The greatest part of Pain's strategy is the mystery behind the different path and abilities.
If you have enough support + knowledge on his abilities then the chances of winning are severely increased.
This was showcased when SM Naruto fought Pain.
If SM jiraiya and Orochimaru have full intel then their only challenge is getting pass Deva and CT as they know what each pain is capable of and can counter accordingly.
If you REMOVE full intel on Pain's abilities I think the match would be more interesting and potentially could go high diff for either side.
Team 2 takes it, especially with 2 edos. And even faster if they split up the load, oro and jiraiya aren’t slouches by any means and should be able to take out a few paths each
A Naruto who just learned SM was enough to fight the 6POP competitively. SM Jiraiya and Orochimaru, especially with full intel, are enough as it is to win this match. Additionally adding two Edo Kage makes it unbalanced, they would all low diff.
Team wins mid diff at worst. Mu vaporizes all paths except preta and may be deva if he can somehow repel jinton. 3rd raikage takes care of preta. Deva can't beat them alone, he'll be cornered in no time. Heck jinton probably counters CT as well since they have intel.
Team wins mid diff at worst. Mu vaporizes all paths except preta and may be deva if he can somehow repel jinton. 3rd raikage takes care of preta. Deva can't beat them alone, he'll be cornered in no time. Heck jinton probably counters CT as well since they have intel.
Pain has intel on Orochimaru's ET so he would know that Mu poses the greatest threat.
For example Mu can be easily countered and potentially killed with a very quick use of
universal pull
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and Naraka Path
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Even if he can't make proper use of Naraka to finish Mu he could always use Deva abilities to cancel out Mu's jinton prep.
If Deva is able to take flight with animal path's Bird 90% of the remaining people's arsenals become useless ESPECIALLY 3rd Raikage who could sit there for 3 days fighting 10,000 Cerberus dogs
While I believe the Team with Edo will win I dont think it will be Med Diff. Pain is way too versatile
Pain has intel on Orochimaru's ET so he would know that Mu poses the greatest threat.
For example Mu can be easily countered and potentially killed with a very quick use of
universal pull
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and Naraka Path
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Even if he can't make proper use of Naraka to finish Mu he could always use Deva abilities to cancel out Mu's jinton prep.
If Deva is able to take flight with animal path's Bird 90% of the remaining people's arsenals become useless ESPECIALLY 3rd Raikage who could sit there for 3 days fighting 10,000 Cerberus dogs
While I believe the Team with Edo will win I dont think it will be Med Diff. Pain is way too versatile
You are right, pain is versatile but so is team. Flying and going away will only make things worse for pain as jiraya will summon sage toads and sound genjutsu will end it. Jiraya's fast needle attack can also be useful to injure the bird by hitting its wings. Orochimaru's kusanagi can end bird. Mu will go invisible straight away, and there is nothing pain can do to stop him as long as jiraya and orochimaru are around. Heck orochimaru won't die even with a single CST provided he has oral rebirth.
So yes pain is versatile but team is far more versatile. Toad army dealt with summon really well. And like i said, other than preta and deva, other paths are irrelevant in this battle. And preta gets dealt with by 3rd raikage and deva gets dealt with by others.
You are right, pain is versatile but so is team. Flying and going away will only make things worse for pain as jiraya will summon sage toads and sound genjutsu will end it. Jiraya's fast needle attack can also be useful to injure the bird by hitting its wings. Orochimaru's kusanagi can end bird. Mu will go invisible straight away, and there is nothing pain can do to stop him as long as jiraya and orochimaru are around. Heck orochimaru won't die even with a single CST provided he has oral rebirth.
So yes pain is versatile but team is far more versatile. Toad army dealt with summon really well. And like i said, other than preta and deva, other paths are irrelevant in this battle. And preta gets dealt with by 3rd raikage and deva gets dealt with by others.
I think you are really underestimating the capabilities of Pain's paths. Especially when they have full intel.
Jiraiya's needles are not taking down pain's birds. They BARELY harmed Orochimaru and he bit into them. Unless you have feats showing they are durable enough to take down a summon im not buying that.
Orochimaru's Kusanagi couldn't even harm 4 tail Naruto. I doubt it's doing any damage in this fight unless it's perceiving a path directly (Other than Asura).
Mu's invisibility is useless as Rinnegan can see him. My original point of Universal pull working on Mu still stands. The only counter he has for this is Splitting which restricts him from using Dust release.
You stated the paths were irrelevant. Ill explain why they aren't.
Asura path has the strength to canonically restrain both KCM Naruto and Killer Bee simultaneously WITH Naruto holding it back with his KCM arms. As well as additional lasers, missiles and appendages. Say what you like but anything strong enough to restrain two of the strongest characters in the series sub Otosuki and Riku ages is enough to contend with 3rd Raikage. Especially with the help of the non stop splitting Cerberus and shared vision
Animal Path can summon all summons simultaneously which was:
1)Defensive panda
2) Splitting Cerberus
3) Chameleon
4) Rhino
The Summons alone are enough to keep Oro and Jiraiya busy. Canonically SM jiraiya and SM Naruto struggled against the summons and Jiraiya was completely useless vs the Aerial assault of the Bird.
Naraka path is the most critical as it can repair the other paths as well as seal the EDO.
Human path is the only useless one in the fight since it's only ability is mind reading.
Once again... Pain has full intel on his opponent just like they have full intel on him.
This means he knows the two greatest threats will be
Mu and Frog Song Genjutsu:
Just like they know the greatest threat for them will be Deva path and Naraka Path
Deva path in the first 5 seconds of this fight can end both Mu and Fukusaku with universal pull. He canonically ended Fukusaku with this strategy and captured Kakashi doing the same thing.
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I just don't see Med difficulty at worst in this fight. I favor High Diff either way for both sides.
You are right, pain is versatile but so is team. Flying and going away will only make things worse for pain as jiraya will summon sage toads and sound genjutsu will end it. Jiraya's fast needle attack can also be useful to injure the bird by hitting its wings. Orochimaru's kusanagi can end bird. Mu will go invisible straight away, and there is nothing pain can do to stop him as long as jiraya and orochimaru are around. Heck orochimaru won't die even with a single CST provided he has oral rebirth.
-Sound Genjutsu won't be effective on an open location. Not to mention Jiraiya's teammates will also be affected by it. But even with all this taken consideration, it won't work on Pain like it did before. It worked for the first time simply because he never thought Jiraiya could use Genjutsu, but he won't make the same mistake. Sound Genjutsu prep can be countered by Bansho Ten'n and black rod as it happened before. Or even if the Genjutsu was cast, Shinra Tensei would repel the sound waves elsewhere, as Temari did. [
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-Not sure why you think hair needles or Kusunagi sword will be relevant, when the bird can outmanoeuvre its reach.
-Mu's invisibility won't help him, when Rinnegan can see him perfectly. Not to mention there is Rain Tiger to detect him as well. Bansho Tenin and Human Path ends Mu literally, as he has no defensive arsenal.
-Pain doesn't need CST on these lots.
So yes pain is versatile but team is far more versatile. Toad army dealt with summon really well. And like i said, other than preta and deva, other paths are irrelevant in this battle. And preta gets dealt with by 3rd raikage and deva gets dealt with by others.
I don't think you understand what versatility actually means. The team is hardly versatile by definition; Mu and Jiraiya have almost non-existent defensive arsenal; Orochimaru's offensive arsenal, apart from Kusunagi sword, doesn't exist. Whereas the 6 Paths of Pain have tactical abilities, whether be on defence and offence, and perfect coordination combo from close to long range.
-Shinra Tensei would dismantle all of the toad and snake summons as it did before, [
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] then Animal Path can bring out its summon army. The dogs will exhaust all of the team's energy, as they have no way of putting it down. The chameleon can go invisible and use its tongue to restrain the 3rd Raikage, until Human Path or Naraka Path pull his soul out. If Mu goes to flight, the bird will take care of it.
-All of the paths are relevant here. You don't understand the combo and their abilities, so your statement was just out of ignorance.
I think you are really underestimating the capabilities of Pain's paths. Especially when they have full intel.
Jiraiya's needles are not taking down pain's birds. They BARELY harmed Orochimaru and he bit into them. Unless you have feats showing they are durable enough to take down a summon im not buying that.
Orochimaru's Kusanagi couldn't even harm 4 tail Naruto. I doubt it's doing any damage in this fight unless it's perceiving a path directly (Other than Asura).
Mu's invisibility is useless as Rinnegan can see him. My original point of Universal pull working on Mu still stands. The only counter he has for this is Splitting which restricts him from using Dust release.
You stated the paths were irrelevant. Ill explain why they aren't.
Asura path has the strength to canonically restrain both KCM Naruto and Killer Bee simultaneously WITH Naruto holding it back with his KCM arms. As well as additional lasers, missiles and appendages. Say what you like but anything strong enough to restrain two of the strongest characters in the series sub Otosuki and Riku ages is enough to contend with 3rd Raikage. Especially with the help of the non stop splitting Cerberus and shared vision
Animal Path can summon all summons simultaneously which was:
1)Defensive panda
2) Splitting Cerberus
3) Chameleon
4) Rhino
The Summons alone are enough to keep Oro and Jiraiya busy. Canonically SM jiraiya and SM Naruto struggled against the summons and Jiraiya was completely useless vs the Aerial assault of the Bird.
Naraka path is the most critical as it can repair the other paths as well as seal the EDO.
Human path is the only useless one in the fight since it's only ability is mind reading.
Once again... Pain has full intel on his opponent just like they have full intel on him.
This means he knows the two greatest threats will be
Mu and Frog Song Genjutsu:
Just like they know the greatest threat for them will be Deva path and Naraka Path
Deva path in the first 5 seconds of this fight can end both Mu and Fukusaku with universal pull. He canonically ended Fukusaku with this strategy and captured Kakashi doing the same thing.
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I just don't see Med difficulty at worst in this fight. I favor High Diff either way for both sides.
Naraka Path can stay out of danger by simply hiding inside the chameleon, then goes invisible. If Shima is taken out, the team have no way of getting to Naraka Path hiding inside the chameleon. But I agree with your first point; Oblivionx or anybody else doesn't understand the 6 Paths abilities, if he's going to say most aren't relevant.
-Sound Genjutsu won't be effective on an open location. Not to mention Jiraiya's teammates will also be affected by it. But even with all this taken consideration, it won't work on Pain like it did before. It worked for the first time simply because he never thought Jiraiya could use Genjutsu, but he won't make the same mistake. Sound Genjutsu prep can be countered by Bansho Ten'n and black rod as it happened before. Or even if the Genjutsu was cast, Shinra Tensei would repel the sound waves elsewhere, as Temari did. [
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-Not sure why you think hair needles or Kusunagi sword will be relevant, when the bird can outmanoeuvre its reach.
-Mu's invisibility won't help him, when Rinnegan can see him perfectly. Not to mention there is Rain Tiger to detect him as well. Bansho Tenin and Human Path ends Mu literally, as he has no defensive arsenal.
-Pain doesn't need CST on these lots.
I don't think you understand what versatility actually means. The team is hardly versatile by definition; Mu and Jiraiya have almost non-existent defensive arsenal; Orochimaru's offensive arsenal, apart from Kusunagi sword, doesn't exist. Whereas the 6 Paths of Pain have tactical abilities, whether be on defence and offence, and perfect coordination combo from close to long range.
-Shinra Tensei would dismantle all of the toad and snake summons as it did before, [
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] then Animal Path can bring out its summon army. The dogs will exhaust all of the team's energy, as they have no way of putting it down. The chameleon can go invisible and use its tongue to restrain the 3rd Raikage, until Human Path or Naraka Path pull his soul out. If Mu goes to flight, the bird will take care of it.
-All of the paths are relevant here. You don't understand the combo and their abilities, so your statement was just out of ignorance.
well i think you believe nagato can beat hashirama so i won't be debating this with you. Though i will point out a few things.
Ma and pa were about to use sound genjutsu in open area against pain so it is effective. And team can make sure pain doesn't kill toads before it is prepped especially if deva is far up in the sky.
ST can't repel sound as far as i know.
CST can only be used with no other paths around.
Bird was dodged by SM naruto effortlessly in anime, not sure about manga so it isn't as fast as you think.
Deva going way above on bird makes things easier for team as rest of the paths will only be easier to take care of.
BT will be death sentence for deva as mu can fire a jinton while being dragged and deva won't be able to use ST because of cool down. Though it is not sure if ST can even counter it as madara used preta to counter it. Plus you assumed human path will be free to be close to deva for this strategy.
toads can literally break all coordination of paths via that sand storm as they did alongside naruto except team has intel and can make sure to take out human path first.
Well there would be many more things too but jiraya one shot one of the paths on their first meeting with a kick. If he knew that human path could revive them, he would have taken him out first. Sorry to say but other paths are literally distractions other than preta and deva.
And you also think Hidan and Kakuzu can beat BM Killer Bee, so I'm not sure why you mentioned off-topic characters. Just felt I had to reply to the mistakes you made, that's all. You don't want to discuss, that's fine but no need to make yourself look like an ass.
Ma and pa were about to use sound genjutsu in open area against pain so it is effective. And team can make sure pain doesn't kill toads before it is prepped especially if deva is far up in the sky.
I know they were going to use it in an open area, but that doesn't even mean it will be as effective as in closed area, because in case you didn't know basic science, sound waves bounce off materials. If they're in an open area like this matchup's, the Genjutsu will take very long to paralyze their bodies, which can be intercepted by Shinra Tensei or any other means of attack. Not to mention the Genjutsu will also affect Jiraiya's team, so that strategy isn't working.
The Shinra Tensei that killed the toads require any prep time. Pain lifts his hand and kills the toads along with Jiraiya and Orochimaru, then the Edo Tensei's can be dealt with.
We're discussing what manga designs, not animation design so not sure why you would mention this. Let me put it this way: The bird is controlled by Nagato's Chakra, so it's superior to a natural bird. Sasuke's hawk could outmanoeuvre Danzo's Fuiton, so surely a bird manipulated by Chakra can do better. Not to mention if you want to bring up that Jiraiya's hair needles or Kusunagi sword can catch the bird, you need to bring up speed feats to backup your assertions.
Deva going way above on bird makes things easier for team as rest of the paths will only be easier to take care of.
BT will be death sentence for deva as mu can fire a jinton while being dragged and deva won't be able to use ST because of cool down. Though it is not sure if ST can even counter it as madara used preta to counter it. Plus you assumed human path will be free to be close to deva for this strategy.
Seeing as how Bansho Tenin's speed pull is faster than Jinton, that won't happen; if it did happen, Jinton will be intercepted by a black rod. After that, Mu will be drained from Jinton's large Chakra requirement, whereas Deva will just wait 5 sec recharge then replicates the same process. BT + Human Path combo = Mu's death.
toads can literally break all coordination of paths via that sand storm as they did alongside naruto except team has intel and can make sure to take out human path first.
Well there would be many more things too but jiraya one shot one of the paths on their first meeting with a kick. If he knew that human path could revive them, he would have taken him out first. Sorry to say but other paths are literally distractions other than preta and deva.
And you just confirmed that you don't know anything here. The path that revives is Naraka Path, Human Path is the one who reads mind and takes soul out. The fact you mixed them up means you shouldn't really post your opinion on this matchup, if you don't know what you're talking about. Go back and reread the manga, then you can share your opinion.
A Naruto who just learned SM was enough to fight the 6POP competitively. SM Jiraiya and Orochimaru, especially with full intel, are enough as it is to win this match. Additionally adding two Edo Kage makes it unbalanced, they would all low diff.
A Naruto who just learned SM was enough to fight the 6POP competitively. SM Jiraiya and Orochimaru, especially with full intel, are enough as it is to win this match. Additionally adding two Edo Kage makes it unbalanced, they would all low diff.
SM Jiraiya for the most part gets hard countered by Preta Path, which isn't an issue with Orochimaru around. All of his snake attack variations and Kusanagi can't be absorbed. With Mayfly (and clones), Orochimaru gets past Pains defensive efforts easily, and takes out Preta.
Once Preta is taken out, SM Jiraiya legit wreaks havoc. All of the weaker paths will easily be picked off, and Deva will be overwhelmed dealing with Jiraiya's ninjutsu arsenal and Orochimaru surprise attacks.
CST is avoided by going underground with a large snake summon.
CT is countered with Yumi Numa at Deva's feet. He can't use any other technique while CT is activated.
