[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 880 Discussion and 881 Predictions

[Love Cook]

I actually liked the scenes about the cake-preparation. Nothing special is happening, but the way they interact with each other is just amusing.

Kinda weird though, BM was able to use her DF power to place a piece of her soul into seawater? And what is she going to do with all that water? Place it in an aquarium? Either way normally this should be something Jinbei should be able to handle.



Why would Dogtooth take Luffy to Wano? He already made it clear that Luffy is too dangerous and now he has the perfect opportunity to eliminate him. The only reason I don't see him finishing Luffy off right now would be that he wants to make him suffer more and turn him into an example to show what happens when you defy BM.

What would he gain by taking Luffy to Wano?

Well it's just speculation at this point but the thing that makes Luffy dangerous is also the thing that made him valuable by pissing off the big shots in the new world.

At Fishman island Tamago convinced Big Mom to settle for treasure because the needed gold after Kidd wrecked some ships. So they're not swimming in cash. Whole Cake Island is in ruins, diplomatic relations are broken off and the WG has taken note of it all. Besides all that Big Mom still needs Ceasar back (who is also in Kaidou's crosshairs) she might be interested in the other road poneglyph.

Big Mom is on the middle of the ocean with just Perospero to back her up. That might even for a yonkou be a dangerous situation when facing off against Jimbei.

So I can imagine Luffy being traded for: Cash to rebuild, items of interest or Big Mom's safety.

Of course I can't imagine Kaidou handing over his poneglyph for Luffy but just putting it out there as possibility.

Also I didn't said taking him to Wano, I said towards Wano because he would be in pursuit of the SH's. The yonkou clash might happen there.

 

[Skull Knight]

4/5 chapter.
I liked how BM was riding that wave/tsunami thing and Nami's reaction was like we are dead.
I did feel Oda wasted too many pages on cake thing. He should have focused more on Luffy vs Katakuri fight.

 

[chopstickchakra]

4/5 chapter.
I liked how BM was riding that wave/tsunami thing and Nami's reaction was like we are dead.
I did feel Oda wasted too many pages on cake thing. He should have focused more on Luffy vs Katakuri fight.

About that, I know it's a homie but it's still water right? It wasn't the candy thing Perospero made was it? It didn't look like it but it'd have to be. Because how else could she stand on top of the water like that?

 

[Caliburn]

Well it's just speculation at this point but the thing that makes Luffy dangerous is also the thing that made him valuable by pissing off the big shots in the new world.

At Fishman island Tamago convinced Big Mom to settle for treasure because the needed gold after Kidd wrecked some ships. So they're not swimming in cash. Whole Cake Island is in ruins, diplomatic relations are broken off and the WG has taken note of it all. Besides all that Big Mom still needs Ceasar back (who is also in Kaidou's crosshairs) she might be interested in the other road poneglyph.

Big Mom is on the middle of the ocean with just Perospero to back her up. That might even for a yonkou be a dangerous situation when facing off against Jimbei.

So I can imagine Luffy being traded for: Cash to rebuild, items of interest or Big Mom's safety.

Of course I can't imagine Kaidou handing over his poneglyph for Luffy but just putting it out there as possibility.

Also I didn't said taking him to Wano, I said towards Wano because he would be in pursuit of the SH's. The yonkou clash might happen there.

Valuable to whom? That situation on FI made quite clear what kind of person BM is: she's a pirate and one of the Yonkou. If she needs money, she will take it and everything she has build up is centered completely around her person. If word gets out the Strawhats wrecked her place and got away with it, now that would tremendously embarrassing for her and might potentially weaken her position. Above all else the Strawhats have to die, there is no other option. That she would have let them all go just for money or materials would only worsen the situation and where is this money even supposed to come from?

Dogtooth likewise made it quite clear that Luffy is too dangerous as if he escapes now, the next time he might be powerful enough to actually take BM down. If the Strawhats would have that much money, Dogtooth could just take it himself after killing them and why would anyone else buy him? If they want to cash in on the Strawhats, they could get the bounties for their corpses.

And in regards to the Road Poneglyph I sincerely doubt that any existing attempts on trying to get it from Kaidou had their success rate increased by the Strawhats intervention. They have much more urgent matters to attend to right now than scheming how they would get Kaidou's RP. There is not even any sensible connection here between the two situations as how do you jump from Dogtooth fighting Luffy to Kaidou's RP? Especially because at this point all of them are improvising on short-term as no one expected that this is how things would end up.

Btw BM and Perospero are not alone, multiple ships are following them, and they are sailing towards Cocoa Island as it's there that the cake will be and where Sanji is. Don't think there's much difference either in saying "taking" or "towards".

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

Katakuri is playing right into Luffy's hand....Luffy is way stronger than Katakuri since he is faster and has a better DF....right???

OT: 4/5 If the first part of the chapter didn't take so long it would be 4.5

 

[Love Cook]

Valuable to whom? That situation on FI made quite clear what kind of person BM is: she's a pirate and one of the Yonkou. If she needs money, she will take it and everything she has build up is centered completely around her person. If word gets out the Strawhats wrecked her place and got away with it, now that would tremendously embarrassing for her and might potentially weaken her position. Above all else the Strawhats have to die, there is no other option. That she would have let them all go just for money or materials would only worsen the situation and where is this money even supposed to come from?

Dogtooth likewise made it quite clear that Luffy is too dangerous as if he escapes now, the next time he might be powerful enough to actually take BM down. If the Strawhats would have that much money, Dogtooth could just take it himself after killing them and why would anyone else buy him? If they want to cash in on the Strawhats, they could get the bounties for their corpses.

And in regards to the Road Poneglyph I sincerely doubt that any existing attempts on trying to get it from Kaidou had their success rate increased by the Strawhats intervention. They have much more urgent matters to attend to right now than scheming how they would get Kaidou's RP. There is not even any sensible connection here between the two situations as how do you jump from Dogtooth fighting Luffy to Kaidou's RP? Especially because at this point all of them are improvising on short-term as no one expected that this is how things would end up.

Btw BM and Perospero are not alone, multiple ships are following them, and they are sailing towards Cocoa Island as it's there that the cake will be and where Sanji is. Don't think there's much difference either in saying "taking" or "towards".

Let me just put it like this then because everything I came up were reasons for Dogtooth to keep Luffy alive. I understand Doftooth's perspective and that he wants Luffy dead.

But the problem with that is that Luffy is the main character. So we have Luffy in a situation where he is trapped in a DF world he can't control and facing an enemy he can't beat. So what are the options left ?

1) Luffy wins and Luffy returns
2) Luffy wins, cannot return to the Sunny
3) Fight is interrupted
4) Katakuri wins, Luffy escapes
5) Katakuri wins, Luffy doesn't escape

To be fair option 5 looks by far the most plausible at the moment. I think Katakuri has also a form of plotshield to keep the strongest family fighter relevant for next time. So that would mean Luffy is unable to beat him but somehow wont be killed. I think that Luffy's life only will be saved because Katakuri will need him alive for something.

EDIT:

I forgot !!

I'm changing my prediction to option 3, interruption of the fight. I think Papa Vinsmoke will come in with the save. He and his fam are the only ones still there and have a big army of elite soldiers to back them up.

That way Katakuri doesn't have to hold back to keep Luffy alive.

 

[Skull Knight]

About that, I know it's a homie but it's still water right? It wasn't the candy thing Perospero made was it? It didn't look like it but it'd have to be. Because how else could she stand on top of the water like that?

I think BM has put a part of her soul in that water because she thought Zeus betrayed her so it's time to replace it. I still believe Perospero is carring her. She is surfing now xD

Or Persospero in a desperate attempt to kill remaining SHs must have asked BM to take a part of his soul & put it in that wave thing. That way they can crush Sunny quickly.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

When your main highlight in the arc that was supposed to be centered around you is making a cake for an overgrown baby:

You must be registered for see images

 

[Love Cook]

When your main highlight in the arc that was supposed to be centered around you is making a cake for an overgrown baby:

You must be registered for see images

That is a sentiment that really only lives on this forum to be honest. When I go to AP Forums, people are loving that Strawhats are shining in different way besides putting them in fights over and over. Bottom line is that Sanji is still a cook and that is what he does best. And if he can save his friends, crew and family by making a cake to save them out of the hands of someone that can't be beat by fighting them. That is pretty cool.

Too bad for the people who have forgotten what One Piece stands for and are expecting serious fights all the time. This arc and the story of Sanji was amazing if you didn't ruin it for yourself by saying every chapter "Mehhh I wish Sanji would fight someone already". People were interpreting the year of Sanji as the power-up of Sanji. But that is on you for having false expectations.

Man, a lot of people were hoping for the culmination of Sanji's badassness in a fight, but to me, just seeing him in his natural element is the coolest thing ever. The same could be said for the other Strawhats.

The Sanji side of things is picking up momentum, looks like "offensive cooking" may indeed be the sort of treat we've been waiting for to reward all the downs he's had this past year.

Sanji was recruited by Luffy solely for his cooking. Any other capability that Sanji had was just a bonus. Doesn't matter if you remember Sanji more for his fights because they were showcased more than his cooking. Sanji's cooking skill is just as important than his leg fighting skill, if not more - it is part and parcel of his character. Heck, his timeskip training was all about elevating his cooking (along with his fighting) skill to greater heights by fighting the 99 New Kama Kenpo grandmasters to obtain every recipe..

Sadly we don't have many of these reactions like that in these parts, because the only discussions here are only about who is stronger, Character A vs B, who is on 2nd mate yonkou level, and how does that relate to admiral level.

It really is the simplest form of discussion, but I guess that is what you can expect within a One Piece section on a Naruto forum. Most people here probably got sucked in by Naruto and loved it for the simple fights, disregarding that One Piece is not Naruto.

If at the end of the arc the only thing you take away that Big Mom is an overgrown baby and that Sanji didn't shine because he didn't have a big fight, that's not on Oda, but on you. You have been posting these shallow salty baseless one liners for over a year now.

I guess there is no pleasing someone like you when Big Mom controls fire and thunder, walks through the earth and surfs the seas. Smacks away Gear 4th like it's a tickle and sucks Luffy's energy out in seconds. But yea totally an overgrown baby...

 

[raha]

I think 2 thing have been forgotten completely:
First: I do not think Germa66 will escape like rats because it will without a doubt hurt their pride and fame badly so in the next chapters I think we will see some serious action taken by Germa66 literally to help Straw Hats
Second: We haven't seen any serious action from Jimbei , Knight of the seas, who recently joined the crew, specially that we have seen some little actions from him against katakuri using water and also against sun like power of BM, and now two of their most importent issues are fire in the ship and also katakuri's DF's ability ... So I think we will see some serious actions from him too and next chapters will be more Sanji+Jimbei Chapters
.
.
There are also some other unknown parts like Bege's crew,Pekoms and Jimbei's Crew ... are they completely gone or they will take some actions too? who knows

 

[Dannie]

Even if Sanji bakes the cake, how are they certain that it will save them? I mean, once they give her the cake, they're still gonna have problems with BM. Unless Pudding wires her memories so far back where Luffy challenged her on the Den Den Mushi, they will never be clearly out of the water with BM.

Also, I have seen a lot of people have problems with the cake baking thing, but it is not because of Sanji actually baking the cake, moreso that Oda has dragged and shifted this arc to a whole other thing. People, including myself, was hyped asf back when the whole cake fell because of the exploding box and how the SH's were about to escape and leave off the island until BM started chasing them. People were expecting more 1v1's with Sanji like against Ichiji or maybe even one of Big Mom's subordinates, and didn't really expect him to be dealing with a yonko by baking her a cake and dehyping what has happened earlier and turning everything into a snooze fest.

There are many things wrong with this arc, which goes WITH Sanji's character of why people are also disappointed with him.

-Arc has been labeled the "Year of Sanji", but other characters such as Brook, Jimbei and even Luffy to an extent has had outstanding moments of either doing some majorly epic or jaw dropping things like Brook stealing the Poneglyphs from BM or Jimbei standing up to BM announcing removal of the crew, which would overshadow Sanji or make Sanji's character in this arc pale in comparison. Notice how these moments that I just listed above are not even battle oriented, but simple epic instances. Sanji freeing the Vinsmokes while standing on the table or him dodging one of Katakuri's jelly beans might have been a cool thing to see at that moment but people were more hyped over other things that were crucial or otherwise more epic which overshadowed what Sanji has done.

-Sanji's chivalry annoys people, and when you have a character like Pudding, set up to look like this evil little witch that wants to harm his crew, and all Sanji can do is call her eye beautiful and bake a cake with her, well people are gonna scratch they're head and have problems.

-Sanji's character has not been developed enough, and focused too much on an aspect that we either already knew or really didn't care, which is his kindness. We already knew that Sanji was a kind man that cares for his crew, so seeing him finally tell Judge off and even being asked "why did you save us" by the very man who made your life hell, is only pushing this aspect of Sanji that is not even needed.


>BM has looked underwhelming compared to Katakuri, one of her sweet commanders, which shouldn't be the case.
I don't remember Marco or Jozu outshining and making WB look like he didn't deserve the title of yonko, but that is what we are getting with BM. She is a candy crazed idiot and many people are turned off by this character trait, especially considering she is a yonko and we are supposed to be seeing her doing some devastating shit while she is struggling to even capture or destroy half of Luffy's crew. This is nothing but a sad little kid chase.

It is not just about seeing Sanji fight every single man he comes across, but with the addon of seeing a pitiful yonko in action, when most people only care about Katakuri and Luffy at this point, Sanji rescuing the crew by giving to her needs with his specialty of baking a cake that will probably not even 100% fix everything is disappointing and lame.

 

[Love Cook]

Even if Sanji bakes the cake, how are they certain that it will save them? I mean, once they give her the cake, they're still gonna have problems with BM. Unless Pudding wires her memories so far back where Luffy challenged her on the Den Den Mushi, they will never be clearly out of the water with BM.

Also, I have seen a lot of people have problems with the cake baking thing, but it is not because of Sanji actually baking the cake, moreso that Oda has dragged and shifted this arc to a whole other thing. People, including myself, was hyped asf back when the whole cake fell because of the exploding box and how the SH's were about to escape and leave off the island until BM started chasing them. People were expecting more 1v1's with Sanji like against Ichiji or maybe even one of Big Mom's subordinates, and didn't really expect him to be dealing with a yonko by baking her a cake and dehyping what has happened earlier and turning everything into a snooze fest.

There are many things wrong with this arc, which goes WITH Sanji's character of why people are also disappointed with him.

-Arc has been labeled the "Year of Sanji", but other characters such as Brook, Jimbei and even Luffy to an extent has had outstanding moments of either doing some majorly epic or jaw dropping things like Brook stealing the Poneglyphs from BM or Jimbei standing up to BM announcing removal of the crew, which would overshadow Sanji or make Sanji's character in this arc pale in comparison. Notice how these moments that I just listed above are not even battle oriented, but simple epic instances. Sanji freeing the Vinsmokes while standing on the table or him dodging one of Katakuri's jelly beans might have been a cool thing to see at that moment but people were more hyped over other things that were crucial or otherwise more epic which overshadowed what Sanji has done.

-Sanji's chivalry annoys people, and when you have a character like Pudding, set up to look like this evil little witch that wants to harm his crew, and all Sanji can do is call her eye beautiful and bake a cake with her, well people are gonna scratch they're head and have problems.

-Sanji's character has not been developed enough, and focused too much on an aspect that we either already knew or really didn't care, which is his kindness. We already knew that Sanji was a kind man that cares for his crew, so seeing him finally tell Judge off and even being asked "why did you save us" by the very man who made your life hell, is only pushing this aspect of Sanji that is not even needed.


>BM has looked underwhelming compared to Katakuri, one of her sweet commanders, which shouldn't be the case.
I don't remember Marco or Jozu outshining and making WB look like he didn't deserve the title of yonko, but that is what we are getting with BM. She is a candy crazed idiot and many people are turned off by this character trait, especially considering she is a yonko and we are supposed to be seeing her doing some devastating shit while she is struggling to even capture or destroy half of Luffy's crew. This is nothing but a sad little kid chase.

It is not just about seeing Sanji fight every single man he comes across, but with the addon of seeing a pitiful yonko in action, when most people only care about Katakuri and Luffy at this point, Sanji rescuing the crew by giving to her needs with his specialty of baking a cake that will probably not even 100% fix everything is disappointing and lame.

That's a matter of opinion and taste, and a lot of what you're doing is cherrypicking. Sanji being part of the narrative for over a year also means he is part of the low points, and he still is getting his grand finale with Big Mom.

Oda hinted he will bake a cake to knock Big Mom out. So maybe there is something in the cake.

Also the Vinsmokes are bound to show up to help Luffy and do something about the 3 hour gap.

It's to early to criticize Oda, this arc as a whole is pretty good, but people are too impatient to read it as a weekly.

Besides Big Mom has to stay relevant for the next clash, so Oda has to use her and family members with the handbrake on.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Even if Sanji bakes the cake, how are they certain that it will save them?

Spoiler

I mean, once they give her the cake, they're still gonna have problems with BM. Unless Pudding wires her memories so far back where Luffy challenged her on the Den Den Mushi, they will never be clearly out of the water with BM.

Also, I have seen a lot of people have problems with the cake baking thing, but it is not because of Sanji actually baking the cake, moreso that Oda has dragged and shifted this arc to a whole other thing. People, including myself, was hyped asf back when the whole cake fell because of the exploding box and how the SH's were about to escape and leave off the island until BM started chasing them. People were expecting more 1v1's with Sanji like against Ichiji or maybe even one of Big Mom's subordinates, and didn't really expect him to be dealing with a yonko by baking her a cake and dehyping what has happened earlier and turning everything into a snooze fest.

There are many things wrong with this arc, which goes WITH Sanji's character of why people are also disappointed with him.

-Arc has been labeled the "Year of Sanji", but other characters such as Brook, Jimbei and even Luffy to an extent has had outstanding moments of either doing some majorly epic or jaw dropping things like Brook stealing the Poneglyphs from BM or Jimbei standing up to BM announcing removal of the crew, which would overshadow Sanji or make Sanji's character in this arc pale in comparison. Notice how these moments that I just listed above are not even battle oriented, but simple epic instances. Sanji freeing the Vinsmokes while standing on the table or him dodging one of Katakuri's jelly beans might have been a cool thing to see at that moment but people were more hyped over other things that were crucial or otherwise more epic which overshadowed what Sanji has done.

-Sanji's chivalry annoys people, and when you have a character like Pudding, set up to look like this evil little witch that wants to harm his crew, and all Sanji can do is call her eye beautiful and bake a cake with her, well people are gonna scratch they're head and have problems.

-Sanji's character has not been developed enough, and focused too much on an aspect that we either already knew or really didn't care, which is his kindness. We already knew that Sanji was a kind man that cares for his crew, so seeing him finally tell Judge off and even being asked "why did you save us" by the very man who made your life hell, is only pushing this aspect of Sanji that is not even needed.


>BM has looked underwhelming compared to Katakuri, one of her sweet commanders, which shouldn't be the case.
I don't remember Marco or Jozu outshining and making WB look like he didn't deserve the title of yonko, but that is what we are getting with BM. She is a candy crazed idiot and many people are turned off by this character trait, especially considering she is a yonko and we are supposed to be seeing her doing some devastating shit while she is struggling to even capture or destroy half of Luffy's crew. This is nothing but a sad little kid chase.

It is not just about seeing Sanji fight every single man he comes across, but with the addon of seeing a pitiful yonko in action, when most people only care about Katakuri and Luffy at this point, Sanji rescuing the crew by giving to her needs with his specialty of baking a cake that will probably not even 100% fix everything is disappointing and lame.

Attack Cuisine, anyone?

 

[kiiro]

I dont know who, but SH will be saved.

 

[Caliburn]

Let me just put it like this then because everything I came up were reasons for Dogtooth to keep Luffy alive. I understand Doftooth's perspective and that he wants Luffy dead.

But the problem with that is that Luffy is the main character. So we have Luffy in a situation where he is trapped in a DF world he can't control and facing an enemy he can't beat. So what are the options left ?

1) Luffy wins and Luffy returns
2) Luffy wins, cannot return to the Sunny
3) Fight is interrupted
4) Katakuri wins, Luffy escapes
5) Katakuri wins, Luffy doesn't escape

To be fair option 5 looks by far the most plausible at the moment. I think Katakuri has also a form of plotshield to keep the strongest family fighter relevant for next time. So that would mean Luffy is unable to beat him but somehow wont be killed. I think that Luffy's life only will be saved because Katakuri will need him alive for something.

EDIT:

I forgot !!

I'm changing my prediction to option 3, interruption of the fight. I think Papa Vinsmoke will come in with the save. He and his fam are the only ones still there and have a big army of elite soldiers to back them up.

That way Katakuri doesn't have to hold back to keep Luffy alive.

Obviously Luffy isn't going to die here, but I don't think the situation is stuck to such a degree that we need to fall back on far-fetched scenarios. That Dogtooth would let him live for pure monetary gains I just find ridiculous and there is simply no sensible connection here with Kaidou or his RP. In the end there are still a multitude of ways as how this situation could be resolved without Luffy beating an enemy he isn't supposed to be able to beat nor that aforementioned enemy does something contradictory to his character and the flow of the story.

Luffy rarely runs away from a fight, but he has shown before having enough common sense to dash in certain situations. If he somehow is able to get through a mirror and then smashes it, depending on where he ended up the distance between him and Dogtooth might be quite substantial. If he is able to take Brulee through a mirror and smashes it, he even will have succeeded in trapping Dogtooth.

To be honest I found this development about there still being two mirrors rather odd as IMO they weren't necessary. In fact I would consider them to be more a waste of panels than those of the whole caking-making squad which so many people complain about. It's peculiar though that Oda even specifies that there are still two mirrors left. If Luffy would be able to make it through one of them and then shatter it, he would have effectively blocked Dogtooth while being reunited with his crew.

Of course this is easier said than done, but my point is that I think these are more credible scenarios than Dogtooth reasoning that they could sell Luffy for money or that Luffy somehow is the key to getting Kaidou's RP.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Even if Sanji bakes the cake, how are they certain that it will save them? I mean, once they give her the cake, they're still gonna have problems with BM. Unless Pudding wires her memories so far back where Luffy challenged her on the Den Den Mushi, they will never be clearly out of the water with BM.

In terms of Big Mom, she's obviously gonna be distracted by going ape shit on the cake. No need to be wondering about how they're gonna avoid BM once the cake is done, that's obvious as shit. We should be wondering how they're gonna avoid the rest of the crew.

There are many things wrong with this arc, which goes WITH Sanji's character of why people are also disappointed with him.

-Arc has been labeled the "Year of Sanji", but other characters such as Brook, Jimbei and even Luffy to an extent has had outstanding moments

Have to stop it here, this has nothing to do with the writing, and everything to do with the fandom's expectations. Oda fulfilled the "Year of Sanji" part by revealing his backstory in a plot with himself as the corner stone and focusing on his relationship with Luffy. If you expected fights, well, that's your own fault. That's not Sanji being disappointing, that's you misinterpreting what the Year of Sanji was supposed to be.

Notice how these moments that I just listed above are not even battle oriented, but simple epic instances. Sanji freeing the Vinsmokes while standing on the table or him dodging one of Katakuri's jelly beans might have been a cool thing to see at that moment but people were more hyped over other things that were crucial or otherwise more epic which overshadowed what Sanji has done.

Those things didn't overshadow those moments at all. Sanji dodging the bean and standing on the table were both stand-out moments. Those things, and Sanji taking on the most important job atm, are highlights. Not to mention the reveal of his backstory and his relationship with Luffy showing. If you choose to ignore them because they aren't what highlights traditionally are, that's on you.

-Sanji's chivalry annoys people, and when you have a character like Pudding, set up to look like this evil little witch that wants to harm his crew, and all Sanji can do is call her eye beautiful and bake a cake with her, well people are gonna scratch they're head and have problems.

This is willfully ignorant. If you're gonna think of Pudding as the "witch who wants to harm his crew," then you're either not paying attention or you're choosing to ignore where she no longer wants to do so because her preconceived notions about Sanji were broken. Sanji's chivalry is annoying, and yet that's exactly what's about to save the day. So, again, that's another problem with the reader, not the story itself.

And when I say that, I mean that egocentrism be damned. "I'm not interested in this"=/="This isn't interesting." "I'm not satisfied with this"=/="This isn't satisfying." Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Objectively, what's happening with Sanji isn't bad writing. Just because it doesn't tickle you doesn't mean the story should have gone differently, it means okay, sit down and wait for the parts that satisfy you, and these parts will satisfy those they satisfy, and both groups get what they want out of the story. There will always be story elements and arcs that will interest some, and not others. Just because it doesn't interest you doesn't mean it's automatically bad.

>BM has looked underwhelming compared to Katakuri

LMAO, please. Big Mom has been a monster who, at every turn, has been shown to be unstoppable. Every time it's made look like they have an edge on her, BM has flipped the tables back to hopelessness. With each chapter since, BM has done something that's warranted the viewer going "How will they get past this." Katakuri has done this in one situation, BM has done this in several so far. From draining Luffy in one blow, to destroying the missiles, to tanking the lightning bolt, to walking across the water, to raising the wave. BM has been overwhelming since the cake fell, Katakuri has only just looked that way against a non-Gear Fourth Luffy. It's cool as hell to see, but give it a second before you go busting your load prematurely.

, one of her sweet commanders, which shouldn't be the case.

Good thing it's not.

I don't remember Marco or Jozu outshining and making WB look like he didn't deserve the title of yonko,

You must have Katakuri's foresight, cause this has yet to happen between himself and BM.

but that is what we are getting with BM. She is a candy crazed idiot and many people are turned off by this character trait, especially considering she is a yonko and we are supposed to be seeing her doing some devastating shit while she is struggling to even capture or destroy half of Luffy's crew. This is nothing but a sad little kid chase.

Struggling is a strong word. The Strawhats have been consistently shown to be hopeless with each chapter while BM is basically dicking around. They're the ones struggling to get away as BM turns every one of their steps forward into two steps back.

 

[Dannie]

Have to stop it here, this has nothing to do with the writing, and everything to do with the fandom's expectations. Oda fulfilled the "Year of Sanji" part by revealing his backstory in a plot with himself as the corner stone and focusing on his relationship with Luffy. If you expected fights, well, that's your own fault. That's not Sanji being disappointing, that's you misinterpreting what the Year of Sanji was supposed to be.

Only thing that was shown is Sanji not knowing how his own captain acts and being surprised of his arrival on whole cake, and acting like he wouldn't come to his rescue.

Of course he was going to get a backstory, but why stop there? It's not even about the fandom's expectations, moreso of Oda giving Sanji an entire year and hyping up this man just to have other characters in real time do more epic shit. It's not that surprising that most of the people who are reading this story right now are more focused on Jimbei and Katakuri as opposed to Sanji baking a ****ing cake.

Those things didn't overshadow those moments at all. Sanji dodging the bean and standing on the table were both stand-out moments. Those things, and Sanji taking on the most important job atm, are highlights. Not to mention the reveal of his backstory and his relationship with Luffy showing. If you choose to ignore them because they aren't what highlights traditionally are, that's on you.

Sure, they were highlights, but only for a quick moment. Brook standing up to BM in a dramatic way

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and stealing the poneglyphs from her, has overshadowed EVERYTHING that Sanji has done in this arc and this is not even debatable. Even to argue this is just clear fanboyism considering how important and crucial the poneglyphs are to the story and how dangerous standing up to a yonko is, so to even think that dodging a jelly bean or standing on a table trying to look badass doesn't pale in comparison, is just plain silly.

This is willfully ignorant. If you're gonna think of Pudding as the "witch who wants to harm his crew," then you're either not paying attention or you're choosing to ignore where she no longer wants to do so because her preconceived notions about Sanji were broken. Sanji's chivalry is annoying, and yet that's exactly what's about to save the day. So, again, that's another problem with the reader, not the story itself.

And when I say that, I mean that egocentrism be damned. "I'm not interested in this"=/="This isn't interesting." "I'm not satisfied with this"=/="This isn't satisfying." Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's inherently bad. Objectively, what's happening with Sanji isn't bad writing. Just because it doesn't tickle you doesn't mean the story should have gone differently, it means okay, sit down and wait for the parts that satisfy you, and these parts will satisfy those they satisfy, and both groups get what they want out of the story. There will always be story elements and arcs that will interest some, and not others. Just because it doesn't interest you doesn't mean it's automatically bad.

Lmao, her "preconceived notions of Sanji being broken" are because of Sanji complimenting her eye, which I have already addressed in my last post, and if you don't find that to be an obvious cliche and just bad writing then I don't know what to tell ya.

There is obviously a difference between being turned off by something because of your own personal taste and just straight finding something terrible because it doesn't make any damn sense. If you think Pudding turning a straight 360 is good then alright fam.

LMAO, please. Big Mom has been a monster who, at every turn, has been shown to be unstoppable. Every time it's made look like they have an edge on her, BM has flipped the tables back to hopelessness. With each chapter since, BM has done something that's warranted the viewer going "How will they get past this." Katakuri has done this in one situation, BM has done this in several so far. From draining Luffy in one blow, to destroying the missiles, to tanking the lightning bolt, to walking across the water, to raising the wave. BM has been overwhelming since the cake fell, Katakuri has only just looked that way against a non-Gear Fourth Luffy. It's cool as hell to see, but give it a second before you go busting your load prematurely.

I'm not denying that BM hasn't been a beast. Katakuri has just been more of a beast.

Struggling is a strong word. The Strawhats have been consistently shown to be hopeless with each chapter while BM is basically dicking around. They're the ones struggling to get away as BM turns every one of their steps forward into two steps back.

Dicking around? She wants to kill them for what they did to her cake. How is that dicking around? While she is clumsily falling over trying to catch them because something keeps getting in the way, that is struggling dawg.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Only thing that was shown is Sanji not knowing how his own captain acts and being surprised of his arrival on whole cake, and acting like he wouldn't come to his rescue.

I'm pretty Sanji didn't expect Luffy to be able to come, not that he expected Luffy to not choose to come.

Of course he was going to get a backstory, but why stop there? It's not even about the fandom's expectations, moreso of Oda giving Sanji an entire year and hyping up this man just to have other characters in real time do more epic shit

Once again, it was never to hype up Sanji. You're mad Oda didn't deliver something he never promised to.

It's not that surprising that most of the people who are reading this story right now are more focused on Jimbei and Katakuri as opposed to Sanji baking a ****ing cake.

Sure. But that isn't because that's worse writing, or less important, it's just less engaging. Watching Sanji bake a cake is boring. That doesn't make it any less important than what Jinbei and the others are doing. Sanji baking a cake might not be what some of us want to see, but it ties in thematically to the arc perfectly and plays to Sanji's strengths. There's also the fact that the Vinsmokes chastised Sanj's cooking as weakness and now it's the most important plot point of the arc.

It's not Oda's fault that "Mah fightz" are the only thing you can find value in.

Sure, they were highlights, but only for a quick moment. Brook standing up to BM in a dramatic way

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and stealing the poneglyphs from her, has overshadowed EVERYTHING that Sanji has done in this arc

This is nothing more than opinion.

and this is not even debatable. Even to argue this is just clear fanboyism considering how important and crucial the poneglyphs are to the story and how dangerous standing up to a yonko is, so to even think that dodging a jelly bean or standing on a table trying to look badass doesn't pale in comparison, is just plain silly.

The Poneglyphs are important to the adventure, yes, but the characters undergoing the adventure is just as important. A story can have all the important plot elements it wants, that means nothing if the characters inside aren't as developed as the adventure itself. And that's exactly what Oda is doing here.

It's funny how the same people who complained when Sanji did nothing but fight and swoon over ladies, saying they want the thug cook back, are not complaining that Sanji's character has shown the other elements integral to it while dialing his nosebleed-love-for-ladies back. Most of you are just children.

Lmao, her "preconceived notions of Sanji being broken" are because of Sanji complimenting her eye, which I have already addressed in my last post, and if you don't find that to be an obvious cliche and just bad writing then I don't know what to tell ya.

"Obvious" yet none of you saw it coming. Mm-hmm. And yeah, the oh-so cliche, oh-so overused "Triclops goes from evil to unstably evil and good because someone complimented her eye" trope. Getting real tired of that one popping up in every series I watch and read.

There is obviously a difference between being turned off by something because of your own personal taste and just straight finding something terrible because it doesn't make any damn sense. If you think Pudding turning a straight 360 is good then alright fam.

Well, someone failed geometry.

Pudding's sway at Sanji complimenting her eye isn't nonsensical and was actually alluded to. When Big Mom talks about Pudding's eye and what use it has earlier in the arc, Pudding was visibly uncomfortable. This is later revealed to be because Pudding is insecure about her eye and the way it makes her look due to Big Mom telling her it was ugly and only served as a tool for her. Someone coming along and seeing something Pudding was deeply insecure about and has been told is just a tool for their use as actually being pretty having an effect on Pudding does make sense. Could it have been done better? Sure. But i wasn't nonsensical.

I'm not denying that BM hasn't been a beast. Katakuri has just been more of a beast.

No he hasn't. Maybe you failed to notice it because you were swooning over how cool he looked, but before his fight with Luffy, Katakuri didn't do anything that was of actual impact.

Katakuri sees Sanji escaping the assassination attempt? Kills the priest instead.
Katakuri sees Luffy going to smash the picture? Fails to stop Luffy.
Katakuri creates Mochi earplugs for his family? Vinsmokes and StrawTanks still escape
Katakuri bodies Ichiji? Sure, looks cool as ****, hype as well. What did it accomplish? Nothing.

Katakuri and BM's progress have been the exact opposites. Given advantages, Katakuri failed to do anything until Luffy dragged him into the Mirror World. And if we're being completely honest, that's likely to end in accomplishing nothing either, since the chances of Luffy being killed are zero and the chances of him being captured aren't very high. Meanwhile, BM has gone from disadvantaged to every advantage the Strawhats had against her being lost one after the other, and the situation becoming more and more hopeless.

Katakuri just looks and acts cooler, so you've deluded yourself into thinking he's done more when he's just been failing to ACTUALLY turn the tides in any way until Luffy ****ed up by dragging him into the Mirror World.

Dicking around? She wants to kill them for what they did to her cake. How is that dicking around? While she is clumsily falling over trying to catch them because something keeps getting in the way, that is struggling dawg.

"Struggling" and yet the situation has been going more and more in her favor as the SHs lose every advantage they have going for them one by one. Suuure.

 

[Dannie]

Once again, it was never to hype up Sanji. You're mad Oda didn't deliver something he never promised to.

Calling it the "Year of Sanji" is hyping up the character Sanji..

Sure. But that isn't because that's worse writing, or less important, it's just less engaging. Watching Sanji bake a cake is boring. That doesn't make it any less important than what Jinbei and the others are doing. Sanji baking a cake might not be what some of us want to see, but it ties in thematically to the arc perfectly and plays to Sanji's strengths. There's also the fact that the Vinsmokes chastised Sanj's cooking as weakness and now it's the most important plot point of the arc.

It's not Oda's fault that "Mah fightz" are the only thing you can find value in.

Funny how you keep bringing up this "fights are the only thing that matters" retort as if that is all I want, when I have made it clear that I am more interested in "proper" development for characters, especially those who has an entire arc dedicated to them.

Also, I am not even mad about the cake being baked, moreso that we went from a hyped moment with the tamatebako box exploding and angering BM to Sanji baking a cake and making everything all better.

This is nothing more than opinion.

It's a pretty right opinion.

The Poneglyphs are important to the adventure, yes, but the characters undergoing the adventure is just as important. A story can have all the important plot elements it wants, that means nothing if the characters inside aren't as developed as the adventure itself. And that's exactly what Oda is doing here.

It's funny how the same people who complained when Sanji did nothing but fight and swoon over ladies, saying they want the thug cook back, are not complaining that Sanji's character has shown the other elements integral to it while dialing his nosebleed-love-for-ladies back. Most of you are just children.

How about we don't want to see Sanji swooning for ladies that originally wanted to kill him and his crew? How bout that?

"Obvious" yet none of you saw it coming. Mm-hmm. And yeah, the oh-so cliche, oh-so overused "Triclops goes from evil to unstably evil and good because someone complimented her eye" trope. Getting real tired of that one popping up in every series I watch and read.

I meant the obvious "turn the evil girl/guy to my side over some dumb shit plot twist" cliche. Whether pudding was gonna start changing emotions over Sanji or not doesn't matter, when we knew Sanji wasn't gonna get stabbed in that incident, so that only left us with a couple of conclusions, which, viola! It happened. She got "talk no justu'd" because of her insecurities about her eye which we already knew about prior.

Well, someone failed geometry.

Pudding's sway at Sanji complimenting her eye isn't nonsensical and was actually alluded to. When Big Mom talks about Pudding's eye and what use it has earlier in the arc, Pudding was visibly uncomfortable. This is later revealed to be because Pudding is insecure about her eye and the way it makes her look due to Big Mom telling her it was ugly and only served as a tool for her. Someone coming along and seeing something Pudding was deeply insecure about and has been told is just a tool for their use as actually being pretty having an effect on Pudding does make sense. Could it have been done better? Sure. But i wasn't nonsensical.

Meant 180, and it might make some degree of sense, but that doesn't detract from it being terribly written. Just another way for the SH's to have more help against BM, which like I said, it cliche. There's always someone or something to completely change their positions because of some dumb plotline.

No he hasn't. Maybe you failed to notice it because you were swooning over how cool he looked, but before his fight with Luffy, Katakuri didn't do anything that was of actual impact.

Katakuri sees Sanji escaping the assassination attempt? Kills the priest instead.
Katakuri sees Luffy going to smash the picture? Fails to stop Luffy.
Katakuri creates Mochi earplugs for his family? Vinsmokes and StrawTanks still escape
Katakuri bodies Ichiji? Sure, looks cool as ****, hype as well. What did it accomplish? Nothing.

Katakuri and BM's progress have been the exact opposites. Given advantages, Katakuri failed to do anything until Luffy dragged him into the Mirror World. And if we're being completely honest, that's likely to end in accomplishing nothing either, since the chances of Luffy being killed are zero and the chances of him being captured aren't very high. Meanwhile, BM has gone from disadvantaged to every advantage the Strawhats had against her being lost one after the other, and the situation becoming more and more hopeless.

Katakuri just looks and acts cooler, so you've deluded yourself into thinking he's done more when he's just been failing to ACTUALLY turn the tides in any way until Luffy ****ed up by dragging him into the Mirror World.

You act as if Big Mom hasn't failed in trying to do anything.

>Big Mom leaves her precious photo of Mother Caramel out in the open that no one is allowed to touch? It gets smashed by Brook.
>Big Mom ends up going in her spiral crazes frenzy? Harms Opera
>Big Mom can't handle the ruckus?

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>Big Mom tries to take life from Jimbei? It doesn't work since he doesn't fear her
>Big Mom tries to call back Zues? Nami ends up taking control of it and zaps her and her homies in a hole

Swooning over Katakuri? Nah, they have had more or less the same amount of failing moments, but it should be obvious who has handled themselves better, despite one being more powerful than the other. You're clear bias when it comes to BM is also deluding you into realizing that this overgrown child who is supposed to be yonko is not doing so good and should have been wiped out these SH's.

"Struggling" and yet the situation has been going more and more in her favor as the SHs lose every advantage they have going for them one by one. Suuure.

And yet she still hasn't caught them.

*generally shaking my head*

 

[Punk Hazard]

Calling it the "Year of Sanji" is hyping up the character Sanji..

Nope. That's what you assumed. The Year of Sanji referred to the fact that he's the cornerstone to the plot events and themes of the arc, and his story was expanded.

Funny how you keep bringing up this "fights are the only thing that matters" retort as if that is all I want, when I have made it clear that I am more interested in "proper" development for characters, especially those who has an entire arc dedicated to them.

The development here has been anything but improper. It's just not done in a way that personally pleases you. But, standalone, it has not been inherently bad.

Also, I am not even mad about the cake being baked, moreso that we went from a hyped moment with the tamatebako box exploding and angering BM to Sanji baking a cake and making everything all better.

Okay. And as said before, that's a personal problem. Thematically, it fits perfectly with the arc. Both with the themes of the Big Mom Pirates, and with what the story has been about in regards to Sanji.

It's a pretty right opinion.

"Right opinion." Almost tempted to stop reading here if you think your opinion is the right one, much less that opinions are right or wrong in the first place.

How about we don't want to see Sanji swooning for ladies that originally wanted to kill him and his crew? How bout that?

So you have a problem with Robin and Franky being in the crew then? *thinking emoji* It's almost like the Strawhats changing the way people are and having meaningful impacts on them is a running trope in the series *thinking emoji* *thinking emoji* *thinking emoji*

I meant the obvious "turn the evil girl/guy to my side over some dumb shit plot twist" cliche. Whether pudding was gonna start changing emotions over Sanji or not doesn't matter, when we knew Sanji wasn't gonna get stabbed in that incident, so that only left us with a couple of conclusions, which, viola! It happened. She got "talk no justu'd" because of her insecurities about her eye which we already knew about prior.

It's not really a cliche if done in unique method, which this definitely was. Even if you want to split hairs and call it a cliche, it was still done in a creative way that was built up and capitalized on.

Meant 180, and it might make some degree of sense, but that doesn't detract from it being terribly written.

Okay. You wanna say it's objectively terrible, then say how it's objectively terrible. Not just saying "It's lame" or "It's cliche." Go ahead and break down as detailed as you can how this is bad aside from "This isn't what I wanted." I'll wait. Objectively, not opinions..

You act as if Big Mom hasn't failed in trying to do anything.

She's been doing one thing: Chasing after the SHs. And so far, she hasn't been failing. Oda has included multiple red herrings, giving the SHs advantages, and every time they were ruined and the situation has gotten more and more to BM's favor. That's how tension is built.

>Big Mom ends up going in her spiral crazes frenzy? Harms Opera

This isn't even a failure since it hasn't stopped her from doing what she's set out to do. Compare this to Katakuri aiming for something specific, and hitting the wrong person.

>Big Mom can't handle the ruckus?

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And this is a failure, how? What goal was Big Mom pursuing here that she didn't accomplish?

>Big Mom tries to take life from Jimbei? It doesn't work since he doesn't fear her

Fair enough.

>Big Mom tries to call back Zues? Nami ends up taking control of it and zaps her and her homies in a hole

Another red herring since didn't stop Big Mom from accomplishing anything.