Part 1 Kakashi vs Hiashi Hyuga

[~Sky~]

Now now, settle down everyone. Deidara nukes them all.

 

[Bogard]

Kakashi wins. He was the strongest jounin alongside Gai even in part1

 

[paratise]

Well the fact that you believe Neji can beat Kakashi and TSUNADE proves you are a fangirl.

Part 1 Kakashi don't twist what i say.
Tsunade wo Katsuyu. And i have yet to encounter an arguement from Tsunade supporters that convinces me othervise.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Part 1 Kakashi don't twist what i say.
Tsunade wo Katsuyu. And i have yet to encounter an arguement from Tsunade supporters that convinces me othervise.

I explained several times why the gentle fist is useless against her and why Neji will have a hard time to even touch her. No one was able to counter my arguments.

 

[Takos]

Gentle Fist would prove useless against a skilled Sharingan user such as Kakashi.
You know, Neji has to land a hit for it to work.
In terms of taijutsu, Kakashi is a league above Obito who kept up with both Guy and Naruto. Obviously, that's current Kakashi, but part 1 was no pushover, either. While Neji's attack pattern (which is a part of what taijutsu consists of) is better than Kakashi's, he's both slower and has worse reflexes, so I don't know where the notion that Neji's taijutsu is overall better than Kakashi's comes from.

Not to mention this is only taijutsu. Neji is skilled in it, but on the other hand, has no remarkable ninjutsu or genjutsu whatsoever.
Kakashi has both, and developed to quite an extent.

Overall, part 1 Kakashi wins easy to mid difficulty against Neji.
As I said, do a kid Kakashi vs Neji scenario - that would actually make Neji have some chances of winning.

 

[paratise]

Gentle Fist would prove useless against a skilled Sharingan user such as Kakashi.
You know, Neji has to land a hit for it to work.

Which he can lay on; considering he could do it against Lee, a master of taijutsu as demonstrated in databook, has higher stats in taijutsu/strength/stamina-on par with speed- with Kakashi, and has better feats of taijutsu. Not to mention he gets his training from the bests.

In terms of taijutsu, Kakashi is a league above Obito who kept up with both Guy and Naruto. Obviously, that's current Kakashi, but part 1 was no pushover, either.

Yeah that's part 2 feat, also Obito in kamui dimention is different from Obito outside of it. Against Guy and Naruto he had to phase through the attacks while Gai is not getting tagged, he did not do it inside of dimention.

While Neji's attack pattern (which is a part of what taijutsu consists of) is better than Kakashi's, he's both slower and has worse reflexes, so I don't know where the notion that Neji's taijutsu is overall better than Kakashi's comes from.

No actually, Neji's reflexes are not pushover at all. Even at part 1 he showcased this:

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Also he reacted everything Lee threw at him during their sparrings so Kakashi's taijutsu is no problem; his byakugan's 359 degrees nullifies possible sneak attack attempts.

Not to mention this is only taijutsu. Neji is skilled in it, but on the other hand, has no remarkable ninjutsu or genjutsu whatsoever.
Kakashi has both, and developed to quite an extent.

One sharp skill is enough.
None of the long ranged ninjutsu Kakashi have shown in part 1 is getting pass

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, byakugan which can see through genjutsu combined with chakra control counters genjutsu.
Oh and

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is what happened to Kakashi after using some sharingan in part 1. He has no hopes for outlasting.

Overall, part 1 Kakashi wins easy to mid difficulty against Neji.

Easy to mid diff? That's an exaggaration even for a Kakashi supporter.

As I said, do a kid Kakashi vs Neji scenario - that would actually make Neji have some chances of winning.

And this is where i think whether i should ever bother or not.

 

[~Sky~]

I wish we had more to go off of for Hyuga's other than DB scores, but alas, the actual feats we have from them is limited.

Part 1 Kakashi doesn't really have much going for him guys, Hiashi does indeed take this one.

 

[copyninKakashi]

Kakashi take this battle high dif, hard fight, but Kakashi is smart, he will not go in direct attack, he will use his deadly tricks. Its risky, but he must fight in taijutsu combat, because range jutsus will do nothing because of Kaiten, Genjutsu is useless, Ao told this - because of his Byakugan he managed to destroy 4th Mizukage's Genjutsu.

 

[Takos]

Which he can lay on; considering he could do it against Lee, a master of taijutsu as demonstrated in databook, has higher stats in taijutsu/strength/stamina-on par with speed- with Kakashi, and has better feats of taijutsu. Not to mention he gets his training from the bests.

DB stats are good to see what a character can do best and worst, but they fail when it comes to comparing characters. For example, both Kurenai and Itachi have a five in genjutsu, which doesn't mean Kurenai's is as good as Itachi's.
Stats are good for establishing that someone's taijutsu is better than his ninjutsu or stuff like this. Not much else.

Yeah that's part 2 feat, also Obito in kamui dimention is different from Obito outside of it. Against Guy and Naruto he had to phase through the attacks while Gai is not getting tagged, he did not do it inside of dimention.

A valid point. However, Obito was still keeping up with Naruto's and Guy's speed, for example when he used the gunbai's wire to trap Naruto. That's a taijutsu feat and in case it doesn't really matter in which dimension this happened.

No actually, Neji's reflexes are not pushover at all. Even at part 1 he showcased this:

Spoiler

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Also he reacted everything Lee threw at him during their sparrings so Kakashi's taijutsu is no problem; his byakugan's 359 degrees nullifies possible sneak attack attempts.

I didn't say they were pushover, which doesn't mean they are as good as Kakashi's.
Being able to counter Lee doesn't prove much, because Naruto commented on how Kakashi's taijutsu, who was not even going all out on Naruto and Sakura, was better than Lee's.

One sharp skill is enough.
None of the long ranged ninjutsu Kakashi have shown in part 1 is getting pass

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, byakugan which can see through genjutsu combined with chakra control counters genjutsu.
Oh and

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is what happened to Kakashi after using some sharingan in part 1. He has no hopes for outlasting.

One important thing you need to realize is that Kakashi didn't collapse from having his Sharingan uncovered, he did because he used it extensively not only to improve perception, but also to cast a very advanced genjutsu on Zabuza (Zabuza didn't even know he was genjutsu'd, that's almost like Kotoamatsukami, only allowing for less control over the enemy). If he was not to do so against Neji, he wouldn't collapse nearly as fast, though I agree that Neji's stamina would outlast him.

Speaking of which, does Neji have any counter to such genjutsu? Being able to see through genjutsu doesn't mean you can counter it. An example: Naruto caught in Itachi's genjutsu in Gaara rescue arc knew perfectly well it was genjutsu. Still, he couldn't break it. Not to mention the famous case of Kakashi caught in Tsukyomi.

Easy to mid diff? That's an exaggaration even for a Kakashi supporter.

You've raised points valid at least to some extent, I'll give you that. It will be mid difficulty.

 

[Champ]

Hiashi. His Kaiten were much bigger than Neji's.

 

[shelke]

Haishi has fairly good chances.

 

[paratise]

DB stats are good to see what a character can do best and worst, but they fail when it comes to comparing characters. For example, both Kurenai and Itachi have a five in genjutsu, which doesn't mean Kurenai's is as good as Itachi's.
Stats are good for establishing that someone's taijutsu is better than his ninjutsu or stuff like this. Not much else.

I was mostly referring to how he bested Lee, who is a better taijutsu user than Kakashi in almost everyway.

A valid point. However, Obito was still keeping up with Naruto's and Guy's speed, for example when he used the gunbai's wire to trap Naruto. That's a taijutsu feat and in case it doesn't really matter in which dimension this happened.

Thanks for reminding that Obito also lacked the weaponary he was professional with in kamui dimention, his CQC became less component because is that along with other factor.

I didn't say they were pushover, which doesn't mean they are as good as Kakashi's.
Being able to counter Lee doesn't prove much, because Naruto commented on how Kakashi's taijutsu, who was not even going all out on Naruto and Sakura, was better than Lee's.

Naruto have only seen part 1 Lee fighting in chuunin exams, which is well below part 2 Lee; who grow gradually with Neji.

One important thing you need to realize is that Kakashi didn't collapse from having his Sharingan uncovered, he did because he used it extensively not only to improve perception, but also to cast a very advanced genjutsu on Zabuza (Zabuza didn't even know he was genjutsu'd, that's almost like Kotoamatsukami, only allowing for less control over the enemy). If he was not to do so against Neji, he wouldn't collapse nearly as fast, though I agree that Neji's stamina would outlast him.

I knew Kakashi used some abilities of sharingan in Zabuza battle, which still have costed to him.

Speaking of which, does Neji have any counter to such genjutsu? Being able to see through genjutsu doesn't mean you can counter it. An example: Naruto caught in Itachi's genjutsu in Gaara rescue arc knew perfectly well it was genjutsu. Still, he couldn't break it. Not to mention the famous case of Kakashi caught in Tsukyomi.

-Byakugan can see through chakra distribution, which is the first step of realising genjutsu:

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Even the guy with stolen byakugan saw through genjutsu:

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Neji is talented in chakra control to break it:

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^part 1 Kakashi have not shown high level of genjutsu anyway, also this a counter for genjutsu:
-fighting with closed eyes, Neji can do it due to x-ray like vision, he is more than likely to have intel on sharingan genjutsu since he is Gai's student.

You've raised points valid at least to some extent, I'll give you that. It will be mid difficulty.

Still thinking kid Kakashi vs shippuden Neji is legit though?

 

[Takos]

I was mostly referring to how he bested Lee, who is a better taijutsu user than Kakashi in almost everyway.

Almost, because he still doesn't have Sharingan perception and Kakashi's reflexes.
Kakashi's reflexes were comparable to Minato, as seen when they reacted to Zetsu taking over Obito. Still, I understand this is not Part 1 Kakashi's feat. The point is, we have little to work with, because Kakashi had only, in fact, two battles in Part 1.

Thanks for reminding that Obito also lacked the weaponary he was professional with in kamui dimention, his CQC became less component because is that along with other factor.

You said it as if Obito's whole taijutsu was based on a gunbai. The fact of the matter, however, is that Obito only started using a gunbai in this war. Don't act as if taking away that weapon suddenly made his taijutsu worse than Kakashi.

Naruto have only seen part 1 Lee fighting in chuunin exams, which is well below part 2 Lee; who grow gradually with Neji.

But Kakashi was still going easy on them, so all we know is that Kakashi not going all out is better at taijutsu than part 1 Lee.

I knew Kakashi used some abilities of sharingan in Zabuza battle, which still have costed to him.

My point is, if Kakashi didn't bother with these Sharingan tricks against Zabuza, he would have lasted much longer.

-Byakugan can see through chakra distribution, which is the first step of realising genjutsu:

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Even the guy with stolen byakugan saw through genjutsu:

Spoiler

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Neji is talented in chakra control to break it:

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^part 1 Kakashi have not shown high level of genjutsu anyway, also this a counter for genjutsu:
-fighting with closed eyes, Neji can do it due to x-ray like vision, he is more than likely to have intel on sharingan genjutsu since he is Gai's student.

That's possible. Not a proof in any way, but then again, I have no proof that Kakashi's genjutsu would work on Neji.
What you said about Kakashi not having any high level genjutsu in part 1 is what I find far from truth. As I have pointed out, a genjutsu used on Zabuza was quite advanced, differing from Kotoamatsukami only in limited control over the opponent.

Still thinking kid Kakashi vs shippuden Neji is legit though?

Pre-Sharingan Kakashi nope, and 2T Kakashi neither. 3T Kakashi would, however, be capable of pulling a win, though Neji has higher chances.

 

[Curse Mark]

Prob kakashi

 

[Avinash012]

Whoah there; there is nothing like "whether part 1 or 2" when there are tremendous amount of differences im scaling esp. in power level.
Gai and Kakashi grow and change in time, and the contexts of battle are:
-unknown (the known one is a rock-Paper-scissors)
-not going all out
-No intent to kill
-known as about equal (49 to 50 or something like that)
Don't even known why they are brought as feats. Also Gai does not have a defense in base unlike Neji to block long range attacks, while Kakashi is using several ranges of attack he has one -short- range (in base). Neji's defense would not allow anything part 1 Kakashi shown in his mid-long ranged arsenal, which renders battle in close combat. Not to mention Kakashi's stamina issues in part 1.

Btw, Neji have always handled Lee's taijutsu, with little effort i might add. Since him and Lee grow gradually, he still handled base Lee(who is above Kakashi)'s taijutsu. Oh and He got trained my best taijutsu user in manga (Gai), along with his uncle.

The hell is this list has anything to do with the argument? Is this going to change the fact that Kakashi and Guy are compatable to each other in terms of strength and Kakashi should be able handel his taijutsu to be on par with some like him? Neji never showed something that is fast enough to fool a sharingan, this dude struggled to keep up with kid KCM Naruto and Sasuke with Sharingan owned a better version of Naruto and showed better reflexes so I can't see Neji winning this and his defence ain't going to help him much longer.

 

[Draegod]

Kakashi wins. He was the strongest jounin alongside Gai even in part1

Hiashi isn't a Joinin nor participates in missions like Kakashi them. This war (for their life) is the only thing the leader of the clan participated in.

I wish we had more to go off of for Hyuga's other than DB scores, but alas, the actual feats we have from them is limited.

Part 1 Kakashi doesn't really have much going for him guys, Hiashi does indeed take this one.

You just know nothing on them. They have a shit load of feats.

Haishi has fairly good chances.

Shelke saying this???? It's super official that Hiashi wins now! (he hates hyugas for the cluesless ones)

The hell is this list has anything to do with the argument? Is this going to change the fact that Kakashi and Guy are compatable to each other in terms of strength and Kakashi should be able handel his taijutsu to be on par with some like him? Neji never showed something that is fast enough to fool a sharingan, this dude struggled to keep up with kid KCM Naruto and Sasuke with Sharingan owned a better version of Naruto and showed better reflexes so I can't see Neji winning this and his defence ain't going to help him much longer.

Hype? Hype is hype! Don't know if your arguing hiashi or neji. Either way Neji beats part one kakashi and Hiashi defeats current with not Kamui. Feel like going at it for the first time ever bruh?

 

[madvictory]

Da hell? Hiashi is a fodder and Kakashi is Kage-level. Hell, even Anbu-Kakashi when he was a teen would match Hiashi.

 

[Haizaki]

Da hell? Hiashi is a fodder and Kakashi is Kage-level. Hell, even Anbu-Kakashi when he was a teen would match Hiashi.

Fanboy alert...Anbu-kakashi would match hiashi..lool please stop this

 

[TheEvilOne]

You just know nothing on them. They have a shit load of feats.
?

They are all chuunin-jounin level feats. They have no Kage level feats.

 

[Draegod]

They are all chuunin-jounin level feats. They have no Kage level feats.

Only ninjas to defend giant juubi hands that sent 2 perfect BM jin's flying...
Only ninja who had enough force and chakra to send a Giant juubi hand backwards.

DO you not know anything about force and the properties behind it????? Reread the first two till you get it... Not Kage level feat? Sure what ever you say Chica. Keep Fighting the Good fight...