[VS] One Rinnegan and One MS JJ Madara vs DMS Rikudou Kakashi

[Vanto]

rips Obito's eye out of his head and then proceeds to solo no prob

He then get sent to Kamui dimension and is now an immortal stuck in a locked dimension.

 

[Nagato The Sage]

He then get sent to Kamui dimension and is now an immortal stuck in a locked dimension.

Gudo Dama prevents warp

 

[Eng nawashi]

Gudo Dama prevents warp

Like it did in canon !!, sure

 

[Vanto]

Gudo Dama prevents warp

He may be able to detect the chakra coming from Kakashi eye but even then, without Obito's MS, fighting Kakashi is very dangerous, durability won't matter against kamui shurikens and he'll have to sacrifice too much gudoudama if he cannot dodge, he should be able to honestly but using normal moves could end up with Madara stuck in a cubic nightmare.

He's in a situation where making mistakes is death, and he's bound to make one assuming that Kakashi use his moves wisely.

Also, shouldn't the rikudo chakra in Kakashi give him the ability to at least glimpse the limbo clone ?

 

[Blunt]

.

Also, shouldn't the rikudo chakra in Kakashi give him the ability to at least glimpse the limbo clone ?

Nope, no Rikudo's Senjutsu to sense it, nor does he have a Rinnegan to see it. He can harm it due to the chakra, but it's irrelevant if he cannot see or sense it.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

He may be able to detect the chakra coming from Kakashi eye but even then, without Obito's MS, fighting Kakashi is very dangerous, durability won't matter against kamui shurikens and he'll have to sacrifice too much gudoudama if he cannot dodge, he should be able to honestly but using normal moves could end up with Madara stuck in a cubic nightmare.

He's in a situation where making mistakes is death, and he's bound to make one assuming that Kakashi use his moves wisely.

Also, shouldn't the rikudo chakra in Kakashi give him the ability to at least glimpse the limbo clone ?

He doesn't need to sense it. Feat wise it's not busting susanno and in the remote and highly improbable chance it does kakashi turns on intangibility to phase through all of its attacks. When it stops attacking he simply puts ps back up.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Madara can take this with high difficulty.

Using the Juubi tree he can destroy Kakashi's PS with Juubidama. He has no other way to destroy PS though. If Kakashi tries to warp the bijuu damas away with kamui, Madara can

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which is powered by the Juubi's chakra (Kakashi only received a portion of Rikudou's chakra). If Kakashi tries to use kamui shuriken to cut the Juubi tree down, Madara can warp away the shurikens like how Kakashi

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or intercept the shurikens with magatamas.

Agreed with everything here except one of the Kamui Shuriken counters. Madara isn't warping 4 Bijuu dwarfing Shuriken before they can reach his tree. Magatama might work, but then Kakashi can just turn off PS and phase through the Juubidama, or he can use PS to cut down the tree.

If Madara can use Shinsuusenju on a much more powerful scale than Hashirama (which would make sense because he has the juubi's chakra) then that can possibly bust Perfect Susanoo as well. I'm assuming Madara can't use all his Rinnegan techniques like Shinra Tensei or Chibaku Tensei, because he doesn't have both Rinnegans. I'll also assume Madara can't use PS without both his eyes...even though he used Susanoo with no eyes at all.

If he can use SS at all, then yes, he'd destroy Susanoo like that and be able to beat Kakashi. Otherwise he can't deal with Susanoo, by feats.

Yeah madara should win low-mid diff. He's too fast for kakashi to track for starters, & he has limbo + gudo damas to tank any kamui snipes that may tag him. Summoning the shinjuu eventually ends this if multiple CBT meteors don't first.

Oh so is this obito's eye? If so then madara simply phases through kakashi's susanoo & pierces him through the skull.

Uh what? EMS Sasuke was tracking Juubito during flight. There's no way that JJ Madara's flight speed is so much faster that he'd be untrackable to someone who has Rikudo's Chakra, which puts him far above the likes of EMS Sasuke. How would Limbo tank a Kamui snipe when Kakashi can't even see it? It's invisible. Though I do think that Madara can outright evade it.

How does summoning the Shinju end it? BM Minato escaped from a point blank releasing of the Shinju. Naruto w/o his Bijuu Cloak cut it in half. Kakashi has PS, and he can use just Kamui to phase through the Shinju during it's release, and then after it's done, he can turn PS back on and just cut up any incoming branches.

Then there's the fact that he can't even use CT w/o his other eye, as shown by him never attempting it until the moment he got his eye back.

No way does Madara win low-mid diff based on feats. The only way it'd ever approach that difficulty is if we gave him access to Shinsuusenju.

 

[Draphsin]

Uh what? EMS Sasuke was tracking Juubito during flight. There's no way that JJ Madara's flight speed is so much faster that he'd be untrackable to someone who has Rikudo's Chakra, which puts him far above the likes of EMS Sasuke.

Idk, I'm not really inclined to believe that obito's small amount of rikudou chakra gave kakashi the speed to surpass EMS sasuke in the tracking category. If there's any proof that that's the case then by all means I'd be open to it.

How would Limbo tank a Kamui snipe when Kakashi can't even see it? It's invisible. Though I do think that Madara can outright evade it.

As I was writing my reply to this I remembered that w/ double kamui it's been shown that someone can create portals

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, so he probably would be able to bypass limbo for that reason. But in any case I agree & don't see kakashi landing a snipe on madara.

How does summoning the Shinju end it? BM Minato escaped from a point blank releasing of the Shinju. Naruto w/o his Bijuu Cloak cut it in half. Kakashi has PS, and he can use just Kamui to phase through the Shinju during it's release, and then after it's done, he can turn PS back on and just cut up any incoming branches.

The shinjuu was dealing w/ multiple enemies & sucking up all of their chakra simultaneously, all of those branches will be aimed towards kakashi now. Yeah he can phase but only for 5 minutes, & yeah he can cut up the branches but that doesn't really stop the barrage that's going to be continuously heading his way.

Madara can even have his limbo clone attack kakashi at the most opportune moments. It definitely has the speed to get behind kakashi as he's busy & it definitely has the strength to send kakashi's PS flying towards more branches, even if he can't bust it w/ simple physical attacks.

Does kakashi's PS even have swords? EDIT:

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Then there's the fact that he can't even use CT w/o his other eye, as shown by him never attempting it until the moment he got his eye back.

Bruh, absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence. You're probably right but you can't use madara's lack of performing the jutsu as evidence to suggest he couldn't. I'll concede to him not using it here but not for this reason.

No way does Madara win low-mid diff based on feats. The only way it'd ever approach that difficulty is if we gave him access to Shinsuusenju.

Is the shinjuu not a buffed up shinsuusenju though? Sure SS is more DC oriented but the shinjuu's main purpose is to absorb chakra so it doesn't need DC. If the shinjuu's branches get cut up like you said then why wouldn't SS suffer the same fate? Is it faster? Don't really see what SS can do that the shinjuu can't.

 

[KeyofDestiny]

Idk, I'm not really inclined to believe that obito's small amount of rikudou chakra gave kakashi the speed to surpass EMS sasuke in the tracking category. If there's any proof that that's the case then by all means I'd be open to it.

MS Sasuke gets Itachi's Chakra and a Choku Tomoe EMS, and he gains the speed to track Juubito, and even before that gains the speed to react as fast as KCM Naruto.

MS Kakashi gets Rikudo's Chakra, Rikudo's Senjutsu Chakra to be exact, and you don't believe that he is faster than EMS Sasuke? Really? We've already seen what regular Senjutsu Chakra does to Madara and Naruto yet you are telling me a portion of Rikudo's Senjutsu Chakra isn't going to put Kakashi above EMS Sasuke in speed?

-Can easily react to Kaguya's chakra arms, which Naruto himself called fast. (From close range unlike Sakura)
-Can easily evade and massively outspeed them in Susanoo.

That's reason enough why Madara can't blitz or why he isn't fast enough to consistently weave around Kakashi's Susanoo attacks.

As I was writing my reply to this I remembered that w/ double kamui it's been shown that someone can create portals

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, so he probably would be able to bypass limbo for that reason. But in any case I agree & don't see kakashi landing a snipe on madara.

Yup.

The shinjuu was dealing w/ multiple enemies & sucking up all of their chakra simultaneously, all of those branches will be aimed towards kakashi now. Yeah he can phase but only for 5 minutes, & yeah he can cut up the branches but that doesn't really stop the barrage that's going to be continuously heading his way.

Multiple SA fodder, and even some of them survived the brief onslaught. Kakashi has the power to warp away large chunks of the tree at a time, and he has the power to cut it in half like Naruto did, so it really isn't an issue here.

Madara can even have his limbo clone attack kakashi at the most opportune moments. It definitely has the speed to get behind kakashi as he's busy & it definitely has the strength to send kakashi's PS flying towards more branches, even if he can't bust it w/ simple physical attacks.

Since when did Limbo have the physical strength to do that to Susanoo? Limbo was matching RSM Naruto in hand to hand, and I don't think that he can knock back Susanoo hard enough for it to lose it's balance and get hit by the branches without his Avatar.

Bruh, absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence. You're probably right but you can't use madara's lack of performing the jutsu as evidence to suggest he couldn't. I'll concede to him not using it here but not for this reason.

It's not that he didn't do it. It's that he clearly showed us that he wanted to do it so he could set up IT, but never attempted to do so until he had his other eye back. Instead he took a brief beating from Naruto and Sasuke, then used CT the moment he came back. That's reason enough to believe he couldn't do it without the eye. Absence of evidence argument isn't enough to cover all that.

Is the shinjuu not a buffed up shinsuusenju though? Sure SS is more DC oriented but the shinjuu's main purpose is to absorb chakra so it doesn't need DC. If the shinjuu's branches get cut up like you said then why wouldn't SS suffer the same fate? Is it faster? Don't really see what SS can do that the shinjuu can't.

-SS has a thousand hands.
-SS has more firepower.
-SS is faster if used on a Rikudo Level. Hell, it's probably faster even without considering Killer B was evading it's attacks.

The Shinju can absorb chakra, but it's branches were evaded by the likes of BM Minato and Killer B, and Naruto cut the tree in half with YRS. So even if Kakashi can't deal with all the incoming branches and Madara at the same time, he can just bisect the tree, ending it right then and there.

SS has the power to catch Kakashi's blade, and unlike the Shinju, he can't just bisect it with his blade, if it's being buffed by Rikudo's power.

 

[Draphsin]

Since when did Limbo have the physical strength to do that to Susanoo? Limbo was matching RSM Naruto in hand to hand, and I don't think that he can knock back Susanoo hard enough for it to lose it's balance and get hit by the branches without his Avatar.

Ok fair enough, you've made some good points & I'll pretty much agree w/ everything you're saying, but I'm almost sure that madara's limbo has the strength to knock kakashi's PS around. I mean madara w/ just a small portion of hashi's senjutsu was able to

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. & JJ madara has nearly as much if not just as much rikudou senjutsu as naruto so it's no surprise he was able to match him physically.

Due to the miniscule amount of rikudou chakra kakashi has, it's unlikely that his susanoo will have the strength to ward off madara's physical strength considering a PS w/ half of hagoromo's chakra was needed to match an avatar w/ half of his senjutsu [same avatar that

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by SM madara w/o that senjutsu].