Orochimaru vs Kisame
- Thread starter Kagustuchi
- Start date
Outta my face if you can't show Lol. You said it only has feats of injuring Gai but then can't show me.
Damn with this rubbish...It doesn't have to be a Projectile that's a horrible way of reasoning. Hydra is big enough and can tank it but that's not the point when the Jutsu eats chakra which weakens Hydra and then the Jutsu grows and explodes which greats affects Hydra.
This better be a Joke because I said GSB countless times..Not sure why you're resorting to something else. I outright said feeding sharks are countered via snakes but Zex has a point because there are thousand snakes going for 8 heads and they can indeed do damage if Kisame adds his shark summonings that are actually physical.
Except for the fact that the DB implies that the Water clones are stronger since they can replicate feats like Taijutsu and Ninjutsu of the Original...Oro's clones aren't winning against them. Same for snakes which can be easily countered.
Lool stop ok?...Shadow clones aren't as strong as the user and can't use their ability..Water clones have the same ability and can just wreck the hell out of Oro's clones. Read my point with KG where I point this out.
Oh yeah Zetsu which I forgot..Pretty sure Zetsu clones are weaker than the original.
I did with Kidgamer...You said he can only absorb with his fins because of the B scenario but you ignored the fact that he had to inject B in order for B not to escape. If contact is made, he'll absorb his chakra.
Why you thanking KG Haha...You realize he even acknowledges the fact that GSB absorbs and grown bigger which was our main argument? I already addressed the Water clones aspect and I don't see how I'm wrong there provided GSB doesn't require chakra to an extent where they can't use it. Someone with Tailed Beast chakra levels can't do so with his clones despite them having the same ability?
Zetsu Oro maybe since I don't know everything regarding Zetsu but I'm sure Oro without Zetsu either loses or just maybe win with the odds against him. Med diff? Hell nah.
I literally drew a Picture that showed once it made contact of non chakra exposed targets it will not absorb and go on forever like you seem to think. Zetsu Oru wins 100% of the time no disputing! It is literally LOW-Mid at best and that's me being nice with the mid. BAse/Sick Oru wins mid/High diff just because Kisame has a shit load of stamina to drag it on.
Who is to say GSB didnt take a shit load of chakra? Why do you think it can be spammed?
RustledJimmies
Banned
Dafuq this clown talking about
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
super yang
Active member
what? five feeding sharks did cut gai
it doesn't eat anything. surrounds the opposing jutsu w/ its mouth & supposedly turns it against the opponent.
there is nothing to ''explode'' against hydra
if u look at what i responded too, it was 1,000.
maybe U got it confused.
oros snakes counters it
well the manga implies: mokubunshin> kagebunshin>> mizu/iwa bunshins, sorry
so are water clones
the same is true of oro escaping. altho, he casn bust the dome w/ rashoumon either way.
oros white snake form is bigger than kisame. oro doesn't have a cloak to absorb
grabbing & sticking oro is his only chnce[/QUOTE]
Lol but the picture was in reference to it's body length and not it's width...GSB is useless against the body length but definitely not against the width of the body. It eats and absorbs chakra so I don't get what you mean. Chakra doesn't have to be visible as that was not implied at all.
Plus don't lie, me and FT convinced you in some areas even though you influenced my thoughts as well.
Because nowhere was it said to take loads for someone of that level...The Jutsu is an A Rank technique and Kakashi's water clone was using a B rank technique that was referred to as high leveled when Tobirama used it shocking the Anbu that saw. Are we comparing KaKashi's clone to Bijuu leveled Kisame? My point stands since there's no argument for GSB's chakra level but I have shown the massive difference in Chakra levels between Kisame and Kakashi, I've shown Water clones have the same ability as the user and I've shown water clones are capable of using high leveled suiton techniques.
You must be registered for see images
Told him as well.
Last edited:
blazekev90
Active member
Not to get involved, but what exactly did that scan prove? Did I miss something? Lol
Nah it just requires samehada as a medium thats really all I can tell you,
Also the zetsu used for Kisame's Doppelganger was a zetsu clone not the original...
Wait what am I saying the zetsu clone didn't switch with Kisame till the fight was already over...
blazekev90
Active member
I get the premise of his claim, but that scan in particular didn't prove anything, he used a wrong scan. That scan simply demonstrated Kisame's ability to sense once fused with same heads.
If he used it jokingly, than that's something different.
Oh seen what you mean but I believe it was clear here that his chakra was exhausted since Kisame did say " Looks like you're almost gone" and since he didn't have the intent of killing due to just capturing him, I believe it was a clear reference to his chakra.
You must be registered for see links
Even though that scan isn't convincing enough, I already showed another that's definitely legit.
Last edited:
blazekev90
Active member
That's a reasonable claim, however we're also aware that Bee was losing his breathe during the duration of that fight within Dome. This was the result of him(Bee$ losing consciousness (almost). We've seen shinobi nearly drained of chakra, the end result wasn't the character being unconscious.
Regardless, the arguentment of charka draining is counterproductive when this form of Orochimaru has the ability himself.
He switched with kisame when bee had the ink in the dome, fact 1! Zestu clone was also able to fused with samahada fact 2. Results, zestu clones can mimic the jutsus of the original user. (And keep in mind sama allowed zestu kisame to fuse, so that says allot)
RustledJimmies
Banned
Lol, my bad, those are two different links, in the first one Bee is perfectly fine, but in the other one when Kisame attacks him, his chakra is almost completely drained, since he had Samehada fused with his body, Bee getting drained after Kisame's blows prove that Samehada absorbs chakra directly from the body as it did in the scan.
KidGamer65
Active member
Awards
You claimed it. I've already given evidence as to why it doesn't mean what you think it means.
Already have. "Ability" doesn't mean "everything the original can perform", otherwise Limbo would be using all of Madara's Jutsu, and not just physical attacks.
Except they don't.
Don't need to prove it. You are claiming that GSB, Kisame's strongest jutsu, can be used by his 10% clones with literally no valid evidence. You don't claim something w/o evidence, and then expect the opposition to counter. You've shown that Kakashi's Water Clone was able to use a suiton that isn't on the level of GSB in scale. Throwing the words "high leveled" around doesn't make your argument valid.
That is exactly what you have to prove. You have no proof they can replicate said jutsu, so there is nothing to talk about. Burden of proof is on you, not me.
Still using backwards logic here. Water Clones using inferior jutsu=/=Proof that Water Clones can use superior jutsu.
The fact you are asking me to counter instead of just proving what you claimed to begin with only shows that you can't prove it.
Ok then.
Which doesn't even begin to change my point.
All this is stuff you've said above, and stuff I've replied to. This whole post is probably going to boil down to one fact. You don't have proof. Proof of people w/ less chakra using techniques that are nowhere near GSB in scale isn't proof that Kisame can use GSB w/ a clone that has 10% of your chakra. Not sure why I have to spend over 1 post explaining this to you.
No, I didn't. It just doesn't prove your point.
Wrong.
Don't need to prove that it uses up a ridiculous amount of chakra, I only need to show that it's scale far surpasses that of the measly water wall you've hinged your argument upon. It's your job to prove that Kisame can use GSB w/ 10% water clones. Inferior Kakashi using an inferior jutsu isn't solid or even reliable proof no matter how you look at it, it's just as simple as that and that's as simple as it's ever going to get.
Lol.
What you are ignoring is that GSB>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Water Wall. What you are ignoring is the fact that in
You must be registered for see links
individually spit Suiton surpassing what Kakashi did against Itachi. You are ignoring that fact so you can keep saying "high leveled" to make your argument seem more valid. Then there's the fact that Tobirama's Jutsu was on a higher level than what Kakashi showed.But in reality, you are comparing Kakashi's clone using a fodder level jutsu (in comparison) to Kisame's clone using something like GSB. The sheer size tells you the difference in the amount of chakra needed to use it.
Whether or not it's his strongest doesn't even begin to change my point.
We've seen Kisame's arsenal, and offensively, GSB is his strongest jutsu. The only jutsu that is a larger scale would be his Water Dome, so it'd be the second strongest actually. Doesn't really change my point. And once again. You keep showing me clones using weaker techniques to prove that Kisame can use a stronger one. That makes absolutely no sense. This is getting pretty ridiculous.
WD vs. GSB is irrelevant. The point is, GSB is on a completely different scale than any of these Suiton you are showing me, so I'm not sure why you think your argument makes sense.
I'll start countering when you start backing your claims with real evidence, and not this flimsy stuff I've been seeing. You keep tossing the words "High leveled Suiton" out like they mean something, while forgetting that this:
You must be registered for see images
is nowhere near the scale of this.
You must be registered for see images
If they were anywhere near the same level, you'd probably have a point, but they aren't, so you don't. It's also funny how you keep talking about this "high leveled suiton" while casually ignoring the fact that fodders in Part 2 spit Suiton at that level, and Mei's Water Wall dwarfs the one Tobirama used, and hers is nowhere near the scale of GSB. Nowhere near.
Literally a repeat of your main point. Kakashi being inferior to Kisame in chakra doesn't mean that Kisame's 10% clone can use a jutsu that's far above the scale of what Kakashi used at 10%. You've given zero evidence to prove that the difference is large enough to substantiate your claim, so now you're asking me to disprove something, that doesn't even exist to begin with.
I concede this point.
Rank only shows how hard it is to use the jutsu, so this is irrelevant.
FRS and Bijuu Dama are both S Rank, yet Bijuu Dama obviously costs much more chakra. Water Wall is B Rank, yet Mei's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kakashi's when it comes to scale.
Lol, the fact that you think it not being the strongest, and instead the second strongest would discredit my argument in any way only shows that you didn't read properly.
blazekev90
Active member
I'm not denying that Kisame has the ability, simply referring to the scan you provided.
You must be registered for see links
This scan better proves your claim, but it also illustrates that Bee was in fact losing the breathe as the same time. This seemed to be the case in the scan you presented.
Nonetheless, as I expressed earlier, the argument that Kisame has the advantage soley due to his ability to drain chakra is mute, as Orochimaru does as well. So, while Kisame absorbs Orochimaru's chakra, Orochimaru can do the same w/ either spores and physical connect.
Also, generally speaking GSB could be easily evaded if Manda is present. GBS has no speed feats and we've witness Manda avoid direct (point blank) attacks in the past. Therefore, the matter in which GSB is successful is subjective. If GSB were to miss, as its shown to be a linear attack, Kisame would be wide open for a counterattack from behind or underneath.
RustledJimmies
Banned
I know, I was just explaining what happened in that scan.
I was going to post that scan, but since Bee had the chakra cloak surrounding him, it could be used as a counter argument. And I highly doubt that losing breath was the case, considering that he was fine in the previous page, and only begins to seem drained after Kisame hits him, while the latter notes that Bee's chakra is nearly at its end. Regardless, Evani and BAC2 already posted a more clear scan for that point.