Obito controlling Yagura and occupying The Mist. Why?

Char Aznable

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The Akatsuki were set up in Hidden Rain. Where most people don’t travel to and had been ravaged during the 2nd Ninja War. Why would Obito hide out in the Kiri Village and use Yagura and to what ends? The Kiri villagers always hated KKG (see Yuki, Kaguya and Hozuki clans) and the brutal tactics of killing your classmates to graduate were in place before Zabuza, Kakashi and Obito were born. What was Obito doing there and why do you think Kishi added that?
 

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To spite the Mist ninja for getting Rin killed. Another point I could see is money. I recall Hidan and his partner mentioning how they needed cash for the Akatsuki, and controlling an entire country has to rake in money. It's not like he was spending it on any of the citizens.
 
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Lukecetion

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Why did Kishimoto add that to the story? Its a writing technique often used were create a bunch of "branches" that may or may not lead somewhere important in the story. Usually you should be very careful with this so you don't add a branch that can contradict another one you might choose later on. Its likely that Kishimoto added this as part of the possible backstory for Tobi and Madara before going with the Obito idea instead.

Not saying he didn't think it could be Obito from early on, but that he played around with different ideas which is why we see Tobi take on so many different looks, persona and seemingly goals. For example, we understand why Obito attacked Kushina and stole Kurama. What we don't understand is why he attacked Konoha with it instead of just taking it. The Obito we see during the war was far more focused on his goals, opting to rush them rather than to wait.

So for him to waste time attacking Konoha and putting himself at risk? Out of character from what we got and this is likely the same result as why Obito decided to take control over the Hidden Mist. Perhaps at some point in the story, Kishimoto toyed with the idea that it was Obito's body, but Madara's will, which was later worked into Black Zetsu. Perhaps instead of having Zetsu betray Madara, it would be Obito wrestling the control of his body away from him. Things like that. Ideas that were never used or realized.

Regarding the Hidden Mist. Back when it was revealed that Obito was in control of it for some time, we didn't know about Madara or anything else. When we got the backstory about Madara and how he used the Hidden Mist to kill Rin and turn Obito, we got a better idea of where that "branch" idea went. It evolved into it being Madara who was in control of the Hidden Mist and not Obito, but we still see Obito in control for some reason, hence a contradiction that doesn't make sense to Obito's character or goals.
 

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Why did Kishimoto add that to the story? Its a writing technique often used were create a bunch of "branches" that may or may not lead somewhere important in the story. Usually you should be very careful with this so you don't add a branch that can contradict another one you might choose later on. Its likely that Kishimoto added this as part of the possible backstory for Tobi and Madara before going with the Obito idea instead.

Not saying he didn't think it could be Obito from early on, but that he played around with different ideas which is why we see Tobi take on so many different looks, persona and seemingly goals. For example, we understand why Obito attacked Kushina and stole Kurama. What we don't understand is why he attacked Konoha with it instead of just taking it. The Obito we see during the war was far more focused on his goals, opting to rush them rather than to wait.

So for him to waste time attacking Konoha and putting himself at risk? Out of character from what we got and this is likely the same result as why Obito decided to take control over the Hidden Mist. Perhaps at some point in the story, Kishimoto toyed with the idea that it was Obito's body, but Madara's will, which was later worked into Black Zetsu. Perhaps instead of having Zetsu betray Madara, it would be Obito wrestling the control of his body away from him. Things like that. Ideas that were never used or realized.

Regarding the Hidden Mist. Back when it was revealed that Obito was in control of it for some time, we didn't know about Madara or anything else. When we got the backstory about Madara and how he used the Hidden Mist to kill Rin and turn Obito, we got a better idea of where that "branch" idea went. It evolved into it being Madara who was in control of the Hidden Mist and not Obito, but we still see Obito in control for some reason, hence a contradiction that doesn't make sense to Obito's character or goals.
Now that you mention it, I like the idea that it was Madara controlling Yagura. Not Obito. Kishi obviously changed his mind and was introducing retcons on the fly during the war arc. It makes sense for Madara to be the one to control a village from the shadows and red pill Kisame by showing him his face. I doubt Obito could give Kisame the “holy experience “ that Deidara and Oro got, looking at Itachi the first time.
 

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Now that you mention it, I like the idea that it was Madara controlling Yagura. Not Obito. Kishi obviously changed his mind and was introducing retcons on the fly during the war arc. It makes sense for Madara to be the one to control a village from the shadows and red pill Kisame by showing him his face. I doubt Obito could give Kisame the “holy experience “ that Deidara and Oro got, looking at Itachi the first time.
Another such "branch" regarding Tobi that was interesting was how he would show his face to Kisame exclusively, not even showing it to Sasuke when he tried to convince him. Seeing Tobi's face did not only make Kisame trust him, but also was considered necessary for Kisame to trust him as "Tobi" when they worked inside the Akatsuki. This is interesting because Kisame shouldn't know who either Madara or Obito was, nor the vast majority of Uchiha for that matter. What the purpose of this was in the story at some point is impossible to know, but its fun to think about the possibilities that could've been.

For example this "branch" could have been an idea that Tobi was suppose to not be "one person" but rather multiple identities at some point. That Tobi either was a bunch of different people or that he hid his face through Ninjutsu or Genjutsu to gain the trust of other people, using the mask as a way to entirely hide his identity when such a technique wasn't in use. This idea is seen with Pain and later on with Madara when he states that whomever works towards the "Red Eye Moon Plan" would hereby be "Madara".

Another example could be that at some point the idea was to not have Tobi be an Uchiha at all, but rather someone from the Hidden Mist who were naturally gifted in using the abilities of others much like we see Shin Uchiha be capable of later on in the series. Which would explain why Kisame would trust him in the first place. Kisame remains the only Akatuski member who was recruited not because he was forced or had a personal reason to do so, but because Obito simply asked him and showed him his face. Nagato and Konan were tricked into it and sought to gain something for themselves, Deidara was forced in and so on.
 

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I say we vote to make the man Kisame saw controlling Yagura, Madara. Kisame killed himself rather than betray the man he swore allegiance to. The idea that he saw Obito's face and was red pilled on reality and the universe, is absurd.
 
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Lukecetion

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I say we vote to make the man Kisame saw controlling Yagura, Madara. Kisame killed himself rather than betray the man he swore allegiance to. The idea that he saw Obito's face and was red pilled on reality and the universe, is absurd.
Well, we can also say that it was Obito who were using Genjutsu to manipulate Kisame into seeing whomever he wanted to see. It would add to Obito's already substantial fall from grace. That is a whole lot more logical than Obito's power making people think he was Madara based on that alone. I mean Itachi concluded that he had to be Madara based on nothing but his skill and prowess.
 
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Rikudou Tobi

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Base of operation. Like they said in the summit, Akatsuki was rumored to be born in the mist village.
What better way to grow your S class organization in an unstable country that’s full of political controversies?

Obito may of been spiteful towards the mist village because of what they did to Rin, but he was also always methodical any time it came to carrying out his plans.
 
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Lukecetion

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Base of operation. Like they said in the summit, Akatsuki was rumored to be born in the mist village.
What better way to grow your S class organization in an unstable country that’s full of political controversies?

Obito may of been spiteful towards the mist village because of what they did to Rin, but he was also always methodical any time it came to carrying out his plans.
Though we know for a fact that both incarnations of the Akatsuki, both the one founded by Yahiko and the one founded by Obito were born and originated from the Hidden Rain. The Akatsuki also only had one (canon) member from the Hidden Mist that we know of, that being Kisame and he joined after Itachi joined. The rumor (and it was a rumor) that the Hidden Mist was the birthplace of the Akatsuki was likely created out of spite and distrust towards the village because of its dark history.
 

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Though we know for a fact that both incarnations of the Akatsuki, both the one founded by Yahiko and the one founded by Obito were born and originated from the Hidden Rain. The Akatsuki also only had one (canon) member from the Hidden Mist that we know of, that being Kisame and he joined after Itachi joined. The rumor (and it was a rumor) that the Hidden Mist was the birthplace of the Akatsuki was likely created out of spite and distrust towards the village because of its dark history.
You’re talking about two completely different types of Akatsuki organization here.
The one that the kages were talking about here including myself is the S rank criminal organization, not the open heart charity group that didn’t last more than 5 panels.

So the akatsuki that was created or rumored to be is in the hidden mist not because of a single member that joined the organization because of meaning but for the sole fact that the leader of that organization is literally controlling the hidden mist village.
 

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You’re talking about two completely different types of Akatsuki organization here.
The one that the kages were talking about here including myself is the S rank criminal organization, not the open heart charity group that didn’t last more than 5 panels.

So the akatsuki that was created or rumored to be is in the hidden mist not because of a single member that joined the organization because of meaning but for the sole fact that the leader of that organization is literally controlling the hidden mist village.
I struggle to see how this is remotely relevant to what I said. I said:
  1. There were two Akatasuki that we know of, one that was created by Yahiko in the Hidden Rain, and one created by Obito in the Hidden Rain.
  2. The Akatsuki created by Obito had one member from the Hidden Mist that we know of.
  3. The rumors surrounding the birthplace of the last Akatsuki was that it was created and formed in the Hidden Mist.
  4. These rumors were likely born out of spite for the Hidden Mist and its history as the Blood Mist and not actual facts.
To further add to that, the rumors surrounding the Hidden Mist and it possibly being the birthplace of the last Akatsuki could just as well be a reason why Obito took control over it, to throw attention away from his actual goal, the Hidden Rain village.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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I struggle to see how this is remotely relevant to what I said. I said:
Well keep struggling because if you fail to see how this is remotely relevant then you have a long way to go besides this question.

  1. There were two Akatasuki that we know of, one that was created by Yahiko in the Hidden Rain, and one created by Obito in the Hidden Rain.
Completely irrelevant. The S organization group that everyone knows including the Kage is the criminal organization. As far as they are concerned, that’s the akatsuki that was created in the hidden mist, or at least rumored to be.
Second time repeating this already.
  1. The Akatsuki created by Obito had one member from the Hidden Mist that we know of.
Has nothing to do with how the organization started
  1. The rumors surrounding the birthplace of the last Akatsuki was that it was created and formed in the Hidden Mist.
Redundant. You’re just repeating what I said.
  1. These rumors were likely born out of spite for the Hidden Mist and its history as the Blood Mist and not actual facts.
  1. Wrong. The bloody mist was already born during Zabuza’s time as a kid which was way passed Akatsuki’s time.
To further add to that, the rumors surrounding the Hidden Mist and it possibly being the birthplace of the last Akatsuki could just as well be a reason why Obito took control over it, to throw attention away from his actual goal, the Hidden Rain village.
There is nothing further more. This is just headcanon, especially when the timeline doesn’t add up.
Post automatically merged:

Wasn't it the most disorganized country? Making it easier to take over.
Yes
 

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Well keep struggling because if you fail to see how this is remotely relevant then you have a long way to go besides this question.
I should've explained. I didn't see the point because all you did was to repeat what I said. Then you said I was wrong, even if all you did was repeat what I said. Which makes no logical sense and adds nothing to the conversation. I said (to sum them up):

The Akatsuki originated from the Hidden Rain in both instances. Though there was a rumor that it originated in the Hidden Mist as stated by the Kage. This rumor was likely born out of the bad reputation the Hidden Mist had and nobody trusted them, hence they were easy to blame for the Akatsuki as at that point in the meeting they were just throwing blame around.

Then you go ahead and say something like (to sum that up):

No. You're wrong, the Akatsuki that Obito controlled was formed in the Hidden Rain.

Completely irrelevant.
See, this doesn't make sense. You claim its irrelevant, yet you go on to talk about just this thing yourself. All I said was that both the Akatsuki Organizations started in the Hidden Rain. Which is relevant in a conversation titled; "Where did the Akatsuki originate from?".

Has nothing to do with how the organization started
You really need to understand what a summary is. I was summing up the information from my previous post that you outright disagreed with (for some reason).

Redundant. You’re just repeating what I said.
Which is why its a summary, if you want more context of a summary you go read where the summary is taken from.

Wrong. The bloody mist was already born during Zabuza’s time as a kid which was way passed Akatsuki’s time.
See, this is again both irrelevant information and a (borderline insanely) odd thing to say. I said that the reputation the Hidden Mist had among the Kage was born from the era they were called the Bloody Mist. I never gave a specific date, nor did I say they were referring to when Obito was in control. All I said was that; "Once upon a time the Hidden Mist was a called the Bloody Mist and the Kage today still hold that grudge against them."

That is neither wrong, inaccurate or relevant to Zabuza's era. Hence you made a pointless point just to sound correct while also (somehow) agreeing entirely with me. You have gone and told me I was wrong, only to explain how you are right by agreeing with me. It makes no sense and adds next to nothing to the conversation other than bringing in the rumor part.
 

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I should've explained. I didn't see the point because all you did was to repeat what I said. Then you said I was wrong, even if all you did was repeat what I said. Which makes no logical sense and adds nothing to the conversation. I said (to sum them up):

The Akatsuki originated from the Hidden Rain in both instances. Though there was a rumor that it originated in the Hidden Mist as stated by the Kage. This rumor was likely born out of the bad reputation the Hidden Mist had and nobody trusted them, hence they were easy to blame for the Akatsuki as at that point in the meeting they were just throwing blame around.

Then you go ahead and say something like (to sum that up):

No. You're wrong, the Akatsuki that Obito controlled was formed in the Hidden Rain.



See, this doesn't make sense. You claim its irrelevant, yet you go on to talk about just this thing yourself. All I said was that both the Akatsuki Organizations started in the Hidden Rain. Which is relevant in a conversation titled; "Where did the Akatsuki originate from?".



You really need to understand what a summary is. I was summing up the information from my previous post that you outright disagreed with (for some reason).



Which is why its a summary, if you want more context of a summary you go read where the summary is taken from.



See, this is again both irrelevant information and a (borderline insanely) odd thing to say. I said that the reputation the Hidden Mist had among the Kage was born from the era they were called the Bloody Mist. I never gave a specific date, nor did I say they were referring to when Obito was in control. All I said was that; "Once upon a time the Hidden Mist was a called the Bloody Mist and the Kage today still hold that grudge against them."

That is neither wrong, inaccurate or relevant to Zabuza's era. Hence you made a pointless point just to sound correct while also (somehow) agreeing entirely with me. You have gone and told me I was wrong, only to explain how you are right by agreeing with me. It makes no sense and adds next to nothing to the conversation other than bringing in the rumor part.
I notice that you just like to reply for the sake of argument because nothing you said is coherent at all.


I literally pointed out that the reason why the Gokages believed that the akatsuki started in the hidden mist was because of the political controversies (bloody mist). It also is their base of perstions because the leader of the hidden mist is an akatsuki leader. So a lot of their plans can be carried out there.
The S rank criminal organization started in the hidden mist. The former akatsuki that nobody knew about started in the hidden rain. Nobody was talking about that version of akatsuki to begin with and that’s why I said that you are talking about two completely different organizations.

Yet here you are arguing something that you have no idea on what we are all talking about.
 

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I literally pointed out that the reason why the Gokages believed that the akatsuki started in the hidden mist was because of the political controversies (bloody mist).
To be specific, what you said was the the Akatsuki used the Hidden Mist as their base of operation even though there isn't a shred of evidence to this claim. Furthermore it doesn't make much sense as we know that the Akatsuki as a group moved around and had no one given location as their home base. Hence why they referred to their meeting locations as "Hideouts" as in the plural form. They had several bases, not one and each member seemed to either prefer to travel or have a home location of their own.

Obito for example remained in the cave where he met Madara, where as Itachi retreated to the Uchiha Hideout. You didn't say they believed it was their based of organization because of rumors, you said that the Akatsuki grew their organization in the Hidden Mist which we also know to be false as they were a group that took on contracts from different villages such as the Hidden Stone.

It also is their base of perstions because the leader of the hidden mist is an akatsuki leader. So a lot of their plans can be carried out there.
As stated above, there isn't a shred of evidence that proves the Hidden Mist and Akatsuki in cahoots and that they used the Mist as their base. We do know that they had several bases and that Obito, Nagato, Itachi and other members had separate bases of their own.

The S rank criminal organization started in the hidden mist.
Now you're not only contradicting your own statement, but you are bluntly put inaccurate. We see the formation of the Akatsuki controlled by Obito and its formed in the Hidden Rain after Nagato agrees to join him. Hence the location of their formation is in the Hidden Rain, not Mist.

The former akatsuki that nobody knew about started in the hidden rain. Nobody was talking about that version of akatsuki to begin with and that’s why I said that you are talking about two completely different organizations. You earlier said that the Mist being the birthplace of the Akatsuki was nothing but a rumor, hence the contradiction as you are now claiming it as indisputable fact.


Summary
  • Despite your claims there is no evidence of Obito's Akatsuki originating in the Hidden Mist. It was just rumors.
  • We don't know when Obito took control over the Hidden Mist, hence we don't know if it was before or after he formed the Akatsuki with Nagato and Konan. Though we know that at the point of him controlling Yagura he no longer needed GuruGuru like he did when he formed the Akatsuki with Nagato and Konan.
  • The Akatsuki had different bases of operations referred to as "Hideouts" and often traveled to keep their locations, members and plans a secret.
 

Rikudou Tobi

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To be specific, what you said was the the Akatsuki used the Hidden Mist as their base of operation even though there isn't a shred of evidence to this claim. Furthermore it doesn't make much sense as we know that the Akatsuki as a group moved around and had no one given location as their home base. Hence why they referred to their meeting locations as "Hideouts" as in the plural form. They had several bases, not one and each member seemed to either prefer to travel or have a home location of their own.

Obito for example remained in the cave where he met Madara, where as Itachi retreated to the Uchiha Hideout. You didn't say they believed it was their based of organization because of rumors, you said that the Akatsuki grew their organization in the Hidden Mist which we also know to be false as they were a group that took on contracts from different villages such as the Hidden Stone.



As stated above, there isn't a shred of evidence that proves the Hidden Mist and Akatsuki in cahoots and that they used the Mist as their base. We do know that they had several bases and that Obito, Nagato, Itachi and other members had separate bases of their own.



Now you're not only contradicting your own statement, but you are bluntly put inaccurate. We see the formation of the Akatsuki controlled by Obito and its formed in the Hidden Rain after Nagato agrees to join him. Hence the location of their formation is in the Hidden Rain, not Mist.

The former akatsuki that nobody knew about started in the hidden rain. Nobody was talking about that version of akatsuki to begin with and that’s why I said that you are talking about two completely different organizations. You earlier said that the Mist being the birthplace of the Akatsuki was nothing but a rumor, hence the contradiction as you are now claiming it as indisputable fact.


Summary
  • Despite your claims there is no evidence of Obito's Akatsuki originating in the Hidden Mist. It was just rumors.
  • We don't know when Obito took control over the Hidden Mist, hence we don't know if it was before or after he formed the Akatsuki with Nagato and Konan. Though we know that at the point of him controlling Yagura he no longer needed GuruGuru like he did when he formed the Akatsuki with Nagato and Konan.
  • The Akatsuki had different bases of operations referred to as "Hideouts" and often traveled to keep their locations, members and plans a secret.
Once again arguing just for the sack of arguing. If they hide one hide out, does that mean the hidden mist is not their base of operation?
Think. Didn’t bother reading the rest.
 
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