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Semper Fi, Marines. That guy had enough ammo to turn that train into a blood bath.
One of them is in critical condition after being shot in the neck during the take down.
They beat the shit out of him, though.
Off-Duty U.S. Marines interrupt islamic terrorist attack in France
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One of them is in critical condition after being shot in the neck during the take down.
They beat the shit out of him, though.
TenseiganFTW
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He was known to French and Spanish intelligence services. He lived in Spain and was identified as being affiliated with Islamic militant groups and was classified as "potentially dangerous."
I'm going to say that it's pretty clear what happened, there.
TenseiganFTW
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I want to post because I feel as though you're posting this thread for (what I would consider) the wrong reason. Rather than posting it because of a near-tragedy that was stopped by two heroes, it seems like you posted it simply because it involved a Muslim terrorist.
Don't get me wrong, it's terrible what happened to the man, and the person who had the gun is completely evil, but I hope you're not pointing fingers at the religion itself.
Don't get me wrong, it's terrible what happened to the man, and the person who had the gun is completely evil, but I hope you're not pointing fingers at the religion itself.
Actually, I was sharing it because of the distinction between U.S. and European cultures.
People in the U.S. have a very different perspective of society, particularly when it comes to authority. While America has migrated away from it to some degree, especially of late, the culture of America is that the individual is not just individually empowered, but also individually responsible for the world around him/her.
For example, when we call the police in many parts of America, it is not to be 'saved' by them - it is to let them know that something is about to happen that they are going to need to file a report on.
What French officials comment as being "extreme bravery" is what the average American is expected to do in that situation. You don't call the authorities to 'let them deal with it.' You call the authorities to let them know that something important is happening, and you do what you can to contain the situation within moral and ethical bounds. The individual is perceived to have a moral and ethical responsibility to intervene in these situations.
Or, as a popular phrase in America states: "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
The European culture has migrated toward a dependence upon designated authority. The social response to dealing with something like a shooter is "that's not my job."
When Marines were shot at a reserve center, American citizens took it upon themselves to post armed watches outside the offices of recruiters and other locations where military personnel were forbidden from being armed.
Europeans are going to need to move away from the culture of dependence upon authority. Security is everyone's responsibility. It is not possible for a government to ensure our security from a purely statistical level. We are all going to have to (wo)man up and recognize that there is a common threat to us all that we have to, at the very least, be conscious of.
If those Marines would not have been there or had assumed it wasn't their job - it is very unlikely anyone else would have been able to close in on him to bring him down, even if they wanted to. He would have had free reign over that train and it would have been death tolls well into the double digits, possibly getting close to three (if there were enough people on the train).
Europe dodged one ****ing hell of a bullet.
He was a Muslim motivated to his actions by Islamic terror networks he was known to be in affiliation with.
A spade is a spade.
TheAncientCenturion
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I'm not getting you on the whole 'culture distinction'. These were U.S marines that're supposed to be trained in these kinds of situations. And that Europe as a whole has some cultural reverse bias that they wouldn't do anything? That's nonsense.
Dark Sonic
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" Otherwise, citizen guards, some who received word of the effort through the Facebook group Operation Hero Guard, have taken up the gauntlet of protecting the troops:
• In Bellevue, Wash., near Seattle, three men and a woman stationed themselves outside the recruiting station.
"I'm intensely American," Shannon Tahja said. "All my friends are military. A lot of my friends are military and I stand with them."
...
• In Gallatin, Tenn., three men, including one with a semi-automatic rifle, stood guard Tuesday at the recruitment center and said they will return periodically as their schedules permit.
"The biggest thing is a show of force and to show our support," Aaron Hollands said. "Obviously if something goes down, we're ready, but (we're here) mostly just to show that if nobody else is going to stand up and protect them we'll have their back." Gallatin is a Nashville suburb about 150 miles northwest of the shooting scene.
...
Larry Stoneking, a Vietnam veteran and Franklin resident, didn't know military recruitment personnel were not permitted to carry weapons until last week's deadly attack. Once he found out, he showed up at the Middletown recruiting offices.
At first, he was the only one. Then he called a friend, his friend called a friend and so on. Now, just two days later, he said almost 20 people signed up to patrol. "
Contrast:
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" Michael Adebolajo, 28, and Michael Adebowale, 22, dragged the lifeless body of Fusilier Lee Rigby, a veteran of the Afghan War, into the middle of the street so that horrified members of the public could see what they had done, prosecutor Richard Whittam said at the start of the men's trial.
...
The court fell silent as the jury were shown closed-circuit television (CCTV) footage of the moment the Vauxhall Tigra car drove at Rigby.
...
Whittam told the court that witness Amanda Bailey had seen the car accelerate into Rigby before carrying him down the road and crashing into a road sign. The driver then got out carrying the cleaver.
"He knelt down by Lee Rigby and took hold of his hair. He then repeatedly hacked at the right side of his neck just below the jawline," Whittam said. "He was using considerable force, bringing his hand into the air each time before he struck."
Bailey saw him hack nine times at Rigby's neck, Whittam said. Witnesses Gary Perkins and Gill Hucks called it an "horrific frenzied attack", he added.
"He (Perkins) saw Michael Adebolajo sawing at the neck of Lee Rigby with a machete and the other man trying to cut bits of the body by hacking away at it," Whittam said. "He described the actions as being like a butcher attacking a joint of meat."
...
The jury heard of the bravery of passers-by. CCTV footage showed one woman who stroked Rigby's lifeless body and others who talked to Adebolajo, despite him holding the cleaver.
It all took place yards (meters) from a junior school.
Whittam said that after the attack on Rigby the two assailants deliberately waited for the police, scaring off the public by pointing a gun at them, and the court was shown dramatic footage of the moment armed officers arrived. "
There is a reason I refer to Europe as a culture of neutered eunuchs.
Granted, America has segued into some similar trends, as of late, as it has continued its march toward socialism.
Of course, this is what Britains are concerned about:
" Last night Fiyaz Mughal, the director of Tell Mama, which records anti-Muslim incidents, said he feared Mr Cameron’s announcements would reinforce negative perceptions of Muslims.
Mr Mughal said he had asked extra staff to be on standby because of an anticipated surge in hate attacks. He added that the new rules should cover all forms of extremism, including the activities of the far right.
“There has to be parity and not a feeling that Muslims are being singled out,” he said.
Chris Allen, an expert on Islamophobia at Birmingham University, said: “The more the lens is turned on the Muslim community, the more society begins to think, ‘There’s no smoke without fire’.” "
And Britain is notably more sensible than nations like France and Germany.
Interestingly, when you go to Slovakia and parts of Eastern Europe/Eurasia, you begin to see a bit more basic desire to survive. They have more or less been forced to be on edge after recovering and being destroyed several times in the past two hundred years. They haven't had much time to become entitled to their sense of security.
You need to do three things.
First, you need to write down the values you believe in - what do you believe and know to be right and wrong, presently.
Second, you need to ask yourself, before reading through the Qu'ran, what constitutes "good things" and "in the way of Allah."
Third, you need to review the Hadith and the accounts of Muhammad's behavior. I recommend just taking a look through Sunnah.com's (or was it a .org?), at Sahih Al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, particularly the collections of books dedicated to the definition of Jihad.
There are others that can be looked at, and you really should to get a more complete view of what was going on in the life of Muhammad.
The problem is that Islam has appointed itself to the privileged status of perpetual-victim.
It's actually fascinating to see it operate on a social scale.
For example, there is a kid who inhabits the same house I am currently residing within. He isn't a horrible kid, intellectually, but he has some substantial behavioral issues. His response to anyone telling him that he is not going to get his way is to react with exceptional hostility and to accuse the other person as yelling at him and being completely unreasonable. He legitimately believes that people are being unfair to him.
He sits in his room all day, watching TV or playing video games, then blows a gasket when his mother returns with tea bags instead of pre-made tea. The suggestion that he wash a pitcher, heat up some water, and brew some tea is seen as completely unfair and disrespectful towards him.
Islam is like that on a sociological scale.
The suggestion that they do something to police their own crazies (if that is what they really are) is taken as deeply offensive, yet it is exactly what rational societies demand of every other religion.
Christian groups have long come out against organizations like the KKK and even participated in operations against that group. It is groups of Christians (often bikers) who rally to block Westboro from disturbing the families undergoing funerals for their lost soldiers.
Remember when there was the whole "birther" issue regarding Obama? There was a witch hunt to discern who was and was not a "birther" within Conservative (and even Liberal) circles. People rushed to associate or disassociate from it. Numerous conservative groups ripped into each other over the legitimacy of the claims regarding Obama's citizenship. There was more arguing about that within conservative circles than there was between liberals and conservatives.
It's not unreasonable to expect Islam to police some of its own.
Instead, what happens is we end up with is this:
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"The UK's Muslim Action Forum (MAF) is seeking to have all depictions of the Islamic prophet Muhammad labeled as 'hate speech'.
A document posted to MAF's site last month attacks Charlie Hebdo's 'insulting cartoons' with no reference to the terrorist attack committed by Muslims that occurred earlier.
“Muslim Action Forum (MAF) has devised a legal strategy to prevent the continuous insulting and derogatory publications depicting and abusing the personality of our Holy Prophet Muhammad peace be upon Him. This strategy and campaign will have taken its first historical step by presenting a petition supported by over 100,000 signatures of Muslims promoting the concept of Global Civility and condemning the continuous publication of these insulting cartoons in France and other parts of the world.""
Translated - "The terrorist isn't the problem, you are the problem."
I'm a Christian who has to put up with "art" in the form of the cross inserted into a jar of urine, depictions of the Pope in condoms, and works of Mary consisting of feces.
Guy shoots up a magazine headquarters over a cartoon, and suddenly the free press that has been held as a central tenet of a free society for hundreds of years is the problem that needs to be fixed for there to be peace.
And you wonder why people don't really consider you to be part of their team?
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" A Kansas City mosque that petitioned Barack Obama to ban free speech defaming Islam in 2012 will hold the funeral for one of the two jihadists killed in a shootout Sunday outside a Dallas-area convention center that was hosting a “Draw Muhammad” cartoon contest.
...
As I reported at PJ Media back in September 2012, ISGKC launched an online petition calling for Barack Obama to sponsor a bill limiting the free speech of American citizens by criminalizing insults to religion (namely, Islam) following international protest of the “Innocence of Muslims” video.
The petition, which was signed by the ISGKC executive board and posted on the mosque’s website, received 348 signatures. One of the mosque board members defended the petition in an interview with the local media following our PJ Media report:
“Insulting somebody else or putting somebody down can insight violence and lead to people losing their lives. We’re trying not to give these people a chance to misbehave,” said Mohammed Kohia, who started the petition along with the executive board of the Islamic Society of Greater Kansas City. "
Emphasis, my own.
This is, historically, how Islam has proposed to "protect" those around them. Protection is afforded in exchange for submission. There is the specific distinction between those who submit to the rule of Muslims and those who submit to Allah - IE - those who submit to the rule of Muslims are to be extended the personal grant of protection, but not Allah's.
Like I said - you learn all kinds of fun stuff when you read.
Dark Sonic
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You're right that muslims need to learn everything on Islam. I'm still learning myself and I also watch argument videos like these
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to learn something. I actually want to get the Bukhari since it has the Signs of the Day of Judgement. There are some real mind blowing ones like these 2 videos.
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elitenoob94
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Natsu Shazneel
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Well they weren't Marines of the Gyrene variety. But they were Americans. One was a National Guardsman, one was a U.S. Airman, and one was a college student. But it does reflect the Marine attitude. When confronted with a moral dilemma as these three faced, will you run towards to help out or run away to save your neck. Fight or flight. Which I'm guessing what OP was trying to show. That Americans choose to fight not run.
But lets not also forget that a British Businessman was also awarded the Legion of honor along with the other three.
But lets not also forget that a British Businessman was also awarded the Legion of honor along with the other three.
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