[Discussion] Only using Sussano without eyes is possible plot hole, everything else in chapter

KCMNaruto

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can be Explained with logic.

Hello guys, after reading the latest chapter I found a lot of bothering manga scans and also found out that a lot of people call them plot holes and blame Kishi for lack of logic. To be honest, not everything in this chapter was plothole but still one could be possible plothole as I can not find legit explanation for it. Now let's move on

My Explanation about hard to understand or lacking logic things which happened in the newest chapter :

PART I :

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^^ Madara jumping in front of tailed beasts... was very stupid move from Kishi and completely senseless.

Instead Madara should use Wood release to restrain or try to restrain tailed beasts with wood god gates or wood dragons enveloping around them and absorbing their chakra. However Hashirama's words in previous chapter can explain how he did not use it:

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^^ Madara has smehow retrieved his past powers... , maybe it means that Madara was slowly retriving his powers along with flow of time. It could explain why he only used Fire release for first time... then Sussano in current chapter, as Wood release was acquired by Madara some time later.

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^^ Reason why Madara was able to survive this entire slaughter of tailed beasts made on him is not far fetched. It is due to Hashirama's healing powers:
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Also:
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^^ Do not forget that these healing powers of Hashirama(already great and haxxed) are enhanced via Senjutsu in Madara's Current body.

PART II :

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^^ However for blind Madara being able to use Sussano... I can not find proper explanation...no matter how much I try or from what point of view I look at it... it could not work...

Only explanation, still farfetched as hell could be this panel:
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^^ Madara has smehow retrieved his past powers... , maybe it means that Madara was slowly retriving his powers along with flow of time. It could explain why he only used Fire release for first time... then Sussano in current chapter. Next could be Wood release... etc.

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^^ However this manga panel make me curious... what if Mangenkyou technique as Sussano need be awoken with double eyes intact, but later can be used without them, but at much smaller scale and weaker.

It could go like that:

Awakening: Body+ double eyes
Weak use: Powerfull chakra present in body(This chakra produce power for eyes to use as Tobirama said while explaining about sharingan.)
Full power use: Body + double eyes

Tobirama explaining about Sharingan:
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it nothing convince you then consider it as change with Sussano made by Kishi

PART III :

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^^ The reason why Madara still lost his arm even while possesing such powerfull body, could be that Madara raised this certain arm above his head to protect himself from remaining output of tailed beasts swinging their tails. In short: Sussano took the most of hit but He has to protect himself with hand to cancel full output begind tails of tailed beasts.

We know that Kishi has some fetish to loosing of hands, maybe he think it looks badass on characters or something. The examples: Raikage lost his arm, Obito sacrificed his arm against Fuu and Torune, Jirayia lost his arm again six paths of pein and now Madara.

Jiraiya even in SM:
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Current Raikage:
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Obito:
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It looks like Hashirama's SM main abilities are: rapid healing/regeneration and being durable... however he still can be hurt and even lost his limbs in the end it seems.

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Now about how Zetsu found another Rinnegan... which should be in other dimenssion along with Nagato's dead corpse.

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^^ Nagato corpse along with both Rinnegan in his eyes got transported into Kamui dimenssion.

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^^ Obito also transported Danzo body into his Kamui dimenssion, but later it was shown:

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^^ However in this manga panel Danzo body is shown in Obito's laboratory with full stock of eyes.

Maybe same happened to Nagato's body and Rinnegan.

OR

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^^ Zetsu can copy signature of chakra from enemy and then transform in him allowing him to use all abilities. Maybe Zetsu transformed into Obito after being in touch with him, lol. This transofmration allowed him to use Kamui only two times... so he went after Rinengan in kamui dimenssion then came back and lost his transformation, emerging from ground next to Madara.

^^ Now about Madara implanting his eye in instant and sticking Zetsu arm to his half of hand almost instant. There is explanation:

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^^ Obito who posses Zetsu DNA... can easily reattach his arm with Zetsu goo/substance.

also here again:
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^^ Obito once again prove that transplanting eye and use it in short amount of time/almost instant can be done, so this is not plothole.

Thanks for reading !

Summary :
  • Madara surviving slaughter from tailed beasts is not far fetched due to possesing rapid Hashirama's healing powers enhanced with Sage chakra.
  • Madara using Sussano could be explained that the most of Sussano's power is present in the eyes while body still contain special powerfull chakra for eyes to use. This special powerfull chakra allows Madara to use much weaker and smaller(compare his legged Sussano as Edo and Current) scale.
  • The reason why Madara lost half of his arm in Tailed beast attack must be due to weaker Sussano not being enough to handle full output behind tails of tailed beasts so he had to raise his arm in defence manner to handle rest of output and it looks like remaining output being tails was enough to rip half his arm off.
  • Hashirama's Senjutsu main atributtes are: rapid healing powers + durable body. However while Toad SM is hard to wound/injure... it looks like body using Hashirama's SM can still be harmed and bleed.
  • Nagato's body along with Madara's Rinnegan was transported later to Obito's laboratory with stock full of eyes or White Zetsu copy signature of Obito's chakra then transformed in him and use Kamui to retrieve Rinnegan. He has only chakra for two Kamui to come in and come out. After that he reverted back to his original Zetsu look as he emerged next to Madara.
  • Madara can easily reattach his arm and transplant eye due to having compatible DNA. Hashirama's DNA which makes any healing/regeneration or surgery operation process much easier, also hashirama's rapid healing helps a lot. Now do not forget that it is enhanced with Sage chakra so the limit may know no bounds. Also Obito has done both things in past...and it was not plothole so here it is not either.
  • Sasuke's tranplanting Itachi eyes and merging with his own took some time only due to lacking Senjuu DNA which rapidly accelerates any process. If you want to call it plot hole fine, but compare Madara's transplanting process to Obito transplanting Rinnegan almost instatnly(both posses Senjuu DNA). However Madara has advantage that these eyes were originally his.

I Hope you will find it interesting and share your thoughts :)
 

Aquarius

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Criticizing someone is as easy as plucking fruit from a tree but making something is as hard as growing fruits on a tree so appreciate others work and if possible criticize someone as less as you can, You understand
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scorezor

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as far as i know , Itachi didn't needed to watch to the oponents eyes for him to do a genjutsu , did he? did you get my point?
 

gutSy Sage

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There are a lot of missing arms in the narutoverse
 

TaBaYo

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Good work done for all the explanations and spot on illustrations.

About susano without eyes, think of this, anytime Itachi and sasuke uses a powerful eye technique, blood oozes out of the eye. Never have I seen them use susano for blood to come out of the eye.
Although u need the eyes to Awaken it, after awakening, usage of it does not depend on the eye, it depends on the cells and chakra of the person. Sasuke felt pains in every cell of his body not his eyes during the Kage summit when he used susano.

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Thus even when one closes his eyes, he wld still be able to use susano if he has already awaken it.
 

roncato

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Yep, Madara survived Tailed Beasts attack cuz he has sage mode.
 

Sexy Jutsu

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Good work done for all the explanations and spot on illustrations.

About susano without eyes, think of this, anytime Itachi and sasuke uses a powerful eye technique, blood oozes out of the eye. Never have I seen them use susano for blood to come out of the eye.
Although u need the eyes to Awaken it, after awakening, usage of it does not depend on the eye, it depends on the cells and chakra of the person. Sasuke felt pains in every cell of his body not his eyes during the Kage summit when he used susano.

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Thus even when one closes his eyes, he wld still be able to use susano if he has already awaken it.

You are just making sh*t up. He felt pain through all the cells in his body and that's why he couldn't use Susano? LOL.
 

iKaras

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Why does Susanoo burn the eyes out instead of other parts or senses

-Like losing the ability to hear.

-losing the ability to feel.

-losing the ability to smell.
 
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Mr Hiru

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as far as i know , Itachi didn't needed to watch to the oponents eyes for him to do a genjutsu , did he? did you get my point?

I do. He could use his ring.

In the end it is the use of Yin powers, that's not hard to understand.
 

Ohhdang

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Why does Susanoo burn the eyes out instead of other parts or senses

-Like losing the ability to hear.

-losing the ability to feel.

-losing the ability to smell.

Maybe you don't understand the story of the sage and his two sons if you are asking questions like that
 

Senju Bean

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It's because he has the Sage's body, not a Senju body, the Sage's body. It's all documented here.


 

Ero sennin jiraiya

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I agree with basically all of this but Susanoo being used without eyes is still kinda ridiculous. Sasuke basically ruined his eyes using Susanoo and Madara can use it without even having his eyes.

Obviously i understand the reasoning for it, and figured it out shortly after reading the chapter, but you cant deny it's kind of an ass pull on Kishi's part. At this point I guess anything goes since Madara has been absorbing jutsu without the Rinnegan as well.
 
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Armathyx

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Please shut up, nothing in this chapter had logic, you're just a Kishi fanboy who provies him plotshield.
 

edwinblack

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Susanoo w/ no eyes is like not using hand signs for Jutsu

1.Kakashi used to use Hand signs for Chidori but not anymore.
2.Yamato states "Water with my left hand & Earth with my Right to form Woodstyle, But later he uses the Woodstyle with 1 Hand.
Same aspect I suppose, Although I want a logic answer for Madara+No Eyes= Susanoo. The Equation just dont make sense.
 
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