"One-True" Religions Cannot Grant Success In The Afterlife

HowDidIGetPrem

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I figured I'd beat this dead horse of a topic because it helps me vocalize how I feel about the dominant religions. When religion is claimed to be bad, people tend to reply that "religion isn't bad, people using religion as an excuse for evil are bad." I always agreed with what that reply is saying in its literal sense, but also hated the implication that the religious text itself is completely fine. I've also always hated the followup that would always follow the reply that these evil and murderous, "not-true" sects are different, in regards to authenticity, from the other "true" sects. In shorter words, I believe "non-true" sects are just as authentic as "true" sects and that religious text IS evil or, at least, morally compromised.

Before I get into that though, I want to make some disclaimers and clarification. Firstly, I do not think all Christrians, Muslims, Jainists, or whatever are evil or like the Taliban. I get that the biggest threat to Muslims are other Muslims, which is proof enough that they're not the same. Next, by "One-True" religions, I mean exclusionary religions in which you're only granted heaven/afterlife-success if you follow a specific text and/or practices. Hinduism and the like avoid being grouped here because they are very open in regards to who succeeds upon death. Lastly, my usage of sect refers to literal sects and to religious members with very similar cultural tendencies even if they aren't recognized as official sects.

I'll first explain why religious text is evil/morally dubious because doing so will make it easier to understand why evil sects are just as authentic as other sects. Everyone agrees that some religious leaders use religion for evil, but those who use it as a defense usually don't acknowledge that it is often those same leaders who chose what the Quran or Bible contains or how either is commonly interpreted. Additionally, the texts are heavily warped by the culture, which were ancient and are not ideal standards for modern times, they were created in. E.g. Islam's covering of women derives from the culture not the other way around and was not a concern originally, translations of the Bible are not exact and it shows a trend (revealing of the Leaders' bias) of submitting women to men in areas where the "original," Hebrew Bible does not, and many bits of the Bible and related (but non-canon for most sects) scripture are blatantly from the Pagan communities that they conquerored as a tool to facilitate integration after conquest.

That is to say that the texts as we know them are not simply words waiting for evil or good to interpret them, but already influenced by both evil and good. It also is to say that a religion's true practices and rules are constantly being muddied and already muddied because religion cannot separate itself from cultural influence. This is why we in the US are having religious people saying getting vaccinated violates their religious rights, which not the Bible but talking heads have led them to conclude. Religion is too influenced by decades of culture to ever remain "pure" or "true," and this is why you get Christians and Muslims that defy, cut, or reinterpret its writings to either be more kind or brutal.

So for a religious sect, whether morally good or bad, to go "those of another sect/religion are destined for failure because they do not follow the religion as intended," the reality of the situation is that they also do not follow the religion as it was intended because that is impossible. In other words, no one adhering to a "One-True" religion will achieve success in death unless their religion is actually wrong and a welcoming one is correct.
 

Urda

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I tried to make sense of your argument, but based on it, you come full circle. You are arguing interpretations of religious text and how you think those people should interpret them. You try to justify your argument by saying culture is written in the text and that culture is the cause of the problem. It seems interesting to read... Well, I tried.


It sounds like a rant in search of an explanation for why religious people do bad things based on their interpretation of a religious text. You basically accuse culture of being a tool used to spread violence or hatred. That is, of course, something that everyone would agree on. However, your argument falls flat or you are contradicting yourself because it is people's interpretations and the factors that influence them that matter. What exactly do you mean? In what way? People have the right to believe whatever they want. The text is not black and white. It's gray. Because of this, many people can explain it in any way they want and people will believe them. You're proposing to eliminate a component of what makes religion, religion. It is one of the best parts of what religion has to offer.
 
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Avani

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, I do not think all Christrians, Muslims, Jainists, or whatever are evil or like the Taliban. I get that the biggest threat to Muslims are other Muslims, which is proof enough that they're not the same. Next, by "One-True" religions, I mean exclusionary religions in which you're only granted heaven/afterlife-success if you follow a specific text and/or practices. Hinduism and the like avoid being grouped here because they are very open in regards to who succeeds upon death.

Umm .. You should not include Jain in the Abrahmic group of religions. Jain, Hinduism , Buddhists, Sikhism etc all Dharmic religion from India and have common elements. Jainism predates Budhhism and many Jains identify themselves as a sect under general umbrella of Hinduism only.

One-True" religion
I think the idea of "one true religion" itself is the most problematic term ever and cause of all the troubles.
It's sold as an idea of about being about only one supreme being out there in the whole universe but in reality it just means that
"the idea of god that I have, is the best and only truth" that the rest of the human species must adhere to. It's not about believing in there being only that one God whom people may interpret differently or theorize about differently, but that my "god" is the best.

It never surpassed that tribal concept of every tribe having their own god or there being multiple gods etc. Trying to convert others by threats or greed or outright torture and killing if they don't, is behaviour of the same tribalistic ambition of taking over everyone else or annihilate them.
 

minamoto

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I tried to make sense of your argument, but based on it, you come full circle. You are arguing interpretations of religious text and how you think those people should interpret them. You try to justify your argument by saying culture is written in the text and that culture is the cause of the problem. It seems interesting to read... Well, I tried.


It sounds like a rant in search of an explanation for why religious people do bad things based on their interpretation of a religious text. You basically accuse culture of being a tool used to spread violence or hatred. That is, of course, something that everyone would agree on. However, your argument falls flat or you are contradicting yourself because it is people's interpretations and the factors that influence them that matter. What exactly do you mean? In what way? People have the right to believe whatever they want. The text is not black and white. It's gray. Because of this, many people can explain it in any way they want and people will believe them. You're proposing to eliminate a component of what makes religion, religion. It is one of the best parts of what religion has to offer.
wish u do that with my tobidara theory..but no u r so unfair and unjust that u get blinded from seeing teh truth..not to mention how u alwayz run away from debate..
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Umm .. You should not include Jain in the Abrahmic group of religions. Jain, Hinduism , Buddhists, Sikhism etc all Dharmic religion from India and have common elements. Jainism predates Budhhism and many Jains identify themselves as a sect under general umbrella of Hinduism only.



I think the idea of "one true religion" itself is the most problematic term ever and cause of all the troubles.
It's sold as an idea of about being about only one supreme being out there in the whole universe but in reality it just means that
"the idea of god that I have, is the best and only truth" that the rest of the human species must adhere to. It's not about believing in there being only that one God whom people may interpret differently or theorize about differently, but that my "god" is the best.

It never surpassed that tribal concept of every tribe having their own god or there being multiple gods etc. Trying to convert others by threats or greed or outright torture and killing if they don't, is behaviour of the same tribalistic ambition of taking over everyone else or annihilate them.
anavi@ ..i dont undstand what op is tryin to get at... can u sum up to me what he try to say????..
 

Legendary Saiyan

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Hmmm I'm not sure about religious texts being morally dubious or evil for that matter since faith is practically one of the first things a believer is required to have. If one does not have faith that the scripts didn't come from the word of God(s), then it's pointless to mull over.
 

Infant

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Spiritual bypass - the idea to use spirituality to hide what you're really feeling and avoid responsibility
Somewhat agreed.

Your point may be correct, but your usage of it is questionable. See, its not merely avoiding responsibility, but with reason. Society has been made into a place where everyone must be afraid to speak out honestly (something racists often note, but as an excuse for their own racism). So naturally, because feelings etc MUST be let out, people find ways of talking without having spoken.


I figured I'd beat this dead horse of a topic because it helps me vocalize how I feel about the dominant
See? (above)

Anyway. I think your points are very well based on evidence, but as Yursix said there is some contradiction in your way.

You point out some things people say, but in such a way as though its all deliberate and some people aren't just genuinely misinformed (and therefore, innocent). You're basically not giving them leeway to "be human". On the other hand, you have a few assumptions and logical jumps on your own side. You noted that the 'bad leaders' can misuse religion, but you assume every single part of it is under their influence (changing texts etc) to the very letter. You also limited this issue to "one true" religions, while corruption can exist everywhere. You also somewhat acknowledge core religion while simultaneously assuming that whatever is at the core cannot or has not any power to protect the important aspects of it - mainly the texts.


I think this is simply a case where we must be brotherly to one another. In recognising the flaws of others, we should be helping them overcome them instead of attacking each other for them.


Islam's covering of women derives from the culture not the other way around and was not a concern originally
This is why we in the US are having religious people saying getting vaccinated violates their religious rights
Otherwise, I very much agree with the evidence behind your points - there is a LOT of corruption out there. It wierds me out because so much of it is easily uncovered by basic reading of the texts to know what they ACTUALLY say instead of simply being nose-led by a corrupt leader and religion (by its own claims, at least) is so overwhelmingly important that any serious person should at least have read its text to check what's there.

The quoted are the two parts where I think you may be outright wrong the most.

The Bible (Abimelech, Origins of Moab and Ammon, Sodom and Gomorrah, Exodus Conquests, Covenant of Israel premises etc etc etc) reads a lot like the Middle East was a very morally and sexually promiscuous zone. Babylon!? So I highly doubt they would have been ultra-conservative with women and had them cover their heads. Perhaps some communities would have done that, but not the region in general. So I think Mohammed greatly introduced the practice, not the culture.

Vaccines, by definition, are the disease itself, no? So disease = impurity = unholy, no? So its quite logical for any purity oriented belief to be against vaccines.
 
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