manga, their conflict came only from Hagoromo's decision to entrust everything to Ashura while Indra the elder was the natural inheritor.

Thus, the lack of bond is not the source of the conflict. Rather, it is Indra's own decision to be the most powerful and recognized.

(2) On Hasirama and Madara

This is the same thing as Ashura and Indra. The only difference here is that both Hashi and Madara are not true brother, and we don't know Hashirama's background prior to meeting Madara.

Here, you can see there was a bond between Hashirama and Madara that leads to conceptual creation of the leaf village. Here, instead of Hagoromo making the decision, the village people made the decision, and it was the right one. From Madara's behavior prior to the end of the war, there is no way he could be the chef.

Moreover, Madara having read the stone tablet already had his idea, and we can prove that he was not interested in any cooperation. Madara set out for eternal war and Hashirama made the right decision. In fact, Hashirama behavior was so shallow that Madara survived.

Again, here, it was not a lack of bond or common ideal. Rather, it was Madara's greed for power and domination that leds to what became the end of the two. In fact, we have now many facts that show that Madara never wanted or believed in peace a la Hagoromo.

(3) On Sasuke and Naruto

Again here, it is the same as Ashura and Indra. While Naruto and Sasuke are not blood relative, they are exactly what Hagoromo said about Ashura and Indra. One seemed talented that the other from childhood, but actually the least genius had a lot of hidden power in himself. They had a bond, and it wasn't a shallow one. They were united on the battlefield and also share the same loneliness and orphan-ness.

Again, Sasuke chose to go on his own way despite the bond and everyone who loved him. In the end, peace will depend on whether he will do the right decision. Unlike what the fanbase think, there is never two people with equal power or equal fate in reality. This is the hard reality that the Uchiha or Indra side has to cope with. They must admit that while they look cool in the beginning, power lies within Ashura's side along with the power to draw people to them.

In my opinion, it was't because Hagoromo entrusted everything to Ashura. It wasn't because Indra wanted power. Rather, it was because Indra and his descendant have trouble admitting that Ahsura and his descendant are stronger and chosen by fate to rule. In the end, Madara proved what I am saying. He proved that he is not interested in peace, but in being the ruler no matter what his rulership bring to the people.

Finally, if Sasuke continue to think he is stronger than Naruto while Naruto continue to love him, there will be no end. At some point, Sasuke will have to admit that Naruto is stronger than him in every aspect - that is in leadership and power. This is the hard fate that the uchiha must face, in particular Indra.


PS: You also ignored that Ashura died in battle with Indra based on Hagoromo's account. Showing Naruto's statement to Sasuke as a better solution while ignoring their the end of Ashura and Indra is in some way making up a theory. Maybe, Ashura died intentionally with Indra because he couldn't change him and couldn't bring himself to kill him and survive.

Ok, first we are free to interpret the manga as we like. Hagoromo said nothing about Ashura being stronger and according to him the power that he attained made him equal to Indra.

Also it was never stated that Ashura tried to change Indra, Indra went out and did everything on his own and when he wasn't chosen he attacked Ashura, thats all we know. Madara is interested in peace, but he thinks that attempting to achieve it is futile just like Kaguya.

Sasuke already came to grips that Naruto might be stronger than him when Naruto showcased BSM, even though he may have been jealous he still jumped in to save Naruto and even inspired Naruto to keep going.

I appreciate hearing your opinion, but it I can't share your sentiments

 

[Glazebone]

Well I just wonder what part can Sasuke play after the War is over. I think we can all agree that Madara will be defeated one way or another.

 

[InvaderRaz]

Paths for Peace-Finale: Hagoromo's End Game
Intro​

For those who are new and have not read my theories regarding

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I suggest you follow the links and catch up before reading this thread seeing how it is the last installment of a set. Okay? Alright let us begin :yayy:

Spoiler

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I AM HE WHO SHALT ACHIEVE PEACE AND ORDER MY NAME IS HAGOROMO. This is a Viz translation by the way. You wouldn't believe how many mistranslations there are. All the other translations have him speaking as if he has already achieved peace and order, but oh well you cant really expect perfection when you get the chapters for free. Anyway back to the point Hagoromo other wise known as the Sage of Six Paths since his time on Earth has pursued the goal of Peace. Hagoromo inherited this desire from his mother Kaguya

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Seeing how I have already done a thread on Kaguya I can make the long story short and just tell you that she failed. Why did she fail? Well, Kaguya's Path for Peace was basically to her personally intervening in human conflicts and utilizing her immense power to control and lead mankind. Kaguya alone held all the power, because of which she eventually became obsessed with it and as a result lost control. In other words Absolute Power, Absolutely corrupted her.

Hagoromo's Remedy

With his mother's failure Hagoromo took over the pursuit for peace and learning from her mistakes he decided to divvy up the power.

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Hagoromo taught the way of Ninshuu as a way to connect the people's spirits together in a way that ppl would come to understand each. Hagoromo planned on utilizing this mutual understanding as a way not control people, but to lead them on a path to peace. This path was naive and it failed. Instead of utilizing the chakra that the Sage gave them to understand each other ppl used that it to mimic Kaguya and weaponized their chakra to further their war efforts. So why did this path fail? To put it bluntly not everyone wants peace. People fight for greed, revenge, and some ppl really r just bad, not everyone wants to understand each other and even though you may know how your neighbor may feel, that doesn't mean you care. There is nothing to really bond you with your neighbor or anyone else for that matter. Hagoromo's failed and that resulted in the reinstating of Kaguya's rule. (Kaguya once again took control of mankind)

Learning from Mistakes

In time the Sage had two sons, Indra and Ashura. There is a reason that the Sage favored Ashura's path. Ashura did something that the Sage failed to do. He binded ppl together through love. Ashura's Path is a path of light. It draws in those who seek peace and brings those to a common understanding, that is something that even with his powerful chakra Hagoromo failed to do. Indra's path on the other hand is more of a recognition that to a point Kaguya was right. Mankind did need someone to enforce order to a certain extent, but the flaw in Kaguya's path is that she alone is all powerful and as a result she is corrupted by her own power. Indra on the other hand is not all powerful his power can be checked Indra can be corrected and that keeps him from becoming conceited. Together these two paths formed Hagoromo's new ideal for peace. Ashura leading the ppl towards the path of Light and Indra weeding out those who pursued the path of darkness.

Failures

1.Ashura and Indra- Though the Sage initially trained both of his son's to succeed him in the end the Sage only recognized Ashura. Not only that, but the Sage also never paid any attention to the relationship between Indra and Ashura. (Ashura and Indra couldn't have been close since Indra always did things alone. He expected them to work together when in reality they probably weren't good brothers or even friends.

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2. Madara and Hashirama- Madara and Hashirama would have been an ideal pair, but there was a problem.

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In the end Hashirama did what he had to do. When the village needed a leader even though he thought that Madara would be a better leader Hashirama took the seat

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and in the end Hashirama (Ashura) was willing to kill Madara and sever his bond (Indra) if it meant protecting his ideals for peace.

Conclusion

Hagoromo's End Game, his final gamble is on Ashura assisted by Indra, but in order to succeed where the others have failed they must fulfill certain requirements.

1. Ashura and Indra must pursue peace together.

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2. They must share a bond to keep them together

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3. Ashura can not compromise on his bond with Indra even if that means dying together with him U_U

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Ashura and Indra will clash, their views will be different, but it is only through both that balance can be achieved. Hagoromo will utilize Ashura as a means to bring ppl together, to unite their hearts and to lead them, Indra assists Ashura in recognizing the world's darkness and maintaining the order of his reign.

Well thats the end to my theory I hope you enjoyed it

Let me know what u guys think down below.

Senju lead the village while the Uchiha are the police.... if your theory is true then it would explain this parallel as well

 

[IcedFox]

This would make so much sense.

I love it.

+rep!

 

[Deliquesce]

nice theory!!!!!!