[VS] Pain vs Jiraya&Orochimaru

[Mellanoma]

At First I thought the Sanin could win with edo high difficulty but now im favoring pain even more now.

The Problem with this fight is that people keep basing their strategies off of individual pains and not realizing Pain has full intel on his opponents as well.


All 6 pains is near impossible to beat if they are all 100% fully functional. This is something never showcased by Pain
They all work together meaning 6 different fields of view / 4 of the 6 are highly effective in combat
5 of 6 have insane abilities for combat.

The only USELESS pain is Human Path however this path is still effective due to the extra eyes it can use.
I will make a thread showcasing ALL Pain's abilities.

Pain Arc SM Naruto is not stronger than SM Jiraiya, and he damn sure isn't stronger than both SM Jiraiya and Orichimaru together.



SM Jiraiya for the most part gets hard countered by Preta Path, which isn't an issue with Orochimaru around. All of his snake attack variations and Kusanagi can't be absorbed. With Mayfly (and clones), Orochimaru gets past Pains defensive efforts easily, and takes out Preta.

Once Preta is taken out, SM Jiraiya legit wreaks havoc. All of the weaker paths will easily be picked off, and Deva will be overwhelmed dealing with Jiraiya's ninjutsu arsenal and Orochimaru surprise attacks.

CST is avoided by going underground with a large snake summon.
CT is countered with Yumi Numa at Deva's feet. He can't use any other technique while CT is activated.

Not sure why peopel keep stating Preta and Deva are the only effective pains when this is not true

Animal Path can reverse summon pains at will

You must be registered for see images

Animal Path and Naraka Path could sit inside the chameleon cloaked simply reverse summoning and repairing pains as they get attacked.


Asura path is a HARD Counter for Orochimaru. He has missiles and lasers which will shred Oro's Snakes. And he has the physical capability to withstand any snake bites or constriction abilities Oro can throw at it. This is proven when Asura Path restrained Killer Bee



Keep in mind each pain is 1 mind with different angles and visions.

Deva imo can easily dispatch Mu or atleast force him to split nullifying Jinton

 

[Forbidden Technique]

At First I thought the Sanin could win with edo high difficulty but now im favoring pain even more now.

The Problem with this fight is that people keep basing their strategies off of individual pains and not realizing Pain has full intel on his opponents as well.


All 6 pains is near impossible to beat if they are all 100% fully functional. This is something never showcased by Pain
They all work together meaning 6 different fields of view / 4 of the 6 are highly effective in combat
5 of 6 have insane abilities for combat.

The only USELESS pain is Human Path however this path is still effective due to the extra eyes it can use.
I will make a thread showcasing ALL Pain's abilities.





Not sure why peopel keep stating Preta and Deva are the only effective pains when this is not true

Animal Path can reverse summon pains at will

You must be registered for see images

Animal Path and Naraka Path could sit inside the chameleon cloaked simply reverse summoning and repairing pains as they get attacked.


Asura path is a HARD Counter for Orochimaru. He has missiles and lasers which will shred Oro's Snakes. And he has the physical capability to withstand any snake bites or constriction abilities Oro can throw at it. This is proven when Asura Path restrained Killer Bee



Keep in mind each pain is 1 mind with different angles and visions.

Deva imo can easily dispatch Mu or atleast force him to split nullifying Jinton

Lol Naraka Path that was taking out by Konohamaru? And the Chameleon that Ma/Pa sensed out and one shotted in cannon? Not to mention Orochimaru's snakes and their sensing as well. Both of these are near non factors in this match.

Asura Path isn't even touching Orochimaru, who can travel underground and always guard himself with snake summons and Rashomon gates. It easily gets taken out by SM Jiraiya just like SM Naruto did. Please do better than this.

Bringing up Muu only makes it a low difficulty match on a bad day.

 

[Mellanoma]

Lol Naraka Path that was taking out by Konohamaru? And the Chameleon that Ma/Pa sensed out and one shotted in cannon? Not to mention Orochimaru's snakes and their sensing as well. Both of these are near non factors in this match.

Asura Path isn't even touching Orochimaru, who can travel underground and always guard himself with snake summons and Rashomon gates. It easily gets taken out by SM Jiraiya just like SM Naruto did. Please do better than this.

Bringing up Muu only makes it a low difficulty match on a bad day.

The only Purpose Naraka would serve is Sealing captured EDOs and repairing the dead pains.

Asura path doesn't have to touch Orochimaru only counter his arsenal which he is easily capable of.

As I said before Pain has full intel on this team as well.
With full intel Pain would know to get rid of Ma or Pa and Mu.

With Pain's ability to use all 6 paths simultaneously this allows him to attack and counter in perfect sync which is something team sannin can't do.

Universal Pull can be used on two different targets simultaneously meaning both Mu / Ma or Pa can be pulled in allowing the other paths to quickly dispatch them.

While Mu / Pa or Ma are being pulled in Animal Path can summon all it's summons to keep both Jiraiya and Orochimaru busy as they have nothing in their arsenal that can quickly dispatch ALL of Animal path's summons.

Preta, Naraka and Asura can all be used as counter/defensive pains while they cover Deva and await mu/pa to come in.


Its 100% synced attacks all happening at one time because its only 1 person that can view he battle field from 6+ different view points with rinnengan.

 

[Beans2]

SM Jiraiya for the most part gets hard countered by Preta Path, which isn't an issue with Orochimaru around. All of his snake attack variations and Kusanagi can't be absorbed. With Mayfly (and clones), Orochimaru gets past Pains defensive efforts easily, and takes out Preta.

Once Preta is taken out, SM Jiraiya legit wreaks havoc. All of the weaker paths will easily be picked off, and Deva will be overwhelmed dealing with Jiraiya's ninjutsu arsenal and Orochimaru surprise attacks.

CST is avoided by going underground with a large snake summon.
CT is countered with Yumi Numa at Deva's feet. He can't use any other technique while CT is activated.

I am very skeptical but will not argue in Pain's favor right now

 

[MightGai]

Won't work... Pain has full intel as well

You must be registered for see images

Unlike with Naruto, he has to deal with Orochimaru, Edo's and Jiraiya's summons at the very minimum. As you said on another post, cannot base strategy just on individuals. The only good thing about pain was his element of suprise, once Naruto with mid-intel figured the rest, they fell quite easily one by one. So, is anyone implying that the team with the edos and summons is somehow weaker than SM Naruto?

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Orochimaru shatters puppets with kusanagi and uses a million snake walls to eat and slice with kusanagi blade clones. Jiraiya can prep while oro protects him with snake wall. Frog song trash boys the bodies and rips thier throats.

Jboy and oro for the win.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

The only Purpose Naraka would serve is Sealing captured EDOs and repairing the dead pains.

Asura path doesn't have to touch Orochimaru only counter his arsenal which he is easily capable of.

As I said before Pain has full intel on this team as well.
With full intel Pain would know to get rid of Ma or Pa and Mu.

With Pain's ability to use all 6 paths simultaneously this allows him to attack and counter in perfect sync which is something team sannin can't do.

Universal Pull can be used on two different targets simultaneously meaning both Mu / Ma or Pa can be pulled in allowing the other paths to quickly dispatch them.

While Mu / Pa or Ma are being pulled in Animal Path can summon all it's summons to keep both Jiraiya and Orochimaru busy as they have nothing in their arsenal that can quickly dispatch ALL of Animal path's summons.

Preta, Naraka and Asura can all be used as counter/defensive pains while they cover Deva and await mu/pa to come in.


Its 100% synced attacks all happening at one time because its only 1 person that can view he battle field from 6+ different view points with rinnengan.

And it will not be able to serve that purpose, because it is a fodder tier character in a high caliber match. Hiding in the Chameleon is futile as I already explained, everyone can sense it's location.

This isn't the same scenario as it was with Naruto. Ma/Pa are fused with Jiraiya's body, so if Deva is using Universal Pull, it will be on Jiraiya. He pulls Jiraiya in, and Ma/Pa uses Frog Song to paralyze Deva or any Path that tries to get near them. Meanwhile, Orochimaru comes from behind Deva and spears him.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Deva is either taken out or is forced to cancel Universal Pull and counter Orochimaru, but then he has SM Jiraiya coming at him as well. Lol, Mu just splits himself and assassinates the Paths one by one while going invisible. Trying to bring up the numbers game is useless when Orochimaru and Jiraiya have plenty of summons of there own, and can create bunshins. None of the paths are stopping Orochimaru from doing literally do anything he wants with clones and mayfly.

 

[Eng nawashi]

Pain wins Mid diff .None of the other team can counter strong enough ST(CST isnt needed)crushing them down on the ground .if oro went underground by his snakes then pein would simply wait until he shows up again .people need to realize that hiding while not being able to send your attacks at the enemy isn't a valid counter to any tech in this manga .CT can also be used to trap all of them (bar oro)or it can be simply dropped down on them after being fully formed. Again Nagato doesn't need to use huge CT so he may be able to use it with the other paths activated .

 

[blazekev90]

Are people arguing in favor of Pein here? Lol maybe if Edo were restricted but with those conditions, it’s a low diff fight.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Are people arguing in favor of Pein here? Lol maybe if Edo were restricted but with those conditions, it’s a low diff fight.

What? :lol Pain would shit on the duo if he’s bloodlusted.

 

[Zexion~]

I love when people argue against Pain like the paths are 1v1 their opponents.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

^^ use a bit of common sense instead of sounding brain dead, orochimaru could cut pains up with K blade no doubt about it. Jiraiya could get enough prep time by then.

 

[Edogawa]

Pain wins Mid diff .None of the other team can counter strong enough ST(CST isnt needed)crushing them down on the ground .if oro went underground by his snakes then pein would simply wait until he shows up again .people need to realize that hiding while not being able to send your attacks at the enemy isn't a valid counter to any tech in this manga .CT can also be used to trap all of them (bar oro)or it can be simply dropped down on them after being fully formed. Again Nagato doesn't need to use huge CT so he may be able to use it with the other paths activated .

How's Orochimaru getting out of CT? If you're going to say Mayfly is a counter, then you're mistaken. Mayfly is merely merging with the environment, which is pulled by CT and held on the air in a form of a mini-planet permanently. He'll only escape via Reverse Summoning, but that would be forfeit.

And yes, Chibaku Tensei can be used with other Paths activated. It's a fact. Edo Nagato used CT with Asura Path, Animal Path and Naraka Path activated.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Chibaku tensei cant pull living beings. Oro can use shadow snake hands and get grip somewhere in far away ground and swing out of CT like spiderman. Nagatos CT would be wasted along with his pathetic lifeforce.

 

[Zexion~]

^^ use a bit of common sense instead of sounding brain dead, orochimaru could cut pains up with K blade no doubt about it. Jiraiya could get enough prep time by then.

Lolol no, the supposed "blade that can cut anything" has been shown to cut NOTHING tired of its hype lol. Its never touching any path regardless as his skill with it is negligible.

 

[Edogawa]

Lolol no, the supposed "blade that can cut anything" has been shown to cut NOTHING tired of its hype lol. Its never touching any path regardless as his skill with it is negligible.

That garbage sword couldn't even put scratches on a monkey. Not only the black rods can extend just like Kusanagi sword, but they have better piercing feats; Kusanagi failed to pierce V2 Tailed Beast cloak, whereas the black rods pierced V2 6 Tailed Utakata and Gyuki. They could also pierce Chakra point network and subdue movements. The black rods are perfect for subduing Orochimaru and his Edo Tenseis like a bunch of animals.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Kusanagi works on 5/6 of the pain bodies. Asura is the only thing that it won’t kill because of its durability feats

 

[Mellanoma]

And it will not be able to serve that purpose, because it is a fodder tier character in a high caliber match. Hiding in the Chameleon is futile as I already explained, everyone can sense it's location.

How can you call Naraka path fodder when it was was the reason SM jiraiya was fodderized? lol

The only person that can sense the Chameleon is Shima due to her ability to sense:

You must be registered for see images

This is something Pain knows as well as he has full intel. So to state that hiding in Chameleon is bad because "Everyone" can sense it is false.

This isn't the same scenario as it was with Naruto. Ma/Pa are fused with Jiraiya's body, so if Deva is using Universal Pull, it will be on Jiraiya. He pulls Jiraiya in, and Ma/Pa uses Frog Song to paralyze Deva or any Path that tries to get near them. Meanwhile,

Good, Deva can simply use 1 arm to pull Jiraiya ma/pa
Use the other arm to pull Mu
Deva canonically used both hands to perform a single jutsu on multiple targets.

You must be registered for see images

Furthermore, people tend to forget when Deva uses his ability. The user is paralyzed as well with the exception of 6 tail Naruto which overpowered it.

You must be registered for see images

Frog Song requires tremendous time and prep. This is why Jiraiya hid while the pain's searched for them. This time, Pain has full intel so he knows what's coming.

Orochimaru comes from behind Deva and spears him.

How is orochimaru going to sneak up on someone with 6 different view points working together?

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Deva is either taken out or is forced to cancel Universal Pull and counter Orochimaru, but then he has SM Jiraiya coming at him as well. Lol,

Animal path can summon all it's summons simultaneously which is enough to hold 3rd Raikage and Orochimaru back

Deva Path can pull or push two targets simultaneously meaning he can pull both Jiraiya and Mu neutralizing their ability to counter while the other paths prepare to counter/finish. EVERY person caught in Deva's ability was paralyzed in flight with the exception of naruto who used raw chakra as limbs.

Mu just splits himself and assassinates the Paths one by one while going invisible.

How is this possible when Rinnegan can see Mu while he invisible?

Trying to bring up the numbers game is useless when Orochimaru and Jiraiya have plenty of summons of there own, and can create bunshins. None of the paths are stopping Orochimaru from doing literally do anything he wants with clones and mayfly.

It's not just about the numbers. it's the application of abilities as well.

You're not factoring in that Pain is literally 1 mind allowing him to fight and use abilities simultaneously as one. Most arguments are based on 1 on 1 bases but this isn't a one on one.


Nothing is stopping him from using Asura,deva,animal,preta abilities ALL at once which he canonically did when he attacked the leaf village. No amount of teamwork in the world can get close to such perfection of tactics.

My argument on the battle isn't about step by step performed by each path individually. It's about ALL paths using ALL abilities at the same time as well as coordinating movements simultaneously.


What I stated before is based on what Pain would do at the start of the fight all at the same time:

1) Animal path summons all summons and immediately attacks Orochimaru and 3rd Raikage

While

2) Deva Path Bansho tenin's Jiraiya (Pulling ma/pa) and Mu which negates Jiraiya and Mu (Unless he splits which removes Dust release)

While

3) Asura and Preta prepare for counter attack / assaulting Jiraiya and Mu

This isn't a 3 step move but 1 step performed at the exact same time.


If Animal path couldn't summon all it's summons I would favor the sannins more but the fact is Both Naraka and Animal path can sit in the chameleon reverse summoning and repairing pains IF they are infact injured.

People constantly bring up SM Naruto vs Pain fight but forget the 2 more critical parts of that fight:

Naruto had full intel and pain had 0 intel
Deva Path couldn't use it's abilities.
If Deva could have used his abilities Naruto would have been zero diff'd

 

[Eng nawashi]

How's Orochimaru getting out of CT? If you're going to say Mayfly is a counter, then you're mistaken. Mayfly is merely merging with the environment, which is pulled by CT and held on the air in a form of a mini-planet permanently. He'll only escape via Reverse Summoning, but that would be forfeit.

And yes, Chibaku Tensei can be used with other Paths activated. It's a fact. Edo Nagato used CT with Asura Path, Animal Path and Naraka Path activated.

I thought that After CT is formed, the attracting force of it stops so Oro would be able to slip free .I also forgot that Muu's existence would make CT almost ineffective in this fight.
I am really not sure if CT can be used with other paths or not.Edo nagato stopped all other paths before actually activating the force of CT orb but not sure if that is requirement or just because they were no longer needed .it is all about how much power needed for CT and if he can still control other paths while outputting that much power for CT .at worst he can keep only preta and deva activated and deactivate the rest which I think to be possible but would slightly decrease the maximum achievable force of his CT /ST.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Lmfao, asura's best feat is surviving a raikiri pierce lol which wouldnt matter when kusanagi can cut through the entire terrain after extending it infinitely. The only reason it failed to cut through the kyuubi cloak is because it was covered with naruto's blood. Otherwise the hype it can cut anything wouldnt even exist, considering tailed beasts existed in the time of kusanagi. Underestimating enma cutting feat is going to get you nowhere son, enma is an indestructible staff, yet kusanagi could scratch it, proving it has infinite piercing power, just that thier are certain conditions in which it can use its full potential.