Orochimaru vs Kisame

[Brother Numpsay]

Nah it just requires samehada as a medium thats really all I can tell you,

Also the zetsu used for Kisame's Doppelganger was a zetsu clone not the original...

Wait what am I saying the zetsu clone didn't switch with Kisame till the fight was already over...

Samehada was with Bee, when Substituted was still in use.

Original or clone doesnt matter since Orochimaru>>>>Zetsu. Yet alone a phyical boost Zetsu Orochimaru>>>>Zetsu.

The scan I post showed when the switched happen,

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. Scan also supported your point that it can be remote controlled. Still doesn't disprove my point since Orochimaru usage will be superior and different.

 

[blazekev90]

I know, I was just explaining what happened in that scan.

I was going to post that scan, but since Bee had the chakra cloak surrounding him, it could be used as a counter argument. And I highly doubt that losing breath was the case, considering that he was fine in the previous page, and only begins to seem drained after Kisame hits him, while the latter notes that Bee's chakra is nearly at its end. Regardless, Evani and BAC2 already posted a more clear scan for that point.

The fact remains, we've witness characters nearly drained of chakra. The outcome was different, Bee appeared to be unconscious for a brief moment and even coughed up blood. So, yes it was likely due him losing his breathe.

 

[Kagustuchi]

People sleep on Zetsu. I remember Dkdankong beat a Kimmimaro with him in a debate.

 

[Kakashistomps]

Orochimaru wins

 

[Zexion~]

Samehada was with Bee, when Substituted was still in use.

Original or clone doesnt matter since Orochimaru>>>>Zetsu. Yet alone a phyical boost Zetsu Orochimaru>>>>Zetsu.

The scan I post showed when the switched happen,

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. Scan also supported your point that it can be remote controlled. Still doesn't disprove my point since Orochimaru usage will be superior and different.

Not really bruh you need the users chakra zetsu can't transfer chakra Samehada can hence why that was available

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Bro, are even you even reading manga?

Not really bruh you need the users chakra

Bro, thats one of Zetsu mains ability... Which I clearly post.

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zetsu can't transfer chakra

...

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[Zexion~]

Bro, are even you even reading manga?



Bro, thats one of Zetsu mains ability... Which I clearly post.

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...

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Forgot about that bottom scan, I mean zetsu still was never shown to use a jutsu when he substituted in. He merely merged with Samehada and Samehada did all the work really

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Forgot about that bottom scan, I mean zetsu still was never shown to use a jutsu when he substituted in. He merely merged with Samehada and Samehada did all the work really

I already gave my reason with manga statements:

1.) Zetsu is weak in comparison, as I have post many times. So it will be difficult for him to do jutsu when he substitute. As you suggested, unless remote control. This DOES NOT imply to Orochimaru

2.) Samehada rejected Zetsu for BEE, so no sign of him attempting help Zetsu use GSB

 

[Zexion~]

I already gave my reason with manga statements:

1.) Zetsu is weak in comparison, as I have post many times. So it will be difficult for him to do jutsu when he substitute. As you suggested, unless remote control. This DOES NOT imply to Orochimaru

2.) Samehada rejected Zetsu for BEE, so no sign of him attempting help Zetsu use GSB

What? Orochimaru doesn't automatically get to copy Kisame's jutsu? I don't know why you're assuming he's stronger than zetsu with his own abilities.

He never used GSB it was a clone it probably thought he could use it

 

[Brother Numpsay]

What? Orochimaru doesn't automatically get to copy Kisame's jutsu?

When Orochimaru takes back chakra to himself he has the ability to absorb intel from the user too.

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I don't know why you're assuming he's stronger than zetsu with his own abilities.

I didnt say he is superior with the "ability" I said he is superior with the "body". Zetsu isnt able to handle the characters he copies so he is limited to what he can perform, much like a Clone compare to the orignal.

Think of it like this. Kakashi can copy Suiton from Kisame. Does that mean Kakashi can pull off large scales Suiton techniques? No because his body and chakra reserves wont be able to. This is what I implying. Orochimaru body and chakra reserves can handle it, unlike Zetsu, alone.

He never used GSB it was a clone it probably thought he could use it

It doesnt matter if he thought he could or couldn't. It doesn't discredit the evidence

 

[Zexion~]

When Orochimaru takes back chakra to himself he has the ability to absorb intel from the user too.

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I didnt say he is superior with the "ability" I said he is superior with the "body". Zetsu isnt able to handle the characters he copies so he is limited to what he can perform, much like a Clone compare to the orignal.

Think of it like this. Kakashi can copy Suiton from Kisame. Does that mean Kakashi can pull off large scales Suiton techniques? No because his body and chakra reserves wont be able to. This is what I implying. Orochimaru body and chakra reserves can handle it, unlike Zetsu, alone.



It doesnt matter if he thought he could or couldn't. It doesn't discredit the evidence

*sigh* Well for starters Kisame's reserves >>>>>Oro's

It also has other things such as chakra control and etc. But I guess that would work except Kisame's WD is already filled with his own chakra so others using it for suiton is questionable

 

[Brother Numpsay]

*sigh* Well for starters Kisame's reserves >>>>>Oro's

Its unclear of their reserves but what we do know is this.

1.) You need enormous amount of chakra to be able to train in SM. Orochimaru tried but had "body" problems. But it easily shows that Orochimaru's reserves were comparable to Jiraya and Base Naruto. Add the fact the Senju cells gave him even more physical boost it get pretty clear from here.

Whatever you still think Kisame still has more reserves isn't going to change that Orochimaru's is comparable and compatible. And being comparable/compatible is all that matter for my point.

It also has other things such as chakra control and etc. But I guess that would work except Kisame's WD is already filled with his own chakra so others using it for suiton is questionable

Even if questionable, WD works for Kisames benefit so I dont see why bother of Orochimaru using it against him.

 

[Zexion~]

Its unclear of their reserves but what we do know is this.

1.) You need enormous amount of chakra to be able to train in SM. Orochimaru tried but had "body" problems. But it easily shows that Orochimaru's reserves were comparable to Jiraya and Base Naruto. Add the fact the Senju cells gave him even more physical boost it get pretty clear from here.

Whatever you still think Kisame still has more reserves isn't going to change that Orochimaru's is comparable and compatible. And being comparable/compatible is all that matter for my point.



Even if questionable, WD works for Kisames benefit so I dont see why bother of Orochimaru using it against him.

Still not sold on Oro's copying abilities with the Zetsu. Again zetsu should have done that numerous times...

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Still not sold on Oro's copying abilities with the Zetsu. Again zetsu should have done that numerous times...

Take a look at this:

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The DB diagram states that Zetsu has the potential to learn all 5 elements. But as I stated Zetsu's is a "weak" character in comparison to other level ninja's. So how can a weak character be able to copy high level attacks? That makes no sense.

So what happens when Zetsu steals or have a body that can support them? Lets look at manga examples:

[

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] Not only does Madara comment of Zetsu (to his knowledge but later corrected in the manga) of weak versions of Hashirama clones, but Zetsu mades a comment that he has an "inside" they possess that makes him stronger. And the "fight" he is in, the war, "is under controlled".

Lets look at the feats of the "inside" he was talking about:
[

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] The Zetsu with "body boost" was able to pull out non-SM version of Hashirama strongest Mokuton move
[

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] The Zetsu with "body boost" was able to pull out high level of all chakra nature attacks!

We later find out in the manga that the body support for its "boost" was Yamato[

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>

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]

So what we witness here is not the ability to copy them, the issue is having a body to support themselves to use high level techs.

 

[Zexion~]

Take a look at this:

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The DB diagram states that Zetsu has the potential to learn all 5 elements. But as I stated Zetsu's is a "weak" character in comparison to other level ninja's. So how can a weak character be able to copy high level attacks? That makes no sense.

So what happens when Zetsu steals or have a body that can support them? Lets look at manga examples:

[

You must be registered for see links

] Not only does Madara comment of Zetsu (to his knowledge but later corrected in the manga) of weak versions of Hashirama clones, but Zetsu mades a comment that he has an "inside" they possess that makes him stronger. And the "fight" he is in, the war, "is under controlled".

Lets look at the feats of the "inside" he was talking about:
[

You must be registered for see links

] The Zetsu with "body boost" was able to pull out non-SM version of Hashirama strongest Mokuton move
[

You must be registered for see links

] The Zetsu with "body boost" was able to pull out high level of all chakra nature attacks!

We later find out in the manga that the body support for its "boost" was Yamato[

You must be registered for see links

>

You must be registered for see links

]

So what we witness here is not the ability to copy them, the issue is having a body to support themselves to use high level techs.

Firstly this is all conjecture

Secondly you realize just because oro controls zetsu's body doesn't mean they now have a body to support them? Its still merely one zetsu body with zetsu and oro's abilities and the white snake inside or in another dimension (never really knew where that thing was) which isn't really a body either..So its not like oro's simulating what zetsu did to Yamato, he merely has a zetsu body now

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Firstly this is all conjecture

If only on the basis of incomplete information. Whats missing according to you?

Secondly you realize just because oro controls zetsu's body doesn't mean they now have a body to support them?

Then you are outright denying Orochimaru's Fushi Tensei. Manga outright stated he wanted Kimmiaro's abilities and Sasuke's Sharingan. He developed Fushi Tensei to transfer his soul to use to live forever, along the fact of stealing bodies that are granted special abilities/ blood lines.

We canonically seen Sasuke reversing the move, and end up copying Orochimaru's abilities instead.

ts still merely one zetsu body with zetsu and oro's abilities and the white snake inside or in another dimension (never really knew where that thing was) which isn't really a body either..So its not like oro's simulating what zetsu did to Yamato, he merely has a zetsu body now

Not how Fushi Tensei works. Its Orochimaru ability granted with a container's abilities. Fact. As I have addressed all above.

 

[Kagustuchi]

@Zexion

When Orichimaru inhabits a new body he stills gets his full power. Or do you think that the random fodder he used at the end of part 1 can take on KN4 Naruto. Same with the random Chick he had when he fought Hiruzen.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

It depends how Orochimaru goes about his game. If he's being playful and taking hits, he's bound to lose. Kisame's not an opponent you can allow to go at you like that. I could see Orochimaru winning with a use of spores or even the five pronged seal, however.

Hard to call, though.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

wouldn't samehada reabsorb the chakra that the spores have absorbed off kisame

then there's the fact that its spikes both in base of fused form could shred them off

It depends on what has superior chakra absorbing capabilities. I'd lean towards Samehada, but Samehada too has chakra, blood, and seems to function similarly to a living creature. I wouldn't put the possibility of samehada, ironically, being drained of chakra if enough spores are latched onto it.

 

[Zexion~]

@Zexion

When Orichimaru inhabits a new body he stills gets his full power. Or do you think that the random fodder he used at the end of part 1 can take on KN4 Naruto. Same with the random Chick he had when he fought Hiruzen.

What is your point?

Zetsu's abilities require another body to enhance them correct? Just having Oro's own abilities doesn't do anything