Shisui: Akatsuki cloak! i am going to kill you
Kakuzu: I hate konoha, come at me bro!
Shisui: haha i have the greatest genjutsu which can only be used once a decade but i am going to use it right away in any battle anyway cause i dont care!
Kakuzu: huh?
Shisui: kotoamatsukami! stab your heart!
Kakuzu: shit! *stabs heart and falls to the ground*
Shisui: yeah KA one shot *turns away and starts to walk* Kakuzu: *kicks him to ground*, bitch please you are royally f*cked now, *releases masked monsters*
Yeah dont get me wrong Genjutsu is a great tool but it is not unbreakable by high level ninjas no matter what Genjutsu it is.I guess thats the main point im trying to get through
Well your wrong im calm and stuff like that doesn't bother me because the moment Kabuto realised Itachi wasn't a edo zombie and sent Nagato after him.Itachi was the one asking for help because hes smart.
I actually agree with celestial on this one, Itachi Hyped himself and his Dojutsu, And I have also made the point as to why KA will not work on any high level ninja.
Well your wrong im calm and stuff like that doesn't bother me because the moment Kabuto realised Itachi wasn't a edo zombie and sent Nagato after him.Itachi was the one asking for help because hes smart.
Damn i gotta get on this trolling business more often. Now i see why folks do it, its alot more fun that 'arguing', you still sound pissed off like damn.
On a more serious note, i would have to take my time with you in this thread and that is something im not willing to do, not with you anyway.
And nobody be getting owned like the dude above sprouting
Damn i gotta get on this trolling business more often. Now i see why folks do it, its alot more fun that 'arguing', you still sound pissed off like damn.
On a more serious note, i would have to take my time with you in this thread and that is something im not willing to do, not with you anyway
That sounds like you just can't come up with any counter's. So much for that amazing intelligence. Well you can walk away with your tail between your legs aaaa-bye-bye!
That sounds like you just can't come up with any counter's. So much for that amazing intelligence. Well you can walk away with your tail between your legs aaaa-bye-bye!
Damn i gotta get on this trolling business more often. Now i see why folks do it, its alot more fun that 'arguing', you still sound pissed off like damn.
On a more serious note, i would have to take my time with you in this thread and that is something im not willing to do, not with you anyway.
And nobody be getting owned like the dude above sprouting
I can see that this is not solely about the genjutsu. You guys can't predict a whole manga and its future fights based on the few instances that happened previously on the manga. Remember that Kishimoto is the one who writes it. Not every battle is won with genjutsu or just sheer power.
Why are you still complaining about this when Jiraya already said how to stop genjutsus??
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The big problem in genjutsu is to notice when you're caught in it. If you notice it, if you're skilfull enough, you can get out of it. But there are some exceptions obviously
Okay i thought my thread creating days where over but one of these days, id try and explain to you the different forms of genjutsu. From the basic genjutsu, to sharigan genjutsu, paralysis genjutsu either (eye) Magen Kasegui no Jutsu or Magen Gama Rinshō (sound). Then KA and tsukuyomi.
Infact just to save time id just upload a post i made a while ago;
Apart from the op genjutsu's like ka, tsukuyomi, izanami, simple genjutsu's can kill, but that isnt even the purpose of genjutsu. Its pains me whenever people say genjutsu doenst kill. The reason it doesnt kill is because that isnt the purpose of genjutsu. Genjutsu is to create an opening, deceive your opponent by controlling their senses. That is what genjutsu is about, its never been about killing you opponent, thats what allowed itachi to defeat oro and deidora in base. If he was to fight either one of them without genjutsu although he'd still win, it would be slightly harder. If you want to know the real purpose of genjutsu, go back and watch danzo vs sasuke or infact read what tobi says about sasuke's weak genjutsu;
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^^ That is the power of genjutsu, even a weak one.
Secondly although genjutsu is to deceive, fool or paralyse an opponent, genjutsu itself can kill an opponent even though that isnt the purpose and this is why;
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The ability to control your opponents 5 senses. If thats the case you can give your opponent false senses and even control them to kill themself and deidora wasnt too far away from doing that. So whilst the whole purpose of genjutsu isnt to kill, it can;
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Secondly there is no real thing as counter to genjutsu. Yagura and bee both fell victim to genjutsu. Bee fell victim to a regular sharingan genjutsu and this is what im trying to say. Its a tool that can depends on the user. Another example, itahi, kurenai and oro all have 5/5 for genjutsu and itachi shat on both in this wield with relative ease. Secondly doujutsu isnt a counter to genjutsu and tbh this fails a lot. Sure having a doujutsu helps you see that you in a genjutsu, but that doesnt mean you are immune. If you do not know that you are in one or have rubbish chakra control then you fall victim.
Its due to genjutsu albeit sound, that allowed jiraiya to defeat 3 paths. He tried ninjutsu and taijutsu based attacks and all proved futile, but it was genjutsu that got the better of the paths.
Secondly it seems people dont understand that apart from the super op genjutsu's, paralysis genjutsu and normal genjutsu are two different things. Normal genjutsu can be broken albeit a lot harder depending on the user. Paralysis genjutsu can also be broken BUT it takes longer to break because you have been paralysed.
Example is the Magen: Gamarinshou;
Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant (魔幻・蝦蟇臨唱, Magen: Gamarinshou)
Genjutsu, Senjutsu, No rank, Offensive, Supplementary, All ranges
Users: Shima, Fukasaku
When it reaches your ears, you're the prisoner of the demonic illusion
A one-hear certain kill vocal duet!!
The person who hears it is lured into a "genjutsu world that binds the mind"
When two or more toads come together and sing the secret musical scale passed down on Mt. Myouboku, the person who hears the harmony is lured into a "genjutsu world that binds the mind". Because learning it requires many long years of training, the husband and wife Great Toad Sage are the only one's with the skills to perform it. Databook 3, page 302-303
OR Mateki: Mugen Onsa;
GENJUTSU; Mateki: Mugen Onsa (Demonic Flute: Phantasmal Crotchets*)
User: Tayuya
Supplementary; Close, Medium, Long ranges;
Rank: B
Main text One of the genjutsu that rely on the sound of the flute. Whoever hears it will be assailed by the vivid sensation that their limbs have been fastened with sturdy ropes, thus becoming unable to move about freely. At the same time, they are fed morbid hallucinations, which makes it also possible to run them down mentally. Given that the means of transmission is sound-based, it has a large range of effectiveness, on top of which it can be applied even without knowledge of the enemy's position, which makes for an exceedingly convenient jutsu.
Databook 2 p.276
These 2 genjutsu's have affected doujutsu users so whats your point. U_U
Any way genjutsu depends on the skill of the user. Naruto was actually in the middle of breaking the finger genjutsu (as its been called) but itachi put more strain into it. Similarly oro was in the middle of breaking Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu but his hand was cut. Taking about this genjutsu i always facepalm when people say itachi got lucky to cut oro's hand off because they were near each other. That genjutsu is short range anyway therefore itachi used what was in his arsenal to good measure in that scenario when both were close in proximity;
Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique (魔幻・枷杭の術, Magen: Kasegui no Jutsu)
Genjutsu, Kekkei Genkai, No rank, Supplementary, Short range (0-5m)
Users: Uchiha Itachi, Uchiha Sasuke
A make-believe yoke piercing the limbs and body, completely snatching away one's freedom to move!! Once caught in the mind world created by the user, the victim will be tormented with the sensation of having wedges driven through their limbs, completely taking away their body's freedom. At the same time, the physical pain accompanying the illusion reveals the great use this technique has for primarily torture and such.
Im sure we all know how ka works but if you dont then here you go;
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Ao said and i quote " Its one of the most powerful eye techniques. His opponents woudlnt even realise they are being controlled . Focus closely at the highlighted part. The whole point of the technique is that you are controling your opponent without them realising.
So what happens if you go against this rule?. What happens if your opponents does realise they are being controlled. That means that if your opponent realises that they are under your influence, you break free from the technique because youve gone against it and as we saw, as soon as the secret of the technique was reviewed Mifune came back to his senses. He now knows he was being controlled and if you watch throughout the summit, he went back to being 'normal';
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So yes i believe if you go against the rule of the technique which is that your opponent can control you without you realising it breaks the technique. It goes against the rule of the technique and this is where itachi comes in.
Itachi knows of the technique and infact goes into more detail than Ao about the technique. He also confirms what Ao said when he said "shisui's eye create the most powerful genjutsu, able to control an individual without them knowing". Highlighted part is important, he said without them knowing;
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. But you see, going by itachi's words and he knows how the technique works and he knows that he is being controlled therefore the whole purpose/rule of the technique has been broken. So no i do not believe itachi is under ka anymore. That only set him free.
In short, the technique is to control an opponent without them knowing. If they know they are being controlled (mifune and itachi), they break the genjutsu because they have gone against how the technique works.
Okay i thought my thread creating days where over but one of these days, id try and explain to you the different forms of genjutsu. From the basic genjutsu, to sharigan genjutsu, paralysis genjutsu either (eye) Magen Kasegui no Jutsu or Magen Gama Rinshō (sound). Then KA and tsukuyomi.
Infact just to save time id just upload a post i made a while ago;
I read this all and all it seems like your trying to do is convince me Genjutsu is a powerful tool which it is but the purpose of this thread is to highlight that any Genjutsu can be countered
i dont believe having dojutsu makes the user immune thats like giving TenTen the rinnegan and saying she can counter KA.Ao clearly saw threw the genjutsu because of its nature and colour any decent chakra sensor could however breaking it may be a different story ...although if you know your in the genjutsu it seems to be able to be broken by normal means
By counter i mean being able to break out of it and that does not neccerarily mean they can break out of it in time just that Genjutsu can be broken if you have the right tools and techniques.That is all this thread is about and ive proven it.
I read this all and all it seems like your trying to do is convince me Genjutsu is a powerful tool which it is but the purpose of this thread is to highlight that any Genjutsu can be countered
i dont believe having dojutsu makes the user immune thats like giving TenTen the rinnegan and saying she can counter KA.Ao clearly saw threw the genjutsu because of its nature and colour any decent chakra sensor could however breaking it may be a different story ...although if you know your in the genjutsu it seems to be able to be broken by normal means
By counter i mean being able to break out of it and that does not neccerarily mean they can break out of it in time just that Genjutsu can be broken if you have the right tools and techniques.That is all this thread is about and ive proven it.
Ive always hailed genjutsu as the best form of ninja art out of the three and that doesnt even include the latest OP ones that the manga has introduced. Btw i just found and uploaded a theory i made about KA, ive included that aswell.
What im saying is that there are many forms of genjutsu that cannot be broken by normal ways. Some are harder to break and some cannot be broken unless there are requirements. Many forms of genjutsu and how they affect the opponent
I read this all and all it seems like your trying to do is convince me Genjutsu is a powerful tool which it is but the purpose of this thread is to highlight that any Genjutsu can be countered
i dont believe having dojutsu makes the user immune thats like giving TenTen the rinnegan and saying she can counter KA.Ao clearly saw threw the genjutsu because of its nature and colour any decent chakra sensor could however breaking it may be a different story ...although if you know your in the genjutsu it seems to be able to be broken by normal means
By counter i mean being able to break out of it and that does not neccerarily mean they can break out of it in time just that Genjutsu can be broken if you have the right tools and techniques.That is all this thread is about and ive proven it.
Ive always hailed genjutsu as the best form of ninja art out of the three and that doesnt even include the latest OP ones that the manga has introduced. Btw i just found and uploaded a theory i made about KA, ive included that aswell.
What im saying is that there are many forms of genjutsu that cannot be broken by normal ways. Some are harder to break and some cannot be broken unless there are requirements. Many forms of genjutsu and how they affect the opponent
You both have good points, but the manga belongs to Kishimoto. Even Sakura can break genjutsu. She also broke Ino's Mind Transfer Jutsu. It all depends on what Kishimoto wants to do with his manga.
Ive always hailed genjutsu as the best form of ninja art out of the three and that doesnt even include the latest OP ones that the manga has introduced. Btw i just found and uploaded a theory i made about KA, ive included that aswell.
What im saying is that there are many forms of genjutsu that cannot be broken by normal ways. Some are harder to break and some cannot be broken unless there are requirements. Many forms of genjutsu and how they affect the opponent
Basically your KA argument agrees with me that if you know your under that technique you can break it
Yeah im not saying Jounin level Ninja can break KA or Tsukuyomi but people with the tools and the abilities can and i believe Genjutsu is maybe joint 1st or 2nd as i believe Ninjutsu like CTB or Perfect Susanoo makes Genjutsu kind of futile
Anyway there is nothing left to argue you about we both seem to agree that although Genjutsu cannot be broken by everyone there are some high level ninjas that can break out of all uchiha genjutsu featured.Its debatable whether they can do it fast enough to evade a attack as Bee was rolling on the ground after Tsukuyomi....maybe people with knowledge can break it faster i have no idea
Yeah im not saying Jounin level Ninja can break KA or Tsukuyomi but people with the tools and the abilities can and i believe Genjutsu is maybe joint 1st or 2nd as i believe Ninjutsu like CTB or Perfect Susanoo makes Genjutsu kind of futile
Jonin level can break ka or tsukuyomi?. KA as the theory goes if its been brought to your attention then yes anybody could regardless of rank. If you do not know you are under the influence of ka rank doesnt matter. As for tsukuyomi id stick to the manga and databook entry
Anyway there is nothing left to argue you about we both seem to agree that although Genjutsu cannot be broken by everyone there are some high level ninjas that can break out of all uchiha genjutsu featured.Its debatable whether they can do it fast enough to evade a attack as Bee was rolling on the ground after Tsukuyomi....maybe people with knowledge can break it faster i have no idea
You keep on using bee to state that tsukyomi was broken the manga says either sasuke doesnt have it or his isnt on the same level as itachi's. Do i believe either ka or tsukuyomi will work on nagato?, yes
Its a theory i made a while ago, its not canon. Nothing more than a theory, which cannot be used in an argument, until its been stated in the manga/DB
Jonin level can break ka or tsukuyomi?. KA as the theory goes if its been brought to your attention then yes anybody could regardless of rank. If you do not know you are under the influence of ka rank doesnt matter. As for tsukuyomi id stick to the manga and databook entry
You keep on using bee to state that tsukyomi was broken the manga says either sasuke doesnt have it or his isnt on the same level as itachi's. Do i believe either ka or tsukuyomi will work on nagato?, yes
Its not really a theory if ive shown proof of it happening
In the manga itachi stated that the illusion technique Tsukuyomi as a technique could not be broken.It doesn't matter whether Sasukes is weaker because if Itachi was right it should not have been broken.
This isnt a Nagato vs Itachi thread however Nagato is a great Chakra sensor he would know hes in KA straight away he also has the Rinnegan able to Chakra like the Byakagun.Those two things alone mean its possible to break Genjutsu also hes disturbing Chakra through out his body constantly using different paths.
Tsukuyomi Nagato would know straight away he was in it he can also sense the pressure of MS techniques which seems to indicate he has prior knowledge of sharringan techniques however lets just say a miracle happened and he was caught+his summons were blinded
He would have to disturb his own chakra before he could get out...Tsukuyomi works by causing mental torture to the victim they cannot concentrate enough to try break it.Nagato is also stated to have Genjutsu Mind traps which would make it very difficult to attack Nagato through his mind it took Inos dad a day to get through i do not believe Itachi would be able to get through in a second.If all else fails Nagato would be left in a heap on the floor while Itachi comes up to him and then Nagato would use a Shinra Tensei without handsigns
Its not really a theory if ive shown proof of it happening
In the manga itachi stated that the illusion technique Tsukuyomi as a technique could not be broken.It doesn't matter whether Sasukes is weaker because if Itachi was right it should not have been broken.
This isnt a Nagato vs Itachi thread however Nagato is a great Chakra sensor he would know hes in KA straight away he also has the Rinnegan able to Chakra like the Byakagun.Those two things alone mean its possible to break Genjutsu also hes disturbing Chakra through out his body constantly using different paths.
Tsukuyomi Nagato would know straight away he was in it he can also sense the pressure of MS techniques which seems to indicate he has prior knowledge of sharringan techniques however lets just say a miracle happened and he was caught+his summons were blinded
1) Itachi said that said that only someone with the same bloodline limit can break through his Tsukiyomi.
2) That's a theory with no real evidence.
3) The pressure of Amaterasu can be sensed, but Tsukiyomi is a whole different technique. And of course Nagato knows when he's caught in Tsukiyomi, but you're saying that he could just disturb his own chakra? Itachi's Tsukiyomi affects you almost in instant, Nagato doesn't have the time to do it.
