[Theory] [Official]The Giant Tobi Discussion/Theory Thread

[arv sasuke ultimate]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

i can see you really trying to justify your opinion but it really doesnt benefit much because your reasoning's just sound absurd. itachi had doubts about tobi/madaras identity but he was like "watever il jus keep on calling him and pretending its madara because it wont help in anything anyway" , reallY!? you cant actually expect this to come out like that. itachi isnt that blunt , he departed from naruto with in mind that he wont encounter him ever again , but something as important as that being kept in is...dumb, how can itachi tell naruto to handle madara yet he thinks its not madara which if this was to be mentioned it can help in the future to figure out his history etc and abilities etc. but im going too deep into something I dont even believe in lol.
the whole idea is not kishi style, people think their is secrets behind the character of tobi/madara, but not anymore and its been that way ever since itachi and jiraiya mentioned the name madara uchiha as being someone secretive and darker than everyone else thinks. then more was revealed of tobi when kisame noticed him and also refered to him as madara . then pain and konan had a meeting with MADARA. my point is that the mystery of "tobi" is already out the bag .

do you think the pain mystery was not kishi style too that was one that was out of the box for most people.

 

[Sasuke2]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

1.- Lot of ninjas use kunai or another technique for a final blow, not just his KKG, its irrelevant what you posted, since the manga doesnt show us Zetsu clones couldnt do it neither otherwise.
2.- You are pretty convinced the coffin is Izuna, hows that suppose to be a secret for Tobi or why would Tobi care if Kabuto spread the word?
3.- How do yo explain Tobi knowing Torune's father, they shouldnt have met, because Madara's was exiled from Konoha and they are both from different eras.
4.- Itachi and Minato could be fooled for example by just looking at his sharingan(Madara's), Tobi has a laboratory with most valuable Uchiha eyes.
5.- Your EMS-Rin'negan theory is nice and could happen, but i doubt Kishi would go that deep just to have a random Uzumaki kid, developed the Rin'negan. The sage didnt had a Uzumaki body nor its stated in the Manga. The Uzumaki and Senju were different clans, since Hashirama married Mito. Plus we all saw an orphan Nagato with the Rin'negan alone, i doubt if it was Madara's experiment he would left him there to die out of hunger.
6.- I dont think Izuna has anything against his brother. Its just the cursed path of the Uchiha. Both were adults, plus Izuna could have escaped before losing the second eye if he didnt wanted to gave up on them.
7.- Im pretty convinced his mask is to hide his identity, he is probably merged with Zetsu to an extent, that doesnt mean he is 100% Madara Uchiha, could be another Uchiha merged or just another ninja. You know Madara wasnt the only ninja to ever get serious injuries, after all its a world of war and deception.

I have to say i like the way you changed the flow of this thread from a raw statement to at least an open minded discussion, this is how this threads should be.

1. Sure, but he has not even used Byakugan.
2. Again ... its not about spreading the words about coffin .. its bad translation. Kabuto later mention secret, right but thats about that anti-hashirama poison.
3. Torune is like in his 30"s and his father probably is old. By timeline Madara is now 95-100 years old. Torune's father is probably 20 years younger than Madara.
4. your point ? Madara is not Shisui so genjutsu from Madara is no problem for Itachi the expert Sharingan user.
5. Nagato was not random. Sage was not Uzumaki, he was 4 bloodlines combined in one. Sage's blood gotten split in 2 his sons, and from each son are 2 clans ... Sage's descendants are: Uchiha,Senju,Uzumaki and Hyuga.
By giving Nagato an Uzumaki his EMS eyes, he has combined the blood into Sage's elder son.
6. Read my posts back. Madara basically murdered Izuna by taking his eyes by force and letting him die in war.
7. He is Madara most likely. Half his body is Zetsu because it was damaged from his battle with Hashirama so he "repaired" himself.

where does it say blood or show blood coming out of tobi

Minato fight. Half his body has blood and other that Zetsu thing

And izuna is most likey in the coffin

yeah

it's not good to go with madara because he's supposed to be dead by the first hokage that's why it's also seems false to believe but tobi claims he is madara.

Tsunade said that Uchiha with hashirama DNA = immortal

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

yeah this is the one single evidence from the manga (that is a fact obvs) that contradicts all tobi=madara theories, im not gonna lie to myself just to justify. but taking that in, getting past it , looking at the bigger picture; tobi=madara theory stands above others. sorry but its true , i dont see any facts/evidence that give credit to tobi=izuna , tobi=kagami , tobi=zetsu clone? and tobi=the elder son.
until ACTUALLY proven otherwise ; tobi=madara , theirs been no DIRECT dialogue saying "madara isnt the man behind the mask".

I'm gonna +rep you for that acknowledgement. I'm glad you didn't try to speculate and come up with wild explanation that would end up being as wild as the identity theories themselves. Aside from that, this is the reason for so much speculation from folks and is a perfectly valid reason.

 

[captainEO]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

I'm gonna +rep you for that acknowledgement. I'm glad you didn't try to speculate and come up with wild explanation that would end up being as wild as the identity theories themselves. Aside from that, this is the reason for so much speculation from folks and is a perfectly valid reason.

can I ask who you think Tobi is?

 

[tiptop]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

I'm gonna +rep you for that acknowledgement. I'm glad you didn't try to speculate and come up with wild explanation that would end up being as wild as the identity theories themselves. Aside from that, this is the reason for so much speculation from folks and is a perfectly valid reason.

thanks i appreciate that

 

[Kinimaster]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

1. Sure, but he has not even used Byakugan.
2. Again ... its not about spreading the words about coffin .. its bad translation. Kabuto later mention secret, right but thats about that anti-hashirama poison.
3. Torune is like in his 30"s and his father probably is old. By timeline Madara is now 95-100 years old. Torune's father is probably 20 years younger than Madara.
4. your point ? Madara is not Shisui so genjutsu from Madara is no problem for Itachi the expert Sharingan user.
5. Nagato was not random. Sage was not Uzumaki, he was 4 bloodlines combined in one. Sage's blood gotten split in 2 his sons, and from each son are 2 clans ... Sage's descendants are: Uchiha,Senju,Uzumaki and Hyuga.
By giving Nagato an Uzumaki his EMS eyes, he has combined the blood into Sage's elder son.
6. Read my posts back. Madara basically murdered Izuna by taking his eyes by force and letting him die in war.
7. He is Madara most likely. Half his body is Zetsu because it was damaged from his battle with Hashirama so he "repaired" himself.

Minato fight. Half his body has blood and other that Zetsu thing

yeah


Tsunade said that Uchiha with hashirama DNA = immortal

2.- Your presumtion, bad translation is what makes your theory go wrong? to me isnt bad translation, like i said i read more mangas than you since i probably speak more languages, so one of us is wrong, but now we dont know who, sorry its like that until the manga reveals it. Dont get arrogant, you dont know what is not translated correctly.

3.- Torune's father is around 60-65 while Madara should be a little over 100. that difference makes it impossible forhim to know that person because he was EXILED, again go read the Kagami theory.

4.- Tobi having Madara's eyes could control the Kyubi= Minato gets fooled by that, and Uchiha sense each other by Sharingan, Tobi with mask and Madara's eyes= Itachi fooled. As simple as that. I could be wrong but this could be quite possible aswell.

5.- You still havent explain why Nagato was alone and in hunger, if he was Madara's greatest experiment, plus all Nagato fans could agree with me that the Rin'negan was awakened when Nagato's parents were murdered.

6.- Madara according to Itachi was lying helpless in bed, blind and exhausted, Izuna on the other part was just taking care of him but nowhere near as bad as him, Madara removed one of his eyes and there a while later the other, Izuna could have easily escaped and you know it. Even i myself could do it.

7.- Your theory and my theory, nothing clear yet. Both could happen.

 

[laxus]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

Tsunade said that Uchiha with hashirama DNA = immortal

but madara was suppossed to be dead so he couldn't have attained hashirama dna.
izuna is in a coffin he's dead in their funeral home he was stated to have died in battle.

 

[Gyakusetsu]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

IMO: Tobi is Tobi. The guy in his head though So6P eldest son. Tobi is another play on words as the eldest can Jump from body to body just like a virus. He's been lots of folks over the ages, but still after that illusive Peace through Power.

 

[Kinimaster]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

IMO: Tobi is Tobi. The guy in his head though So6P eldest son. Tobi is another play on words as the eldest can Jump from body to body just like a virus. He's been lots of folks over the ages, but still after that illusive Peace through Power.

I think the same Tobi is Tobi until we know for sure.

 

[Sasuke2]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

2.- Your presumtion, bad translation is what makes your theory go wrong? to me isnt bad translation, like i said i read more mangas than you since i probably speak more languages, so one of us is wrong, but now we dont know who, sorry its like that until the manga reveals it. Dont get arrogant, you dont know what is not translated correctly.

3.- Torune's father is around 60-65 while Madara should be a little over 100. that difference makes it impossible forhim to know that person because he was EXILED, again go read the Kagami theory.

4.- Tobi having Madara's eyes could control the Kyubi= Minato gets fooled by that, and Uchiha sense each other by Sharingan, Tobi with mask and Madara's eyes= Itachi fooled. As simple as that. I could be wrong but this could be quite possible aswell.

5.- You still havent explain why Nagato was alone and in hunger, if he was Madara's greatest experiment, plus all Nagato fans could agree with me that the Rin'negan was awakened when Nagato's parents were murdered.

6.- Madara according to Itachi was lying helpless in bed, blind and exhausted, Izuna on the other part was just taking care of him but nowhere near as bad as him, Madara removed one of his eyes and there a while later the other, Izuna could have easily escaped and you know it. Even i myself could do it.

7.- Your theory and my theory, nothing clear yet. Both could happen.

2. as I said, its not about Kabuto not telling anyone about coffin. He meant that the body has no soul yet so he can relax.
3. How do you know that Torune's dad is 60-65 ? Madara according to timeline fought Hashirama in his late 40's or early 50's. Im 19 and my father is 60 years old. Madara is now in late 90's or early 100's. So If Torune's father is 70 years old now, 70-50 = 20 so its possible they met.
4. From where then did Tobi get hold of Kyubi ? It was in Madara's possesion.
5. Nagato awakened Rinnegan just like Uchiha awake Sharingan ... stressful situation, anger, despari. Seeing his parents die and then be left alone in a war was a great time for him to awake Rinnegan. When he used Rinnegan to kill those Konoha Ninja, it then turned off again and he awakened it permanently when he protected Yahiko later.
6. He ripped his eyes by force. Theres thing like genjutsu and paralyzation technique ANBU uses
7. : D

 

[Sasuke2]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

but madara was suppossed to be dead so he couldn't have attained hashirama dna.
izuna is in a coffin he's dead in their funeral home he was stated to have died in battle.

he survived their battle .. have you read manga ? he fought hashirama only to get hold of his DNA. and i know about izuna, your point is ? Im saying he is in 6th coffin. Kabuto said something about grave robbing.

 

[laxus]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

he survived their battle .. have you read manga ? he fought hashirama only to get hold of his DNA. and i know about izuna, your point is ? Im saying he is in 6th coffin. Kabuto said something about grave robbing.

in the manga it also says hashirama killed madara.=how can madara obtain the 1st hokage dna when he died

 

[The Thinker]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

why not? that means there will always be a main villain in naruto= thus creating more naruto episodes

Lol agreed

 

[Sasuke2]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

in the manga it also says hashirama killed madara.=how can madara obtain the 1st hokage dna when he died

because he survived ... have you heard about Izanagi ?

 

[laxus]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

because he survived ... have you heard about Izanagi ?

does this make sense to you he says that he fought that battle to get hashirama senju dna now you say that he used izangi how with what dna.so you're saying he used izangi without having senju dna.

 

[Kinimaster]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

2. as I said, its not about Kabuto not telling anyone about coffin. He meant that the body has no soul yet so he can relax.
3. How do you know that Torune's dad is 60-65 ? Madara according to timeline fought Hashirama in his late 40's or early 50's. Im 19 and my father is 60 years old. Madara is now in late 90's or early 100's. So If Torune's father is 70 years old now, 70-50 = 20 so its possible they met.
4. From where then did Tobi get hold of Kyubi ? It was in Madara's possesion.
5. Nagato awakened Rinnegan just like Uchiha awake Sharingan ... stressful situation, anger, despari. Seeing his parents die and then be left alone in a war was a great time for him to awake Rinnegan. When he used Rinnegan to kill those Konoha Ninja, it then turned off again and he awakened it permanently when he protected Yahiko later.
6. He ripped his eyes by force. Theres thing like genjutsu and paralyzation technique ANBU uses
7. : D

2.- According to you so, it doesnt mean anything to me as you could be so wrong about it, not a fact yet and most people didnt get tha form the manga but something else. So what your saying here is like making stuff up, not relevant to me.

3.- Torune's father is the same generation, a little younger it seems as Danzo and Kagami, Tobirama and Hashirama were like 30-35 years older than Hiruzen. Do the math. Their difference should be like 35-40 years.

4.- Minato fight? Nothing more to say here.

5.- Again..., where is Madara there, if Nagato was not random yet left an orphan to die from hunger if Yahiko and Konan werent there.

6.- Dont think Madara was in condition to do anything there specially genjutsu. You forget Izuna has MS too hard to get caught. specially if he is in better shape than the helpless Madara there.

You starting to hold really hard on your theory as if you accept you dont have the answers you will look bad, its okay nobody know 100% who Tobi is, just the cretaor of the series, so its not a bad thing to admit you dont know a lot of the stuff, as the only thing we could do as readers is to speculate and theorize nothing more.

 

[Sasuke2]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

does this make sense to you he says that he fought that battle to get hashirama senju dna now you say that he used izangi how with what dna.so you're saying he used izangi without having senju dna.

Uchihas dont need Senju/hashirama DNA to use Izanagi ... thats common misunderstanding. They can use Izanagi just with their Sharingan. Hashirama's DNA is needed to use its perfected form and for it to last longer.

 

[Sasuke2]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

2.- According to you so, it doesnt mean anything to me as you could be so wrong about it, not a fact yet and most people didnt get tha form the manga but something else. So what your saying here is like making stuff up, not relevant to me.

3.- Torune's father is the same generation, a little younger it seems as Danzo and Kagami, Tobirama and Hashirama were like 30-35 years older than Hiruzen. Do the math. Their difference should be like 35-40 years.

4.- Minato fight? Nothing more to say here.

5.- Again..., where is Madara there, if Nagato was not random yet left an orphan to die from hunger if Yahiko and Konan werent there.

6.- Dont think Madara was in condition to do anything there specially genjutsu. You forget Izuna has MS too hard to get caught. specially if he is in better shape than the helpless Madara there.

You starting to hold really hard on your theory as if you accept you dont have the answers you will look bad, its okay nobody know 100% who Tobi is, just the cretaor of the series, so its not a bad thing to admit you dont know a lot of the stuff, as the only thing we could do as readers is to speculate and theorize nothing more.

2. whatever, read the raw and ask someone with knowledge of japanese
3. Danzo was 72 ... I said Torune's father like 70 so its still right.
4. Madara summoned the Kyubi in the first place
5. Yeah, and Naruto could have killed Nagato not talk with him so his plan would end there as well ... risk risk
6. Sure. Thats why Itachi is able to catch people in genjutsu just with fingers ... and Itachi had MS as well and Sasuke rivaled his genjutsu just with Sharingan,
7. we do that

 

[laxus]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

Uchihas dont need Senju/hashirama DNA to use Izanagi ... thats common misunderstanding. They can use Izanagi just with their Sharingan. Hashirama's DNA is needed to use its perfected form and for it to last longer.

so you're saying he made his death into an illusion but wouldn't hashirama see that it's an illusion because the user turns transparent

 

[thechosen1]

Re: The Ultimate proof that Tobi is indeed Madara

Thanks

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