Onmyoudon: The Single Most Important Thing in Naruto

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Ohhh...I see the point you're trying to make now. By saying this, she has now given us a hint at the age of the Uzumaki's techniques. Like saying that they are a bit raw and to the point; "old fashioned" if you will. Leading us to the conclusion that they came before the modern day techniques....very nice.

Yes exactly, it certainly points that their techniques preceded modern day Ninjutsu, take for example the Shinigami Mask used to unseal the Shiki Fūjin, the mask is a Kagura Mask and is found in Shinto Shrines, the present day Kagura Dances are done both for entertainment and giving tribute to the gods, but the most ancient use and practice of Kagura even before the formation of organized Shinto was Kamigakari aka the possession of a Kami through a medium:

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Like the possession of the Shinigami

 

[TaBaYo]

Let me make this clear before I continue...I certainly agree with what you are saying. But "savage" is a hard work to shake off. Its possible she meant what you are saying, but I think the point she was making is that their techniques are a bit more brutal and cold than other clans. It seems she was focused more on the "way" they do things rather then their actual nature. So, to me, it doesn't really matter what exactly she said. "Brutal", "harsh", "savage", whatever she used was only directed towards the clans techniques...not the clan itself. At least that's how it read to me...

In anyways whether harsh or savage, their techniques were both. Notice that their sealing techniques were used to restrict the freedom of other entities which naturally they should be free. Restricting someones freedom, forcing it against its own will is kinda savage and harsh, but it needed to be done. Notice when she was talking about that, it was in the context of tailbeast and Fūinjutsus.
Which means SDO and TWG, both harsh or savege either is ancient or rough is still the same in that context.

It also ignores the fact that even if they were "not so nice" Rikudou's path was to follow peace. He would not have wished harm upon them. This calls into question his oracular abilities. You can extend that into the elder/younger son selection scenarios as well for that matter

Rikudou had a different view of how to attain peace in relation to his clans views. Thus as his clans sought to keep their way a secret,ie. how to manipulate chakra and their sealing abilities, Rikuduo thought that the way of peace to the world is by people knowing how to manipulate chakra. Thus after hime realising how to do it by means of the juubi, he taught it to the world. The world in its harsh and wickedness sought to misuse the art of ninjustu also and that resulted in even massive massacre which led to the dwnfall of his clan too.
This could be realise as he chose his younger who sought love with ninjustu over power with ninjutsu for the older brother.
So Rikudou had a positive outlook of ninjutsu practice in the world but it was misused by humans.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

We can say that the Uzumakis were a "cloistered" sect of priests, Rikūdo however wanted a more evangelical/missionary approach so he left his home and became a prophet.

 

[Hori]

Super cool thread! Very nicely done.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Rikudou had a different view of how to attain peace in relation to his clans views. Thus as his clans sought to keep their way a secret,ie. how to manipulate chakra and their sealing abilities, Rikuduo thought that the way of peace to the world is by people knowing how to manipulate chakra. Thus after hime realising how to do it by means of the juubi, he taught it to the world. The world in its harsh and wickedness sought to misuse the art of ninjustu also and that resulted in even massive massacre which led to the dwnfall of his clan too.
This could be realise as he chose his younger who sought love with ninjustu over power with ninjutsu for the older brother.
So Rikudou had a positive outlook of ninjutsu practice in the world but it was misused by humans.

Agreed...with most everything you said. But to the bold, you mean that eventually, over hundreds (thousands?) of years his decision to gift the world with Ninjutsu, something his clan vehemently opposed, ultimately lead to their extinction? And you actually just made me realize that. Wow, that is poetic. Ironically poetic. Thanks for the insight. In fact, this idea even gives me an idea for a thread.

Super cool thread! Very nicely done.

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it

 

[xxSasukEkUnxX]

The Sage is not an Uzumaki. Stop putting shit together that isn't there and making little connections + adding buddhism in the real world. Being a priest doesn't mean anything.

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

The Sage is not an Uzumaki. Stop putting shit together that isn't there and making little connections + adding buddhism in the real world. Being a priest doesn't mean anything.

Hey thank you for the comment and rebuttal. But when you say, "Stop putting shit together that isn't there" what exactly do you mean? If there is something I have said you disagree with or you see as non-factual could you be more specific?

 

[Gyakusetsu]

In anyways whether harsh or savage, their techniques were both. Notice that their sealing techniques were used to restrict the freedom of other entities which naturally they should be free. Restricting someones freedom, forcing it against its own will is kinda savage and harsh, but it needed to be done. Notice when she was talking about that, it was in the context of tailbeast and Fūinjutsus.
Which means SDO and TWG, both harsh or savege either is ancient or rough is still the same in that context.



Rikudou had a different view of how to attain peace in relation to his clans views. Thus as his clans sought to keep their way a secret,ie. how to manipulate chakra and their sealing abilities, Rikuduo thought that the way of peace to the world is by people knowing how to manipulate chakra. Thus after hime realising how to do it by means of the juubi, he taught it to the world. The world in its harsh and wickedness sought to misuse the art of ninjustu also and that resulted in even massive massacre which led to the dwnfall of his clan too.
This could be realise as he chose his younger who sought love with ninjustu over power with ninjutsu for the older brother.
So Rikudou had a positive outlook of ninjutsu practice in the world but it was misused by humans.

I hate to sound like a broken record but such actions would call into question his oracular abilities. Even if Rikudou didn't know what would happen at the time he showed the world Ninjutsu, he certainly would have known it by the time he chose the younger son's methods over the elder. By selecting the younger son's methods over the elder he would be setting the stage for more violence. I can entertain the first since I know SDO maintains that Rikudou did not have the Rinnegan until after he defeated the Juubi ( though I disagree as it calls into question Madara's & Nagato's lack of oracular ability) but establishing such an ability as part of the Rinnegan is problematic for all the reasons I have listed.

At some point Rikudou should have realized that he made the situation worse (evidenced by current state) by providing more effective weapons, a realization Sasuke appears to be having. Rikudou would have explained his mistake to his successors, but his successors never question that Ninjutsu is being misused. Their dispute is on the means to obtaining peace. In fact, nowhere in the manga does anyone feel (excepting Sasuke perhaps) or say that Ninjutsu is being misused. This conclusion would be the reader superimposing their own thoughts into the manga (not that I disagree) but assigning such beliefs without evidence is speculation.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I hate to sound like a broken record but such actions would call into question his oracular abilities. Even if Rikudou didn't know what would happen at the time he showed the world Ninjutsu, he certainly would have known it by the time he chose the younger son's methods over the elder. By selecting the younger son's methods over the elder he would be setting the stage for more violence. I can entertain the first since I know SDO maintains that Rikudou did not have the Rinnegan until after he defeated the Juubi ( though I disagree as it calls into question Madara's & Nagato's lack of oracular ability) but establishing such an ability as part of the Rinnegan is problematic for all the reasons I have listed.

At some point Rikudou should have realized that he made the situation worse (evidenced by current state) by providing more effective weapons, a realization Sasuke appears to be having. Rikudou would have explained his mistake to his successors, but his successors never question that Ninjutsu is being misused. Their dispute is on the means to obtaining peace. In fact, nowhere in the manga does anyone feel (excepting Sasuke perhaps) or say that Ninjutsu is being misused. This conclusion would be the reader superimposing their own thoughts into the manga (not that I disagree) but assigning such beliefs without evidence is speculation.

It's just like the Theological Problem of Evil and Free Will, if God is omnipotent then why does he allow evil to exists? and if he is omniscient then we don't truly have free will nor are we capable of sinning because our future actions are known to him before it's even actualized.

The solution to the first problem is that because God is also all-good (omnibenevolence), he allows evil to exist because out of these evils, some goodness can be achieved. The solution to the second problem is that despite God's precognition of an act before it is actualized, God himself does not directly act to interfere with the free will involved in the future scenario.

We could apply the same thing to Rikudou Sennin (albeit to a lesser degree of omnipotence and omniscience) we could say that Ninshuu had caused much strife and suffering (though it alleviated the condition compared to the pre-ninjutsu era which was described as much worse), but out of these "evils" goodness was still achieved by uniting the Shinobi World for a common cause (as we see now in the war arc) and by the end of the series, the Cycle of Hatred will cease. As for Rikudou's oracular abilities, he might have foretold the future (like the coming of Naruto, as he told the Bijuus) and even if he knew that the Shinobi World would be embroiled in war and violence, he also knew that ultimately this cycle of hatred will end. As it it is said in Latin "Ut Discas Pati" to learn is to suffer.

At some point Rikudou should have realized that he made the situation worse

No, the Pre-Ninjutsu Era was much worse according to Jiraiya:

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[Tebows Youth Group]

I hate to sound like a broken record but such actions would call into question his oracular abilities.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. How would it call into question his oracular abilities? Could you expand?

Even if Rikudou didn't know what would happen at the time he showed the world Ninjutsu, he certainly would have known it by the time he chose the younger son's methods over the elder.

First, I can't say I completely agree with the story about the two "sons", but I won't use that in my argument. However, I think there is a point you're missing about Rikudou's actions. Given what we have seen about his (or the Prophetic toad, depending on what you may believe) prophecies, we can assume that they are able to see very far into the future. For example the Sage foretold that the Juubi would be pieced together again hundreds (thousands?) of years before it actually happened. With this in mind, I think one could make the argument that Rikudo teaching the world Ninjutsu was not something he thought would be an instant cure for the world's problems, but that it would take time. One quote that comes to mind, "The night is always darkest before the dawn." While teaching the world Ninshu may have been initially detrimental, it would ultimately lead to humanity's salvation. Another example that comes to mind would be what Qui gon Jinn said of Anakin Skywalker. He assured Obi Wan that he would bring balance to the force, and of course, he would be proven correct. While Anakin may have initially whipped out the Jedi, seemingly bringing the balance of power to the Dark Side, he would eventually bring balance to the force by first, having Luke as his son and second, ultimately helping Luke succeed. Sorry, kind of a Star Wars fanatic. But the principle of Qui gon, and Rikudo are practically the same.

 

[HiddenSound]

Dammit. This is great. You're a real Orochimaru (ya know, cause he's into theories and Ninjutsu) Lol

 

[Tebows Youth Group]

Dammit. This is great. You're a real Orochimaru (ya know, cause he's into theories and Ninjutsu) Lol

Haha thank you. That's definitely a PLU5 R3P if I've ever heard one..

 

[Senju Bean]

I've read your thread about the sage and there's one thing that doesn't quite add up.
If Uzimakis can't use ninjutsu, and the S06P only could use ninjutsu after he became the Juubi Jin,
Then it must be that the Juubi altered the sage's DNA so that his offspring would be able to use ninjutsu. That is, all ninjutsu using clans are just derivative of the Senju or Uchiha.

That would be the explainion on why the Uzumakis can't use ninjustu using your premises.

But why is it that the Sage was said to have taught the world ninjutsu? I mean, I don't think the S06P would teach the world but exclude the Uzumakis. And even if he did exclude them, they should have caught on eventually right?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I've read your thread about the sage and there's one thing that doesn't quite add up.
If Uzimakis can't use ninjutsu, and the S06P only could use ninjutsu after he became the Juubi Jin,
Then it must be that the Juubi altered the sage's DNA so that his offspring would be able to use ninjutsu. That is, all ninjutsu using clans are just derivative of the Senju or Uchiha.

That would be the explainion on why the Uzumakis can't use ninjustu using your premises.

But why is it that the Sage was said to have taught the world ninjutsu? I mean, I don't think the S06P would teach the world but exclude the Uzumakis. And even if he did exclude them, they should have caught on eventually right?

The descendants of the Elder and Younger Sons were the Uchiha and Senjus only, the other Shinobi Clans descended from the Pre-Ninjutsu families/clans during Rikūdo's era.

Chakra Manipulation was already in existence before the birth of Modern Ninjutsu, Senjutsu and Fūinjutsu preceded Ninjutsu, so the Uzumakis were already Fūinjutsu users prior to the advent of modern ninjutsu

 

[BasedRikudo]

I don't think the juubi could have been the source of onmyoudon because of the "techniques based on onymoudon" line which sounds like onmyoudon is a sub-type jutsu like senjutsu and using these practices or even chakra type the juubi developed or copied this jutsu that blocks ninjutsu

 

[Senju Bean]

The descendants of the Elder and Younger Sons were the Uchiha and Senjus only, the other Shinobi Clans descended from the Pre-Ninjutsu families/clans during Rikūdo's era.

Chakra Manipulation was already in existence before the birth of Modern Ninjutsu, Senjutsu and Fūinjutsu preceded Ninjutsu, so the Uzumakis were already Fūinjutsu users prior to the advent of modern ninjutsu

So you're saying that the Uzumakis didn't use Ninjutsu since they already had a form of charkra manipulation? But that does not explain why they haven't used it at all. Ninjutsu is useful and I would imagine it to be a good addition to their arsenal.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

So you're saying that the Uzumakis didn't use Ninjutsu since they already had a form of charkra manipulation? But that does not explain why they haven't used it at all. Ninjutsu is useful and I would imagine it to be a good addition to their arsenal.

They are what are called "traditionalists" since they were a priestly sect, they adhere to their ancient practices and customs, so they opted to continue their traditional ancient Fuuinjutsu techniques (which were described by Kushina as ancient/rough) rather than follow modernity and practice modern Ninjutsu.

 

[Senju Bean]

Also, if all Ninjutsu came from the Juubi, what is the connection between the S06P and the people that learned ninjutsu from him?

The only way this can happen is if, by harnessing the power of nature via the Juubi,
the Sage gained knowledge of how to use ninjustu and then taught the world it's secrets.

In other words, people had the capacity to use ninjustu even before the Sage came along. They just didn't know the secrets to use it. And somehow, becoming the Juubi Jin, gave the Sage knowledge.

 

[Senju Bean]

They are what are called "traditionalists" since they were a priestly sect, they adhere to their ancient practices and customs, so they opted to continue their traditional ancient Fuuinjutsu techniques (which were described by Kushina as ancient/rough) rather than follow modernity and practice modern Ninjutsu.

That actually makes good sense. I'm curious, did they also avoid war as well? Perhaps they're also isolationists.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Also, if all Ninjutsu came from the Juubi, what is the connection between the S06P and the people that learned ninjutsu from him?

The only way this can happen is if, by harnessing the power of nature via the Juubi,
the Sage gained knowledge of how to use ninjustu and then taught the world it's secrets.

In other words, people had the capacity to use ninjustu even before the Sage came along. They just didn't know the secrets to use it. And somehow, becoming the Juubi Jin, gave the Sage knowledge.

Well the Juubi is the source of all Chakra and the progenitor of the world, so Chakra Manipulation that preceded Modern Ninjutsu (Senjutsu, Fuuinjutsu, and possibly the Samurai's Chakra Manipulation) were already in existence back then, but when the Sage encountered the Juubi, he was able to create modern Ninjutsu and taught it to the world.