[Theory] Obito - The Embodier of Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki

Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
324
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The Khakkhara is a ‘sounding staff’ used primarily in prayer or as a weapon. There are different variants of the khakkhara which are inhibited through rings – four rings, six rings or twelve rings. Each has a unique representation, the four ringed khakkhara represents the ‘Four Noble Truths’, the six ringed khakkhara represents the ‘Six Perfections’ and the twelve ringed khakkara represents the ‘Twelvefold Chain of Cause and Effect’. All of these are carried by those who seek peace, a six ring khakkhara is carried by novice monks, a six ring khakkhara is carried by a Bodhisattva, and a twelve ring khakkhara us carried by the Buddha.

Now so far this may not mean anything to you in relation to the Naruto manga, but the six ringed khakkhara is used by Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki and now Obito Uchiha. The six ringed khakkhara represents the ‘Six Perfections’ as mentioned previously. These ‘Six Perfections’ are:
  1. 布施波羅蜜 – Generosity.
  2. 持戒波羅蜜 – Virtue, Morality, Discipline & Proper Conduct.
  3. 忍辱波羅蜜 – Patience, Tolerance, Forbearance, Acceptance & Endurance.
  4. 精進波羅蜜 – Energy, Diligence, Vigor & Effort.
  5. 禪定波羅蜜 – One-Pointed Concentration & Contemplation.
  6. 般若波羅蜜 – Wisdom & Insight.
What all these have in common is they are characteristic of a priest being Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki who wielded the Six Ringed Khakkhara and fulfilled its role of teaching and promoting peace to the world.
Now Obito Uchiha also wields the Six Ringed Khakkhara who also seeks out peace, originally he was manipulated by one who foresaw ‘real’ peace as unobtainable and idealistic. However Obito originally wanted a similar peace as Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki, and also Naruto Uzumaki. Naruto reminded Obito of his ‘real’ ideals similar to that of himself and Hagoromo.
However Madara Uchiha also seeks our ‘peace’, differently from Hagoromo, Naruto & Obito. Madara is not idealistic and truly believes ‘true peace’ can never be obtained given the circumstances of history. Madara’s staff is deformed in a sense symbolizing an ill demeanor. Madara seeks peace in a similar sense with different ideals to obtain it – though power and control over everyone.

You must be registered for see images


The staffs obtained by Obito & Madara are not physical such as Hagoromo’s, they are manifested through the will of the beholder of the rinnegan. So the rinnegan shapes the staff through the ideals and emotions of its beholder – Obito similar to Hagoromo obtained the staff with six rings, bringing the meaning of the ‘Six Perfections’ (can also relate to the six paths through the Naruto Manga).

In the latest manga ( ) Obito re-obtained his staff, many speculate he stole Madara’s which he did not. Madara’s staff is clearly still visible, also the staff is not physical so I speculate it cannot simply be stolen from the one who creates it. Madara also has a different will to Obito differentiating it’s shape and meaning. Now as mentioned the Staff is created through ones will then shaped through the ideals of the reflecting eye (rinnegan) to form its shape through the persons ideals. This explains the differentiation between the staff Madara, Obito & Hagoromo possess’. Now obito also did not steal any chakra from Madara as he pierced him to create this staff, as I mentioned the staff is created through ones will. The will of Madara did also create Obitos staff, but it was the will Madara implanted through Black Zetsu which created Obitos staff.

You must be registered for see images


As you can see part of Black Zetsu re-forms the staff Obito wields. It’s shape is projected through the rinnegan of the persons ideals. Differentiating both staffs of Obito and Madara.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
324
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Nice theory
I agree.
Thanks for the feedback, most appreciated. :)

Nice research. And it makes sense and explains the differences in the staffs
I was trying to straighten things up, I saw allot of threads which concluded Obito stole either the staff from Madara or his chakra to create the staff. Thank you for your feedback, means allot. :)
 

GhostProject

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
1,793
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I actually like the word choice "Embodiment" a lot here for Obito's current situation/characterization. I'm not sure why, but it really describes the theory well.

This theory is spot on.

Personally, I believe Madara at this point represents the Elder Son if he had surpassed the Sage, and Obito is the embodiment, as you put it, of Rikudou. You may or may not agree, as that is a whole different theory on it's own, but I believe it is a relevant idea here.

Anyways, Good job +rep =D
 

valandil988

Active member
Regular
Joined
Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,077
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
And your point is? You didn't elaborate what the ideological stand points of Obito and Madara are concerning their staffs.

The basic aspects of these staffs are obvious. You seem to have buried it under all this stuff about the 6 Perfections.

Really this is all about Samsara:

Obito's completed staff holds in line with the ideals of the ninja: "Ninja are those that endure for their dreams"

He wishes to endure Samsara the never ending wheel of pain and suffering. Symbolized by the rings.

Madara's staff symbolizes a different ideological stand point:

He wishes to Break the cycle completely he doesn't wish to hold in line with the ideals of a ninja. He wishes to break it completely hence the staff being an incomplete circle. Ill will? No his intentions are good but his actions are evil.
 

davidou

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
3,466
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
A bit too long , but interesting , it may have been an inspiration for Kishi.
6path will=6rings , Madara's will=0 rings and a hole , more rings the staff have and more sage is the wielder , Madara is a demon.


Obito's staff is not created from Bzetsu.
During Obito's staff creation , we clearly see that the ball of Obito's will is repulsing BZ.
 

NaruSasuRival

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
914
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
You are missing a lot of things here. There are many signs of six paths, among which the rings on the staff is only one of them. Here is the listing:

(1) Look around Madara to see the six bomb floating. I think there represents six paths.
(2) Look on the clothing to see six tomes that represent six paths.
(3) In terms of Rinnegan six paths jutsus, I think Madara has shown more than Obito.

By choosing only the staff, you are disregarding the rest of the evidence for the sake of your theory.

Next, you need to know that the Rinnegan Obito has belongs to Madara. Obito's own eyes never transformed into Rinnegan. Finally, note that Madara is not complete yet because half of his will is on Obito. Care to see that Obito has staff maybe because he has BZ.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
324
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I actually like the word choice "Embodiment" a lot here for Obito's current situation/characterization. I'm not sure why, but it really describes the theory well.

This theory is spot on.

Personally, I believe Madara at this point represents the Elder Son if he had surpassed the Sage, and Obito is the embodiment, as you put it, of Rikudou. You may or may not agree, as that is a whole different theory on it's own, but I believe it is a relevant idea here.

Anyways, Good job +rep =D
I do believe that and support that theory, it seems very relevant to the current situation. Thank you for your input it really means allot to me. :)

And your point is? You didn't elaborate what the ideological stand points of Obito and Madara are concerning their staffs.

The basic aspects of these staffs are obvious. You seem to have buried it under all this stuff about the 6 Perfections.

Really this is all about Samsara:

Obito's completed staff holds in line with the ideals of the ninja: "Ninja are those that endure for their dreams"

He wishes to endure Samsara the never ending wheel of pain and suffering. Symbolized by the rings.

Madara's staff symbolizes a different ideological stand point:

He wishes to Break the cycle completely he doesn't wish to hold in line with the ideals of a ninja. He wishes to break it completely hence the staff being an incomplete circle. Ill will? No his intentions are good but his actions are evil.
By ill will I mean that his quest for the same 'peace' is darker and more sincere than that originally for-seeked by Hagoromo, Hashirama, Jiraiya, Minato, Naruto, Obito and many other characters. In Naruto generally the 'correct' ideal for peace is through negotiation and the understandment of one another, however Madara is 'twisted' and 'ill' in a more in depth sense. Madara's ideals are to be obtainable at 'all costs' no matter what comes his way - as he pierces Sasuke he stated this.

A bit too long , but interesting , it may have been an inspiration for Kishi.
6path will=6rings , Madara's will=0 rings and a hole , more rings the staff have and more sage is the wielder , Madara is a demon.


Obito's staff is not created from Bzetsu.
During Obito's staff creation , we clearly see that the ball of Obito's will is repulsing BZ.
Thats another observation I can agree with, there are many stand points I will agree with in relation to how the staff was formed. However it did have some relation to Black Zetsu as both you and I have revealed. Thank you on your insight. :)

You are missing a lot of things here. There are many signs of six paths, among which the rings on the staff is only one of them. Here is the listing:

(1) Look around Madara to see the six bomb floating. I think there represents six paths.
(2) Look on the clothing to see six tomes that represent six paths.
(3) In terms of Rinnegan six paths jutsus, I think Madara has shown more than Obito.

By choosing only the staff, you are disregarding the rest of the evidence for the sake of your theory.

Next, you need to know that the Rinnegan Obito has belongs to Madara. Obito's own eyes never transformed into Rinnegan. Finally, note that Madara is not complete yet because half of his will is on Obito. Care to see that Obito has staff maybe because he has BZ.
There is a physical relation to the six paths yes, although that being said anyone who obtains the Juubi and becomes it's jinchuriki will have the same physical appearance of Hagoromo. You have stated the physical appearances which I do agree relate to signs of an embodier of Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki. That being said not everyone who becomes the jinchuriki of the Juubi will have possession of the similar staff both Hagoromo & Obito possess. So I clearly tried to mainly emphasise on the staff relating to 'good will' and 'peace'; both in a similar sense to that of Hagoromo's views.

Another thing is with the Rinnegan it is in relation to the Uchiha's eye which is the 'eye of which reflects emotion' stated by Tobirama during his persuasion of Sasuke, that being said just because the Rinnegan isn't the same as the Sharingan doesn't mean it doesn't inhibit what it does. Thats how I got the view of no matter who obtained the Rinnegan the one who possess it reflects their ideals in unique ways which differ from others. In this case Obito & Madara have differences the Rinnegan 'projects'.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
324
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Madara has yet to go through all the transformations Obito has. Its likely Obito is more advanced in utilizing the rikudo chakra than Madara.
Obito's didn't technically go through a 'transformation' he just stopped the Juubi controlling, how? Because he though of his long-term goal which was to being peace. Eternal peace for Rin, a promise which he wanted to keep at all costs, it's what drove him to stay alive and avenge her in vain death.

There are seven paths... Im guessing Naruto will surpass the So6P also.
Originally there was 6 paths; the 6 paths of Rikudou. However the seventh path is basically the one who can control all paths before. Also the seventh state which is inclusive in the 'Ten Stages' which stage seven is:
7. Upāya - Skillful means.
Which can relate to combining all six perfections leads to true skill.
 
Last edited:
Top