Orochimaru Is The Greatest Sannin: A Breakdown And Analysis

[Booker]

Jiraiya fans unite, I'm about to stomp all over this place.

Orochimaru has always seemed as the most impressive Sannin to me, due to his multitude of feats without his prime means of fighting, ninjutsu. But others insist that Orochimaru (In prime, with arms mind you) is not the strongest of the Sannin.

Now, I'm all game for hearing a good Orochimaru/Jiraiya debate from a user, but I'm done discussing Tsunade/Orochimaru because Orochimaru clearly is the better.

But Jiraiya I am willing to hear! His jutsu and summons are enough to put him around Orochimaru, but I'm still going to say Orochimaru >.

Now, It's true we have never really SEEN a 100% Orochinaru in action, aside from a few select spots in The Chunnin Exams and the attack of the Leaf, and even those times were underwhelming due to the fact that he only used Edo Tensei.


But it's also been stated that Orochimaru's own hobby was creating and perfecting ninjutsu; I beleive it's even stated he had mastered hundreds of Ninjutsu techniques. While we have never actually seen these techniques, it's safe to assume they are at least formidable since Orochimaru wouldn't waster his time on any jutsu that wasn't.

However, since that's not actually tangible evidence, let's focus on Orochimaru's feats one by one and compare them to Jiraiya.

(1) Fought a fully enraged 4 Tail Beast

This is my favorite example to use when explaining Orochimaru's strength; The dude fought a tailed beast with NONE of his ninjutsu (his specialty, mind you) and managed to fight in close to equal terms for a while with nothing but swords, snake summons, and taijutsu. Had he had his arms, I believe Orochimaru would have forced Naruto to go 5 or even 6 tails. This fight was also completely random, no preparation, where Orochimaru fought him for the kick out of it.

Compared now to Jiraiya, who, when faced with the exact same situation, was nearly killed. Jiraiya had prepared for the situation with sealing tags and was aware that Naruto could change, and was still nearly killed by the same beast that Orochimaru was contending with without his beloved arms.

(2) Battle of the 3 Sannin

Now for this fight I know that Jiraiya was weakened (what was it? like 30% power?) and Tsunade was *supposedly* not well off either, even though she seemed fine to me. But I digress...

Each side in this fight had help, as well. Orochimaru had Kabuto, and Jiraiya and Tsunade and Naruto.

Now, if we're being realistic, Kabuto didn't do much (anything) when the 3 Sannin and their summons were fighting. This automatically makes it a 2 v 1 against Orochimaru, with Manda vs Gamabunta and Slug-Whoever-That-Is.

Manda proves to be a challenge to both Gamabunta and Slug Chick. That's right, Orochimaru's summon manages to contend with TWO of the others, one of which is supposedly a counter to Manda *cough* bullcrap *cough*.

This should be a feat in of itself, as the 3 summons, unlike their masters, were at full power.

Moving on to the actual Jiraiya vs Orochimaru.

Now, Jiraiya was at 30% during this fight (guesstimate) while Orochimaru had none of his ninjutsu. Now, I don't know about you, but I'd rather have all of my techniques at 30% than to not have them at all. The fact Orochimaru contended with Jiraiya this way (and actually did fairly well) should be a flag as to how strong Orochimaru with his arms and ninjutsu would be.

Speaking of Orochimaru with arms...

(3) The Flashback

I love this scan, because it shows that Jiraiya and Orochimaru were once just like Naruto and Sasuke.

But to the point, Orochimaru not only escapes Jiraiya, but does it seemingly effortlessly. Take a look:

Spoiler

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Note this is Orochimaru WITH his arms.

Notice anything? How about the fact Jiraiya is huffing and puffing, and Orochimaru is basically flipping him off?

This should be a testament to how above Jiraiya Orochimaru is. With his arms, and with Jiraiya at full power too, Orochimaru escaped him effortlessly.

The argument could be made that Jiraiya became stronger in the few years later, but I highly doubt this, as it has no evidence. From what we know, Jiraiya had all techs then as he does now.

But that's my rant for now! I'll probably add more to it later, expand on some other things.

Keep in mind I'm no Jiraiya hater! I love his character and think he deserves a top 15 spot.

But, for me, Orochimaru > Jiraiya.

Note: I suppose, if this is popular enough, I could maybe make more in the future and perhaps one about *shudder* him being > Tsunade.

 

[hixa kuogame]

nope tsunade>

 

[Koha]

nope tsunade>

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[UchihaKyru]

i agree with this

 

[Nous]

Yes he is the greatest, but by strength, I still put them as equals.

 

[xen11]

I agree
He is the most versatile of all shinobi
Has a jutsu for almost every type of opponent or situation long range mid range and lclose fighting.
Does research and studies possible scenarios and solutions all the time.
Kakashi comes close due to his sharingan but he has the moral block that prevents him from reaching higher.
His personal philosophy and Konoha's philosophy do not go toghether.
After this the best thing is to start his own village with sasuke and his team.

 

[Da Best Ever]

I agree that oro is stronger but slightly because of oro's experiments and enhancements but jiraiya sage mode faced 6 pains and defeated 3. I'm not sure oro could have done that but oro is slightly above him. Oh and if your going to compare them to Naruto and sasuke say the whole truth yes jiraiya as a kid he was less than oro much like Naruto was to sasuke but look at Naruto and sasuke now

 

[Ngylle]

Wrong jiraya fought the 3 weakest bodies of pain.
when fought 6 he got wooped!

 

[Uchihajin Sasuke]

This is too obvious, Orochimaru have millions of forbidden jutsus unlike Jiraiya. He toyed with both Hiruzen and 4-tailed Naruto, found the best way to attain immortality, he cheated death several times successfully. The dude is a genius, a mad scientist that never stops growing. He easily put Tobirama down, and even Hashi praised him for it.

 

[Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg]

He had some of his weaker jutsus against KM Naruto... he just couldn't use hand seals (unfortunately)

 

[blazekev90]

I approve this message!!!!!

 

[Xlad]

Dat Orochimaru. He's a pretty unpredictable bastard and I like that kind of villain.

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

The greatest? Nope. That's Tsunade. As a Hokage, the worlds greatest medical ninja and the inventor of the medical ninja system, her reputation is greater.
The strongest? Yes, if he can use the Edo tensei. Without it, however, he is not stronger then his ex comrades. Kishi portrayed the Sannins equals.

 

[Troyg39]

Jiraiya didn't use SM during the 3 Sannin fight, yet towards the end of your post, you say that you doubt Jiraiya didn't get stronger as he got older because there's no evidence? Yea that pretty much did it for me with post.

Oro fought with a 4-tailed Naruto and won only because of his immortality jutsu. If it weren't for that, arms or not he would've suffered the same fate as Jiraiya. And this is a mad scientist like you said, so it's unlikely that Oro had no idea that a Jinkuryiki could turn cloak. And it's not like Jiraiya knew when Naruto would turn cloak. He doesn't have a clock that pin points these things. So you saying he was "prepared" for it makes zero sense. Sure he knew of a counter in case it happened, but by no means was he expecting it when it happened. The fact that he has no immortality jutsu and didn't die says more about his strength than you are giving credit, but I guess that depends on how you interpret it.

As far as what jutsu Oro knows, the fact of the matter is we don't know the effectivenesss of them. A big theme in part 1 was that strength=jutsu mastered, so it doesn't surprise me that Oro knows a lot of them. Remember Kakashi is said to know over 1000 and Hiruzen supposedly knew every jutsu that existed in the leaf, yet we've nowhere near a lot of jutsu from either of these ninja, so to say something like "we can assume they are effective" is nothing more than a speculation given on good faith because you are looking for evidence to support your Oro theory. That, my friend, is not the same thing as actual evidence. Simply put, you don't know the effectiveness of this other jutsu, because a jutsu may seem strong, but once used, depending on the ninja it can be turned to fodder. Plus, do you really want to use that type of nonsense as evidence? After all, Shadow Clone Jutsu is said to be a forbidden jutsu, and was hyped to be some kind of formidable justsu in part 1. Yet we see it's just a common, low-level jutsu compared to others, so it's highly possible that these other "forbidden jutsu" that Oro knows could be just as fodder. I mean there must be some reason the "genius" didn't use them right? Either way, we don't know what they are, so we can't use them as examples.

And as far as the Sannin battle, that was a battle more so against the summons than the Sannin themselves. Now while I understand that Manda was still his summon (which btw, Manda is dead now, Sasuke sacrificed him in that Diedara fight) and therefore apart of Oro's arsenal, the Sannin fight is still more so a reference to the strength of the summons, not of the Sannin. So it's usage as evidence is very loose.

Now I'm not saying all of this to disagree with your claim. The fact still remains that for the most part Oro was without arms for most of his time in the manga, so no matter how much I debate and challenge your evidence, I can not provide evidence of his limits because he's never had a chance to show us. So he still very well may be the strongest. But on the flip side, you have not shown enough to suggest that the examples you provided were the best of Jiraiya or Tsunade. As I proved earlier, clearly at the Sannin battle, during the 4 tails fight, and the first confrontation of Oro when they were younger, Jiraiya wasn't using his full power because we saw much later on that he had SM, meaning your examples neither reflect his best nor do they reflect Oro's best. Also, I understand you really want to discount Tsunade, but clearly from what we've seen in the Madara fight, she was nowhere near going full out during the Sannin battle, so the same applies to her.

I don't know what either ninja's "best" is, but who is better is still very much debatable. Tsunade is cut in half right now and still alive. Her Regeneration jutsu is something to be reckoned with for sure, expecially combined with her brute strength. Oro hasn't shown anything thus far that could kill her (especially if Madara hasn't killed her) and vice versa. So as it stands that match-up is a tie. Jiraiya actually might be the weakest from what we've seen so far, as he with Oro's immortality jutsu, Jiraiya is clearly the easiest to kill since he has no jutsu that can replenish his health or keep him alive. Then again, his sound genjutsu is so far the deadliest and most dangerous attack that any of them have shown, so he does have the edge on offense. We'll just have to hope that kishi devotes some time to explain their all about their strengths at some point. Oro could be the strongest. Maybe

 

[Hell Autarch]

Jiraiya fans unite? Well you failed, you only people you managed to unite were Orochimaru fans because there are NO Jiraiya fans capable of arguing with Orochimaru fans. It's obvious, every single Orochimaru fan whenever argues, provides solid points. The Jiraiya fans repeatedly post "JIRAIYA KILLED PATHS OF PATH!!!111"

 

[Naruto D Luffy]

I could agree more , nice ideas

 

[Booker]

Jiraiya didn't use SM during the 3 Sannin fight, yet towards the end of your post, you say that you doubt Jiraiya didn't get stronger as he got older because there's no evidence? Yea that pretty much did it for me with post.

Oro fought with a 4-tailed Naruto and won only because of his immortality jutsu. If it weren't for that, arms or not he would've suffered the same fate as Jiraiya. And this is a mad scientist like you said, so it's unlikely that Oro had no idea that a Jinkuryiki could turn cloak. And it's not like Jiraiya knew when Naruto would turn cloak. He doesn't have a clock that pin points these things. So you saying he was "prepared" for it makes zero sense. Sure he knew of a counter in case it happened, but by no means was he expecting it when it happened. The fact that he has no immortality jutsu and didn't die says more about his strength than you are giving credit, but I guess that depends on how you interpret it.

As far as what jutsu Oro knows, the fact of the matter is we don't know the effectivenesss of them. A big theme in part 1 was that strength=jutsu mastered, so it doesn't surprise me that Oro knows a lot of them. Remember Kakashi is said to know over 1000 and Hiruzen supposedly knew every jutsu that existed in the leaf, yet we've nowhere near a lot of jutsu from either of these ninja, so to say something like "we can assume they are effective" is nothing more than a speculation given on good faith because you are looking for evidence to support your Oro theory. That, my friend, is not the same thing as actual evidence. Simply put, you don't know the effectiveness of this other jutsu, because a jutsu may seem strong, but once used, depending on the ninja it can be turned to fodder. Plus, do you really want to use that type of nonsense as evidence? After all, Shadow Clone Jutsu is said to be a forbidden jutsu, and was hyped to be some kind of formidable justsu in part 1. Yet we see it's just a common, low-level jutsu compared to others, so it's highly possible that these other "forbidden jutsu" that Oro knows could be just as fodder. I mean there must be some reason the "genius" didn't use them right? Either way, we don't know what they are, so we can't use them as examples.

And as far as the Sannin battle, that was a battle more so against the summons than the Sannin themselves. Now while I understand that Manda was still his summon (which btw, Manda is dead now, Sasuke sacrificed him in that Diedara fight) and therefore apart of Oro's arsenal, the Sannin fight is still more so a reference to the strength of the summons, not of the Sannin. So it's usage as evidence is very loose.

Now I'm not saying all of this to disagree with your claim. The fact still remains that for the most part Oro was without arms for most of his time in the manga, so no matter how much I debate and challenge your evidence, I can not provide evidence of his limits because he's never had a chance to show us. So he still very well may be the strongest. But on the flip side, you have not shown enough to suggest that the examples you provided were the best of Jiraiya or Tsunade. As I proved earlier, clearly at the Sannin battle, during the 4 tails fight, and the first confrontation of Oro when they were younger, Jiraiya wasn't using his full power because we saw much later on that he had SM, meaning your examples neither reflect his best nor do they reflect Oro's best. Also, I understand you really want to discount Tsunade, but clearly from what we've seen in the Madara fight, she was nowhere near going full out during the Sannin battle, so the same applies to her.

I don't know what either ninja's "best" is, but who is better is still very much debatable. Tsunade is cut in half right now and still alive. Her Regeneration jutsu is something to be reckoned with for sure, expecially combined with her brute strength. Oro hasn't shown anything thus far that could kill her (especially if Madara hasn't killed her) and vice versa. So as it stands that match-up is a tie. Jiraiya actually might be the weakest from what we've seen so far, as he with Oro's immortality jutsu, Jiraiya is clearly the easiest to kill since he has no jutsu that can replenish his health or keep him alive. Then again, his sound genjutsu is so far the deadliest and most dangerous attack that any of them have shown, so he does have the edge on offense. We'll just have to hope that kishi devotes some time to explain their all about their strengths at some point. Oro could be the strongest. Maybe

Your post is hella long, so I'm just gonna touch on the whole Sage Mode deal with Jiraiya.

Just because Jiraiya didn't use it doesn't mean he didn't have it. Using Sage Mode comes with risks, and for Jiraiya was used as a last resort. This is because Jiraiya wasn't a perfect Sage, and everytime he went Sage Mode he ran the risk of losing control of the Natural Energy and turning into frog thing.

Besides, it's not like Sage Mode matters in a fight between Orochimaru and Jiraiya. Sage Mode takes far too long for Jiraiya to prep and go into, he would have absolutely no opportunity to go SM while fighting Orochimaru.

I've changed my mind, I'm gonna touch on a few other aspects...

It's safe to say Orochimaru's jutsu are at least Jiraiya's level. I personally think he's on Hiruzen's, but that's just me. Fact of the matter is that an armless Orochimaru is at LEAST on par with Jiraiya, so an Orochimaru with arms should be above Jiraiya, since he now has his prime means of fighting.

I love how you say, "He only lived because of his immortality jutsu". That's the whole POINT. The reason Orochimaru is so strong is because his opponent can't really put him down, as he'll just oral rebirth and try again. It doesn't matter if he got cut in half, because he stitched himself up again and was ready to go.

You also contradict yourself by saying that Oro only lived because of his immortality jutsu, then later go on to praise Tsunade's regeneration jutsu as the only reason she lived. Double standard?...

 

[the last shinobi]

I find it funny that pervy sage fans believe he took naruto for the purpose of training him to use the nine tails chakra but he wasn't perpared for the possibility that the some nine tails might come out during trainning. That was a clear 1 to 1 comparison, the sannin fight was damn near 3 v 1.5 and pervy sage fans call that an even fight the he won, also it isn't anyone else's fault that tsuande has a problem with blood that was why she could fight to her full potental, also oro stated she was the only one he didn't want to hurt in that fight (why she survived). Although i do contend that he would have killed pain had he know there were six not three and im not sure if oro could have done as well and I know pain would have kill tsuande 1 to 1 i think this would be an epic battle with Oro on top.

 

[Booker]

I could agree more , nice ideas

Should I make more of these???

For underrated characters??

 

[AlphaScythian]

Didnt read, didnt need to. Orochimaru is strongest sannin for sure, i still love jiraya thou