Out of Tsunade, Minato and Sarutobi which Hokage struggled the most?

[Umari Senju]

Hashirama.

The ninja system was already in place for every other Hokage barring Tobirama. The others had to run it. Hashirama and Tobirama...and even Madara had to build it during an age where telling a stranger your clan name could, and most likely would, get you killed.

He also had to delegate the balance to power throughout the ninja world by delegating the possession of Bijuu. These were decisions that set into motion everything basically. That’s not easy stuff.

Not to say the other Kage didn’t have their own share of troubles maintaining that flawed system.

 

[The Paradox]

Hiruzen. He was so brainwashed by the elders and Danzo that so many horrible things happened in his reign as Hokage.

Let's start off with Danzo and Orochimaru. These two are obviously hiding something/dubious.. yet Hiruzen shrugged it off. He was supposed to be so smart, so intuitive like a lot of the Kage in general have been, but he still couldn't see through a fraction of what Danzo and Orochimaru were doing. Either that, or didn't think things would get out of hand. Which is a dumb move.

Not only this, but it appears that out of any other Hokage.. his reign brought the most conflict, isolation, and even war.

Then of course we get to the treatment of Naruto. Which I'm sure was thanks to the elder's input at the time. The way he was treated was horrid. He was just a child who didn't even know about the Kyuubi until he was 12. Totally unaware that he could lose himself at any point to this thing, not only that, but totally unaware as to why he got so much hate. There was no reason to segregate him like that. I know it's mostly for plot, but come on! That's horrible!

And finally we have the Uchiha. Even Tobirama probably wouldn't have gone that far. Plenty of Uchiha for decades had served the Leaf without question. It was only until they were shoved nearly outside the village and given a position that would get them hated/sideline them from real missions that they started to question what was going on and feel betrayed. Instead of hearing them out and fixing the issue, Hiruzen listened to Danzo and the elders that said "nah you know what? let's just get rid of them and not bother". Really? One of the most powerful/THE most powerful clan in the whole village, possibly the world with how they're set up (ok that's arguable).. A clan so powerful that has lent it's men, women, and children to fight for the village for decades and given you the upper hand numerous times in war/missions.. is just going to be tossed into a mass grave? Horrible.

So. Brainwashed. A lot of hate brewing from other villages, lands, and even his own people. Wars/attacks on numerous occasion. S-Ranked criminals allowed to walk around freely. Condoned abuse of a previous Hokage's son. Massacre/genocide of a prominent/crucial clan in the village. Yeah. He's the worst Hokage and I honestly don't see any accomplishments other than hindering Orochimaru for a few years after their fight.

Minato wasn't around enough and paid the ultimate price to keep his people safe and trying his best to allow Naruto the chance to live as a powerful shinobi some day. Which he did. If anything Minato accomplished the most in his short term as Hokage and father.

Tsunade did what she had to do. She started opening the village up a bit more and started the path that would eventually lead to where the world is now in Boruto. Not only that, but she wasn't swayed too easily and did things the way she though they should be done. A true leader. She stood up and fought for her people when she could, even playing a decent role in the 4th war before Naruto and Sasuke arrived full swing. Not the best Hokage ever, but she is one of the best.

 

[Shruikan]

Tobirama and Minato are well equipped to stop that. First off, Tobirama is paranoid so if the akatsuki were actually a thing. Naruto would have never left the village and been trained under him or Hiruzen most likely.

It would have been 100% on guard notice.


Nagato could have invaded with Minato as it was a time of peace but Minato already displayed his ability to remove threats from the village.





Politically, Hiruzen had issues, obviously.

Tsunade when it comes to defending the village. Healing is nice, but it shouldn't have came to that.

How can Hokage Minato and Tobirama deal with Shinra Tensei? I am just saying what would happen if Pain arrived under their reign.

 

[CTRL]

How can Hokage Minato and Tobirama deal with Shinra Tensei? I am just saying what would happen if Pain arrived under their reign.

Flying thunder god.

Not to mention Minato and Tobirama are known sensors, the moment the breach happened. Knew would have been the first response rather than relying on calling Naruto Uzumaki back to defend the village.

 

[salamander uchiha]

How can Hokage Minato and Tobirama deal with Shinra Tensei? I am just saying what would happen if Pain arrived under their reign.

They can't, their kunai's and they get blown away, if Preta comes into play then they can't even teleports since preta will just absorb chakra before they could mold it. Preta's absorbtion speed is unbelievably fast it absorbed an 8 tails cloak in mere moments. And if chameleon is in play then it's game,set and match. In other words they get trashed, the only reason Naruto stood a chance was because pain was drained and he was trying to capture not kill.

 

[Invicta]

They can't, their kunai's and they get blown away, if Preta comes into play then they can't even teleports since preta will just absorb chakra before they could mold it. Preta's absorbtion speed is unbelievably fast it absorbed an 8 tails cloak in mere moments. And if chameleon is in play then it's game,set and match. In other words they get trashed, the only reason Naruto stood a chance was because pain was drained and he was trying to capture not kill.

I'd give Minato more credit. The dude may have become a wuss later on the series, but in his debut moments he seemed intellectually gifted, more-so than Itachi prior being dwindled to Obito level of intelligence. Based on what we saw of the Minato that could handle a sudden dire situation very calmly and strategically, I would deign to think Pain wouldn't be able to pin him down like he did Naruto. From his fighting style and how he preps for nearly every situation, he would have seals placed practically everywhere, even outside the village, so a few kunai being blown away wouldn't necessarily subdue him. Also, he should be a lot faster than SM Naruto (who seemed to be faster than Pain), so it's most likely Pain gets blitzed. It doesn't seem Pain knows about FTG, so a few planted kunai would wreck him if Minato jumped in with Intel.

 

[Invicta]

How can Hokage Minato and Tobirama deal with Shinra Tensei? I am just saying what would happen if Pain arrived under their reign.

Tobirama would get swallowed into the abyss of Shinrei Tensei's sheer power, but I couldn't say the same for Minato, with his unrestricted FTG. He can get out of its vicinity as fast as he would any other attack flung at him that isn't as fast as high speed techniques like Amaterasu.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I'd give Minato more credit. The dude may have become a wuss later on the series, but in his debut moments he seemed intellectually gifted, more-so than Itachi prior being dwindled to Obito level of intelligence. Based on what we saw of the Minato that could handle a sudden dire situation very calmly and strategically, I would deign to think Pain wouldn't be able to pin him down like he did Naruto. From his fighting style and how he preps for nearly every situation, he would have seals placed practically everywhere, even outside the village, so a few kunai being blown away wouldn't necessarily subdue him. Also, he should be a lot faster than SM Naruto (who seemed to be faster than Pain), so it's most likely Pain gets blitzed. It doesn't seem Pain knows about FTG, so a few planted kunai would wreck him if Minato jumped in with Intel.

You'd be wrong, the point I was making was Minato would never be able to engage pain in combat if his kunai are blown away. He can sit outside the village with his bits in hand fondling himself while trying to figure out a way to counter pain while the village gets wrecked.

Pain is faster than SM Naruto, the only reason he seemed slower was because of he was still reeling post shinra tensei. Pain would know about ftg since Minato was famous for his feats, even if there were a few kunai here and there they wouldn't matter. Base Minato has 0 speed feats outside of FTG to boast of so he wouldn't last very long.

The only thing he could do is to try and lure pain away from the village. He doesn't have the chakra reserves to fight a prolonged battle either.

I don't think anybody's denying his intelligence although it's overhyped, he's clearly not level headed or as thoughful as the Soloking (Itachi). He chose to die than rather live on raise his son and protect the village. He could've formulated a plan to counter the mask man and even possibly retrieve the Kyubi if need be.

 

[Invicta]

You'd be wrong, the point I was making was Minato would never be able to engage pain in combat if his kunai are blown away. He can sit outside the village with his bits in hand fondling himself while trying to figure out a way to counter pain while the village gets wrecked. Pain is faster than SM Naruto, the only reason he seemed slower was because of he was still reeling post shinra tensei. Pain would know about ftg since Minato was famous for his feats, even if there were a few kunai here and there they wouldn't matter. Base Minato has 0 speed feats outside of FTG to boast of so he wouldn't last very long.

The thing is, he wouldn't really need kunai, because he's just faster than Pain. His gravity powers are just useless if he can't even perceive Minato's flashy movements. I don't agree Pain is faster than SM Naruto, and if Shinra Tensei had taken such a toll on him, he wouldn't have had so much more chakra to spare, to revive an entire village, unless you assert sheer will alone could factor into the prerequisites chakra for a mass revival of near thousands of shinobi corpses. Actually, although Minato was renowned for his instantaneous speeds, it was never attributed to his FTG, the Raikage never talked of his FTG when he praised his speed, but that stands on the assumption Minato wasn't going around bragging about his space-time technique, which seems very unlikely to me considering his modesty.

Unless we consider his fight against Raikage, I don't really see the point even discussing Minato if he's almost fearless by your account. Base Minato reacted to A, who was fresher than when he fought Sasuke and blitzed him. The same Sasuke that would have found Pain's speed dodageble. I don't think there is much to discussion when he can draw such examples to assess Minato's speed.

 

[Lord Orochimaru]

Each of them had seperate problems to look out for, but considering the fact that the akaatsuki stuff happened during Tsunades period would obviously make her the most unfortunate hokage,

 

[salamander uchiha]

The thing is, he wouldn't really need kunai, because he's just faster than Pain. His gravity powers are just useless if he can't even perceive Minato's flashy movements. I don't agree Pain is faster than SM Naruto, and if Shinra Tensei had taken such a toll on him, he wouldn't have had so much more chakra to spare, to revive an entire village, unless you assert sheer will alone could factor into the prerequisites chakra for a mass revival of near thousands of shinobi corpses. Actually, although Minato was renowned for his instantaneous speeds, it was never attributed to his FTG, the Raikage never talked of his FTG when he praised his speed, but that stands on the assumption Minato wasn't going around bragging about his space-time technique, which seems very unlikely to me considering his modesty.

I've edited my previous post. Anyway Minato's flashy movements Are you praising him or mocking him? Gravity doesn't always require the power of perception just ask the toads that got one shotted. Pain is faster than SM Naruto and he was drained those are facts. Nagato used up his lifeforce for the rebirth jutsu chakra wasn't much of a factor in it. Minato's speed was because of FTG and if we factor in his battle against the Raikage in fact from the fight that's all he used.

Unless we consider his fight against Raikage, I don't really see the point even discussing Minato if he's almost fearless by your account. Base Minato reacted to A, who was fresher than when he fought Sasuke and blitzed him. The same Sasuke that would have found Pain's speed dodageble. I don't think there is much to discussion when he can draw such examples to assess Minato's speed.

Base Minato had already laid out FTG kunai there was no reaction in teleporting to them. I suggest you re-read the fight, Minato doesn't have speed feats to boast about outside of FTG. And any suggestion of his speed is in reference to the FTG since that's all that he displayed in that fight.

 

[CTRL]

They can't, their kunai's and they get blown away, if Preta comes into play then they can't even teleports since preta will just absorb chakra before they could mold it. Preta's absorbtion speed is unbelievably fast it absorbed an 8 tails cloak in mere moments. And if chameleon is in play then it's game,set and match. In other words they get trashed, the only reason Naruto stood a chance was because pain was drained and he was trying to capture not kill.

There's a 5 second grace period between Shinra Tensei.

Ok so let's be real....Rasenshuriken is...fast as shit no denying that but their are some discrepancies about it aka the speed.
Granted it was done before but I realized that the number used before(50km I believe) is a bit...wankish :/ so instead to satisfy everyone I'll be using two numbers 5km and 10 km just to see what I get

Anyway it's stated that Pain needs 5 seconds to recharge after using ST
->Open Spoiler Tag<-



Naruto threw two FRS at pain the first one he repelled with ST at which the second one came immediately after timer starts now
->Open Spoiler Tag<-



Then Pain proceeds to dodge it
->Open Spoiler Tag<-


^ As you see FRS passed a large distance and this all happened in one second

However it looks as if FRS had like half a second left to reach that distance so I'll use that.

Now, why am I using 5-10 kilometers instead of 50 or higher?
Because the average mountain is around 2-4 kilometers and we can't assume every known mountain in Naruto is the size of Mt everest.

5kilometers=5000meters
Half a second=0.5seconds
Speed=Distance/Time

5000m/0.5s=10,000m/s

Mach 29 FRS

Using 10 kilometers
10km=10000meters
10000m/0.5s=20000m/s

Mach 59 FRS

Now considering they were both fatigued and quite low in chakra this may also be a low end but that's up to you guys.

I bet money Minato or Tobirama can match, if not beat that speed with a Kunai. Pain isn't stopping Minato or Tobirama from gap closing.

Especially not a Sage Mode Minato.

Minato/Tobirama teleports Pain (or any of the paths) away from civilians. In which both are well equipped to take them on.


The point being, win or lose, they'd have no issue preventing Pain from engaging Konoha so long as they're alive.

 

[salamander uchiha]

There's a 5 second grace period between Shinra Tensei.

What's your point, 5 second peeiod means nothing as Kakashi put it it's very small. Are you implying Pain will just stand around after blowing away the Kunai holding his decayed bits in hand. Are you assuming pain is one path?

Your argument for Naruto being fatigued is flawed. The Kyubi chakra fully healed him it was never stated he was out of chakra or fatigued. And he was still spamming jutsu which defied the SM limit considering he'd already used up a lot of chakra against pain so that's another flaw right there.

Most of these points mean nothing also they have limited chakra relative to Pain's vast quantities.

 

[CTRL]

What's your point, 5 second peeiod means nothing as Kakashi put it it's very small. Are you implying Pain will just stand around after blowing away the Kunai holding his decayed bits in hand. Are you assuming pain is one path?

Your argument for Naruto being fatigued is flawed. The Kyubi chakra fully healed him it was never stated he was out of chakra or fatigued. And he was still spamming jutsu which defied the SM limit considering he'd already used up a lot of chakra against pain so that's another flaw right there.

Most of these points mean nothing also they have limited chakra relative to Pain's vast quantities.

It's small for Kakashi who has no means of closing that gap outside of Kamui.

It isn't flawed, you saying Kurama fully healed him is conjecture.


Minato/Tobirama closes that gap easily with FTG. The point being these two kage prevent Pain from doing what Tsunade let happen easily.

And where are you seeing Tobirama/Minato having limited chakra? They aren't slouches in reserves.

 

[CTRL]

A fatigued Naruto(112 pounds) threw himself with the aid of 2 shadow clones within 5 seconds to beat pain with a rasengan.

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And people are saying Minato/Tobirama can't throw a shuriken that weighs less than that within 5 seconds to gap close.

 

[salamander uchiha]

It's small for Kakashi who has no means of closing that gap outside of Kamui.

It isn't flawed, you saying Kurama fully healed him is conjecture.


Minato/Tobirama closes that gap easily with FTG.

It's not conjecture it's the added benefit of being the Kyubi Jin. The fact that naruto was spamming jutsu is more than ample proof that his chakra was also restored. We saw his upper limit during his fight with pain.

Minato and Tobirama still has to throw the kunai and like I said you assume Pain would stand around with his bits in hand while Minato or Tobirama do this. To put Minato's speed in perspective a sneak attack by Minato on base killer with FTG amounted to Minato almost dieing. His FTG is overhyped and pain is being underestimated.

As for his SM it's a non issue Minato pretty much admmited it's pathetic.

They close no gap with FTG since Kakashi with an underground sneak attack couldn't. They don't have the stamina for a prolonged battle either.

You're trying to give feats where there arent any all the while ignoring Pain's abilities.

A fatigued Naruto(112 pounds) threw himself with the aid of 2 shadow clones within 5 seconds to beat pain with a rasengan.

Spoiler

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And people are saying Minato/Tobirama can't throw a shuriken that weighs less than that within 5 seconds to gap close.

A restored Naruto threw himself at a fatigued Pain/Nagato who was pretty much drained.

 

[CTRL]

It's not conjecture it's the added benefit of being the Kyubi Jin. The fact that naruto was spamming jutsu is more than ample proof that his chakra was also restored. We saw his upper limit during his fight with pain.

Minato and Tobirama still has to throw the kunai and like I said you assume Pain would stand around with his bits in hand while Minato or Tobirama do this. To put Minato's speed in perspective a sneak attack by Minato on base killer with FTG amounted to Minato almost dieing. His FTG is overhyped and pain is being underestimated.

As for his SM it's a non issue Minato pretty much admmited it's pathetic.

They close no gap with FTG since Kakashi with an underground sneak attack couldn't. They don't have the stamina for a prolonged battle either.

You're trying to tive feats where there arent any all the while ignoring Pain's abilities.

Naruto wasn't spamming jutsu after his father did the seal.

-He planted based mode shadow clones.

-Threw 2 RS in shadowclones (Kurama effecting his chakra resulted in his SM clone in the Mountains dispelling) before leaving SM

-Used one rasengan.



Look at it in comparison to what he did at the beginning of the fight. All Kurama did was heal his wounds, he did not restore his chakra reserves.



Pain lost to Naruto being thrown at him within 5 seconds.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Naruto wasn't spamming jutsu after his father did the seal.

-He planted based mode shadow clones.

Base mode or not they divide and cost chakra fukusaku stated the upper limit. If this iNaruto was the one with less chakra than he had at the beginning of the fight there would've been no spam. Certainly not the number he had at tue end of the fight considering he'd have a fraction of his orignal chakra.

-Threw 2 RS in shadowclones (Kurama effecting his chakra resulted in his SM clone in the Mountains dispelling) before leaving SM

-Used one rasengan.

The fact that Naruto was able to create all those shadow clones and still form 2 rasen shruiken and still have stamina for other jutsu, not fall oit of sage mode and still continue confirms hos tamina was restored. Especially if it's weighed against his actions against drained Nagato in the village. Who by the way was holding back since his objective was to capture and not kill.

Look at it in comparison to what he did at the beginning of the fight. All Kurama did was heal his wounds, he did not restore his chakra reserves.

Pain lost to Naruto being thrown at him within 5 seconds.

No it resotred his chakra along with healing his body. Naruto has an upper limit on how many shadow clones he can form since they take his chakra. Especially when weighed against what he was able to do against pain in the village.

 

[CTRL]

Base mode or not they divide and cost chakra fukusaku stated the upper limit. If this iNaruto was the one with less chakra than he had at the beginning of the fight there would've been no spam. Certainly not the number he had at tue end of the fight considering he'd have a fraction of his orignal chakra.



The fact that Naruto was able to create all those shadow clones and still form 2 rasen shruiken and still have stamina for other jutsu, not fall oit of sage mode and still continue confirms hos tamina was restored. Especially if it's weighed against his actions against drained Nagato in the village. Who by the way was holding back since his objective was to capture and not kill.



No it resotred his chakra along with healing his body. Naruto has an upper limit on how many shadow clones he can form since they take his chakra. Especially when weighed against what he was able to do against pain in the village.

Where does it state his charka was restored.

In MLB a pitcher on average throws a pitch at around 88 MPH.

A pitcher's mound from the diamond is about 60 feet.

They can cover that distance with a throw in 0.47 seconds.




And you're telling me Minato/Tobirama (fictional super humans) can't throw at that speed (on their worst day) within 5 seconds of their initial FTG shinra-tensei'd?



Fatigued or not doesn't matter, he was prepared to use ST again. Naruto threw himself within that 5 seconds that even surprised Nagato.


Here's what happens:

-Pain ST's the initial FTG.

-Minato/Tobirama throws more within that 5 second window gap closing if not outright shunshin blitzing.

 

[CTRL]

These people are superhumans who moved at mach speeds in part 1 as children 5 seconds for Kage tier people may as well be an eternity. Especially ones who can manipulate time and space.


I'm not saying Minato/Tobirama wins as I don't give a shit, really.

My point is that ST isn't stopping FTG or keeping FTG out of the equation.