An easy way to tell it's Oro is basically like this...
Take away all of their jutsu and would they be useful? For, Oro the answer is obviously yes as seen in the show...
For jiraiya, he wouldn't be able to summon toads. He's instantly useless( can be seen in sannin 3 way when he summoned tadpole) and would only have his hair and taijutsu to rely on... Most, if not all konoha jounin would be able to take him.
When it comes to tsunade, what is she without her strength and byakugo/medical jutsu? Just a regular jounin who's good at taijutsu. Rock Lee would probably be able to take her at that point.... But, seeing as you can still mold chakra, its possible she would be able to use her strength and byakugo. In which case, she'd be pretty strong, but armless Oro would still take her.
Jiraya can decimate Suna by himself(one of the 5greatest countries):
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Hiruzen always wanted Jiraya to become Hokage:
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Only sannin who managed to achieve SM even. Orochimaru failed in it. Jiraya by aquiring SM entered a different tier than the rest of his sannin partners
Itachi > Orochimaru
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Itachi admitted inferiority to Jiraya
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Pain(Akatsuki leader) admitted he would have lose if Jiraya had knowledge
Jiraya can decimate Suna by himself(one of the 5greatest countries):
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Hiruzen always wanted Jiraya to become Hokage:
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Only sannin who managed to achieve SM even. Orochimaru failed in it. Jiraya by aquiring SM entered a different tier than the rest of his sannin partners
Itachi > Orochimaru
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Itachi admitted inferiority to Jiraya
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Pain(Akatsuki leader) admitted he would have lose if Jiraya had knowledge
You CAN NOT use ABC logic when it comes to these characters. Plus Orochimaru admitted that in part one, not saying he can beat Shitachi now, but he got stronger.
Orochimaru> Jiraiya
I also believe that Orochimaru is the strongest Sannin. He is definitely stronger than Tsunade. Jiraiya is debatable, but I see Orochimaru beating him more times than not.
You CAN NOT use ABC logic when it comes to these characters. Plus Orochimaru admitted that in part one, not saying he can beat Shitachi now, but he got stronger.
Orochimaru> Jiraiya
No ABC logic you say? The point of the thread is to know who is the strongest sannin in the manga, not to know who would win against who. In the manga logic, Jiraya is simply the strongest sannin
No ABC logic you say? The point of the thread is to know who is the strongest sannin in the manga, not to know who would win against who. In the manga logic, Jiraya is simply the strongest sannin
Jiraya can decimate Suna by himself(one of the 5greatest countries):
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Hiruzen always wanted Jiraya to become Hokage:
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Only sannin who managed to achieve SM even. Orochimaru failed in it. Jiraya by aquiring SM entered a different tier than the rest of his sannin partners
Itachi > Orochimaru
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Itachi admitted inferiority to Jiraya
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Pain(Akatsuki leader) admitted he would have lose if Jiraya had knowledge
The irony is that in one of your scans tsunade says jiraiya couldn't stop Oro.
Forgetting scan where hiruzen called Oro a prodigy among those losers?
What about the one where Oro would have been 4th hokage, if not for minato?
What about the scan where Oro says he pours his senjutsu chakra into curse marks? Does that mean... Yes, yes it does. Orocan collect natural energy and has some form of sage mode, even if it's a watered down version like cursed mark. That's even more confirmed by the fact that kabuto said he didn't have SM only because he didn't have a body that could handle it...yet.
Implying itachi wouldn't shit stomp jiraiya in a similar situation. Unlike Oro (who's leagues above jiraiya in genjutsu) jiraiya wouldn't even be aware he was in a genjutsu from the onset.
Forgetting Oro took on a 4tails in a spontaneous battle.... While being rejected by his body(sick)... Without his jutsu. Jiraiya on the other hand nearly died after intentionally unlocking a seal and taking on 4tails in perfect condition.
Forgetting scan where hiruzen says no one in konoha could take on Oro? Only Minato stood a chance. Yes, hiruzen had to use the dead guy, not Alive and healthy jiraiya.
Implying pain didn't mean jiraiya wouldn't just no to go straight for his real body and kill him. Oro and even tsunade with Intel would take out pain. They'd simply run the fk away and leave a summon behind to stall while they GG crippled nagato quickly
Implying Oro wasn't strong enough to solo the even stronger village of konoha. The second Oro threatened konoha, anko ran straight to hiruzen and they both tucked their tails between their legs and did what Oro said, hoping he wouldn't good game their village.
The final nail is the fact that, in 2 years, Oro made Sasuke a demi god while jiraiya made naruto a demi fodder.
The only debate is whether armless Oro can take on the sannin. Anything beyond armless Oro is not even debatable.
There's so many instances where Oro was blatantly called stronger than the other sannin.
Actually the reason SM counts as Jiraiya's power is because of the fusion. Otherwise it wouldn't be his power..
Manga clearly shows a difference between a person's own power, and having the summons as your power. Having the summons as your power is the same as having a army under your control. Thought you guys were logical enough to understand the concept of a "Edo ARMY".
In the end Sanin are meant to be equals, fans can b*tch and moan all about. But that is the sole truth.
The irony is that in one of your scans tsunade says jiraiya couldn't stop Oro.
Forgetting scan where hiruzen called Oro a prodigy among those losers?
What about the one where Oro would have been 4th hokage, if not for minato?
What about the scan where Oro says he pours his senjutsu chakra into curse marks? Does that mean... Yes, yes it does. Orocan collect natural energy and has some form of sage mode, even if it's a watered down version like cursed mark. That's even more confirmed by the fact that kabuto said he didn't have SM only because he didn't have a body that could handle it...yet.
Implying itachi wouldn't shit stomp jiraiya in a similar situation. Unlike Oro (who's leagues above jiraiya in genjutsu) jiraiya wouldn't even be aware he was in a genjutsu from the onset.
Forgetting Oro took on a 4tails in a spontaneous battle.... While being rejected by his body(sick)... Without his jutsu. Jiraiya on the other hand nearly died after intentionally unlocking a seal and taking on 4tails in perfect condition.
Forgetting scan where hiruzen says no one in konoha could take on Oro? Only Minato stood a chance. Yes, hiruzen had to use the dead guy, not Alive and healthy jiraiya.
Implying pain didn't mean jiraiya wouldn't just no to go straight for his real body and kill him. Oro and even tsunade with Intel would take out pain. They'd simply run the fk away and leave a summon behind to stall while they GG crippled nagato quickly
Implying Oro wasn't strong enough to solo the even stronger village of konoha. The second Oro threatened konoha, anko ran straight to hiruzen and they both tucked their tails between their legs and did what Oro said, hoping he wouldn't good game their village.
The final nail is the fact that, in 2 years, Oro made Sasuke a demi god while jiraiya made naruto a demi fodder.
The only debate is whether armless Oro can take on the sannin. Anything beyond armless Oro is not even debatable.
There's so many instances where Oro was blatantly called stronger than the other sannin.
Just like Naruto couldn't stop Sasuke. There was no mention of a 1 vs 1 fight... =]. And Hashirama called a young tsunade a monster...Also, Sasuke is called a "prodigy".... so Sasuke > Naruto? no. Prodigy has no meaning in the Sanin.
Orochimaru has never been called stronger than the other sanin..... especially not in Kishimoto's manga.
So this basically turned into a hype shitstorm.
Well,Pain a self proclaimed God wanked the shit out of Jiraya saying that he would lose had Jiraya full intel on the paths
Funny how you guys argue when the manga has put scenarios in which one is superior than the other in some aspects and viceversa... Kishi has made it pretty clear, they are equal in battle and prowess. They all had 35 in DB scores also.
I never noticed that wasn't Manda in that picture... Interesting. However, the fact still remains that the swamp can be expanded much larger. Jiraiya was hardly able to mold chakra in that fight. Shown when he summoned Gamakichi, instead of Gamabunta.
By Gamabunta being snake food you mean this?
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He was already pulling Manda from it's tail out of the ground. Tsunade throwing the sword was only to subdue Manda.
You got it in reverse. He thought he held Manda's head but that was a trick from Manda. Gamabunta would have been eaten alive if Tsunade hadn't intervened. Read the pages before that, you'll see
You got it in reverse. He thought he held Manda's head but that was a trick from Manda. Gamabunta would have been eaten alive if Tsunade hadn't intervened. Read the pages before that, you'll see
Funny how you guys argue when the manga has put scenarios in which one is superior than the other in some aspects and viceversa... Kishi has made it pretty clear, they are equal in battle and prowess. They all had 35 in DB scores also.
Scans that show they are equal in battle prowess...? Just because their name even suggests that, doesn't mean it's true. In example; Hiruzen's "God of Shinobi". However, based on manga feats, he's a pretty basic kage level ninja. While his overall skill trumps that of most ninja he lacks the proficiency in one area that most of top 10 need to stay in top 10. I don't even think Hiruzen breaches top 15 IMO...
Jiraya can decimate Suna by himself(one of the 5greatest countries):
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Hiruzen always wanted Jiraya to become Hokage:
You must be registered for see links
Only sannin who managed to achieve SM even. Orochimaru failed in it. Jiraya by aquiring SM entered a different tier than the rest of his sannin partners
Itachi > Orochimaru
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Itachi admitted inferiority to Jiraya
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Pain(Akatsuki leader) admitted he would have lose if Jiraya had knowledge
This is a terrible argument and you should know better.
1st. Point being? This is Orochimaru, not Suna. Also, that's Jiraiya's own words. By that logic, DSM Kabuto is the closest thing to the Sage in the world and compared to him, the Uchiha are nothing.
2. Another failed point. Orochimaru was in a host body, not his own.
3. ABC logic? Don't make me laugh.
Besides, Itachi > Jiraiya. Use your brain and think about this: Why would Itachi kill Jiraiya for a petty reason? He wouldn't. He lied to Kisame to get out of killing Jiraiya.
4. Again, what's your point? ABC logic? Pathetic again. Orochimaru is Orochimaru, who has different abilities and experiences and knowledge than Pain.
This is a terrible argument and you should know better.
1st. Point being? This is Orochimaru, not Suna. Also, that's Jiraiya's own words. By that logic, DSM Kabuto is the closest thing to the Sage in the world and compared to him, the Uchiha are nothing.
2. Another failed point. Orochimaru was in a host body, not his own.
3. ABC logic? Don't make me laugh.
Besides, Itachi > Jiraiya. Use your brain and think about this: Why would Itachi kill Jiraiya for a petty reason? He wouldn't. He lied to Kisame to get out of killing Jiraiya.
4. Again, what's your point? ABC logic? Pathetic again. Orochimaru is Orochimaru, who has different abilities and experiences and knowledge than Pain.
You seem to not understand that DSM is not the same as TSM, DSM shown no frog katas or was said to have the same training. The aspect of the training is the only thing that's seem to be the same which are learning to see/sense natural energy, learning to absorb it, need to be still, balancing your chakra with the same amount of natural energy. Plus Orochimaru took his power back from Kabuto and didn't touch Kabuto's power, Suigetsu thought Orochimaru was going to but that doesn't prove that Orochimaru could take chakra that's not his.
He still has the capability to release a Sennin transformation and absorb chakra. You people act like Orochimaru's going to sit there and watch Jiraiya achieve SM.
You act like he can take chakra that's not his, he only took his chakra/power from Kabuto which is what released the SM nothing else. TSM is different than DSM, The use toad oil to help their training, would snakes have toad oil? No. And you act like Oro can stop Jiraiya from going SM when Pain couldn't, Obviously Jiraiya shown that he can go SM even against a kage level ninja.
He got all the info from Kabuto too. And there is no such thing as a perqonal summon. A summon is a summon, any contractor can summon it if they have the knowledge and the ability. Oro knows about Manda 2, he can summon it. He has a snake contract, Manda 2 is a snake (which is in the snake cave) so what's to oppose Oro summoning it ?
Idk, He might or he might not but as for now I have to go with no. There can be a personal summoning since Kabuto created Manda II, since he was created, that doesn't put him under the same contract as the other snake does it? Yes Kabuto used Manda's DNA but he also changed it to make Manda II stronger. Naruto has the DNA/Genes from his parents but he still had to sign the toad contract even tho Minato signed it. Kabuto could have put Manda II in the snake cave with the other snake but that doesn't mean he's under the same contract.
I don't get the part "literally made the summon to where he can only summon it"
What's that supposed to mean ? Kabuto merely created a snake from Manda's DNA and Sasuke doesn't know about Manda 2. How could he ? He never even saw the thing
Kabuto creating Manda II means he's not under the same contract as the other snakes unless Kabuto placed him there but why would he when he created Manda II?
Orochimaru used his rebirth jutsu, Kabuto didn't cut of Oro's head did he? No. He survived most deadly attacks using his Rebirth jutsu and he didn't survived the 4 tails tbb, he managed to have the majority of the blow taken by the gates which allowed Oro to live. He didn't take the tbb and survive so I wouldn't use the term "Survive". A Base Rasengan is a high rank jutsu that can injure-kill people so Oodama rasengan or chou Oodama rasengan would force Oro to use rebirth jutsu but it drains a lot of chakra and will weaken Oro the more he uses it as shown in his fight with Naruto.
Beat them? Is that what you call retreating? Orochimaru couldn't use his hands but his health wasn't that bad of a shape as Jiraiya's who was physically weakened, he could barely throw a kunai and was only at 30% chakra level. Tsunade was blindly striking at Oro and Kabuto, hitting the landscape which tired her out, then they mentally broke Tsunade down why using her fear of blood against her. Show me scans where Orochimaru drained massive amounts chakra that wasn't his chakra, where he used Mayfly and where he used zetsu spores. Knowing about the jutsu is different than being able to use it.
The irony is that in one of your scans tsunade says jiraiya couldn't stop Oro.
Forgetting scan where hiruzen called Oro a prodigy among those losers?
What about the one where Oro would have been 4th hokage, if not for minato?
What about the scan where Oro says he pours his senjutsu chakra into curse marks? Does that mean... Yes, yes it does. Orocan collect natural energy and has some form of sage mode, even if it's a watered down version like cursed mark. That's even more confirmed by the fact that kabuto said he didn't have SM only because he didn't have a body that could handle it...yet.
Implying itachi wouldn't shit stomp jiraiya in a similar situation. Unlike Oro (who's leagues above jiraiya in genjutsu) jiraiya wouldn't even be aware he was in a genjutsu from the onset.
Forgetting Oro took on a 4tails in a spontaneous battle.... While being rejected by his body(sick)... Without his jutsu. Jiraiya on the other hand nearly died after intentionally unlocking a seal and taking on 4tails in perfect condition.
Forgetting scan where hiruzen says no one in konoha could take on Oro? Only Minato stood a chance. Yes, hiruzen had to use the dead guy, not Alive and healthy jiraiya.
Implying pain didn't mean jiraiya wouldn't just no to go straight for his real body and kill him. Oro and even tsunade with Intel would take out pain. They'd simply run the fk away and leave a summon behind to stall while they GG crippled nagato quickly
Implying Oro wasn't strong enough to solo the even stronger village of konoha. The second Oro threatened konoha, anko ran straight to hiruzen and they both tucked their tails between their legs and did what Oro said, hoping he wouldn't good game their village.
The final nail is the fact that, in 2 years, Oro made Sasuke a demi god while jiraiya made naruto a demi fodder.
The only debate is whether armless Oro can take on the sannin. Anything beyond armless Oro is not even debatable.
There's so many instances where Oro was blatantly called stronger than the other sannin.
You seem to forget Tsunade was talking about when Oro left Konoha and Jiraiya tried to bring him back, not kill him. Don't blame Minato for Oro not becoming Hokage, Hiruzen started to pick Jiraiya as Hokage because Orochimaru's darkness that was coming to light. It was changing to Jiraiya because Tsunade said Hiruzen wanted Jiraiya to be Hokage but as we all know, Jiraiya didn't want to be hokage.
Poured his senjutsu? Oro said himself that it was Juugo's senjutsu chakra when he said Sasuke was compatible to Juugo
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so your natural energy comment is invalid. Do you read the manga? Jiraiya was not in the village, he wasn't a leaf shinobi anymore. He retired and left years ago, learn to read please. By your logic that means Oro>Itachi. People who aren't in the village didn't count in that statement. It was even said that only one of the sannins could take on Oro.
As for the Pain comment, leaving a summon to distract them? 1 Pain body can take on the summoning which leaves 5 bodies on you. Plus Nagato can just turn off all the bodies and will have full use of all his Rinnegan's power as shown with edo Nagato. Pull Tsunade and shoot her with his Laser then pull out her soul. Summon Lizard which is invisible, Pull Oro and shoot missiles at Orochimaru who survives with his rebirth jutsu. keeping doing that same process and Oro is out of chakra and/or is weakened due to his health getting worst as he push himself. Plus he can just summon the Pain bodies and start using them again if he choose.
Spontaneous battle? Oro egged Naruto on to see his power, Oro choose to fight that battle instead of summoning a snake then leaving. And Orochimaru was is good shape but after using his rebirth jutsu a few times then he started to feel weakened and reread, he did have use of his hands and jutsus. He can use his arm for a short time after switching bodies, he told the other Sannins he had another way to get his arms and it shows the lady body he's in. Jiraiya only open the seal "slightly" and Naruto went 4 tails which is way more chakra, Jiraiya intended to have Naruto go Version 1 4 tails for their training and was caught of by surprise. Plus he wasn't trying to hurt Naruto unlike Orochimaru.
Oro needed to trick the Sand village in helping him so no he wasn't strong enough to solo Konoha. Anko simply informed Hiruzen since he's the Hokage and Anko was the one who wished Minato was still alive. Hiruzen, Kakashi, Gai, Asuma, Anbu are all in the village, if Oro soloed then he would died since Hiruzen is the closes to his power and this is in his old age, others would just create an opening for Hiruzen to take him down.
Final Nail? Wow I laugh at that, Sasuke left Konoha before Naruto and trained for 3 years where as Naruto trained for 2 1/2 years. Jiraiya focus the majority of Naruto's training of learning to control Kurama's power which he did up to Version 1 3 tails cloak form. He tried to open Naruto's seal slightly to continue the natural process, Version 1 4 tails cloak but instead too much chakra came out and he went Version 2 4 tails. Overall Naruto was still stronger than Sasuke so don't call Naruto demi fodder when you need to rate Base Sasuke with Base Naruto and Naruto's strongest is Version 2 4 tails (at that time)while Sasuke's was CM level 2. 4 tails fought and almost killed Oro when he was in better condition than when Sasuke CM 2 surprised attacked a bed ridded Orochimaru.
I argued all your points with actual manga facts and not twisted/halve truth ones like yours had. Also for the Oro body couldn't handle it, that was not about SM, Kabuto was talking about Orochimaru not finding a body that could replicate Juugo's clan ability! SM does not have to do with the type of body you have, it's about if you have a large chakra reserve and the determination to fulfill the training (Or at least for the TSM) because it's all chakra related. You need a large reserve so you don't absorb too much natural energy since they start off using the oil to help you take in natural energy until you can do it on your own. Oro couldn't learn DSM for other reasons that wasn't about his body, that was about Juugo's ability being replicated.
You got it in reverse. He thought he held Manda's head but that was a trick from Manda. Gamabunta would have been eaten alive if Tsunade hadn't intervened. Read the pages before that, you'll see
And What's to stop Jiraiya from shooting a fire jutsu into Manda's opened mouth? He was using fire jutsus and his hair jutsu against Pain's summoning without his hands since they were palm to palm while he gathered natural energy. Jiraiya already shown to have counter to summonings and Pain's summoning are stronger than Manda or the Toads.
Just like Naruto couldn't stop Sasuke. There was no mention of a 1 vs 1 fight... =]. And Hashirama called a young tsunade a monster...Also, Sasuke is called a "prodigy".... so Sasuke > Naruto? no. Prodigy has no meaning in the Sanin.
Orochimaru has never been called stronger than the other sanin..... especially not in Kishimoto's manga.
naruto couldn't stop sasuke because sasuke was stronger. CS-V2 3tomoe sasuke >= 1 tail naruto. Even if naruto aimed for sasuke's chest, they'd both be comatose and it'd be a draw.
that hashirama statement isn't even worth answering. It doesn't have any place here and is obviously being used to attempt at a counter.
Yes, Sasuke > Naruto unless you can prove otherwise. PArt 1 sasuke was nearly always > naruto. Naruto gained a little traction when he got boss summonings. Excluding his Kyuubi modes, sasuke was leagues better than naruto. Including 1 tail, sasuke was around equal naruto. (obviously we won't consider 3tail + because that's beyond jounin level there). Hebi sasuke was lightyears ahead of team 7 combined; That's not even debatable. MS sasuke was leagues ahead of team 7... again. A blind, battle ridden sasuke still held his own nicely against them, and even almost killed them. EMS sasuke... I won't even go into it, but at the point of introduction EMS sasuke was > KCM naruto, then <= BM naruto, now EMS sasuke = SBM naruto as portrayed by kishimoto in his manga. So, what were you saying about prodigy not mattering? Yes, it does. Prodigy has a significant meaning when it comes to sannin.
naruto couldn't stop sasuke because sasuke was stronger. CS-V2 3tomoe sasuke >= 1 tail naruto. Even if naruto aimed for sasuke's chest, they'd both be comatose and it'd be a draw.
that hashirama statement isn't even worth answering. It doesn't have any place here and is obviously being used to attempt at a counter.
Yes, Sasuke > Naruto unless you can prove otherwise. PArt 1 sasuke was nearly always > naruto. Naruto gained a little traction when he got boss summonings. Excluding his Kyuubi modes, sasuke was leagues better than naruto. Including 1 tail, sasuke was around equal naruto. (obviously we won't consider 3tail + because that's beyond jounin level there). Hebi sasuke was lightyears ahead of team 7 combined; That's not even debatable. MS sasuke was leagues ahead of team 7... again. A blind, battle ridden sasuke still held his own nicely against them, and even almost killed them. EMS sasuke... I won't even go into it, but at the point of introduction EMS sasuke was > KCM naruto, then <= BM naruto, now EMS sasuke = SBM naruto as portrayed by kishimoto in his manga. So, what were you saying about prodigy not mattering? Yes, it does. Prodigy has a significant meaning when it comes to sannin.
Wrong, Naruto not wanting to kill Sasuke is what allow Sasuke to win that fight. What the heck are you talking about? Sasuke wouldn't have been comatose, he would be dead, Naruto has Kurama's regenerating ability which is what would save him where as Sasuke didn't have any ability to survive an hole thru his body, he got that ability when he absorbed Orochimaru.
Hebi Sasuke was not "lightyears ahead of team 7" Go reread, Naruto was no where near full power or halve power, he was severely weakened after going 4 tails against Orochimaru and this is stated by Sakura, Yamato and Naruto himself. Naruto going 4 tails would wreck Hebi Sasuke since not even Orochimaru could have beat him and almost died and his sword which is said to have the power to cut things couldn't pierce the 4 tails so count out Chidori variations. 1 slash wiped out all of Oro's snakes. So don't even pull that cause I can pull up manga scans where it shows them saying how weak Naruto was and Naruto falling due to low fatigue and don't even say Sasuke can suppress Kurama's powers like he did cause Naruto was going to do that himself and in a fight Naruto just use the power without going to Kurama as shown when he wen 1-3 tails.
MS Sasuke was said to be weaker than SM Naruto and this was non fused to Ma and Pa Naruto to non Susanoo Sasuke. Frog song takes down Susanoo as shown when Kabuto's sound genjutsu did to Sasuke's and Itachi's susanoo, the need to be focused to have it up. A Blind Sasuke? Sasuke still had his sight and he was fighting only Kakashi who was winning. Sakura just got in the way and Naruto shown to be faster than Sasuke by saving Sakura (Sakura was right in his hands as he was going to kill her yet Naruto got her before he could stab her) and then Zetsu and Obito had to come save Sasuke so don't even start with that.
Madara stated 1 tail Beast have power comparable to the PS so the 1 tails is just as strong or stronger than PS. Yang Kurama (50% power) power matched 5 fully powered Bijuus and this was after Naruto used a lot of chakra in the war via 12 clones so BM is at least 5x stronger than PS. Now if you add in BSM which is like double Yang Kurama's chakra due to balancing natural energy with BM chakra, BSM chakra in equal to full Kurama but he's stronger due to SM enhancing of speed, power, durability, recovery rate, agility and stamina. So no Sasuke is not even in power but is on the same level just like how Izuna, Tobirama, Madara and Hashirama are on the same level yet Hashirama is far stronger.
