Obito and Itachi: Analysis

[Lord Tywin]

It is dull, now more than ever, since I found the scan. He was out of chakra for literally 4-5 pages, and then in a single panel, he was back at it again. Your argument is completely invalid now. Thanks for the good debate.

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oh well.....

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This is explained by Naruto trying to exert more chakra out to use techniques, but not having enough chakra. It is also explained that his cloak is there for transportation, and not using technique at that moment. This actually supports my claim of Naruto not having enough chakra to use more techniques.

 

[Romy9]

This is explained by Naruto trying to exert more chakra out to use techniques, but not having enough chakra. It is also explained that his cloak is there for transportation, and not using technique at that moment. This actually supports my claim of Naruto not having enough chakra to use more techniques.

My interpretation would be that he can't make anymore clones because he already had dozens of them scattered around the field. Do I need to repeat the words "assumption" and "speculation" again? Also, making Rasengans isn't the same as making clones because Kurama doesn't suck his chakra out of a Rasengan. He doubles the sucking with each clone. That's the whole idea of these pages.

 

[Lord Tywin]

My interpretation would be that he can't make anymore clones because he already had dozens of them scattered around the field. Do I need to repeat the words "assumption" and "speculation" again? Also, making Rasengans isn't the same as making clones because Kurama doesn't suck his chakra out of a Rasengan. He doubles the sucking with each clone. That's the whole idea of these pages.

The quantity of clones doesn't matter. The usage of chakra does. Naruto's cloak vanished when he tried to make clones.

EDIT: The sentence I wrote was bullshit.

He had clones out, and tried to make more, but didn't have chakra for more as his cloak disappeared. Naruto had enough chakra for transportation, but not to use techniques.

 

[Romy9]

The quantity of clones doesn't matter. The usage of chakra does. Naruto's cloak vanished when he tried to make clones.

You're wrong, again.

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For every clone, Kurama sucks the same amount of chakra as from the original one. That's why he was out of chakra. He didn't have any more room for Kurama to suck the said amount. I think it's time you concede.

He had clones out, and tried to make more, but didn't have chakra for more as his cloak disappeared. Naruto had enough chakra for transportation, but not to use techniques.

Did he use any clones during the fight?

 

[Lord Tywin]

You're wrong, again.

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For every clone, Kurama sucks the same amount of chakra as from the original one. That's why he was out of chakra. He didn't have any more room for Kurama to suck the said amount. I think it's time you concede.

Yep, edited the part about quantity.
You're actually contributing to my point. Naruto hadn't enough chakra for more clones, indicating that he was already running low, backed by his cloak disappearing when he used more chakra to make more clones. He could use the cloak for transportation, because it uses minimal amount of chakra, unlike clones and rasengan.

 

[Romy9]

Yep, edited the part about quantity.
You're actually contributing to my point. Naruto hadn't enough chakra for more clones, indicating that he was already running low, backed by his cloak disappearing when he used more chakra to make more clones. He could use the cloak for transportation, because it uses minimal amount of chakra, unlike clones and rasengan.

I'm not contributing to your point. I'm destroying your point. He didn't make any clones during the fight, but he managed to create an FRS.

Which proves my interpretation that making another clone takes a large portion of his chakra because Kurama was sucking it away from each clone. He simply didn't have enough room of chakra for Kurama to dry, but he did have enough for an FRS and the basic continuation of the fight.

 

[Lord Tywin]

I'm not contributing to your point. I'm destroying your point. He didn't make any clones during the fight, but he managed to create an FRS.

Which proves my interpretation that making another clone takes a large portion of his chakra because Kurama was sucking it away from each clone. he simply didn't have enough room of chakra for Kurama to dry, but he did have enough for an FRS and the basic continuation of the fight,.

Because he wasn't at his lowest point. His lowest point came right after the fight.

Yes he had room for a technique or two, but not enough for his usual spam filled fights.

 

[Romy9]

Because he wasn't at his lowest point. His lowest point came right after the fight.

Yes he had room for a technique or two, but not enough for his usual spam filled fights.

But that doesn't matter. Itachi didn't fight him after he lost his cloak. He fought him before that happened. He wasn't at a disadvantage during the fight. He was at a disadvantage after the fight,. Which didn't matter because Itachi turned good.

He had, but the fight was directed by Itachi and the incompetence of Naruto and Bee. He simply couldn't spam them even if he wanted to because he was overwhelmed by the sheer power of Nagato.

 

[Demonic.]

Itachi close to neg diff.

Spoiler

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[Lord Tywin]

But that doesn't matter. Itachi didn't fight him after he lost his cloak. He fought him before that happened. He wasn't at a disadvantage during the fight. He was at a disadvantage after the fight,. Which didn't matter because Itachi turned good.

He had, but the fight was directed by Itachi and the incompetence of Naruto and Bee. He simply couldn't spam them even if he wanted to because he was overwhelmed by the sheer power of Nagato.

Yes it does matter. Him running low as influencing him in fighting because he knew he was going to completely run out soon. It prevented him from serious spam.

As you said, he was overwhelmed by Nagato. If had used more techniques than he already did while running out he would have actually died because of his cloak disappearing when he tried to make clones.

 

[Romy9]

Yes it does matter. Him running low as influencing him in fighting because he knew he was going to completely run out soon. It prevented him from serious spam.

As you said, he was overwhelmed by Nagato. If had used more techniques than he already did while running out he would have actually died because of his cloak disappearing when he tried to make clones.

No. His incompetence prevented him from fighting like his usual self. He was simply less able in the battle. He didn't even try to spam the Rasengans because he couldn't. He was too slow to react and Nagato was too fast. He had enough chakra and breath for fighting and FRS but not for a clone. My theory, which isn't even a theory but a fact, is what happened there. He didn't have any room for another clone because of the amount Kurama would suck out.

He was overwhelmed in overall ability, not the chakra usage. Lol Read the chapters again. He was clueless.

 

[Lord Tywin]

No. His incompetence prevented him from fighting like his usual self. He was simply less able in the battle. He didn't even try to spam the Rasengans because he couldn't. He was too slow to react and Nagato was too fast. He had enough chakra and breath for fighting and FRS but not for a clone. My theory, which isn't even a theory but a fact, is what happened there. He didn't have any room for another clone because of the amount Kurama would suck out.

He was overwhelmed in overall ability, not the chakra usage. Lol Read the chapters again. He was clueless.

Kurama would suck chakra if the clone is using his chakra. Naruto could have used normal clones, yet he didn't.

For the 1000th time, if Naruto had more of Kurama's chakra for purpose of using techniques, and not transportation, he wouldn't have run out when he tried to make clones. Now, this is fact.

 

[Romy9]

Kurama would suck chakra if the clone is using his chakra. Naruto could have used normal clones, yet he didn't.

For the 1000th time, if Naruto had more of Kurama's chakra for purpose of using techniques, and not transportation, he wouldn't have run out when he tried to make clones. Now, this is fact.

I'll explain again why you're wrong. Naruto managed to make 1000 clones and was able to train that way. He managed to make 2-3 FRSs after which he was spent.

Now, why do you think he only managed make dozen of clones in RM? Because Kurama sucks his chakra. If he made another clone at any point after he originally made a dozen clones, his mode would go off because his chakra capacity couldn't withstand another drainage from Kurama.

Remember the 1000 clones/2-3 FRS for scale? If the drainage wasn't the problem but the actual low run on chakra, he couldn't have made an FRS which is potentially worth 300-400 clones. He was simply fine during that fight.

He ran out because he Kurama was stealing his chakra. His capacity couldn't take it anymore. That's a fact.

While you're running in circles, I suggest you come up with new ways to prove your point, because you're getting boring and that argument got destroyed a page back. Thanks in advance.

 

[Lord Tywin]

I'll explain again why you're wrong. Naruto managed to make 1000 clones and was able to train that way. He managed to make 2-3 FRSs after which he was spent.

Now, why do you think he only managed make dozen of clones in RM? Because Kurama sucks his chakra. If he made another clone at any point after he originally made a dozen clones, his mode would go off because his chakra capacity couldn't withstand another drainage from Kurama.

Remember the 1000 clones/2-3 FRS for scale? If the drainage wasn't the problem but the actual low run on chakra, he couldn't have made an FRS which is potentially worth 300-400 clones. He was simply fine during that fight.

He ran out because he Kurama was stealing his chakra. His capacity couldn't take it anymore. That's a fact.

While you're running in circles, I suggest you come up with new ways to prove your point, because you're getting boring and that argument got destroyed a page back. Thanks in advance.

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Here Naruto makes a normal clone after the fight with Nagato. As you see, it's a normal clone. Kurama doesn't suck the chakra of
the clones that don't use his chakra.

And that's fine and dandy, but going back to the origin of this argument, how does that prove that Itachi was in more of a handicap than Naruto? Itachi was fresh, and before the fight was serious he got out of Kabuto's control via Koto. While Naruto had clones all over the battlefields that use Kurama's and his own chakra.

 

[Romy9]

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Here Naruto makes a normal clone after the fight with Nagato. As you see, it's a normal clone. Kurama doesn't suck the chakra of
the clones that don't use his chakra.

And that's fine and dandy, but going back to the origin of this argument, how does that prove that Itachi was in more of a handicap than Naruto? Itachi was fresh, and before the fight was serious he got out of Kabuto's control via Koto. While Naruto had clones all over the battlefields that use Kurama's and his own chakra.

He wasn't making them in RM. He got fatigued because of the imminent drainage that happened after he tried to make another clone in that mode back with Itachi.

He wasn't in more of a handicap. It's hard to calculate who had more of a handicap, but I'd say they both were. Itachi because of the control and Naruto because of the clones scattered. Yeah, he was fresh, but do you honestly believe someone can manipulate a body like a puppet better than the actual owner of the body? Besides, looking back at that fight, Naruto could've had all the chakra in the world, it would end up the same because he was clueless in that fight.

Be back in a couple of hours. We'll continue.

 

[Lord Tywin]

He wasn't making them in RM. He got fatigued because of the imminent drainage that happened after he tried to make another clone in that mode back with Itachi.

He wasn't in more of a handicap. It's hard to calculate who had more of a handicap, but I'd say they both were. Itachi because of the control and Naruto because of the clones scattered. Yeah, he was fresh, but do you honestly believe someone can manipulate a body like a puppet better than the actual owner of the body? Besides, looking back at that fight, Naruto could've had all the chakra in the world, it would end up the same because he was clueless in that fight.

Be back in a couple of hours. We'll continue.

He was trying to make the clones while he was in kcm after nagato fight

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Naruto still could have tried some long range techniques like FRS before jumping on Nagato.

 

[blah23]

I think something people are overlooking. Itachi has Shisui's eye. Itachi wins easily with it

 

[Romy9]

He was trying to make the clones while he was in kcm after nagato fight


Naruto still could have tried some long range techniques like FRS before jumping on Nagato.

Yes, that's what I said. He tried to make a clone in RM and that's precisely why he was left out of chakra. Because Kurama took the critical amount of chakra when he made that clone, as opposed to making a clone in a normal or SM where Kurama doesn't suck the chakra and where a clone requires 100~ time less chakra.

You're now talking about the logistics of the fight. Just because something didn't happen the way you like it, doesn't mean you can presume something and take it as a fact. For example, and I'm just throwing this to prove a point, Naruto didn't use Boil Release against Sasuke in the final fight with which he could've shattered Sasuke to pieces. Should I now presume he was out of chakra when he was able to throw two giant-ass FRS Bijuudamas and a few Rasengans after? Or why didn't he use the speed he used against Raikage? Why didn't Sasuke use Ameno more than once? Nah, man, it's just the fight how Kishimoto envisioned.

 

[Warmaker87]

Itach had years to study Obito and knew more about Sharingan and Akatsuki as the rest of Konoha i guess he would have figured out much faster as the others did. if he did face him in battle he would have the upper hand. Obitos strength was to keep his secrets. But it was not itachis role to fight him...his role was to protect konoha and furfill his duty as spy and die on sasukes hands to help uchiha to gain glory back throug him.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Yes, that's what I said. He tried to make a clone in RM and that's precisely why he was left out of chakra. Because Kurama took the critical amount of chakra when he made that clone, as opposed to making a clone in a normal or SM where Kurama doesn't suck the chakra and where a clone requires 100~ time less chakra.

You're now talking about the logistics of the fight. Just because something didn't happen the way you like it, doesn't mean you can presume something and take it as a fact. For example, and I'm just throwing this to prove a point, Naruto didn't use Boil Release against Sasuke in the final fight with which he could've shattered Sasuke to pieces. Should I now presume he was out of chakra when he was able to throw two giant-ass FRS Bijuudamas and a few Rasengans after? Or why didn't he use the speed he used against Raikage? Why didn't Sasuke use Ameno more than once? Nah, man, it's just the fight how Kishimoto envisioned.

that's exactly why Naruto was running low on chakra when he faced Nagato and Itachi.