Orochimaru vs Minato

[blazekev90]

As far as the Ay/Minato incident, there's reason to believe wind gust was the factor because two reasons; consistent debris and facial/body language

Point A:

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If you look closely near the kunia, we see debris mid-air along with the kunia.

Similarly, when Minato jumps back

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We see that of similar debris or sweat surrounding Minato, not the lines indicating movement/motion.

In comparison here

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We can debris at the site from Where Minato leaps. The very same spec is see in the scene with Ay.

Same here when leaping to point B.

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Also, you can't blame it on the tree, because we see it here as well

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Mid scan.
Here:

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And here:

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This is CONSISTENT and it's gust being illustrated.

Also, after Minato dodges Ay's punch, look at his facial expression. It's not that of someone who confidently reacted and causally tosses a kunia. It's a frustrated face, he's annoyed.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

Their KCM forms being equal is irrelevant. Says nothing about their lower forms as the boost Minato got isn't as good as the one Naruto got for obvious reasons.

Your going to have to provide proof. They get the same cloak and both have the Half of Kurama, so they both get the same boost. Not a single panel in the manga that suggest that Minato's cloak is any different than Naruto's.

Base Minato is far faster than Base Naruto in terms of all forms speed (and I hope you aren't going to argue otherwise, cause that's what it sounds like when you mention their KCM forms) yet w/ KCM they are equal. Then we have the clear cut fact that Minato's feats are superior to anything Naruto has ever done outside of KCM and higher forms.

We've been through this part before, and Base Naruto doesn't hinder my argument at all. Show me a bad reaction feat from anything below KCM in the entirety of the War Arc. You can't because Naruto only has 3 speed feats outside of KCM and 2 of them were good (Vs Raikage and Base Naruto Scaling Shinju before Kakashi could speak a few sentances) and the bad one was against a character with Rikudo Chakra.

Madara isn't a comparison for Minato either. Madara was beating Tobirama in reactions and most people consider him to have better reactions than KCM Minato. Rikudo Chakra would put his Shunshin above Minato's too, when amounts like what Kakashi got allow him to react to Kaguya. Even though Madara's chakra potency is k mart quality compared to theirs, theres a bigger gap going from MS Kakashi to reacting to Kaguya than there is going from Edo Madara to faster than Minato (especially when I really don't see a reason from him being that much faster than Edo Madara when EMS Sasuke has reactions on par with KCM characters)

You might think Base Naruto being on par with Base Minato might sound dumb but that alone isn't evidence against it. Minato is honestly really slow going by Juubito fight standards. I mean, put KCM Naruto up against him like Ay was and Minato gets his head punched off.

---

Just wanted to say I still argee with what you were saying about Minato vs Orochimaru. Minato is far, far faster than him.

 

[Nattana]

Fine, but this doesn't show that his lower body is the one that summoned said snakes. Snakes can be summoned out of any part of the body by the user and even the normal summoning jutsu doesn't have to call the animal directly to the summoner. So Orochimaru could've easily summoned said snakes and had them come from both halves of his body.

Well, that was the thing right from the beginning... The point is that Orochimaru can make snakes emerge from any body part with a single though, without any hand seals. Even if his body was dismembered.

Since when does blank pupils equal death?

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Sasuke's go pretty blank multiple times while Itachi is beating him. The only factual thing that happens to your pupils is that they dilate shortly after death. Orochimaru being able to die and then use Oral Rebirth not only makes zero sense because you can't use jutsu while dead (obviously), but it's based on nothing.

Come on... Take a look at what you posted. Sasuke's eyes didn't go blank, they were simply grayed out, which is a common drawing technique when Kishi doesn't want to show one's eyes. It happened many times thoughout the manga, when someone was sad, about to cry or Kishi simply didn't want to focus on the face. On every other panel Sasuke's pupils are big and screaming.

In Oro's case you can clearly see them fading away. His human shell died or was at the verge of dying. Just compare these two panels: [

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] & [

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]. The same situation.

Orochimaru sacrificed himself to the shinigami so he could release the 4 Hokage and he needed to switch bodies entirely to escape death. Not simply use Oral Rebirth like you are claiming is possible here. Being able to use it while missing limbs doesn't help your point. And Sasuke didn't make a body for Orochimaru out of chakra and consciousness. He took a piece of Kabuto's flesh, merged it with Anko's body using Jugo's powers and that's where Orochimaru's body was created from.

Ok, but how does that let him escape death by decapitation?

Of course Orochimaru couldn't use Body Replacement during the Shinigami ritual... I never meant that. What I means was that in normal circumstances, Orochimaru

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, meaning he has internal organs, blood and stuff like that. Yet we've seen that he can do *something* to all his insides to make them disappear and prevent any internal damage from being inflicted. And if he can survive without having internal organs (for some time obviously, since this state is not permanent), there should be no problem with surviving long enough to cast Body Replacement after decapitation.

Body Replacement creates another body and it does not depend on the one that it comes from, so it doesn't matter if he's missing an arm, a leg, or all limbs and torso. He can simply create a new body.

And yes, you're right. Sasuke used Oro's chakra, consciousness and a little bit of Kabuto's flesh which was infected by Oro's DNA. But it doesn't change the fact that Oro recreated his whole body just out of a small pulp of cells.

 

[KidGamer65]

Your going to have to provide proof. They get the same cloak and both have the Half of Kurama, so they both get the same boost. Not a single panel in the manga that suggest that Minato's cloak is any different than Naruto's.



We've been through this part before, and Base Naruto doesn't hinder my argument at all. Show me a bad reaction feat from anything below KCM in the entirety of the War Arc. You can't because Naruto only has 3 speed feats outside of KCM and 2 of them were good (Vs Raikage and Base Naruto Scaling Shinju before Kakashi could speak a few sentances) and the bad one was against a character with Rikudo Chakra.

Base Naruto's Shunshin is not on par with Minato's yet in terms of speed there is no large difference in between KCM Minato and KCM Naruto based on the feats shown in the War Arc. So how are the buffs for Minato and Naruto the same? Doesn't make any sense. VoTe 2 shows that Base Naruto and Base Sasuke, as in no Dojutsu at all, are equal in all physical abilities outside of Shunshin speed as they tied completely with no one having the edge in hand to hand. If Base Naruto's reflexes were on par w/ Minato's like you claim then Naruto, who has at least equal skill to Sasuke in Taijutsu and equal physical strength, would've destroyed Sasuke in hand to hand.

MS Sasuke can't even visually track Raikage nor can he react to him. Minato can react to him physically. MS Sasuke>>Base Sasuke=Base Naruto. C was surprised that Taka was able to keep up with Ay as his reflexes in Base equal Minato's. Manga is flat out saying right there that Ay's reflexes surpass this team's in Base. Ay in Base=Minato>MS Sasuke>>Base Sasuke=Base Naruto. Thus Minato is far faster than Base Naruto. Minato obliterates Naruto in Shunshin and he obliterates Naruto in reaction speed. Base Naruto has no feats simply because Base Naruto is nothing special, which is precisely why all his speed feats are when he's using modes that increase said speed.

Madara isn't a comparison for Minato either. Madara was beating Tobirama in reactions and most people consider him to have better reactions than KCM Minato. Rikudo Chakra would put his Shunshin above Minato's too, when amounts like what Kakashi got allow him to react to Kaguya. Even though Madara's chakra potency is k mart quality compared to theirs, theres a bigger gap going from MS Kakashi to reacting to Kaguya than there is going from Edo Madara to faster than Minato (especially when I really don't see a reason from him being that much faster than Edo Madara when EMS Sasuke has reactions on par with KCM characters)

Blind Madara didn't beat Tobirama in anything. That was a Madara w/ one eye and Hashirama's Sage Mode. So that's definitely not applicable, and there's nothing to prove or support that the chakra he had when revived in the War Arc would put his Shunshin above Minato's. What Kakashi got is from JJ Madara. The gap in power from what Kakashi and JJ Madara got is world's apart and no one knows how much chakra Madara got from merging the fragment of Ashura's he got from Hashirama's flesh with his Indra Chakra.

And Kakashi never reacted to Kaguya. She fired her attack, and he slipped through it and initialized Raikiri and then struck her. The only thing he reacted to was the Ash Bone, and that's a mental reaction. Though he already reacted to it in a slower form in his regular MS form.

Naruto's reaction in SM against someone nowhere near as fast as top speed Ay is on the same level as Minato's against top speed Ay from around or over half the distance. Base Naruto equaling Base Minato isn't a discussion at all. SM Naruto equaling Base Minato is barely even a discussion. And don't argue Madara in Base is faster or on par with Ay when arguments can barely be made for him surpassing Tobirama and Minato.

And the bold is reaction speed. Not movement speed. Madara is only important in this scenario because of his movement speed not his reaction speed.

You might think Base Naruto being on par with Base Minato might sound dumb but that alone isn't evidence against it. Minato is honestly really slow going by Juubito fight standards. I mean, put KCM Naruto up against him like Ay was and Minato gets his head punched off.

C stated that he's surprised Taka can keep up because Raikage's reflexes are on par with Minato's in Base. Thinking that Naruto in Base is on par with people who have that level of speed hype is ridiculous. Minato's speed hype comes from his reflexes and his Hiraishin. No reason to argue that Naruto in Base of all things is equal him in reflexes. Especially since his feats are lackluster or don't even exist.


And no, Minato isn't slow even when it comes to Juubito fight standards.

Just wanted to say I still argee with what you were saying about Minato vs Orochimaru. Minato is far, far faster than him.

Yup, I figured you agreed on the main point.

Well, that was the thing right from the beginning... The point is that Orochimaru can make snakes emerge from any body part with a single though, without any hand seals. Even if his body was dismembered.

If that's the point then I agree, but I don't see it proves that he can make his body act while dismembered. If you are saying that the snakes will reattach his head then attaching his head and brain back to his body is not the same thing as reattaching two halves of his body. If his head is severed from his body there is no way he'd be able to initiate Ninjutsu in the first place.

Come on... Take a look at what you posted. Sasuke's eyes didn't go blank, they were simply grayed out, which is a common drawing technique when Kishi doesn't want to show one's eyes. It happened many times thoughout the manga, when someone was sad, about to cry or Kishi simply didn't want to focus on the face. On every other panel Sasuke's pupils are big and screaming.

In Oro's case you can clearly see them fading away. His human shell died or was at the verge of dying. Just compare these two panels: [

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] & [

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]. The same situation.

Bold is exactly what happened. On the verge of dying. Can't initiate Ninjutsu while dead.

Of course Orochimaru couldn't use Body Replacement during the Shinigami ritual... I never meant that. What I means was that in normal circumstances, Orochimaru

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, meaning he has internal organs, blood and stuff like that. Yet we've seen that he can do *something* to all his insides to make them disappear and prevent any internal damage from being inflicted. And if he can survive without having internal organs (for some time obviously, since this state is not permanent), there should be no problem with surviving long enough to cast Body Replacement after decapitation.

But by saying he can use Oral Rebirth while dead you are saying he'd be able to do it during the ritual, because there is nothing special about the ritual that'd prevent that. The only thing is he has to kill himself. To escape death he needed to switch bodies. If your argument was legit then he'd simply be able to revive himself after dying. As for what you are saying here, how does him being able to hide his internal organs somehow mean that he can survive decapitation? Two different types of situations and one is an injury while the other is of Orochimaru's own doing via unknown methods (which only hurts your argument more) that probably let him survive. Kabuto can liquefy his internal organs and survive yet he's not going to survive fatal attacks of this nature any better than he normally would.

Body Replacement creates another body and it does not depend on the one that it comes from, so it doesn't matter if he's missing an arm, a leg, or all limbs and torso. He can simply create a new body.

And I never disputed this, but if he's dead then there is no coming back to life.

And yes, you're right. Sasuke used Oro's chakra, consciousness and a little bit of Kabuto's flesh which was infected by Oro's DNA. But it doesn't change the fact that Oro recreated his whole body just out of a small pulp of cells.

No, it wasn't Orochimaru who did anything. It was Sasuke who brought him back. Orochimaru did nothing nor is that evidence he can bring himself back from the dead with a technique that is only meant to reconstruct his living body.

 

[KidGamer65]

As far as the Ay/Minato incident, there's reason to believe wind gust was the factor because two reasons; consistent debris and facial/body language

Point A:

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If you look closely near the kunia, we see debris mid-air along with the kunia.

Similarly, when Minato jumps back

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We see that of similar debris or sweat surrounding Minato, not the lines indicating movement/motion.

In comparison here

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We can debris at the site from Where Minato leaps. The very same spec is see in the scene with Ay.

Same here when leaping to point B.

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Also, you can't blame it on the tree, because we see it here as well

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Mid scan.
Here:

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And here:

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This is CONSISTENT and it's gust being illustrated.

Also, after Minato dodges Ay's punch, look at his facial expression. It's not that of someone who confidently reacted and causally tosses a kunia. It's a frustrated face, he's annoyed.

None of that is even close to being consistent. During the flashback the smoke appeared like twice. During every other fight there is no smoke and there is no smoke where he warps against Ay so bringing anything else is irrelevant. Not sure how hard a concept that is for you to grasp. Even if there was smoke, it wouldn't blow his Kunai upwards above Ay's head. It'd blow it in a straight line. When you are going to realize that you don't make a shred of sense here?

What is shown is that the Kunai goes from Minato's hand to above Ay's head. Meaning he threw it. None of this nonsense you are pushing.

 

[blazekev90]

None of that is even close to being consistent. During the flashback the smoke appeared like twice. During every other fight there is no smoke and there is no smoke where he warps against Ay so bringing anything else is irrelevant. Not sure how hard a concept that is for you to grasp. Even if there was smoke, it wouldn't blow his Kunai upwards above Ay's head. It'd blow it in a straight line. When you are going to realize that you don't make a shred of sense here?

What is shown is that the Kunai goes from Minato's hand to above Ay's head. Meaning he threw it. None of this nonsense you are pushing.

I said debris. Not smoke. Wind gust blows debris upwards, just as shown in each scan provided. Now you're just shouting nonsense and denying manga scans. lol.

Also, I addressed the physical damage discussion on the previous page.

 

[KidGamer65]

I said debris. Not smoke. Wind gust blows debris upwards, just as shown in each scan provided. Now you're just shouting nonsense and denying manga scans. lol.

Also, I addressed the physical damage discussion on the previous page.

-No wind in that scan. Thus killing your nonsense argument.
-No debris in that scan either. What is by the Kunai isn't debris. What the hell kind of debris would the wind blow up anyway when they were on a flat undamaged surface? :lol
-No debris being pushed upwards at an angle in any scan you posted.

:lol You can stop now. It's pathetic how far you'll reach just to avoid admitting you are wrong here.


I'll address that later.

 

[blazekev90]

-No wind in that scan. Thus killing your nonsense argument.
-No debris in that scan either. What is by the Kunai isn't debris. What the hell kind of debris would the wind blow up anyway when they were on a flat undamaged surface? :lol
-No debris being pushed upwards at an angle in any scan you posted.

:lol You can stop now. It's pathetic how far you'll reach just to avoid admitting you are wrong here.


I'll address that later.

Smoke doesn't need to be present to illustrate wind. We've witness the debris(or whatever) in other scans, indicating the force/pressure from Minato's leap effecting the nearby dirt/leafs/etc..

It is. It's near the kunia, what aren't you seeing?!? Lol

 

[Booker]

As far as the Ay/Minato incident, there's reason to believe wind gust was the factor because two reasons; consistent debris and facial/body language

Point A:

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If you look closely near the kunia, we see debris mid-air along with the kunia.

Similarly, when Minato jumps back

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We see that of similar debris or sweat surrounding Minato, not the lines indicating movement/motion.

In comparison here

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We can debris at the site from Where Minato leaps. The very same spec is see in the scene with Ay.

Same here when leaping to point B.

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Also, you can't blame it on the tree, because we see it here as well

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Mid scan.
Here:

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And here:

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This is CONSISTENT and it's gust being illustrated.

Also, after Minato dodges Ay's punch, look at his facial expression. It's not that of someone who confidently reacted and causally tosses a kunia. It's a frustrated face, he's annoyed.

This is one of the most retarded and desperate arguments I've ever read in this forum. You are really reaching.

Reminds me of when Sky tried to argue Temari's Futon couldn't cut someone in half just because we've never seen it do so.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

-snip-.

Before this goes any farther I wanted to clear something up with you. I'm not arguing Narutos Shunshin would scale down to being on par with Minatos even in SM, I'm talking solely about combat speed (reactions/striking/foot speed) since that's all their KCM counterparts were shown to be equal in. Minatos Shunshin and reactions speeds are somewhat on tilt since Tobirama called Minatos faster despite the Tobirama having vastly superior reactions

I'll make a reply after you respond to this

 

[blazekev90]

This is one of the most retarded and desperate arguments I've ever read in this forum. You are really reaching.

Reminds me of when Sky tried to argue Temari's Futon couldn't cut someone in half just because we've never seen it do so.

I'd expect as much from tip rider. It's only reaching when there's nothing to back it up. If you want to ignore the debris/leafs afloat a supposedly "tossed" kunia, that's on you.

Also, that's a horrible comparison. In fact, we don't see Minato tossing a kunia is that scan, yet there's evidence indicting wind occurred, similar to instances in which I've provided.

 

[whitemalik]

SO IVE BEEN READING THIS WHOLE THREAD AND BLAZE ARE U TRYING TO SAY MINATO DIDNT TOSS HIS KUNAI AGAINST AY HE JUST GOT LUCKY CAUSE HIS MOVEMENT CREATED WIND THAT BLEW THE KUNAI UPWARDS AT THE RIGHT SPOT

That doesn't sound right at all cause if this is revelant the anime showed minato tossing his KUNAI up so he could dodge the strike and counter attack no he didn't just get lucky that it landed near Ay face

There's a reason why minato was so feared and he is also known as one of best shinobis when it comes to reactions

 

[whitemalik]

Also the debris and smoke could because he is moving so fast that he is creating his own wind in a sense

 

[KidGamer65]

Before this goes any farther I wanted to clear something up with you. I'm not arguing Narutos Shunshin would scale down to being on par with Minatos even in SM, I'm talking solely about combat speed (reactions/striking/foot speed) since that's all their KCM counterparts were shown to be equal in. Minatos Shunshin and reactions speeds are somewhat on tilt since Tobirama called Minatos faster despite the Tobirama having vastly superior reactions

I'll make a reply after you respond to this

Ok. Doesn't change much anyway. Just ignore the first sentence or two of the post.

 

[blazekev90]

SO IVE BEEN READING THIS WHOLE THREAD AND BLAZE ARE U TRYING TO SAY MINATO DIDNT TOSS HIS KUNAI AGAINST AY HE JUST GOT LUCKY CAUSE HIS MOVEMENT CREATED WIND THAT BLEW THE KUNAI UPWARDS AT THE RIGHT SPOT

That doesn't sound right at all cause if this is revelant the anime showed minato tossing his KUNAI up so he could dodge the strike and counter attack no he didn't just get lucky that it landed near Ay face

There's a reason why minato was so feared and he is also known as one of best shinobis when it comes to reactions

Understandable. I'm aware the anime tried to explain exactly what occurred, as the scans failed to do so. However, anime=/Manga, it adds filler. Kish could've and should've added that detail, therefore it wouldn't allow the reader to interpret what transpired themselves.

With that being said, there's small particles present in that scan that I've noticed in other when Minato leaps from point A to point B. Those small particles in each instance has illustrated a wind gust. Considering that and Minato facical expression, that seems like a more logical outcome than saying his tossed it.

Now, had Ay stopped his movements, i'd credit the debris or whatever resulting from his movements, since someone traveling that fast can attract dirt traveling behind them. However, Ay was still in motion, so that eliminates that possibility.

 

[KidGamer65]

Smoke doesn't need to be present to illustrate wind. We've witness the debris(or whatever) in other scans, indicating the force/pressure from Minato's leap effecting the nearby dirt/leafs/etc..

It is. It's near the kunia, what aren't you seeing?!? Lol

The only thing that even begins to point to any type of wind is the smoke. Period. No smoke=Your argument doesn't make sense. The force from his jump affecting the nearby dirt and leaves isn't the same as him creating enough force to push his Kunai up at an agnle so you can stop this now.

And no, what you are seeing as the same as what you are seeing in the panel where Ay is surrounding by electricity.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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No debris. Even if that was debris, where is the proof that the debris came from the same location as Minato's Kunai? There is none. You have zero evidence that his Kunai was blown by your imaginary wind so you can stop reaching. It's ridiculous. Then we have the fact that in other scans when he appears shit launches up FROM THE GROUND because of the impact of him hitting the ground. How does that mean a Kunai he leaves behind will blow upwards at an angle.

Your evidence is shaky and makes zero sense as usual. Time to concede.

 

[KidGamer65]

I'll address the Minato kunia topic in another post.

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"I cannot be destroyed." In this context, Orochimaru it telling Sasuke he can't destroy him, meaning he can't inflict any lethal strike against him. He goes further to state "your insignificant jutsu can't kill me." Facts, he's outright implying that physical attacks can't kill him. This is the very reason why he's only been sealed and/or absorbed. Any other method used to "kill" Orochimaru fails.

That's Orochimaru in his true form, not in a host body. Try again. Not to mention "I can not be destroyed" is a false statement as he he already admitted that KN4's Bijuu Dama would've killed him. There is no sentence here that specifies "physical attacks" so why are you acting like it does?

We have to remember Kimimmaro's statement

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"Immortality doesn't NECESSARILY indicate immortality of the body." Orochimaru's spirit is what lives, host are nothing than physical forms Orochimaru's spirit resides in.

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The host body has no limits as to what the it can endure once reincarnation has transpired. ONLY after the three year is the BODY vulnerable.

Yes, Orochimaru is "immortal" because he can change bodies, thus circumventing the fact he can die of old age. The bold is something you literally made up. Can we not do this?

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This reincarnation allows the body to be killed, as the spirit continues to live. Orochimaru's human form isn't even his. Arguably, Orochimaru existence is purely that of spiritual energy.

"Spiritual energy (精神エネルギー, seishin enerugī, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience." Similarly, his true form acts like that of Tanya's jutsu with the soul sucking spiritual guys (lol).
-"The materialised spirits are composed almost entirely of spiritual energy, so the chakra is in an unstable state. Therefore, they crave physical energy, so they hunt for their prey endlessly."

Already addressed, nor does this make any sense and even if it did, it doesn't matter. If his body dies, and his spirit lives it doesn't matter because in terms of the fight he's done. Not to mention by this logic Bijuu Dama would kill his body but his soul would live on. Makes zero sense. Orochimaru is immortal because he can live forever by changing bodies every 3 years. That is the explanation anyone who isn't trying to glorify their favorite character would come up with after reading or watching the Manga or Anime.

This also ties and explains why this form is required in order for the ritual to work. This separate dimension, some call genjutsu, it simply Orochimaru's spiritual energy taking ahold of his new body. As explained, genjutsu is Yin release

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yin release is based on spiritual energy.


Overall, this explains why no strike/decapitation can possibly kill Orochimaru. The host body will either reattach itself or produce another body. You using "logic" doesn't apply when Orochimaru has already been referred to as being inhuman

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So you can stop with the "So Tsuande can do it too" game. The two obviously aren't comparable.

You've literally explained nothing. You did what you do best. Twist what the Manga says to benefit your argument. Manga states that Orochimaru can be killed. Manga states that his immortality comes from the fact that he can switch bodies, not from the fact he is unable to be killed.

 

[Booker]

I'd expect as much from tip rider. It's only reaching when there's nothing to back it up. If you want to ignore the debris/leafs afloat a supposedly "tossed" kunia, that's on you.

Also, that's a horrible comparison. In fact, we don't see Minato tossing a kunia is that scan, yet there's evidence indicting wind occurred, similar to instances in which I've provided.

Yes, I am sure Kishimoto sat down and said, "I'm going to make 3 little dash marks around the Kunai to show some debris, that way the super-attentive reader could one day argue that a gust of wind moved a heavy kunai multiple feet through the air." Use some common sense, moron.

Contextual evidence and common sense dictates Minato threw that kunai because (1) It's not coincidence the kunai happened to appear in the exact strategic location Minato needed for his counter attack (2) Assuming Minato didn't throw it, it would have been driven into the dirt by Ay's movements directly forward and into it (3) If a "gust of wind" was capable of propelling that heavy kunai multiple feet into the air in the OPPOSITE direction of the incoming force, that "debris" you're so fond of citing wouldn't have been anywhere close to that kunai; since it's far lighter, it would have been sent multiple feet ahead of it. Yet you're arguing that it traveled the same distance and same speed as the far heavier kunai, despite being lighter.

You're essentially arguing that a gust of wind somehow kicked up and moved a heavy kunai to the right and around Ay's body, while simultaneously going upwards.

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[blazekev90]

The only thing that even begins to point to any type of wind is the smoke. Period. No smoke=Your argument doesn't make sense. The force from his jump affecting the nearby dirt and leaves isn't the same as him creating enough force to push his Kunai up at an agnle so you can stop this now.

And no, what you are seeing as the same as what you are seeing in the panel where Ay is surrounding by electricity.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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No debris. Even if that was debris, where is the proof that the debris came from the same location as Minato's Kunai? There is none. You have zero evidence that his Kunai was blown by your imaginary wind so you can stop reaching. It's ridiculous. Then we have the fact that in other scans when he appears shit launches up FROM THE GROUND because of the impact of him hitting the ground. How does that mean a Kunai he leaves behind will blow upwards at an angle.

Your evidence is shaky and makes zero sense as usual. Time to concede.

I considered the possibility of that being electricity too. However, the shapes are different. Wheneven electricity is illustrated there's sharp edges present on both ends, like a mini thunder bolts. The top panel is indeed electrical currents from Ay. But near the kunia we see three small particales, two round shaped particles and one shaped like wood of some sort Exactly like shown here

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Maybe I'm reading too much into, but that's how I see it.

 

[Booker]

By the way, if there was a shitton of wind blowing this heavy metal kunai multiple feet into the air, wouldn't Minato's hair also being moving in that direction? And, ya know, not be sitting completely still? Lol

You act as if Hurricane Sandy blew into this fight for half a second and then magically stopped.