Obama administration issues guidance on transgender access to school bathrooms

[Punk Hazard]

Stop being so racist

el oh el classic Phteven.

 

[Power Bottom]

Incredible how people blame everybody who disagrees with them to be homophobic or discriminatory.

Not everyone dose. But it plays apart

 

[wanderingcactus]

I got lost because you respond to everything as a giant block of text and you don't include what you're arguing against in the argument when you do so. Format your posts like I'm doing.


You do realize that beliefs shape laws all the time right? The first amendment is based on the belief that the government shouldn't impede on certain freedoms. The fact that women can abort is based on beliefs. Women's suffrage, the abolition of slavery, democracy are all based on beliefs.

You're operating on the notion that the government enforcing beliefs is universally, 100% always a bad thing, and it is not. If the government enforces this belief system, it doesn't harm, impede on, or force any changes of beliefs on those that don't have it, so it wouldn't be a negative enforcement.



WHAT. SPECIAL. TREATMENT?

Like another member said above, what do you think happens in a public bathroom? It's not a ****ing meet and greet, you don't even have to talk to or acknowledge anyone in the bathroom. No one is shoving any beliefs into your face by allowing a transgender to piss in a bathroom. Is the government shoving the beliefs of feminists in a sexist's face by allowing them to vote or work in the same office as them? Because that's how your logic sounds.



Why?

1. Nothing is given to the world from doing so

2. Nothing is taken from the world or from another person by doing so

3. You gain nothing from doing so


And what gives you the right to suppress someone else's happiness when the pursuit of it doesn't harm you and doesn't harm themselves? What's the point?

Human beings don't operate solely on FACTS. We aren't machines that just operate on stone cold date. It is a blend of objectivity and subjectivity that makes us human.

Yes, objectively, transsexual men and women are not, and may never be, biologically men and women. Objectively, you accomplish nothing by acting on that premise and denying them their desires, so what's the point in doing so? The only thing that is accomplished is making the life more difficult so you can maintain your beliefs.



*Sigh* This is why formatting is important.


No one says you have to accept it. Because quite frankly, it doesn't matter if you do or don't. Unless the thing you're against impacts your well-being, the quality of your life, or your life, then you have to simply deal with it.


Already explained why I said a particular part of your argument displays bigotry. Note that I didn't say you were a bigot, I said your argument displays bigotry because you CHOOSE to only apply it to one concept, and refuse to apply it to another concept that it applies to just as much. You are CHOOSING to enforce "biology" and "beliefs" arguments with transsexuals, but not with a concept like adoptive parents, which means a bias towards transsexuals simply because they are transsexuals.



Humans are capable of changing genders, as genders are social roles that are assigned to the biological ***.


That's exactly what you're doing by dismissing their *** identity on unjustified grounds.


Explained.


What?


Because it is an instance of you giving someone the "rights" of something they biologically are not. This refutes the notion that because someone isn't biologically something, we can never treat them as that thing.



You know hormone therapy causes actual, internal, biological changes, right? No of course you don't.

you need to improve in having discussions as you clearly set it to blatantly not trying to understand what I am trying to say.

as you just said, laws are based on beliefs. true. ethical ones. ones that actually have some logic.

however I really do not get why it is such a big deal to be recognized as what you identify yourself with.
big enough that government gets involved in such matters.

100% of the time it is evil when it is based on irrationality. What purpose does it serve ANYONE that they become recognized as such.

The argument has the significance of a potato's opinion on where it should be buried. meaning, nothing. It is a self serving purpose in which should not at all enforced on others who do not wish to believe it.

Hence the reference of the similarity of the nations who forces their population into believing the same religion.

While their desires is not harmful for them, it is harmful for others. It is based on deception. Please understand that.
What you are is what you are. Not what you identify yourself with.

"hormone can change your body" if you actually delve deeper than that and actually do research, you will recognize that while it does change some characteristics in your body, you would still have the same reproductive organs.

Another reference to "this and this specie, mostly the aquatic ones, can change genders to save their population"

You got a brain, use it. I don't care about your opinions when facts are all that matters.

Injection of hormones will only change so much but it wont change your ***.
Tell me, does solely injecting hormones reshape your body type?
Will it reshape a man's hip into a birthing hip?
Will the penis morph itself into a womb?

no that's why it is a surgical procedure.

It is interesting how far you are willing to take this farce. You are battling a losing battle.

It is a farce and nothing more. Only one side is benefiting, that's one downfall.
The fact that it is a lie means it must not backed by any governing power.

Do you understand what I am saying?

and also do not bring up any of those adoptive examples. It has already been established that it is not whether one should be treated like a human being.

I get what you are trying to imply. That just because they are not biological, does not mean you cannot treat them as your own children. That is not simply the case. I would still recognize them as people. but there's a mutual understanding that they see each other not as biologically related.

While the transgenders would have everyone recognize them as what they identify themselves as.

If you take those adopted families and they say that they are, technically they are not. And when you say that they are not, will they force you to recognize themselves as such? no. That's why "I exhibit bigotry"

You should know this by now that my arguments have never been denying them their rights.

My standpoint is that they are enforcing their beliefs into others. Why have you not said anything about religion being used the same way?

You seemed to fail to mention that.

You talk about women's suffrage and abolition of slavery. Those are logical. Those are ethical. Recognizing and playing along with their delusions is the same as converting into a different religion that you disagree with solely on the premise that the government told you to do so.

It is solely that man's BELIEFS that women were denied of rights. Also Europeans' BELIEFS that non-caucasians are created to serve the whites. Yet you fail to mention that. I may argue that you show signs of bigotry as you fail to comprehend that it was due to beliefs that such things ever happened.

Your arguments fall short. You basically only assess what you can defend and dismiss the ones you cannot - bias.
While I try to recognize what you are saying and am trying to see you eye to eye, you keep denying me of my only argument.
LOGIC is VERY IMPORTANT. Lying is counterproductive. Why is it that you see that using logic makes us into machines?
Remember, the height of every civilization is when everyone is logical. The lowest is when everything is done based on beliefs and instincts. Also machines are far more efficient than any human being (if programmed properly, I know the struggle of programming).
So why is it such a bad thing? (getting off tangent)

FACTS overrule beliefs mate. Does not matter what you believe or how you feel about it. Please understand that.
Hence my "good luck winning court cases with that"

"that" meaning using beliefs as a source of argument.

 

[CrimsonReaper]

Glory holes here they come!!!

 

[bubicus]

This might seem like a conspiracy theory right here but anyone else wonder if this whole bathroom thing is just a shiny object to distract people from real issues? I mean we had cops shooting people randomly, shortages, disasters and a bunch of other national and world emergencies in the news but as soon as this situation hit everyone immediately forgot about the more serious and pressing topics and are now only arguing about if a penis makes you a man or not. Just a thought.

 

[Lightbringer]

This might seem like a conspiracy theory right here but anyone else wonder if this whole bathroom thing is just a shiny object to distract people from real issues? I mean we had cops shooting people randomly, shortages, disasters and a bunch of other national and world emergencies in the news but as soon as this situation hit everyone immediately forgot about the more serious and pressing topics and are now only arguing about if a penis makes you a man or not. Just a thought.

It's not a conspiracy, it is a distraction.

[video=youtube;kRDqlu5hTGg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRDqlu5hTGg[/video]

 

[ComplexCity]

Re: Transgender Restroom

What are you, some kind of pervert?

Because that's not the *** you identify as.

Was entertained with this thread until I ran into this. Was waiting for you to answer this question

Riker, you're trolling. If everyone is safe regardless of *** or even orientation, why must I be deemed a pervert for my gender of all things, what difference does clothing make at all? If *** and orientation mean nothing then why should gender? And what of those who don't associate with a certain *** and are gender fluid? Why can't I just want to use them in the case the men's toilets are too f*cked up which is often the case? Stop being a hypocrite man, all I want to do is my business.

If I missed it, please be so kind to link me to your answer

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Transgender Restroom

Was entertained with this thread until I ran into this. Was waiting for you to answer this question







If I missed it, please be so kind to link me to your answer

[video=youtube;08rVNqKhjA0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rVNqKhjA0[/video]

Riker, you're trolling. If everyone is safe regardless of *** or even orientation, why must I be deemed a pervert for my gender of all things, what difference does clothing make at all?

Yes, my comment calling you a pervert was indeed a joke, glad you were able to catch that.

If *** and orientation mean nothing then why should gender? And what of those who don't associate with a certain *** and are gender fluid? Why can't I just want to use them in the case the men's toilets are too f*cked up which is often the case? Stop being a hypocrite man, all I want to do is my business.

I never said *** and orientation mean nothing. I also never said I personally had an issue with unisex bathrooms. Your question to me was why can't you, as a man, just walk into the women's bathroom and I gave you the answer that you can't do so: It's not the *** you identify as.

It is fully plausible for there to be bathrooms that men and women occupy at the same time under the premise that people keep to themselves. I have nothing against something like this being implemented, but I'm well aware that, in practice, it wouldn't work well right off the bat, and isn't accepted currently. The latter is what my answer to you meant.

 

[Narushima]

Probably the best article written on this issue:

You must be registered for see links

"It was an epochal moment for the military and perhaps for all of society. Screwing up her courage, Air Force First Lieutenant Kara-Ann McBee walked into her commander’s office on the D-Ring of the Pentagon and announced that she was a giant squid.

Kara was slender and tomboyish, with an upturned nose, freckles, and an attractive brush-cut hairdo. She could have been Tom Sawyer’s sister. She did not appear to be a giant squid.

“But I am, sir,” she said, rigidly at attention and clearly nervous. “I’ve known it since I was a little girl. I…sir, I am a squid trapped in a woman’s body. I’m trans-phylum, sir.”

The commander, Colonel R. Boyd Gittim, was stunned. He was a compact, graying man in his mid-fifties, a combat flier who had slipped through the screening process to high position in what insiders called the Five-Sided Wind Tunnel. He was not well suited to the complex personnel issues of the modern military.

He had to say something. What, he wondered?

“Squids have lots of arms. Ten, I think.”

“Yessir, ten. But…you see, sir, I feel their presence. Like ectoplasm or something.”

Colonel Gittim sighed. He knew of course about LGBT, which he thought of as Lettuce, Bacon, and Tomato, and he knew there existed crucial military questions about whether boys could use the girls room. Squids were too much.

It wasn’t his Air Force any longer, he thought grayly. Wars were fought by remotely-controlled drones now, and the best pilots were probably fifteen-year-old gamers with no social life. They could do it from home by internet. He decided to retire and drink himself to death.

But consequences were to follow this modest beginning. Kara-Ann, not particularly militant, said that just wanted to be respected as a cephalopod, although she did say that she thought the Air Force ought to provide her an aquarium to sleep in. But, inevitably, the affair came to the attention of DACOWITS. This was not a Polish mathematician, but the Defense Advisory Commission on Women in the Services. They were Boadiceas of social justice, fighting against the oppression, brutality, contempt and unremitting assault to which women were subjected everywhere, except anywhere that anyone could find.

Dacowits needed something to do. Things were slow in the trenches of discrimination. Most victories had been won. A woman commanded the SEALs, who had been disarmed to prevent violence. The new main battle tanks had changing tables, and urinals had been outlawed throughout the services or converted to flower pots to preclude uncomfortable spaces. The warriors of social justice needed a Cause.

Virtual squids were just the thing.

But what to demand? There was no point in having a Cause if you couldn’t demand something outrageous and get coverage in the Washington Post. Perhaps, they decided, they could insist that Kara-Ann should have uniforms with ten sleeves. After intense conferencing, they came up with “imputed tentacles.” After all, phylum was a social construct, and if Kara-Ann could be a squid without looking like one, then she could have tentacles without having any.

When an unwise major tweeted that the idea was “silly as hell and I don’t want to serve with any goddam octopus,” he was demoted. Wilhelmina Mikoyan-Gurevich, chairwoman of Dacowits, exploded. Who were men to decide how many arms a woman had? Did men know what it was to be pregnant? Women knew their own bodies. If they thought they had tentacles, then they did have them.

A few within Dacowits thought this was over the top, even in pursuit of social justice. Maybe something simpler would do. Could they demand special diets for virtual squids? They weren’t sure what squids ate. Something unpleasant, no doubt.

Restaurants and chow halls throughout the military were forbidden to serve calamai when Kara-Ann broke down in hysterical crying and said it was just too…too horrible, and requested counseling. Trans-phylum bathrooms were a slam-dunk, but what exactly would such a loo need? How did squids…you know…do it? A commission was formed to study the question.

Things became complicated as more servicepersons discovered their inner zoology. Two giraffes, a kudu, and a Brahma bull came out of the closet, the last requesting a feeding trough in the mess hall. The kudu, a goggle-eyed computer nerd from Defense Intelligence named Howie Osfeiser, said he wasn’t sure what a kudu was, but he figured he probably was one. He just knew it.

An unenlightened Marine general said “the whole business is crazier than three monkeys in a bag. What is this freak show coming to?” The Washington Post ran an editorial comparing him to Hitler and saying that his attitude would lead to a second Holocaust. Of course, the Post thought that everything would lead to a second Holocaust.

The State Department announced that it would fun a recruitment drive to find trans-phylum ambassadors, and would modify embassies correspondingly, for example by increasing headroom for imputed giraffes.

In his last days in office, President Obama ordered that all federal buildings be equipped with litter boxes, saying, “A country as great as America was–is–that all the world wants to be like, and wishes it was, cannot seem to penalize citizens who think they are animals, even if they aren’t–though of course they are. Who are we to decide what kind of animals other people are? Praise Allah.”

This clarion call to probity and fairness echoed around the world and was adjudged to embody the clarity and internal coherence characteristic of Obama’s speeches.

A veritable storm of justice had left its imprint in the Pentagon. Calm gradually returned. Glitches continued, but they were minor. The Army’s Chief of Staff, Priscilla-Robert McFarley, came out of the closet as a Bolivian anteater and was discovered to be having termites flown in from La Paz. The computer nerd who had declared himself a kudu figured out that if he discovered himself to be a three-toed sloth instead, the Army would have to give him more time to sleep.

The furor finally died down and the nation entered a time of healing. The matter of inter-phylum dating caused a brief flurry, but abated when it was pointed out that the practice was common in the sheep country of Scotland. And of course national attention was diverted when an Armyperson who gender-identified as usually or somewhat male was caught trying to have *** with a vacuum cleaner. Phylum-neutral bathrooms were hastily equipped with chutes for emptying dust bags and…."

 

[ComplexCity]

Re: Transgender Restroom

[video=youtube;08rVNqKhjA0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rVNqKhjA0[/video]


Yes, my comment calling you a pervert was indeed a joke, glad you were able to catch that.



I never said *** and orientation mean nothing. I also never said I personally had an issue with unisex bathrooms. Your question to me was why can't you, as a man, just walk into the women's bathroom and I gave you the answer that you can't do so: It's not the *** you identify as.

It is fully plausible for there to be bathrooms that men and women occupy at the same time under the premise that people keep to themselves. I have nothing against something like this being implemented, but I'm well aware that, in practice, it wouldn't work well right off the bat, and isn't accepted currently. The latter is what my answer to you meant.

I have a freedom of speech per my amendment rights or should I tell churches to ban gay marriages?

If you believe in your latter statement then what would prevent it from working if people are just merely going in to do their "potty business?"

I also believe you stated why should the gender of the trans matter when they are just going in there to do their business.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Transgender Restroom

If you believe in your latter statement then what would prevent it from working if people are just merely going in to do their "potty business?"

I also believe you stated why should the gender of the trans matter when they are just going in there to do their business.

People's reactions would prevent it. Just like transsexuals using the bathroom of the *** they identify as opposed to their biological ***, unisex bathrooms, in my opinion, are fine in theory.

 

[ComplexCity]

Re: Transgender Restroom

People's reactions would prevent it. Just like transsexuals using the bathroom of the *** they identify as opposed to their biological ***, unisex bathrooms, in my opinion, are fine in theory.

So you don't feel privacy should separated between genders?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Transgender Restroom

So you don't feel privacy should separated between genders?

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You must be registered for see images

 

[ComplexCity]

Re: Transgender Restroom

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

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Obviously not what I meant as this put into the same gendered bathrooms glad to know it flew over your head though. Again, this would be hypocritical seeing as if Gender is irrelevant, I should be able to walk into a female bathroom without problem and vice versa

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Transgender Restroom

Obviously not what I meant as this put into the same gendered bathrooms glad to know it flew over your head though. Again, this would be hypocritical seeing as if Gender is irrelevant, I should be able to walk into a female bathroom without problem and vice versa

Did I say you shouldn't be able to, or that you wouldn't/couldn't be able to?

 

[ComplexCity]

Re: Transgender Restroom

Did I say you shouldn't be able to, or that you wouldn't/couldn't be able to?

Never said you did but evidently bathrooms have been arranged this way for a reason. The logic that "people's reactions" would prevent me from entering a woman's bathroom is a piss poor argument evident by the fact that the same thing is being done for this subject yet it's still being passed. Your whole argument is that people can use the same bathroom as long as they keep to themselves and realistically you believe that this would happen right?

 

[ComplexCity]

Re: Transgender Restroom

There's a difference... you're a male and you have a penis, so you obviously have to go into the male bathroom. Transgenders are people who, for example, have a penis but claim to be a woman, or a woman who claims to be a man, but are too poor to have their *** changed so they technically still remain their biological ***. I mean, this is a brand new gender that deserves its own new bathroom for these people until they get the cash to change the stash.

Riker stated gender/*** is irrelevant (in his view) and that is the main point of why trans should be able use the bathroom they identify with. So I'll ask you the same thing, if I am just going in to do my business and not harass women, why can't I use the woman's restroom when chances are they won't see my penis?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Transgender Restroom

Never said you did but evidently bathrooms have been arranged this way for a reason. The logic that "people's reactions" would prevent me from entering a woman's bathroom is a piss poor argument evident by the fact that the same thing is being done for this subject yet it's still being passed. Your whole argument is that people can use the same bathroom as long as they keep to themselves and realistically you believe that this would happen right?

Yes, people's reactions would prevent that. Just like people's reactions are currently preventing transsexuals from using the bathrooms they identify as rather than the one they biologically are. That's kind of why this entire issue is happening.

SHOULD that prevent it from happening? Arguably, no. WOULD that prevent it from happening, however, is a different story.

There is less likelihood of the abrasive reaction for transsexuals because transsexuals who have transitioned have the appearance that fits the population of the bathroom. A good, fully transitioned transsexual man wouldn't stand out among men as much as a woman who does nothing to change her appearance as a woman.

I believe that, PRACTICALLY, it COULD happen. What this thread is arguing is, SHOULD it happen. WOULD it happen is a completely different conversation.

 

[ComplexCity]

Re: Transgender Restroom

Yes, people's reactions would prevent that. Just like people's reactions are currently preventing transsexuals from using the bathrooms they identify as rather than the one they biologically are. That's kind of why this entire issue is happening.

SHOULD that prevent it from happening? Arguably, no. WOULD that prevent it from happening, however, is a different story.

Reactions aren't doing a thing because the bill is being passed in the OP and stores like Target are adopting a similar policy in their stores despite the reactions. It's only a matter of time before it becomes standard. Are we even talking about the same thing?


And you haven't answered my question

 

[Punk Hazard]

Re: Transgender Restroom

Reactions aren't doing a thing because the bill is being passed in the OP and stores like Target are adopting a similar policy in their stores despite the reactions. It's only a matter of time before it becomes standard. Are we even talking about the same thing?


And you haven't answered my question

Check the edited post. I explained why the bill is being passed. Negative reaction would be stronger in bathrooms that blatantly blend male and female populations because the differences would stand out more than transsexual men using the male's bathroom and transsexual women using the female's bathroom. Because a proper transition would make many transsexuals nearly unidentifiable, you wouldn't notice a transsexual in your bathroom as quickly as you would a woman who dresses and carries herself like a woman.



The issue of unisex bathrooms also hasn't been as prominent as the transsexual bathroom issue.

Riker stated gender/*** is irrelevant (in his view)

When?